[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Godsman1]

i got a question . if i have been away from ffxi for 5 years , how many updates can i expect

[Ophannus]

Camate has addressed feedback and tweaks to all jobs that received an update this patch except PLD and RDM and WHM. I think every other job has had its abilities altered, shortened, strengthened or adjusted in some way except Palisade/Temper/Spontaneity.

SCH: Klaustra/Embrava/Tabula Rasa boosts
SMN: Stunga casting time
BLM: Comet damage
DRG: Steady Wing strengthened.
NIN: That new Parry JA enhanced
SAM: Hagakure recast reduced.
BRD: Pianissmo reduced and Mercado potency reduced.
BLU: Dark Orb MP reduced, Heavy Strike accuracy reduced.
BST: Pets being voted on right now on BST forums.
RNG: I don't think this was adjusted but they gave evidence and reasons why.

[Hyrist]

Oh no! Jobs meant to do multiple things would be desired due to their ability to do multiple things, particular when a lot of one thing isn't needed!

When your primary, designated job for healing does one thing well, and offers little else yeah. It's a problem. WHM should be the go to being a 'main healer'. And if you want to go without it, invite more hybrids or other jobs that help reduce damage.

ToAU's exp/meriting system was nothing short of a pox on the game and a serenade to mindless melees. Why do you think I want a variant endgame and more variant forms of job play?

I'm not saying remove RDM and SCH from the healers list completely, but tone down their position so that WHM is still a consideration even when their curing ability is overkill, and give RDM and SCH more availability and viability in differing departments so that inviting any combination of these doesn't seem so counter-productive. (Same for giving WHM something to offer in lesser cure Demanding situations.) I'm in support of this for Melee jobs as well.

There shouldn't be any 'one right answer' to approach a situation, regardless of its difficulty. The idea of what makes an MMO so worthwhile is that it is so large and variant.

SE has been doing a fairly good job so far enforcing this approach, in spite of some of the short-sighted bawwing I keep seeing.

[cidbahamut]

There shouldn't be any 'one right answer' to approach a situation, regardless of its difficulty. The idea of what makes an MMO so worthwhile is that it is so large and variant.

"We need a white mage, nothing else will do". There's your variety, how do you like it?

[saevel]

then, as far as a ja/spell to gain access to ex ws's... i'm sorta hoping we just GET those with the coming proficiency update. rather than atatching them to a spell.

as for fencer.. i don't think it would really outweigh DW. i'd be equally happy if SE just stopped trolling rdm's everywhere and changed the damn name..

healing is a tough one.... not only do we not wanna step on whms toes... but you also need to figure in scholar.. should scholar be a better or worse healer than rdm? because that effects where rdm needs to land, since you may need to leave room between rdm and whm for sch.
for rdm anyway..
1) i'd like to see composure changed, so it effects all members. then give regen3/4 to rdm. with composures duration buff, that becomes a LOT of hp recovered for the mp spent.. it doesn't really solve the "holy shit!" problem but it's a step in the right direction. think about it... regen4 fulltimed?

or

2)alternately, i'd like to see the enmity reductions for cure 5 (and maybe 6) removed, then give whm a significantly stronger tranquil heart trait. make it so they break even (may even buff them when you consider cure4) while making room for rdm or sch to cure5 if it's really critical. it needs to be limited somehow.. regardless of how much "better" whm can cure, if rdm/whm could FREELY cast cure5.. that would be "good enough" and we'd likely be right back to toau.

or

3) lets just get way more fast cast? like a crazy amount. to the point where we can fire off 2 cure4's in the time it takes a whm to do 1 cure5. there is an issue here with that being crazy overpowered when you consider stuff like utsusemi or sleep, but it's something to toy with. maybe just lower the recast on cures?

I agree, although we really should get fencer for times when we're not /NIN or /DNC. I often find that I'm /DRK or /SCH in fights, having Fencer as a native JT would be handy.

I'm pretty big on HOT's for RDM, they fit right into our style. People keep seeing Regen as healing magic, it's not. The Regen series is enhancing magic and all rules apply, including the crazy long self casts with composure and the 80~90% bonus duration with Emp Armor on others. SE was cheap as hell for making Regen II as lv 75 spell, it should of been lv 60 wtih Regen's III-IV being given by 90. They then need to create a special RDM only Regen that is incredibly potent and scales with enhancing magic, but only lasts 30s (10 ticks). This would be similar to SCH's helix's only a heal for PT members.

WHM would still have the raw cure power, but RDM could step in and support the WHM's much easier then me sprinkling cure IV's everywhere. I can see giving SCH cure V under Apend White, it would limit them enough that they couldn't access their DA abilities without wasting a charge. Then as a coupe de grace, make accession work with ALL enhancing magic period, end of story. Refresh II -ga, Haste ga, Regen III/IV -ga, Temper -ga, whatever it should work. Even RR-ga would be on the table due to the insane casting / recasting time it would involve.

[SpankWustler]

I'm not saying remove RDM and SCH from the healers list completely, but tone down their position so that WHM is still a consideration even when their curing ability is overkill, and give RDM and SCH more availability and viability in differing departments so that inviting any combination of these doesn't seem so counter-productive. (Same for giving WHM something to offer in lesser cure Demanding situations.) I'm in support of this for Melee jobs as well.

There shouldn't be any 'one right answer' to approach a situation, regardless of its difficulty. The idea of what makes an MMO so worthwhile is that it is so large and variant.

