Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Greatguardian]

In before Macross claims he "knows a guy who sells it cheap to him."

This actually isn't that uncommon, even on our server. I sell HMPs cheap to a few friends of mine.

[newmonkey]

5-7 k dyna currency you say Macross lol maybe we should all invade your server because on quetz and valefor i wish it was that cheap lol.

[Chriscoffey]

5-7 k dyna currency you say Macross lol maybe we should all invade your server because on quetz and valefor i wish it was that cheap lol.

I have yet to see it be that on carbuncle for an average cost. I have saw that for a few singles when running across people but not something where you are buying 100's in that amount range on average. I might need to consider getting some myself if it is that cheap there.

While this is true, why don't you notice that we're level 95 right now, and it's much harder to get any empyrean to 95 then any relic?

No, it is about the same considering you can spam VW as much as your little heart desires. It just requires you buy plates or get lucky getting them yourself. I am almost positive they cave into the emo about the plates and make them drop more with new VW or something later. People are just hoarding up the items like they did when relics first came out so there isn't as many to go around.

I don't think it is hard to get relic or empyrean either to 95. Mythics are not really hard just more time than most will devote to "casual playing", however, I am doing one because I was doing TOAU long before abyssea came out with the quest.

[wish12oz]

I believe this will help equal relic weapon skills to closer to the empyrean / mythic counterparts.

Please stay on topic thanks.

I believe you are sorely mistaken about your beliefs that empyrean and mythic weapons and weapon skills are better then relic weapon skills. Some empyreans are good, some mythics are good, and some relics are good. Stop crying for one thing to be the best across the board. If you're going to make this arguement, then it should be for mythics to be the best, since they are much much harder to acquire then any relic or empyrean.

Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

The people who are afraid to reveal who they are because they're wrong spew such great knowledge don't they?
PROTIP: Mandau is superior to Twastar all the time.

No.

10,000 * 17,900 = 179,000,000

Also: Dynamis currency is 8-9k and dropping on Odin. And relics don't all require 179k to make.
EDIT: In fact, I don't think any of them require 179k to make.

New Edit:

The overall time and effort required for a 75 Relic surpasses a that of an 85 Empyrean.

While this is true, why don't you notice that we're level 95 right now, and it's much harder to get any empyrean to 95 then any relic?

New new edit:

This. The consensus here, from my point of view, is "Relics currently suck simply because their WS is bad." This is obviously the case with a fair few weapons - Gungnir, Spharai, Kikoku and...maybe Yoichi all fit in this category.

I'm taking this to mean you think Gugnir is bad compared to the empyrean polearm. Well guess what, Gugnir is vastly superior to the empyrean polearm, because no matter which you have, you'll be using Drakesbane. And in so doing Gugnir still gets its hidden extra damage effect, higher base damage, and ACC that is probably useless, while the empyrean polearm gets... VIT? Lower base damage? .........Where'd the awesomeness of this weapon go?

Spharai's +counter can make it more useful then Vere when tanking, and from what I hear, the new H2H WS might be on par with Vsmite so this weapon is just looking better and better.

Yoichi's no enmity effect can easily make it more useful then Gandiva for some fights where the RNG doesn't want to make the mob move. (not that RNG is ever all that useful)

Kikoku is the only one you listed here that doesn't hold a candle to it's empyrean counterpart, unless the change to Shun makes it good. But hey, apparently the +attack on Kikoku will carry over if you offhand it now, so it's gonna be the best off-hand katana if nothing else. =3

[Insaniac]

PROTIP: Mandau is superior to Twastar all the time.

Not really. Mandau and Twashtar are probably the most well balanced emp and relic counterparts. Twashtar is better than Mandau in about as many situations as Mandau is better than Twashtar which is how it should be for all emps/relic/mythics. None of them should really outshine the other by a mile in any situation but it would be fine for them to have places that they shine ever so slightly. As it is there are some places where relics are pretty close or slightly better than emps but there are also places where those same emps make their relic counterparts look like AH weapons. There are obvious exceptions like Farsha and Redemption.

[Crysten]

I'm taking this to mean you think Gugnir is bad compared to the empyrean polearm. Well guess what, Gugnir is vastly superior to the empyrean polearm, because no matter which you have, you'll be using Drakesbane. And in so doing Gugnir still gets its hidden extra damage effect, higher base damage, and ACC that is probably useless, while the empyrean polearm gets... VIT? Lower base damage? .........Where'd the awesomeness of this weapon go?

Nono, I totally agree with you. I speak only based on Empyrean WS vs Relic WS, as the OP is pretty much focused on. Gierskogul could totally use a bit of a boost vs. Camlann's Torment (lolAGI mods and all that), but in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't even matter since any DRG with half a brain is gonna be using Drakesbane anyway.

But hey, let's keep on bitching just because Gierskogul sucks. As I mentioned in my previous posts, relics need to be looked at from the bigger picture.

