[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Ophannus]

I don't see why we can't Gain on others even if it's single target and in party like Etudes. What's even the point of giving us Gain-AGI/Gain-CHR anyway if not for completion's sake? Would be nice in low man to cast AGI on a THF or maybe CHR on a BRD or something but we'll realistically never use those spells because they're no important for RDM 99.9999% of the time! I normally wouldn't care but since SE said the Game's Spell-list is reaching maximum capacity, why bother adding superfluous spells like Gain-CHR for RDM if we can't even cast on others. That's a total waste of a potential spell for another job or ours that will now never come to be because it's taking up a space with its miserable existence. It would be nice if enfeebls from different sorts all stacked the way Slow II and Elegy stack. Maybe give Jubaku and Hojo their own Icons and let them stack with Slow/Paralyze also? Could be nice to have cumulative Slow/Paralyze/Gravity enfeebles the way Dia/Box Step/Angon all stack.

[Neisan_Quetz]

dAGI buff. CHR... I still don't have, and probably never will have, it's just continuing in the line of gain spells for each stat.

[Doombringer]

just ftr, rdms current dagger skill is B, not B+

then, as far as a ja/spell to gain access to ex ws's... i'm sorta hoping we just GET those with the coming proficiency update. rather than atatching them to a spell.

as for fencer.. i don't think it would really outweigh DW. i'd be equally happy if SE just stopped trolling rdm's everywhere and changed the damn name..

healing is a tough one.... not only do we not wanna step on whms toes... but you also need to figure in scholar.. should scholar be a better or worse healer than rdm? because that effects where rdm needs to land, since you may need to leave room between rdm and whm for sch.
for rdm anyway..
1) i'd like to see composure changed, so it effects all members. then give regen3/4 to rdm. with composures duration buff, that becomes a LOT of hp recovered for the mp spent.. it doesn't really solve the "holy shit!" problem but it's a step in the right direction. think about it... regen4 fulltimed?

or

2)alternately, i'd like to see the enmity reductions for cure 5 (and maybe 6) removed, then give whm a significantly stronger tranquil heart trait. make it so they break even (may even buff them when you consider cure4) while making room for rdm or sch to cure5 if it's really critical. it needs to be limited somehow.. regardless of how much "better" whm can cure, if rdm/whm could FREELY cast cure5.. that would be "good enough" and we'd likely be right back to toau.

or

3) lets just get way more fast cast? like a crazy amount. to the point where we can fire off 2 cure4's in the time it takes a whm to do 1 cure5. there is an issue here with that being crazy overpowered when you consider stuff like utsusemi or sleep, but it's something to toy with. maybe just lower the recast on cures?

[Seriha]

While Gains on others can be useful, sure, it's not another cycle I'd welcome.

[Rayik]

I'm really curious about this "WS adjustment" portion of the update. In that Dev response we got earlier(can't remember if it was in this thread) Camate noted RDM specifically, so my big question is are we getting access to other EX WS's(Vorpal, Sanguine, etc), or are they just fixing the numbers on the ones we already have(Savage Blade, etc)?

[Ophannus]

SCH can get Cure 5 just make it require Addendum White. RDM should have gotten Cure 5 this update as we've always gained Cure Spells about 5-6 levels before SCH and PLD. THey keep saying they don't want to overpower RDM by giving us Cure 5 but they said they had a similar stance to not letting BLU equip KC/Joyeuse/Ridill, and now BLU can use OAT and OA2-4 swords.

[Hyrist]

they said they had a similar stance to not letting BLU equip KC/Joyeuse/Ridill, and now BLU can use OAT and OA2-4 swords.

Two different dynamics.

Dealing Damage with multi-attack weapons is offset by the fact that the damage values of these weapons are low and the fact that both you and the monster are gaining TP at an enhanced rate.

Curing, however, does not come with that balance factor, Cure V in particular being even more-so with this as it does not come with the potentially dangerous hate spike Cure IV can provide. Furthermore, the additional traits and abilities White Mage get to make it a superior healer is not always necessary for a number of situations. Giving Red Mage and Scholar Cure V puts them in direct competition for a slot that the developers pretty much perceive as designated for the White Mage to fill, as curing and status removal is the root selling point of the job, offering little else.

Keeping the healing performance so widely differentiated helps White Mages keep the position they have, one that the developers had to piratically redesign the job to wrest from the hands of Pink Mages.

[SpankWustler]

If White Mage were to receive just 1~5% more "Converts % of 'Cure' amount to MP" effect some some new source, the job would have a HUGE lead in cure MP efficiency when properly equipped. Maybe I'm nuts, but I assume the effect will be on another piece of equipment or a level 99 merit.

Something along those lines would pretty well blot out the main reason Scholar or Red Mage could overtake White Mage for marathon events, and maybe the jobs could finally get some new and much needed tools for keeping folks less dead.

[Hyrist]

Something along those lines would pretty well blot out the main reason Scholar or Red Mage could overtake White Mage for marathon events, and maybe the jobs could finally get some new and much needed tools for keeping folks less dead.

You're seriously mistaking the reason why RDM and SCH would best out WHM .

It's not that they would beat out WHM's curing in the long haul, that may have been part of the reason during the ToAU era.

The issue now is what the job offers ASIDE from curing. IF SCH and RDM can handle main healing on their own as a 'viable healer', they could likely do so and provide some of their other important support functions as well, reducing the amount of support slots players need in a party so more DD's can join in. WHM get's bumped out because they offer very little else to the group.

This gets even moreso for Scholar in fights as they could 2hr Embrava up for a specific section of the fight, and they've already got an AoE stat increase like the Boost spells. With /RDM giving hast at 99 that lack of curing power is going to be all it lacks to overpower WHM's position for all but the most hecktic fights.

RDM's higher Debuff Line, and longer duration buffs make it superior at dolling out Haste to the needed Melees, and Refresh II out paces Martyr. /SCH or /WHM provides the status removal needed and Stratagems /SCH can provide some elemental resistance needed. Pair that off with the highest fast cast of any job.

Then you have Saboter. Need a stronger Slow II? A better Dia III? RDM can flex it's debuffs to whatever the party desires while being the original self-sustained for support.

These are pretty compelling reasons for keeping RDM's and SCH's healing potential in check. Unless they start giving some other means of support on WHM more than what they have to support the party, WHM is going to start looking like overkill on everything but the toughest mobs/events in which both consistently high damage, and nasty status effects are a frequently recurring problem.

I might not like being able to cure bomb my allies anymore, but I fully understand the reasoning. And I'd much rather have more unique spells and have less raw curing potential, then have the curing potential and be shoved in the WHM corner for general use.

[SpankWustler]

Oh no! Jobs meant to do multiple things would be desired due to their ability to do multiple things, particular when a lot of one thing isn't needed!