Ideally, I'd want a creative solution that would let all jobs with Healing and Enhancing ability work together for difficult content while also allowing any one of those jobs to fill the role for more laid-back content in a smaller group. I'm not really sure what kind of spells would accomplish this, but Cure IV forever is a pretty boring way to keep people alive when it is sufficient.

There's always going to be one choice that's better by some margin, since FFXI is built out of math equations. I'm fine with this as long as the options are appealing enough for it to feel like a choice.

[Hyrist]

"We need a white mage, nothing else will do". There's your variety, how do you like it?

Sounds a whole lot like the ToAU mentality that players never evolved out of, actually.

Except back then it was 'Red Mage'.

If some people insist on having one person to bear the responsibility (and therefore, the blame) for their healing duties, that is on them. For the 99 endgame, there needs to be a different role or niche to bring to the table for each job, or SE failed in the intent of their manifesto.

White Mage is "THE Healer.", and if elitists insist that means they the only way to do things, then they can watch their community shrink as the alternatives get larger and more enjoyable. Otherwise, as their are plenty of underused hybrid jobs in the game, the best way to assure the increase of their use is to tone back the general healing power of the base (Save for the healing specialist), and make a game that relies upon an intelligent defense rather than an overpowering healing or damage output.

Ideally, I'd want a creative solution that would let all jobs with Healing and Enhancing ability work together for difficult content while also allowing any one of those jobs to fill the role for more laid-back content in a smaller group. I'm not really sure what kind of spells would accomplish this, but Cure IV forever is a pretty boring way to keep people alive when it is sufficient.

There's always going to be one choice that's better by some margin, since FFXI is built out of math equations. I'm fine with this as long as the options are appealing enough for it to feel like a choice.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for people.

Gradual regeneration would be the answer to this circumstance. The biggest danager that would be the issue as far as keeping WHM in it's spot is the fact that it the most consistent burst healer in the game. Dancer has long timers on its heals, Soulsouther puppets have uncontrolled targeting, and Blue Mage has limited space/MP to use it with.

But any of these paired in with less intensity needed in curing is more than fine.

Where RDM and SCH can fill in, as it's a gap, is a sustained healing over time. The biggest standing concern really against Cure IV besides the hate is that we have to cast it over and over again to manage our gradual cure. So the solution would be of course to give us a stronger cure over time.

In other words: Regen.

The simple and most effective solution, in my view is this:

Give Regen III to Red Mage an Scholar both, make it Accessionable.

Then give Scholar a 'Curehelix' that restores HP exactly in the same fashion as a Helix spell does, but effected by Cure Potency gear on the initial tic.

Give RDM a Debuff to, at the very minimum, reduce the damage inflicted by TP moves. (Perhaps a fast cast, limiting recast spell that severely hampers the damage of the next enemy TP move).

If both of these factors are not enough to count them as "Viable" for long term healing, repeat the process with Regen IV for one or both of the jobs.

As far as Short term, spike healing, there are plenty of jobs now that have burst healing available, use them.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SCH has Regen III, also SCH should really get Regen IV and maybe even V way before WHM. I've never understood how they got Regen and Regen II earlier than WHM but not III or IV.

I like the helix idea for SCH, maybe as an idea to aid the party RDM could just get an Enhancing Spell like BLU's new new one that grants a set % of -Damage taken, maybe even stick to the Phalanx line and call it Phalanx III (party targetable).

[Hyrist]

I like the helix idea for SCH, maybe as an idea to aid the party RDM could just get an Enhancing Spell like BLU's new new one that grants a set % of -Damage taken, maybe even stick to the Phalanx line and call it Phalanx III (party targetable).

With Phalanx II as a merit spell, you'd have to remove the catagory and give us the spell natively for us to receive a tier III in all fairness.

Not that you'd hear me complain if that were the case, mind you.

But I would also like an Enfeeble that was straight damage reduction of a TP move, or other consequence to it that would give RDM's some leeway on these TP move Heavy mobs.

In any case, RDM's direction towards being a better 'healer' should really be more in preventing damage rather than curing it. But no augments here about them getting Regen IV. But lets leave the burst curing to the jobs that currently have it, and give SCH and RDM a more gradual recovery scale. It's likely the best way to increase their potential and not step on WHM's toes so much.

[Doombringer]

Ideally, I'd want a creative solution that would let all jobs with Healing and Enhancing ability work together for difficult content while also allowing any one of those jobs to fill the role for more laid-back content in a smaller group. I'm not really sure what kind of spells would accomplish this, but Cure IV forever is a pretty boring way to keep people alive when it is sufficient.

There's always going to be one choice that's better by some margin, since FFXI is built out of math equations. I'm fine with this as long as the options are appealing enough for it to feel like a choice.

INSPIRATION!!

you know that new earring that had "potency of cure effect RECIEVED +5%"? lets make that a spell! give it a strong duration, single targetable, and HEAVILY influenced by enhancing magic skill (this way if they decide to give it to whm later we may still have the "better" version) you put it on your tank, and huzzah!

then in a bigger group situation, this is still helpful even if you have a whm. you're helping him cure more efficiently. this also mitigates the issue of being as overpowered as giving rdm cure5 proper because you can't cast these bigger cures freely, you have to setup and "predict" who is going to be taking the damage. and if you end up "needing" it on 4-5 melees.. well.. then you get a whm?