Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

[DrStrangelove]

Changes to some (not all relics), just the ones I've seen or used

Six of the biggest problems with relic WS are:

1) fTP does not scale
2) some of the WS mods are weak (e.g., INT)
3) some of the AM are weak (e.g., shock spikes or choke)
4) some of the AM hit caps (e.g., haste, subtle blow)
5) some of the underlying weapons are themselves weak (e.g., gungnir)
6) some make no sense (hello, claustrum)

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost). Fix mods (INT/AGI) and change INT to at least STR or DEX.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

Yoichi-Namas same as above. Higher ranged accuracy for aftermath is fine as is. Scale WS mods or bump base to a static 4.00. Namas should have no distance penalty.

Gungnir-remarkably underpowered and beaten by a WOE weapon. Sad. The WS needs to be drastically upped to offset this debacle. Changing mod from 60% AGI is one step. AM (shock spikes?). May be make AM: e.g., wyvern does double/triple breath damage or just give DRG added DD AM. Raise base fTP from 3.00 to 4.00 or scale.

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

Bravura-Metatron should get the same TP scaling or a bump to 4.00. No other changes needed and AM is fine.

Amano-see Bravura. Scale or 4.00.

Guttler-AM is choke. Very very poor. If we really need to go that way, make it silence, blind, slow and paralyze with separate modest proc rates on VT mobs. Or change to better ODD AM, or add a strong pet DD as mentioned for Gungnir. Add 15% attack bonus to Onslaught, make it critical and let it scale. Much better.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

Claustrum-(/sigh). Fix the underlying weapon. Fixing the WS is like putting whipped cream on a patty.

I don't think these make relic WS better than empy WS in Abyssea (which bothers me), but it makes relic WS viable outside on strong mobs.

[Unleashhell]

Changes to some (not all relics), just the ones I've seen or used

Six of the biggest problems with relic WS are:

1) fTP does not scale
2) some of the WS mods are weak (e.g., INT)
3) some of the AM are weak (e.g., shock spikes or choke)
4) some of the AM hit caps (e.g., haste, subtle blow)
5) some of the underlying weapons are themselves weak (e.g., gungnir)
6) some make no sense (hello, claustrum)

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost). Fix mods (INT/AGI) and change INT to at least STR or DEX.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

Yoichi-Namas same as above. Higher ranged accuracy for aftermath is fine as is. Scale WS mods or bump base to a static 4.00. Namas should have no distance penalty.

Gungnir-remarkably underpowered and beaten by a WOE weapon. Sad. The WS needs to be drastically upped to offset this debacle. Changing mod from 60% AGI is one step. AM (shock spikes?). May be make AM: e.g., wyvern does double/triple breath damage or just give DRG added DD AM. Raise base fTP from 3.00 to 4.00 or scale.

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

Bravura-Metatron should get the same TP scaling or a bump to 4.00. No other changes needed and AM is fine.

Amano-see Bravura. Scale or 4.00.

Guttler-AM is choke. Very very poor. If we really need to go that way, make it silence, blind, slow and paralyze with separate modest proc rates on VT mobs. Or change to better ODD AM, or add a strong pet DD as mentioned for Gungnir. Add 15% attack bonus to Onslaught, make it critical and let it scale. Much better.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

Claustrum-(/sigh). Fix the underlying weapon. Fixing the WS is like putting whipped cream on a patty.

I don't think these make relic WS better than empy WS in Abyssea (which bothers me), but it makes relic WS viable outside on strong mobs.

Now this is what I'm talking about. Great feedback, thanks.

[Economizer]

I'm mainly focusing on the Aftermath for what I'm talking about, but I think talking about other factors is good too:

Apoc-If the haste is not allowed to exceed the normal haste cap, then this should be changed to a different strong DD effect (e.g., ODD, occas. attack 2-3 times, attack boost).

I don't think it will ever be able to hit the Haste cap, and attack 2-3 times is a mythic thing. On the other hand, changing the haste to its own category (or at least magic cap) that can help hit the total Haste cap would help. It would be very risky for having it compare to other damage weapons to break the cap period, but being able to hit the Haste cap without a Bard or Dancer on hand would still be incredibly powerful.

