Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Crysten]

I'm taking this to mean you think Gugnir is bad compared to the empyrean polearm. Well guess what, Gugnir is vastly superior to the empyrean polearm, because no matter which you have, you'll be using Drakesbane. And in so doing Gugnir still gets its hidden extra damage effect, higher base damage, and ACC that is probably useless, while the empyrean polearm gets... VIT? Lower base damage? .........Where'd the awesomeness of this weapon go?

Nono, I totally agree with you. I speak only based on Empyrean WS vs Relic WS, as the OP is pretty much focused on. Gierskogul could totally use a bit of a boost vs. Camlann's Torment (lolAGI mods and all that), but in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't even matter since any DRG with half a brain is gonna be using Drakesbane anyway.

But hey, let's keep on bitching just because Gierskogul sucks. As I mentioned in my previous posts, relics need to be looked at from the bigger picture.

Spharai's +counter can make it more useful then Vere when tanking, and from what I hear, the new H2H WS might be on par with Vsmite so this weapon is just looking better and better.

With how the devs are clawing away at the new WS, I'd reserve judgement on that, personally until we;re absolutely sure that isn't getting nerfed either, heh. Totally agree all the same, though. Spharai offers the tanking utility and paired with Shijin (which was pretty damn consistant from my pratting about on the test server) it has the potential to be a great contender vs. Vere's sheer DD output from a utility point of view.

Again, people'll keep bitching just because Final Heaven isn't useful, though.

Yoichi's no enmity effect can easily make it more useful then Gandiva for some fights where the RNG doesn't want to make the mob move. (not that RNG is ever all that useful)

Here I'm in the dark a bit, since the only guy I know with a Yoichi is a tight ass and, for some reason, uses Scorpion and Demon arrows with it (yes, I don't know what's going on in his head, either.) As such, I've never seen a fully capable Namas. Of course, the enmity surpression isn't going to get you murdered and that can only be a good thing in the right hands.

Kikoku is the only one you listed here that doesn't hold a candle to it's empyrean counterpart, unless the change to Shun makes it good. But hey, apparently the +attack on Kikoku will carry over if you offhand it now, so it's gonna be the best off-hand katana if nothing else. =3

When did they remove the off hand penalty? Not gonna hold my breath on Kikoku but yeah, that's the only one that gets a kick in the nuts compared to Empyreans at the moment anyway.

[Kitkat]

Offhand penalty is currently removed only on the test server. This only applies to the +att however. Add effects do not proc and neither does hidden, so in that sense there is still lock downs (one reasonable, other not so much since only one weapon has a strong add effect). As far as main server it still stands as only a dmg/delay weapon with no other visible stats working in off hand.

[Unleashhell]

I believe you are sorely mistaken about your beliefs that empyrean and mythic weapons and weapon skills are better then relic weapon skills. Some empyreans are good, some mythics are good, and some relics are good. Stop crying for one thing to be the best across the board. If you're going to make this arguement, then it should be for mythics to be the best, since they are much much harder to acquire then any relic or empyrean.

First off nobody is crying, you need learn to read my OP and every other post I made. I never said relic weapon skills need to be the best. I said they need to be more on par with the counterparts. You live in a fantasy world if you think they are. Do you own a relic by chance? As stated in my OP, I'm looking for people WITH relics to reply, not people chiming in because they don't want their Emp weapons to be overshadowed at 99.

[Crysten]

First off nobody is crying, you need learn to read my OP and every other post I made. I never said relic weapon skills need to be the best. I said they need to be more on par with the counterparts. You live in a fantasy world if you think they are. Do you own a relic by chance? As stated in my OP, I'm looking for people WITH relics to reply, not people chiming in because they don't want their Emp weapons to be overshadowed at 99.

Because a topic filled with the opinions of relic holders isn't going to be biased over one with input from everyone. Gotcha.

[Unleashhell]

Because a topic filled with the opinions of relic holders isn't going to be biased over one with input from everyone. Gotcha.

And your also included in my previous post. There is nothing wrong with what I asked in my OP that relic holders give feedback on their relic weapon. The OP was not a tit for tat on what weapon is easier to make like all the people pushing it off topic. Its about people who have relics that can give good solid feedback is not asking for alot. The OP is not asking to be overpowered, its not asking to be "the best", its not asking to find out which is easier to make. Its about solid information of adjustments that would improve relic weaponskills as a whole. But as usual you and others just chime in going off topic. Read the OP and compare WS to WS and nothing else.