Spharai's +counter can make it more useful then Vere when tanking, and from what I hear, the new H2H WS might be on par with Vsmite so this weapon is just looking better and better.

With how the devs are clawing away at the new WS, I'd reserve judgement on that, personally until we;re absolutely sure that isn't getting nerfed either, heh. Totally agree all the same, though. Spharai offers the tanking utility and paired with Shijin (which was pretty damn consistant from my pratting about on the test server) it has the potential to be a great contender vs. Vere's sheer DD output from a utility point of view.

Again, people'll keep bitching just because Final Heaven isn't useful, though.

Yoichi's no enmity effect can easily make it more useful then Gandiva for some fights where the RNG doesn't want to make the mob move. (not that RNG is ever all that useful)

Here I'm in the dark a bit, since the only guy I know with a Yoichi is a tight ass and, for some reason, uses Scorpion and Demon arrows with it (yes, I don't know what's going on in his head, either.) As such, I've never seen a fully capable Namas. Of course, the enmity surpression isn't going to get you murdered and that can only be a good thing in the right hands.

Kikoku is the only one you listed here that doesn't hold a candle to it's empyrean counterpart, unless the change to Shun makes it good. But hey, apparently the +attack on Kikoku will carry over if you offhand it now, so it's gonna be the best off-hand katana if nothing else. =3

When did they remove the off hand penalty? Not gonna hold my breath on Kikoku but yeah, that's the only one that gets a kick in the nuts compared to Empyreans at the moment anyway.

[Unleashhell]

I believe you are sorely mistaken about your beliefs that empyrean and mythic weapons and weapon skills are better then relic weapon skills. Some empyreans are good, some mythics are good, and some relics are good. Stop crying for one thing to be the best across the board. If you're going to make this arguement, then it should be for mythics to be the best, since they are much much harder to acquire then any relic or empyrean.

First off nobody is crying, you need learn to read my OP and every other post I made. I never said relic weapon skills need to be the best. I said they need to be more on par with the counterparts. You live in a fantasy world if you think they are. Do you own a relic by chance? As stated in my OP, I'm looking for people WITH relics to reply, not people chiming in because they don't want their Emp weapons to be overshadowed at 99.

[Crysten]

First off nobody is crying, you need learn to read my OP and every other post I made. I never said relic weapon skills need to be the best. I said they need to be more on par with the counterparts. You live in a fantasy world if you think they are. Do you own a relic by chance? As stated in my OP, I'm looking for people WITH relics to reply, not people chiming in because they don't want their Emp weapons to be overshadowed at 99.

Because a topic filled with the opinions of relic holders isn't going to be biased over one with input from everyone. Gotcha.

[Unleashhell]

Because a topic filled with the opinions of relic holders isn't going to be biased over one with input from everyone. Gotcha.

And your also included in my previous post. There is nothing wrong with what I asked in my OP that relic holders give feedback on their relic weapon. The OP was not a tit for tat on what weapon is easier to make like all the people pushing it off topic. Its about people who have relics that can give good solid feedback is not asking for alot. The OP is not asking to be overpowered, its not asking to be "the best", its not asking to find out which is easier to make. Its about solid information of adjustments that would improve relic weaponskills as a whole. But as usual you and others just chime in going off topic. Read the OP and compare WS to WS and nothing else.

I don't care which is easier to make, its irrelevant. You guys can fight all day about that on some other post. If you would like I'll take the time out to start one so you all can do argue about it someplace other then here.

[Crysten]

And your also included in my previous post. There is nothing wrong with what I asked in my OP that relic holders give feedback on their relic weapon. The OP was not a tit for tat on what weapon is easier to make like all the people pushing it off topic. Its about people who have relics that can give good solid feedback is not asking for alot. The OP is not asking to be overpowered, its not asking to be "the best", its not asking to find out which is easier to make. Its about solid information of adjustments that would improve relic weaponskills as a whole. But as usual you and others just chime in going off topic. Read the OP and compare WS to WS and nothing else.

I don't care which is easier to make, its irrelevant. You guys can fight all day about that on some other post. If you would like I'll take the time out to start one so you all can do argue about it someplace other then here.

You've not read my last few posts in this topic well at all, have you? I've made my points clear enough that some weapons need buffing, some don't. The only rebuttals I've seen are "lol, you're wrong, my relic is shit" with nothing but a "trust me, I have a relic!" as a supporting argument.

I've already said this enough; WS to WS comparisons and nothing else are a hugely flawed, biased comparison between both sets of weapons. As an example, you're telling me, with a straight face, that a Bravura WAR pulling out 3-5k Metatron Torments with capped Haste, full PDT and a 10-20% Occassionally 2.5x damage proc isn't completely friggin' broken given the amount of time it takes to make one compared to an Ukon?

Why does anyone even care about Relic WS strength if you have an alternative that puts out better damage anyway?