[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Neisan_Quetz]

Needs to break the potency cap, or be calculated differently but not bad imo. I'll mull over it later.

[cidbahamut]

Lots of stuff about Regen

Sometimes I have to wonder if we're even playing the same game Hyrist. I love regen to death and abused it shamelessly whenever possible, but as it currently stands Regens aren't a realistic approach to keeping people Not Dead.

If you want Regens to be even remotely viable, you're going to have to overhaul the entire spell line and even then you're still going to run into balance issues because all you're accomplishing is buffing White Mages to make them even more overpowered than they already are. Anyone who thinks White Mage is ever getting dethroned has their head stuck in a 2005 colibri merit party and is completely out of touch with how the game works in 2011. White Mage is king and nothing is going to put a dent in its powerbase short of SE bludgeoning it to death with the nerf bat.

[Swords]

Speaking purely outside of Abyssea, this is true to an extent cid, unlike back then WHM has access to most of RDM's means of MP longevity. The fact that all jobs do now means they no longer have to heavily rely on RDM to support them like in the olden days. However there is a degree where the ToAU days could happen again when you consider the following

-HP pools are not 2-4k outside of Abyssea giving Cure IV/V greater impact
-RDM is still the king of mp longevity
-Buffs last longer giving greater mp returns and more casting leeway
-More available fast cast and cure potency gear

RDM might NOT be the best of the best at curing, but as long as the payload is manageable where one person can take sole responsibilities for the mage duties most wont think twice about giving up a second mage for another melee even if it's less than optimal or detrimental to performance. And sad as it is to say, most people have not grown out of the bird camp mindset even with the introduction of Abyssea, it just pushed other jobs into the bandwagon positions with triggers and high DPS/Nuke/Cure numbers.

[Hyrist]

Again, Cid, you speak of HNM endgame a if it is the entirety of FFXI. You really should be on my ignore list by now but somehow I seem to have masochistic tenancies to listen to you.

Red Mage does NOT need burst healing to be considered a "Viable Healer", and if you need a burst healer, you need someone besides Red Mage to do it.

As far as general healing purposes, situations in which your players' HP don't go from full to near empty from 1 move. RDM just needs a more potent healing over time to offset Cure IV spam. My take is that Regen 4 and better damage prevention spells is suited better for this instance.

You really need to get your head out of the boxed-in mentality you've sunk yourself into. Red Mage should be more about damage prevention than HP restoration. Cure V is not the answer to RDM's woes in being a support, and it most certainly does not need to be another 'main' healer.

And completely ignoring the White Mage argument; there are 4 other jobs in the game with Cure V capacity or higher, on top of EVERY job capable of at the very least subbing cure 4. You don't need more, nor does RDM need Cure V to get by. That's a bad cop-out to fix what the job REALLY needs, which is some TP attack mitigation.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What 4 other jobs? I count 1, and it's called Whm. Dnc is a 23(?) second timer, Blu is Cure 4.5/aga 4.5 with no access to as much cure potency/fast cast/recast, Sch is 4.5 while blowing strategems slowing down their healing capability.

As long as SE refuses on the basis 'it would make the game too easy' it is the easiest solution over... absolutely nothing they've implemented so far.

[Hyrist]

Clarification, four other jobs aside from Red Mage and Scholar.

WHM Cure V, Cure VI

Soulsoother (Puppetmaster): Cure V, Cure VI

Blue Mage: Plenilune Embrace (Belittle if it you want it is still burst healing category, and cry more on the Cure potency, you gain an Atk/Matk bonus from the spell. What are you doing with that Add-on gear anyways?)

Dancer: Curing Waltz V (Learn when to use it properly and you won't have a problem with the timer.)

Any one of the Hybrids + a RDM or a SCH can manage the curing load of all but the toughest category of mobs without any need of Cure V. Just because these are not your spam-happy classes does not mean the combinations are not viable. Even the non WHM jobs can handle specific curing loads for NMs and events on their own of the circumstances are right for it.

If you need spammed burst high damage curing, then of course you would need the curing specialist (Read:WHM) or you would need better damage mitigation.

This idea of approaching an event with brain-dead melees with paper thin defenses (Read, little to no PDT/MDT gear), and complaining that your cure power isn't high enough to make up for bad defense set ups and tactics isn't intelligent game development or even game-play.

For Red Mage, development should take the route of providing better damage mitigation, not taking on some arbitrary spell that pulls RDM further away from being the enfeebler/enhancer everyone's crying for them to be.

I've yet to hear a valid argument for more burst curing jobs in general play in the game that doesn't amount to lazy invite habits and the cure version of BNS. Seriously, why would you want Cure V over spells that would PREVENT more damage? Same goal met, different method, and more usefulness in endgame events in which you're going to end up with a WHM + RDM anyways, and this way you're wasting less HP cured than if you both wound up hitting Cure V and over-topping the player.

Because at this point, you might as well call it as a decision between those two solutions because the likely won't develop former due to balance issues if you give RDM the latter.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You can throw PUP out the window because its AI is retarded. Once again, a healing spell on a 23 second timer and requiring TP and locking them out of using any other support ability related to healing does not a healer make. If Cure V was on a 23 secone timer and you couldn't use Erase/na's in the meantime, do you really think anyone would bring a whm for anything?

My add-on gear is locked into ws/cure potency hat for rdm, dw/acc body for melee, and soon to be cure pot/PDT legs for rdm and whm (whm only benefits from the PDT). And no, I do not care that much about BLU to make add-on augments for it. My main job is still Rdm.

[Byrth]

Until RDM gets a useful buff, there's no reason to use it over WHM simply because WHM can do the same job and neither job has MP issues these days if geared properly. RDM brings Dia III to the table (-5% DEF over Dia II), but it has to sub Scholar or White Mage for status removal. My poorly geared White Mage mule subs Thief in Dynamis and keeps me alive through 5-mob Aeolian Edge spamming pulls without downtime.

Temper could have been that buff, if it was 3~4 times as potent and party-target. It isn't, so it's not.


I've turned the problem with supporting role RDM into this handy decision tree:
1) How much Refresh do you need for what you're doing? (2 - A lot!, 4 - Not Much)
2) How hard does what you're fighting hit? (3 - Really Hard!, X - Why do you need a lot of Refresh then?)
3) End: Okay, go WHM/RDM
4) Is what you're doing affected by Treasure Hunter? (5 - Yes, 8 - Not rly)
5) Are there any status debuffs? (6 - Yes, 7 - No)
6) End. Go WHM/THF
7) End. Go RDM, WHM, or SCH/THF
8) End. Go any job with Cure IV

So if you were going to gear one job with Cure IV for the purpose of filling a supporting role, White Mage should be that job.

[Shiyo]

I agree, we don't need cure5, we should heal as well as a brd/whm, it only makes sense.

We also shouldn't balance around the most challenging, fun, rewarding content in the game. We should be balancing jobs around la theine worm pts, not voidwatch!

40 HP regen ticks is also going to outheal those 1k+ gas/t4's/tp moves with capped PDT/MDT sets!

[cidbahamut]

Again, Cid, you speak of HNM endgame a if it is the entirety of FFXI. You really should be on my ignore list by now but somehow I seem to have masochistic tenancies to listen to you.

It's because I bring up legitimate points, even if they make you uncomfortable.

What you're basically arguing for Hyrist is that our healing capacity should be limited to being useful on stuff that any evasion heavy class could solo with relative ease and no outside assistance. That's an extremely limited scope of usefulness.