Annihilator-Coronach should either scale in damage after 100tp (from 3.00), or have the modifier bumped to 4.00. It's not bad as is, but mobs have much higher HP now, so a modest change is warranted. Lower enmity for aftermath is fine as is. In addition, change mods from AGI/DEX to STR/AGI like Yoichi. Coronach should have no distance penalty.

The no distance penalty thing for the WS sounds good. If people judge the aftermath as fine, then it probably is - I know that my issue I had was looking at stuff like this and Catastrophe and thinking "Why aren't the rest of the aftermath effects as good as these?"

Ragnarok-difficult issue since it's somewhat a stepchild for WAR, DRK and PLD. The addition of an Impetus type affect along with it's current effect probably won't help much. A chance to crit WS would probably be the best solution. Scale TP or increase base to 4.00.

Excalibur-needs dramatic changes to be viable

The aftermaths on these are pretty terrible in general. Definitely need improved versions. If shockspikes is going to be kept, then it should have a near 100% stun rate in addition to the massive damage we only see on NMs.

Regen... if that's going to be kept, it should be something absurd like 100HP/tic.

Kikoku-Change Metsu to 4.00 or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR magical and physical evasion(+25%).

Spharai-Change Final Heaven to 4.00 and or scale it, plus add a bonus to attack (+15%). AM should be EITHER subtle blow effect that is above the cap OR increased DA rate (+10%).

These are very easy, just increase the cap for these weapons, and maybe increase the effect to scale with level.

Personally, I think the accuracy affecting aftermaths should make missing a near impossibility if not an impossibility, but that's just me.

[macross]

Again, seems just asking to make relics stronger than empy, while retaining their special properties. I agree some need work, but so do some empys.

Apoc, let's make this do mega dmg, while keeping the haste and life steal.
gun, let's make this do way more dmg, but keep the -enmity, and heck let us melee and shoot it too!
Bow, let's make this do way more dmg, but keep the -enmity, and heck let us melee and shoot it!
Bravura, lets make it do as much dmg as ukko, but keep the super tanking dt AM.
Amano, alreayd as good as masa or better, so let's make it better for sure!
Guttler, whatever bst doesnt need a weapon. If anything let it help your pet instead of doing mega dmg.
Katana, Let's make it stronger in abyssea. Guess what, hi sucks ass outside abyssea. Relic already better using jin.
sphrai, let's make it as good a VS, but let us counter near 100% too! Better still we won't have to rely on impetus to make it uber.
Staff, whatever

Relics already have built in dbl triple dmg, without even relying on AM.
Relics already are good vs strong mobs. Not as high dmg as some empys, but you got the other special to make up for it.
Maybe you guys are just playing in abyssea and feel your relics suck? cause they do, INSIDE abyssea. Outside, they are good enough.

Do some VW and compare how relics do, they do just fine and dandy. Relics still are the highest base dmg weapons in the game. You can always use the new WS with them as well, where as you cannot with empys as you lose their AM. Only good empys are gaxe, bow, gun, gkt, and h2h, sword. Go watch blade hi hit for 75 dmg on qilin lol. Come level 99, you will be using lvl 99 relics, vs people with lvl 90 empys cause let's face it, not many can or will upgrade empy to 95.

And kitkat, how long did your ls mate take to finish his ukon and h2h? you said 4 man mostly, 75 hours. Did you count the time he spent doing the 25+ NM's beforehand? 600 coins a day, 2hours a day. Yep easily make a relic in under 75 hours, if 4 people went in and farmed 2 hour a day each, and gave all the currency to you. Again your friend is probably underestimating his time spent, time kinda flys fast.

Economizer, bst/dnc is best to farm with, using a ladybug pet for th. bst will outdmg a thief, plus bst is great for getting the Time Extensions. biggest impact on coins is how fast you can get the 5 time extensions. Team up with others then split up after you get them all is best if you can. secondly it's how much competition you have. You can solo 150 coins a day with a perle wearing bst with crappy AH bought weapons. People even lvl up brand new mules to farm dynamis more than once a day. Gear up the bst more and you can hit 200 a day.

