The debate-free Poll.

[Fredjan]

I personally want Red Mage to be useful again. I want RDM to have specific enfeebles that no other job has (seriously, was it too bad to keep Addle RDM specific...?) Addle wasn't by all means an OMG enfeeble, but it was useful against magic heavy mobs and the first unique one we've had. I don't consider "higher tiers" of some enfeebles through merits unique, just more potent.

So I'm more for the mage aspect improved. The melee aspect... doesn't even get any interest from me because I've got DD jobs more suited for meleeing any day of the week. Last time I meleed on RDM was to learn Death Blossom at 75 and I'd have to have an Almace to ever do that again, because I'm one of the few that doesn't see the point without CdC or, at the minimum, Vorpal Blade, and my Blue Mage can do that regardless of sub.

Last time I even played RDM was to level it to 95.

Goes without saying I would've been all over Temper if they had let us target others with it. I would've loved to have an enhancing spell that's unique to us and not self-target.

[Brightshadow]

I think its pretty simple to fix Red mages. Many think that if SE is going to buff Red mage Melee side that they are going to be lacking in the mage department but that a bunch of BS. And some little changes that can really change our gameplay can be done within a couple of hours to a day.

1.)First off we know that one of the biggest thing that doesn't allow us to melee is our cast load. Blue mages can melee because there spells are supported by TP, and they can cast very fast. Now While Red Mages do have faster casting than Black mage and White mage I think that a simple change to the Fast Cast Formula is all that is needed to reduce our cast load. Here is the new Formula I had in mind.

-Fast Cast I
Casting Time -10%
Recast Time -5%

-Fast Cast II
Casting Time -20%
Recast Time -10%

-Fast Cast III
Casting Time -30%
Recast Time -15%

-Fast Cast IV
Casting Time -40%
Recast Time -20%

-Fast Cast V
Casting Time -50%
Recast Time -25%

2.)Secondly while Composure is a great ability, and the triple Duration for buffs is great. I think that instead of it being a Ability it should be a trait. Just remove the ACC bonus, and the Penalty and it will greatly help us with our cast load.

3.)And Finally I understand that many of you think its a waste of time for Red mages to melee. But what we are asking for is not for "oh my god damage" we are asking for adjustments to make us more useful in the frontlines. And here are some ideas oh how I think it can be done.

-Allow us to wear more melee gear.
Before we used to be able to wear melee gear until a point, atleast chain armor but now we can't even wear that anymore, nor light armor. Atleast let us wear what THF,BLU,DNC and other light armor user can equip.

-Give us Access to the following Weaponskills Natively.
(Sanguine Blade)
(Vorpal Blade)

-Give us Access to the following Traits Natively.
(Subtle Blow)-To put less strain on us with the feeding TP excuse. (T1=LV30)(T2=LV60)(T3=LV90)

-Allow Enspell II to work with dual wield and multiple hits.
The increase in damage per hit is great, but why doesn't it work with multiple hits.

And while we still won't have a purpose to be on the frontlines these adjustments are a step in the right direction toward RDM melee, and we will atleast be viewed as competent on the frontlines. (If PUP can survive the stigma so can we)

[cidbahamut]

2.)Secondly while Composure is a great ability, and the triple Duration for buffs is great. I think that instead of it being a Ability it should be a trait. Just remove the ACC bonus, and the Penalty and it will greatly help us with our cast load.

This would actually be pretty cool. I'm already full-timing Composure for everything that doesn't require Utsusemi or Cursna spam, so turning it into a job trait would fit nicely.

[Seriha]

Say what now? I think you've got me mixed up with someone else.

It all starts to blur after a while. Either way, you don't see us running to Alla or other portions of this board demanding people come shut the mage only retards up or to mass report people who dare have a differing opinion. It's hard to take people who claim to love a job seriously when they'd gleefully gut an aspect of it (See your agreement to nerfing Composure...) if only because it wasn't good enough to begin with. No, if you loved a job, you'd want more people playing it, eking out every last ounce of potential it had. The commentary accompanying some of the negative replies here reeks more of a grudge than genuine concern for RDM.

[cidbahamut]

So if I really loved Red Mage I'd have the same opinions about it that you do. Got it.

[Seriha]

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

[Greatguardian]

It all starts to blur after a while. Either way, you don't see us running to Alla or other portions of this board demanding people come shut the mage only retards up or to mass report people who dare have a differing opinion. It's hard to take people who claim to love a job seriously when they'd gleefully gut an aspect of it (See your agreement to nerfing Composure...) if only because it wasn't good enough to begin with. No, if you loved a job, you'd want more people playing it, eking out every last ounce of potential it had. The commentary accompanying some of the negative replies here reeks more of a grudge than genuine concern for RDM.

