Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Crysten]

Are you guys actually parsing your damage, or are you just eyeballing and saying they suck?

This. The consensus here, from my point of view, is "Relics currently suck simply because their WS is bad." This is obviously the case with a fair few weapons - Gungnir, Spharai, Kikoku and...maybe Yoichi all fit in this category.

For any other weapon, can any relic holder here produce any substantial evidence to the contrary, be it a parse, gear sets and so on, that shows that their overall damage output is significantly less than an Empyrean on any mob that matters? I've seen no compelling arguments for either side, thus far.

The only weapons people seem to have a huge problem with are those with crit based WS, it seems.

That being sad, I totally agree that the hidden effect procs should be put onto double and triple attacks though, at the very least.

[Kitkat]

Care to define "mob that matters"? Pretty broad or narrow term depending on who you ask.

[Greatguardian]

Tier 3 Part 2 Voidwatch - either path, Neo Dynamis Dreamlands NMs, can't think of much else that can't be killed by a PUP+SMN combo being run by chimpanzees with downs syndrome.

[Atomic_Skull]

All these AGI INT etc. mods for DRK and DRG should go period. STR is where it's at.

You can say that about every WS though. If every physical damage WS had the optimal modifier then every WS would be STR modified.

That's why Mercy Stroke was the best dagger WS for so many years, out of all dagger WS it was the only one with a large STR modifier. Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

If they follow your advice every single physical damage WS would basically be the same WS with a different animation, unless you're saying that DRK and DRG should get special treatment.

[Atomic_Skull]

Right now, 1 relic cost around 75m due to the over farming of dynamis due to the easiness of it. I could easily make relic #2 by buying. It would take me 11 days, only because of the artificial wait times.

No.

10,000 * 17,900 = 179,000,000

[macross]

Maybe on your server. Currency is around 5-7k on mine. Everyone farms, lots of undercutting. Also subtract 3000 from that total, unless you plan on just tossing that extra 3000.

You can easily kill any VW mob with a bunch of pup/smns. You just won't get any good loot ^^

Kitkat, your math assumes you will be constantly fighting, with no amensia or any other status debufs. Having always on dbl/triple dmg is better than having to rely on aftermath. Most will ws at 100 tp, and that's only 30 sec. That wears off pretty damn fast with even a little slack, or when you cannot engage due to no mobs to melee, or amnesia or sleepga or whatever stops you.

[Kitkat]

That is why there is an adjustment of 60% which lowers the proc rate to similar of relics (60% adjustment on 30% aftermath is 18%), but emp aftermath still activates on all hits. I could also factor in the possibility to die, petrify, paralyze, but these are not constant and not something that occurs on all mobs which distorts data. I already listed that it was constant stream or proverbial "brick wall" mechanics, but the truth of the matter still stands as accurate representation. At most you are without aftermath at 100% use for only 10-15% of the time, the remaining 25-30% adjustment is to account for inactivity and the fact it requires the WS to gain the effect.

I have an Emp, this is not outside of improbable and what you mention is only within a small window of which Relics have similar issues that can lower the overall chance of hidden activation..including 95% accuracy cap. What I put up is a blanket representation, what you want is a small window with variables that are inconsistent as not every mob does this, nor is ever player dumb enough to always be in range of the effects due to the possibility of dying.

[newmonkey]

5-7 k dyna currency you say Macross lol maybe we should all invade your server because on quetz and valefor i wish it was that cheap lol.

[Coldbrand]

You can say that about every WS though. If every physical damage WS had the optimal modifier then every WS would be STR modified.

That's why Mercy Stroke was the best dagger WS for so many years, out of all dagger WS it was the only one with a large STR modifier. Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

If they follow your advice every single physical damage WS would basically be the same WS with a different animation, unless you're saying that DRK and DRG should get special treatment.

No not really, they might as well make every mod STR since whichever WS does have a STR mod is most likely to take over as the best WS. It's not exclusive to those two. I just know about Geirskogul and Redemption offhand.

[wish12oz]

I believe this will help equal relic weapon skills to closer to the empyrean / mythic counterparts.

Please stay on topic thanks.

I believe you are sorely mistaken about your beliefs that empyrean and mythic weapons and weapon skills are better then relic weapon skills. Some empyreans are good, some mythics are good, and some relics are good. Stop crying for one thing to be the best across the board. If you're going to make this arguement, then it should be for mythics to be the best, since they are much much harder to acquire then any relic or empyrean.

Twastar only beats Mandau because of ODD and because Rudra's has a larger fTP and scales with TP.

The people who are afraid to reveal who they are because they're wrong spew such great knowledge don't they?
PROTIP: Mandau is superior to Twastar all the time.

No.

10,000 * 17,900 = 179,000,000

Also: Dynamis currency is 8-9k and dropping on Odin. And relics don't all require 179k to make.
EDIT: In fact, I don't think any of them require 179k to make.

New Edit:

The overall time and effort required for a 75 Relic surpasses a that of an 85 Empyrean.

While this is true, why don't you notice that we're level 95 right now, and it's much harder to get any empyrean to 95 then any relic?

New new edit:

This. The consensus here, from my point of view, is "Relics currently suck simply because their WS is bad." This is obviously the case with a fair few weapons - Gungnir, Spharai, Kikoku and...maybe Yoichi all fit in this category.

I'm taking this to mean you think Gugnir is bad compared to the empyrean polearm. Well guess what, Gugnir is vastly superior to the empyrean polearm, because no matter which you have, you'll be using Drakesbane. And in so doing Gugnir still gets its hidden extra damage effect, higher base damage, and ACC that is probably useless, while the empyrean polearm gets... VIT? Lower base damage? .........Where'd the awesomeness of this weapon go?

Spharai's +counter can make it more useful then Vere when tanking, and from what I hear, the new H2H WS might be on par with Vsmite so this weapon is just looking better and better.

Yoichi's no enmity effect can easily make it more useful then Gandiva for some fights where the RNG doesn't want to make the mob move. (not that RNG is ever all that useful)

Kikoku is the only one you listed here that doesn't hold a candle to it's empyrean counterpart, unless the change to Shun makes it good. But hey, apparently the +attack on Kikoku will carry over if you offhand it now, so it's gonna be the best off-hand katana if nothing else. =3