Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[Unleashhell]

As it currently stands, there are some weapons that are gonna be absolutely freaking broken should you increase the base WS damage to that of Empyreans. Amano, Apoc, Excalibur, Bravura and Annihilator immediately spring to mind for this. Amano was already very much on par with Masamune on lower defense mobs, Apoc is already DRK's best scythe as it is, Excalibur has it's HP > damage ratio, Bravura allows a full PDT build in full Haste and Annihilator has the utility of having it's enmity supression.

Lol, Have you even seen Knights of Round? It sucks... No matter how much HP you have. Not to mention your almost never at max HP to benefit from the most % you can get out of any WS with that sword.

[Crysten]

Lol, Have you even seen Knights of Round? It sucks... No matter how much HP you have. Not to mention your almost never at max HP to benefit from the most % you can get out of any WS with that sword.

Do you even know how your sword works? The HP additional effect and the occasional 2.5x damage procs are independent of Knights of Round.

Excalibur is already a beastly DPS sword on any higher level mob because of this alone. If you're not at high enough HP for your Excalibur to matter, get better WHMs.

[Unleashhell]

Do you even know how your sword works? The HP additional effect and the occasional 2.5x damage procs are independent of Knights of Round.

Excalibur is already a beastly DPS sword on any higher level mob because of this alone. If you're not at high enough HP for your Excalibur to matter, get better WHMs.

LOL yes I know how my sword works. My point is the actual "Relic weaponskill" which on most relics need to be adjusted a'lot more then the path SE is currently gearing towards. Would be pretty stupid to do a relic and not know how it works...

If you think the HP% and the hidden effect make Excalibur Beastly your sadly mistaken...

[Cljader1]

Do you even know how your sword works? The HP additional effect and the occasional 2.5x damage procs are independent of Knights of Round.

Excalibur is already a beastly DPS sword on any higher level mob because of this alone. If you're not at high enough HP for your Excalibur to matter, get better WHMs.

This is true, excalibur is a beast the normal regular hits are monsterous sometimes even doing as much as the ws itself

[Kitkat]

As prior stated, relic 12~20% hidden procs only activate on the first attack of every round while other weapons have the ability to have their 2-4x damage procs activate on any/all hits that come from that weapon, be it 1 hit per round or 3 hits per round. This alone would go a long way in helping relics by removing the pseudo "12~20%" and making it a true 12-20%.

When you compare the ws, to give just a base fTP increase, or even the ability to scale with varied tp amounts, they still will not touch Emp in overall total damage. Emp has scaling tp and aftermath durations long enough to hold over ws to ws while activating on all hits of the weapon;scaling from 30 to 50% activation depending on level of aftermath.

Even if SE decided to leave them all as one hit wonders, a scaling 3.25ftp to 3.75 (a few with 4.0ftp) would be adequate enough. This is all assuming that they end up being the same exact TP modifier, which is not the case. Some of these could be turned in to simple "ignores defense" rather than "Damage varies by TP" or even be "Chance to crit varies by TP" which could result in different fTP multipliers of them to compensate for the chance to deal critical damage just like other weaponskills with the chance to crit tend to have lower than 3.0ftp.

The flat ftp increase is only assuming that SE has no intention at all to add TP modifiers, meaning the weaponskills would stay as they are but would have a new across the board ftp multipliers which would then place it near to Emp WS totals, but not surpassing them. The ideal behind this is that most other pure DD ws have the ability to start at 3.25 ftp and scale as high as 5.25 ftp while still being a 1hit ws, others are 1.75-2.25 fTP with chance to crit and are multi-hit WS (from 3-4hit) with only one being a 4.0ftp and still being crit hit.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Excalibur is 2nd or 3rd best Pld mainhand weapon, depending on how much Atonement is nerfed against target mob. I really don't see why this is a problem.

[kyomi]

While I don't have a relic I can see why people would complain about them given what I have found. I got fed up with the back and forth between which is hrder so did some homework about the topic point instead. All relic being 3.0 ftp, no tp modifiers, and hidden effect changes seem to be valid complaints.

Back at 75 cap this all made sense, but when you introduce a new weapon line then hardly upgrade an existing one you said wouldn't be replaced, it seems like a kick in the teeth. 25% boost seems lacking, even if factored after everything else, when looking at the lack of scaling with tp. Most aftermath add little to nothing to the wielder mking them want to hold tp, and no bonus to aftermath effect or ws damage if they do.

Being stuck with the ws I have, I would be upset if some of my dd ws didn't scale either or have something that made holding tp augment the ws in sme fashion. I don't have to worry about this though, and some of my ws that don't scale at least have multiple hits to fall back on. With that I think the devs really should take a second look at relics and put more effort ot make them act like normal weapons. The unique nature of them seems to be pretty bad.

[macross]

On my own, meaning i'm playing 2-3 chars to farm with, not 3 people. 3 real people would be much more efficient, and done faster than 40 days. 3 real chars you can avg 550 a day likely, each going separately. 30 days or so.

Are you guys actually parsing your damage, or are you just eyeballing and saying they suck?

[Crysten]

Are you guys actually parsing your damage, or are you just eyeballing and saying they suck?

This. The consensus here, from my point of view, is "Relics currently suck simply because their WS is bad." This is obviously the case with a fair few weapons - Gungnir, Spharai, Kikoku and...maybe Yoichi all fit in this category.

For any other weapon, can any relic holder here produce any substantial evidence to the contrary, be it a parse, gear sets and so on, that shows that their overall damage output is significantly less than an Empyrean on any mob that matters? I've seen no compelling arguments for either side, thus far.

The only weapons people seem to have a huge problem with are those with crit based WS, it seems.

That being sad, I totally agree that the hidden effect procs should be put onto double and triple attacks though, at the very least.

[newmonkey]

Macross why is it you think its ok for empyreans to have very strong weapon skills aswell as a very strong aftermath yet you feel relic weapon skills should be left were they are because some relics have a good aftermath ?

There is nothing wrong with relic holders wanting there relic ws dmg numbers to be equal to empyrean ws numbers you keep going on about bravura and its aftermath, last i checked war can rock a huge chunk of haste now with -pdt gear, metatron does terrible damage compared to ukon and it's a complete and utter joke something needs to be done.

If im wrong and you arn't saying the above then i appologise but it is how you come across.