I love Corsair.

At the same time, I LOVE that practically no one plays Corsair.

Why? Because the few people who take the time and spend the massive amount of gil it takes to properly play Corsair are generally invested in the job to the point where they're actually going to put effort into being good at it. Practically every Corsair who posts in the Corsair subforums has an Armageddon. Those forums are great. There's less activity, but the posts that do get put up there are solid. The Devs give us some of the updates that we ask for, and they don't give us others. Either way, we love the ones we got, and you don't see any Corsairs running around raging on every board to get attention.

No. Loving a job has nothing to do with wanting it to be "popular" and having lots of people play it. Just because I love Rdm doesn't mean anyone else should. I don't just play each of my jobs to their max potential, I play the whole game to its potential. I maximize the Magical aspect of my Red Mage because that's the aspect I would use Red Mage for. I don't need to worry about the melee aspect because I have plenty of melee jobs who can do it better.

And you know what, I didn't demand that anyone go anywhere or post anything. I linked to this thread because I knew it was going to be a trainwreck, and the OP was so hilariously misguided that it fit within the topic of the thread I posted it in (being, funny/stupid crap on the Official Forums).

BG is not my personal army, nor is it anyone else'. Regardless of what you might think, I'm just not that cool.

[Seriha]

Cool isn't the word I'd use, but carry on trying to mask that thread.

Anyway, there's not some either/or conspiracy here when it comes to mage/melee attention, as much as some of you guys want to paint us the evil people that ruined SE's attention to RDMs. Are resources limited? I don't doubt it. On the other hand, throwing things to 20 jobs at once alongside the cap increases and event adjustments is a bit more daunting than just focusing solely on one or two jobs were the cap stabilized. At present, we have the vague promised enfeebling adjustments, and I guess some nifty things in that vein, but also still vague. I'm as curious as the next person, but we won't get that info until it's given.

For now, when it comes to jobs, it seems like SE's focus is on SCH. I can't blame them for that given the grumbling we've done about homogenization (especially if removing RDM's melee potential) and a lack of popularity. You can try to spin such in COR's favor, but between a mix of expenses and being a newer "not-quite-gambler-like-people-imagined-back-in-the-day" job, it's not surprising it sees fewer bodies populating it. I wouldn't outright disqualify someone from liking COR if they were unhappy with that, just as I don't mind people who are okay with being a backline RDM. Problems arise when they start like there's only one way to play and anyone who doesn't subscribe is a(n) <insert flavor insult here> instead of at least allowing a hybrid class to be hybrid. With the way some rave, I'd swear they'd be okay with MNKs wielding guns if it meant they did more damage than H2H.

[Greatguardian]

I would wield a gun on Monk if it did more damage than H2H =/

Cor/Whms who roll in Trump Guns with Marksmanship 0 are retarded, too. Thankfully, rolls are expensive enough that most people who would gimp the job up don't bother starting it in the first place. Cor isn't "unpopular" because it's unfun, or the concept isn't freaking awesome (Hello? Pirate king with luck-based buffs, that they can eventually manipulate to a tee, who shoots lazer guns with exploding bullets? SIGN ME UP). Cor is "unpopular" because it's a job that requires significant investment to play at even the most basic level. The only people who play the job, then, are ones who have the means and motivation to take it seriously. Most good players may not be Corsairs, but most Corsairs are good players. Good luck saying that about any other job, especially one with a history like Red Mage.

Frankly, what it comes down to is this: You highly underestimate the ability of top tier players to use everything humanly possible to their advantage. You want Red Mage, the most singularly powerful job in the game, to receive both Magical AND Melee buffs? Enter Gilgamesh, King of Kings. YOU personally may not be a walking demigod, *I* may not personally be a walking demigod, no one on this subforum may be a walking demigod. But there will be walking demigods.

The Devs know this. They know that universal improvements to an already exceedingly powerful job can spawn demigods. That's why they're never going to do it. No matter how much you and other RdMelees want to tout about the Dev's ability to actually work through all the updates given enough time, the plain and simple truth is that they won't, and they'd be irresponsible if they did anyways.

[Seriha]

And we come full circle to why you're not especially welcome in these conversations. It's not just a case of disagreement, it's outright refusal to compromise because you think it's "irresponsible" or "impossible" to do while throwing out the strawman demigod fear.