I don't care which is easier to make, its irrelevant. You guys can fight all day about that on some other post. If you would like I'll take the time out to start one so you all can do argue about it someplace other then here.

[Greatguardian]

Working off the assumption that Relic players understand their weapons more than others is just going to get you into trouble.

Out of all 3 weapon types, Relics were always by far the most prone to "Any moron with a fish bot or a shell full of retard AF slaves can get one" syndrome. There are definitely solid Relic holders, but they're hardly an indicator of knowledge, even about Relic WS/weapons themselves. Trying to blow smoke about "Only relic holders responding" just antagonizes people who would otherwise be able to offer more constructive input on the topic.

And, of course, there's the obligatory "90% of Relic owners are bloody retarded". It's true. Don't even try to deny it. The 10% that isn't would benefit far more from input from non-retarded players without relics than the other 90% of retarded players with them.

[Unleashhell]

Working off the assumption that Relic players understand their weapons more than others is just going to get you into trouble.

Out of all 3 weapon types, Relics were always by far the most prone to "Any moron with a fish bot or a shell full of retard AF slaves can get one" syndrome. There are definitely solid Relic holders, but they're hardly an indicator of knowledge, even about Relic WS/weapons themselves. Trying to blow smoke about "Only relic holders responding" just antagonizes people who would otherwise be able to offer more constructive input on the topic.

And, of course, the obligatory "90% of Relic owners are bloody retarded". It's true. Don't even try to deny it. The 10% that isn't would benefit far more from input from non-retarded players without relics than the other 90% of retarded players with them.

Which the same can be said about the Emp holders. This is a debate that can go on all day. I'm just trying to stay on my topic. As always I like your no BS fair replies to any topic on these forums.

[Greatguardian]

Which the same can be said about the Emp holders. This is a debate that can go on all day.

Who's comparing the two? Not me. When I look at Emp WS, do I say "Emp holders Only, prz!"? Nah. It's not a debate. It's a statement of fact. I know more about Relics than 90%+ of Relic holders and I'd laugh hysterically at the suggestion of making one for myself. I'm not that dumb. They are absolutely not worth my time - never have been, and never will.

Honestly, Relics are pretty awesome weapons in their own right, they could have been fine if the Merit WS didn't suck donkey tits. Spharai is in the best place it's ever been right now, since Shijin Spiral pulls ahead of Verethragna if and only if you have a Relic. Some Relics are still in great shape. Others? Not so much. There's only so much that can be thrown around on topic, though. Relic WS and Aftermaths are actually fairly unimportant. The important thing is that they can keep up with Empyreans offensively, independent of what WS they use. Relic ODD/OTD not being tied to a WS gives them this freedom.

Screw Relic WS, I'd say. As long as there's a WS worth using with a Relic that brings it up to Emp level, they'd be alright. Mythic is just going to be uberbroken forever though.

[Crysten]

And your also included in my previous post. There is nothing wrong with what I asked in my OP that relic holders give feedback on their relic weapon. The OP was not a tit for tat on what weapon is easier to make like all the people pushing it off topic. Its about people who have relics that can give good solid feedback is not asking for alot. The OP is not asking to be overpowered, its not asking to be "the best", its not asking to find out which is easier to make. Its about solid information of adjustments that would improve relic weaponskills as a whole. But as usual you and others just chime in going off topic. Read the OP and compare WS to WS and nothing else.

I don't care which is easier to make, its irrelevant. You guys can fight all day about that on some other post. If you would like I'll take the time out to start one so you all can do argue about it someplace other then here.

You've not read my last few posts in this topic well at all, have you? I've made my points clear enough that some weapons need buffing, some don't. The only rebuttals I've seen are "lol, you're wrong, my relic is shit" with nothing but a "trust me, I have a relic!" as a supporting argument.

I've already said this enough; WS to WS comparisons and nothing else are a hugely flawed, biased comparison between both sets of weapons. As an example, you're telling me, with a straight face, that a Bravura WAR pulling out 3-5k Metatron Torments with capped Haste, full PDT and a 10-20% Occassionally 2.5x damage proc isn't completely friggin' broken given the amount of time it takes to make one compared to an Ukon?

Why does anyone even care about Relic WS strength if you have an alternative that puts out better damage anyway?

[Insaniac]

Why would someone care if the weaponskill on the weapon they spent 130mil worth of currency on is garbage when they can just use Raging Rush like every other joker with an AH axe? Did you really just ask that?