That being said, I tried out many combos of jobs, before settling on dnc dnc bst. This relies more on getting 100's to drop with lucky white procs. You can still easily avg 400 a day using 3 jobs/dnc to proc then finishing with strong dd like blu or sam.

I realize some took many years to make their relics, but some didn't. Some make their empys in days, while others take months. All boils down to how hard is it make now, not then. Empys used to be damn hard to make too, it's why i have a lot of woe weapons because empys were just too hard to make back then. Used to take months to get to 75 too, now it takes 1 day. Just because you lvled the hard way long ago doesn't mean you deserve to be better than someone who lvls in 1.

I"m not putting down relics just cause I've upgraded my empy to 95 either. Both were easy to make. Both empys and relics have shitty weapons and good weapons. If bravura starts doing more dmg then ukkos, then what exactly is the point in making ukko. One tanks better, one dps's better. they are balanced. same can be said for h2h. sphrai tanks better, vere dps better. gun and bow, relic survive better, empy more dmg. Getting killed is 0 dps. Surviving and doing less per hit is better than dying.

For relics being so hard to make, empys should be a breeze, so why complain at all, just jump on the bandwaggon and make one no? The jist of the matter is people relics want to feel special, not run of the mill. Want something rare to brag about, but since they suck not, there's nothing to brag about, so is some butthurt there. Empys felt special back when they were hard too. Heck I remember making my WOE h2h soon as lvl 85 was out, and blowing peoples minds with it in xp pts. Now that everyone has an empy, they are nothing special. At least mythic holders can feel good, till the up alex drop rates at least.

PS, bravura can do as much dmg as ukko, you just need to use your 2h. So if that's all you got in abyssea, then pop those 2h chests and go at it.

[Unleashhell]

We should be able to merit any weapon skill instead of just these new ones. I don't see why they are going to implement meriting one weapon skill and not allow us to merit previous weapon skills of the same weapon. At least if we can merit any weapon skill it would be a nice incentive. Better yet merit the entire group of weapon skills at once. Say 2% per upgrade for all sword weapon skills (or w/e weapon you use for your main job) as an example.

Having 2% per upgrade and maxing at 5 upgrades will give a 10% damage increase to all the weapons skills in that category. Meriting a weapon skill based off skill level imo isn't the way to go and SE should rethink what they are doing. We should be able to merit any weapon skill we choose or merit the entire group as a whole. Sorta off topic but this would include relic weapon skills.

[Vizardx]

Id say:
Make aftermath effect a fixed duration and allow TP to enhance other features such as crit chance or damage delt etc.

Also take a note from the merited Weaponskills and give them 100% stat mods and make them the number of hits as indicated by their animations.

Maybe they could add 2 or more trials to accomplish this.

[Cljader1]

Well I have Caladbolg, Redemption and Apoc for my Drk, and my apoc is by far the most damaging weapon mainly because of the hidden effect boost at lvl 95 double damage kicks in 20% of the time with the aftermath being haste further increase my DPS. Also I wear full drk AF3, which gives a %5 chance of double damage which is separate and independent of a relic's hidden effect, this allows me to get a small chance at quad damage which is really nice. However the lvl 99 upgrade should increase the hidden effect and aftermath effect by a every sizable boost, if SE really want to reward relic holders they will boost the hidden effect, aftermath, and weaponskill on a lvl 99 relic.

[Atomic_Skull]

Also remove the restriction on the extra damage proc not taking effect on the second or third hit of double/triple attack.

[macross]

Relic weapons to 95 are about the same difficulty as empys to 95. Why do they need such crazy boosts? Relic holders act like it's super hard to make a relic or something...
Perhaps if 99 relic and empy are really hard trials then they deserve such buffs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Relic weapons to 95 are about the same difficulty as empys to 95. Why do they need such crazy boosts? Relic holders act like it's super hard to make a relic or something...
Perhaps if 99 relic and empy are really hard trials then they deserve such buffs.

Maybe the trial stage, but getting the actual weapon is no where near as easy to get as Emp's, the hardest stage for them was the most recent one.

50 items != 1000+ 100s