Stage2 Ochain/Daudarbla

[scaevola]

er Markov... this is Stage2 so don't compare Ochain/Daud Stage2 with Stage1 of other empyrean...

I think he means to say stage 2 of Daruchain isn't as frustrating and inconvenient as a Tahrongi Empyrean. I don't know if I agree with that, but I don't think it matters which is really worse because they're both way worse than anything else.

Also, if you're getting 1/40 color change on T1>T2, why are you doing that in the Heroes zone? If it's that awful, surely it's worth your time to come partake of the 1/3ish change rate I see in La Theine.

[Frost]

Arcon, with all due respect, please tell me you understand the difference between "Best Case Scenario" and "Worst Case Scenario"...

Rearden, Please go look up "Staw man Argument"... And the next time you decide to use a buzzword, please use the right one.... At best I possibly did a formal syllogistic fallacy, but only if I inferred that to do a shield would take 6,000 hours... Instead I gave a range based on likely scenarios....

Good day sir....

[scaevola]

Arcon, with all due respect, please tell me you understand the difference between "Best Case Scenario" and "Worst Case Scenario"...

Rearden, Please go look up "Staw man Argument"... And the next time you decide to use a buzzword, please use the right one.... At best I possibly did a formal syllogistic fallacy, but only if I inferred that to do a shield would take 6,000 hours... Instead I gave a range based on likely scenarios....

Good day sir....

So, were your numbers based on the idea that with H2H, you can, at the end of the day, always proc red to get progress, and with Daruchain you can't, making the worst case scenario much worse due to the unreliability?

Because that's definitely true and there isn't a soul (nyuk nyuk) who'd argue red shouldn't upgrade abyssite, but going with such an unrealistic example (1/40 color change? really?) only looks disingenuous.

[Arcon]

Arcon, with all due respect, please tell me you understand the difference between "Best Case Scenario" and "Worst Case Scenario"...

6,000 Hours (+/- 500 hours) assuming the more realistic [..]

This was what put me off. I thought you meant that that's closer to the average than the other values, which, from, by now extensive, experience, I can't possibly agree with. I can do some parses later, but from eyeballing I'd say 1/10 conversion rate on T1->T2 is already pessimistic. 1/5 ~ 1/4 for T2->T3 conversion is, I believe, accurate enough.

[Frost]

Gotcha, yeah misplacement... That was suppose to highlight the dismal nature of the change rates, but not define the extreme as the norm.

My bad.

Edit: My change rates havent' been that great for Tier 1's personally, I usually get about 1:12 (if I'm lucky) on T1 > T2, but phenominal luck on T2 . T3 (Hate to brag but typically 1:1) but I know people working on Ochain (whom I'm helping) that have been getting some seriously bullshit change rates.

[Maacha]

This was what put me off. I thought you meant that that's closer to the average than the other values, which, from, by now extensive, experience, I can't possibly agree with. I can do some parses later, but from eyeballing I'd say 1/10 conversion rate on T1->T2 is already pessimistic. 1/5 ~ 1/4 for T2->T3 conversion is, I believe, accurate enough.

I haven't bothered trying to start on my Harp yet because of the VNM problem. When I was trying to get Serpentes Sabots, I would quite often go 1/10+ on colorless to colorful upgrades, sometimes going as high as 20+. Competition for the tier 2 and tier 3 is also a big issue; I live in the JP timezone, so they are always camped by multiple groups whenever I'm online. Since I'm an English speaker in the JP timezone, I end up doing most of my things alone (dual/triboxing when needed).

If they aren't willing to give us multiple copies of each tier 2 or tier 3 in each zone, how about adding Souls to the tier 3 in the other 6 Abyssea zones to spread out the demand? The difference in strength of tier 3s in the older zones really isn't an issue anymore, people are already soloing/duoing the tier 3s in Heroes zones.

[Masamunai]

Bla. Competition doesn't factor into my calculations at all

You should, because it's the reality of anyone wanting to pass that stage. Also it what turns that stage from "ok" in theory to "horrible" in reality.

I can do some parses later, but from eyeballing I'd say 1/10 conversion rate on T1->T2 is already pessimistic. 1/5 ~ 1/4 for T2->T3 conversion is, I believe, accurate enough.

Yes in theory that should be something like that, but then gotta account for competition, which means multiplying those numbers with a reduction depending on how heavy competition is at a given time. In the example of this morning i claimed basically 1/2 pops within the 120mins span. So with your numbers, my chances to change color are : 1/5~1/4 * 1/2 = 1/10~1/8, and this vs a single competitor. You can imagine if you had heavier competition you would multiply by more than 1/2...

+1 for Frost conclusion:

Square really needs to hire people to play on the production servers to actually evaluate the game, and make adjustments based on reality. Instead of doing everything on paper, and ignoring external variables like time, competition, and "Real Life".

[Rearden]

Your numbers for H2H trial are low and are false in the eyes of your opposition (H2H) as to Ochain. While you aren't arguing with anyone in particular, you are arguing with a thing and that is your subject.

Saying it would take 250 days isn't itself false either, but to even present that as a logical option infers you are playing up your argument for the sake umph factor.

While doing this, again, you are disregarding that H2H actually takes a large amount of "time" to complete and its own range can vary as drastically (though not quite as drastically as the made up spectrum of 250days) to complete.

It's not the most solid definition of straw man, but as I read it it fits. In either case, the only realistic part of your post was that SE ignores external variables, though your reasoning is off. I can't say why they do what they do because in the end it doesn't "fly" for most people and is only enhanced by the fact that this game doesn't have a lot of life left, especially with what we're being offered.

Other examples would be Relics (Dyna revamp) or Mythics. The inordinate amount of time it has taken to complete these throughout the ages demands a lack of interest for the other parties that would have to be involved in creating said items. There should be difficulty as there SHOULD be difficulty for Brochain/Dardaubla as well.

In the case of the latter, the options you have are difficult mobs vs. time to complete vs. limiting spawns (again controlling time, but this factor is enhanced by the # of people desiring said items but can also make the trials really easy). In abyssea, they aren't left with many options from that list.

Lastly, there is only one "difficult" stage of Brochain/Dardaubla and that is the one in question, they have addressed two issues a) increasing change rates and b) Maere/Brulo drop rates being broken still

When these are fixed and it's still bad, then you guys will have a new argument. As it stands they can only fix what they fix when they fix it. (And I largely find SE to be incompetent with regards to what the game needs, but in this case they've at least addressed some of the bigger issues)

[Masamunai]

there is only one "difficult" stage of Brochain/Dardaubla and that is the one in question, they have addressed two issues a) increasing change rates and b) Maere/Brulo drop rates being broken still
When these are fixed and it's still bad, then you guys will have a new argument

Er... did i miss something but i only seen the b) from a Camate's quote, but where the a) comes from?

[Rearden]

There were two posts in that thread from the DEVs, one addressing change rates and the other addressing drop rates.