Relic Adjustments - The balancing act

[AldielQuetz]

@Xellith: Agreed, effort to reward ratio is off the charts as far as imbalance.

I would like to see all relics and mythics at the VERY LEAST brought up to par in Weaponskill strength and effectiveness of Aftermath. And you know I'm right! Just look at Apoc, gear haste can be capped FOR FREE with ease by almost every job, even Dusk Gloves+1 got bumped to tier1 to help facilitate this, so that weapon needs work, OH WAIT! HAI They all do!

@Ahrana. Are you trolling? Majority bought through RMT and stealing????? No, please be serious in this thread.

For some of us, that spent years collecting coins 1 by 1 at a time, dreamed of the day that it would finally be done, had friends come and gone that helped farm or even gave up some currency of their own( oh hai Daywalker ftw my last 752 o bronze pieces) that kind of talk is a slap in the face. Look, we get it, more user friendly is what SE is after, they want to keep their player base, cool, I like all the new content, I even have an empy, it's rad thanks... But PLEASE recognize those players that spent every single hour of their free time farming in this game to achieve the ultimate weapon. Just give us the attention, we the loyal, we the hard working, we the adventures who truly are adventurers at heart, just give us what we ask for, the balance we deserve.

Is that too much to ask? Not better, equal.

Thank you.

[Ahrana]

@Xellith: Agreed, effort to reward ratio is off the charts as far as imbalance.

I would like to see all relics and mythics at the VERY LEAST brought up to par in Weaponskill strength and effectiveness of Aftermath. And you know I'm right! Just look at Apoc, gear haste can be capped FOR FREE with ease by almost every job, even Dusk Gloves+1 got bumped to tier1 to help facilitate this, so that weapon needs work, OH WAIT! HAI They all do!

Your argument would be better if you knew that the apoc aftermath effect counted as job ability haste and not gear haste. Kind of a wash since dark knights can cap JA haste with last resort, but it does help cover the time that it would be down.

@Ahrana. Are you trolling? Majority bought through RMT and stealing????? No, please be serious in this thread.

For some of us, that spent years collecting coins 1 by 1 at a time, dreamed of the day that it would finally be done, had friends come and gone that helped farm or even gave up some currency of their own( oh hai Daywalker ftw my last 752 o bronze pieces) that kind of talk is a slap in the face. Look, we get it, more user friendly is what SE is after, they want to keep their player base, cool, I like all the new content, I even have an empy, it's rad thanks... But PLEASE recognize those players that spent every single hour of their free time farming in this game to achieve the ultimate weapon. Just give us the attention, we the loyal, we the hard working, we the adventures who truly are adventurers at heart, just give us what we ask for, the balance we deserve.

Well, if you're slapped in the face then oh well. Fact is that it happened, and it happened a lot. Linkshells didn't sit up in Dragons Aery with bots to pass the time, that's how they bought (certain) members relics. Half the time they didn't want anything for themselves, they were just looking to sell the ebody, ridill, BB item, nhead, dring, hermies boots, etc. You can talk til you're blue in the face about how you earned your relic, and that may or may not be true. I do know people that earned relics that way, but I know more people that "earned" relics through non-traditional ways, or at least supplemented their income that way.

If you ask them they all say they did the "hard work" approach though. Funny how that works.

[AldielQuetz]

Well on our server we obviously didn't have the same RMT problem until really late in the game, but I do see what you are saying Ahrana, but the generalization was you used a word like most/every/etc so that's all I took offense at. But you have to realize that on Quetz it literally took years for something like what you are talking about(example: ppl selling ebody etc). In fact a LS from another server MOVED to ours since they would have little or no competition to sell abjurations and ridills et al.

Regardless, my point remains... The people like me, like I HOPE is the majority, collected coins from lvl 15 no sub, and on.. That spent literal years of their life, farming Alkys, farming PCCs, starting their own dynamis LS and supporting multiple relics simultaneously like the one I was in(PerfectAteraxia), these people, these quality characters, they deserve to see these weapons be reworked. Period.

[Wolfandre]

Now, I apologize if this has been said, but my internet is crawling right now (I'm blaming the earthquake...) so I didn't get to read everything.

You can't really give Excalibur an enmity bonus or Mandau a big crit bonus because everyone seems to forget that there are multiple jobs (RDM!) on both of these weapons. I know that an Excal RDM wouldn't necesarily want to be on top of the hate list after WS-ing. Go ahead and lawl at me for suggesting RDM melee (for the record, I do it all the time! ), but there are those that do it, and since RDM doesn't have a Relic/Empy of their own, we have to adapt.

It's real a wonder, the role RDM gets put in. I mean, they cannot even be classified by their Relic/Mythic/Emperean because they're main'd and better used on other jobs. Why go Almace on RDM when BLU gets more sword skill and DEX? Shame on any RDM that needs the MACC from Murgleis. Can RDM get a bone in the ultimate weapon department?

