[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Alhanelem]

We ultimately decided to adjust this weapon skill due to the fact that a non-critical hit modifier weapon skill would easily surpass the maximum damage dealt by Hexa Strike in stable conditions, and the result would cause a rapid increase in damage inflation.

We've gained 24 levels... Damage should be inflating past what it was at 75, and it hasn't by very much.

Realmrazer : We don't know how they're changing it, but I'd bet they're dropping it to about a .6 fTP that's propagated through the hits. That way you end up with 4.8 fTP without gorget/belt or 6.4 fTP with gorget and belt instead of the current 8 base (including offhand in all cases).

There must be something I don't understand about fTP- I thought it was simply a multiplier to the damage of a hit, which is usually based on the amount of TP you have on use. I thought that an fTP of less than 1 was therefore a damage penalty, and applying it to every hit meaning that every hit's damage would be reduced. How does .6 fTP add up to 4.8 then?

//genuinely confused- I feel like I must have never understood fTP correctly all this time.

Edit-

Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF

fTP is a direct multiplier. a fTP of less than one applied to all hits means even less damage than if it was only applied to one hit, as far as I can tell. Normally, fTP is 1.0 for all hits after the first, but some of the new weapon skills apply their fTP to all hits.

[wish12oz]

How does .6 fTP add up to 4.8 then?

It's 0.6 fTP per hit. + 0.2 fTP per hit from gorget/belt, and it's a 6 hit weapon skill.
6*0.8=4.8

Generally speaking all extra hits on weapons add fTP+1 per hit, for these new WS's, when they have less then 1 fTP as the modifier for the first hit, the fTP carries over for all hits.

EDIT: I won.

[Nightfyre]

We've gained 24 levels... Damage should be inflating past what it was at 75, and it hasn't by very much.

There must be something I don't understand about fTP- I thought it was simply a multiplier to the damage of a hit, which is usually based on the amount of TP you have on use. I thought that an fTP of less than 1 was therefore a damage penalty, and applying it to every hit meaning that every hit's damage would be reduced. How does .6 fTP add up to 4.8 then?

//genuinely confused- I feel like I must have never understood fTP correctly all this time.

fTP normally applies to the first hit only, and any successive hits can be treated as having a fTP of 1 not affected by gorgets/belts. As such, you could say that Realmrazer has an effective fTP of 7.0 - the first hit is 1.0, then 6 more hits. 8.0 if dual-wielding or you get a multiattack proc, but can't go higher than that due to the 8 hits/round cap. Some of the new WS however use the first hit's fTP, gorget/belt included, on all hits. If the first hit was given an fTP of 0.6 and this was applied to all hits, the effective fTP of the base WS thus becomes 0.6*7=4.2. I'm guessing he was assuming dual wielding (reasonable enough, WHM makes great use of multihit offhands), so 4.8. Add in gorget and belt, 0.8*8=6.4.

[Insaniac]

Maybe the concern is that jobs like SAM are on Polearm and WAR is on club and they don't want those jobs outclassing or keeping up with the main users of those weapons. If that's the case maybe they should just remove the extra jobs from these WSs instead of making them shitty for everyone. These are all gonna end up as WSs that people merit because they don't have access to the best native WS for that weapon. Which is stupid as fuck. I can't think of any reason to spend merits on any of these WSs for any of my jobs other than dagger and I'm hesitant to mention it because they will probably nerf it now.

[Alhanelem]

fTP normally applies to the first hit only, and any successive hits can be treated as having a fTP of 1 not affected by gorgets/belts. As such, you could say that Realmrazer has an effective fTP of 7.0 - the first hit is 1.0, then 6 more hits.

I don't get this still. So you're basically saying that the fTP of all hits is added together into one value? I thought that, ignoring the other things that a weapon skill does to the damage of a hit, a (example) 0.7 fTP meant 70% of normal damage on that hit. Thus meaning every hit would do 70% normal damage if it propgated- meaning less damage than if it didn't propgate.

So is basically what you're saying is that the total damage for the whole WS with fTP 0.7 (all hits combined into one damage total as is done for weapon skills) would have an effective fTP of 4.8, do I understand that right? Because that still sounds bad when you consider multi hit WS that existed prior were effectively 1.0 on all hits after the first, so a 7 hit WS would effectively be 6.0 + whatever th fTP is for the first hit. In other words, a fTP of less than one propgating to all hits still means the weapon skill is worse than if it didn't propgate.

EDIT: I won.

You "won?" Was someone calling you wrong? I was saying I didn't understand- I wasn't calling you wrong, nor did anyone else that I'm aware of.

Edit: Or do you simply mean that you beat the other poster to the punch?

[Zohnax]

@Devs, I really don't see the logic in trying to "balance" new content for a higher level to that of years and dozens of levels past. Usually in a video game, when you level up, you get stronger. Sometimes, you get new abilities/weapon skills, and usually, they're STRONGER as you get higher leveled. No one is going to want to waste 100 merits, let alone 10, on WSs for their favorite jobs if they're crap WSs and do worse than WSs they already got for free back at level 50-60. It's crap like this that builds on players until eventually they say,"Screw this," and go to another game. Now, I'm all for a slim concept of balancing jobs to an extent, but comparing age old content to new age is flat out idiotic.

[xiozen]

There must be something I don't understand about fTP- I thought it was simply a multiplier to the damage of a hit, which is usually based on the amount of TP you have on use. I thought that an fTP of less than 1 was therefore a damage penalty, and applying it to every hit meaning that every hit's damage would be reduced. How does .6 fTP add up to 4.8 then?

//genuinely confused- I feel like I must have never understood fTP correctly all this time.

Edit-

Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF

fTP is a direct multiplier. a fTP of less than one applied to all hits means even less damage than if it was only applied to one hit, as far as I can tell. Normally, fTP is 1.0 for all hits after the first, but some of the new weapon skills apply their fTP to all hits.

This... /end

[Insaniac]

Something they keep saying is that we can enhance the new WSs with gear. What does that even mean? You can do that with any WS. I'm pretty sure I can use attack double attack and STR gear with rampage so what is their point? How does that make things any better?

Where do they expect most of these WSs to be used? Most of them will be completely worthless on anything that your attack isn't capped on. So are these WSs built to destroy TW mobs? I just don't get it. What is the point of releasing new WSs that will be worthless on new content? Why even waste time creating them?

[Alhanelem]

Well, techically, you can interpret it the way the other people are, but basically, a WS with 7 hits and no propgation of FTP would be at least 6.x overall (x being the fTP of the first hit if it's less than 1). a 0.7 fTP propgating to all hits would be 4.8 if added together, essentially making the WS inferior to other multi-hit WS, ignoring stat modifiers (Yes, the new WS have large stat modifiers when fully merited, but is this enough to offset the crappy fTP?)

The long and short of it is, applying a <1.0 fTP to more hits means less damage than if it's not applied to more hits. Damage decreases with the propogation, not increases.

Something they keep saying is that we can enhance the new WSs with gear. What does that even mean?

There are magian weapon skills that (at certain stages) increase damage of specific weaponskills, so it stands to reason that they'll be adding more gear that enhances specific weaponskills rather than just boosting the stat values that we use to enhance our damage.

[Greatguardian]

That's correct. The fTP carry-over is a nerf for all WS with <=0.8 fTP. It could only be a buff for a WS with >0.8 fTP because Gorget/Belt fTP bonuses carry over on all of the WS whose fTP carries over into multiple hits.