However, personal gripes aside, I'm down with the proposed changes. I never went Relic hunting, mostly because the WS's and aftermaths were so awful, it didn't seem worth my time. I support the changes.

[Byrth]

Your argument would be better if you knew that the apoc aftermath effect counted as job ability haste and not gear haste. Kind of a wash since dark knights can cap JA haste with last resort, but it does help cover the time that it would be down.

It gives you 10% Equipment haste, which is why Apoc users have 16% Haste aftermath sets.

Well, if you're slapped in the face then oh well. Fact is that it happened, and it happened a lot. Linkshells didn't sit up in Dragons Aery with bots to pass the time, that's how they bought (certain) members relics. Half the time they didn't want anything for themselves, they were just looking to sell the ebody, ridill, BB item, nhead, dring, hermies boots, etc. You can talk til you're blue in the face about how you earned your relic, and that may or may not be true. I do know people that earned relics that way, but I know more people that "earned" relics through non-traditional ways, or at least supplemented their income that way.

If you ask them they all say they did the "hard work" approach though. Funny how that works.

In the days of kings, I was in an event shell with well over a dozen relics that never camped kings. Dynamis, Salvage, Sea, Sky, Einherjar, Limbus, KS99s, Ouryu v2/Bahamut, etc. Most of the owners made their gil through crafting. The closest we came to HNM camping was camping Tiamat, which we did on a "your claim/camp, your drops" basis, or Ixion before there was stiff competition and spook wars. If they were RMTing, it wasn't to buy gil/relics but to sell.

Everyone in endgame (except people who don't camp anything) were called botters at one point or another in those days. Half of the times the accusations were accurate. Heck, I got called a botter at one point by an unabashed chinese RMT taru in sky because I claimed Ulli so quickly. Best botter to ever grace the PS2, if I don't say so myself!

Anyway, it doesn't matter what your opinion of past relic owners is. Lowering the effort required to get a relic (through the dynamis re-vamp) opens the door for many new potential relic owners who shouldn't be penalized for your opinion of their predecessors.



Also, why do RDMs want to melee but not do enough damage to take hate? Taking hate is a trivially easy task these days due to the way the Enmity system fails. If you aren't taking hate, then your damage sucks. Why would you melee if your damage sucks? I agree that none of the weapons are geared towards RDM melee, but the proposed changes to Mandau (letting Mercy Stroke crit without a forcing JA) and Excal (increasing add effect proc rate) would help them compete with Almace at least.

[SpankWustler]

demonic botting overlords of dragon's aery

I've been looking for a name for my progressive blackened death metal band for a while, and I finally found it! You just saved me from being the bass-player in "Satan's Butt".

I've never understood the argument of "some people do things in a manner of which I do not approve, and therefor [insert argument here]" in the context of FFXI. What some people choose to do socially shouldn't determine the numbers on items, in my opinion.

Anyway, the current method for obtaining a relic weapon is "repeatedly duo or trio dynamis with a few bros and bro-ettes" so should how people obtained them back in the day even matter?

[Atomic_Skull]

Your argument would be better if you knew that the apoc aftermath effect counted as job ability haste and not gear haste. Kind of a wash since dark knights can cap JA haste with last resort, but it does help cover the time that it would be down.

Oh, wow lol

[Cursed]

Oh, wow lol

wasn't always like that though. A way to start to fix apoc would be to undo what they did two years ago.


EDIT: I've been thinking a lot about Spharai. While I don't think they should beat their empyrean counterpart I do think SE can bring some traditional elements to MNK through them, without overshadowing mythic/empyrean.

If spharai could be given additional effects that grant stun/paralyze/ and a dot effect "bleed" I think the weapon would be far more appealing.
Idk, could make the additional effect be dependant on JAs you use.
for exampe
"Spharai Lv.99
Augments Focus - with focus up, melee attacks with spharai have a 40% chance of paralyzing target
Augments Perfect Counter - counters may inflict a wound and cause target to bleed for 2 minutes @ 20hp/tick.
Augments Impetus - with impetus up and spharai, attacks have a 40% chance of stunning target.

[Byrth]

wasn't always like that though. A way to start to fix apoc would be to undo what they did two years ago.

Are you sure? I think the only changes they made were adding the Haste cap and making Aftermath wear off if you switched weapons. You never needed an Apoc to hit 93.3% Haste on DRK, you just needed one to hit it without using a 2-hour (other than the DRK's). That's why Bahamut's Zaghnal zerging was momentarily popular.

Using Apoc would let you use Haste belt (10% magic Haste), which you could combine with BRD songs (20.5%) and Haste spell (15%) for capped magic Haste without SV. Not really practical outside zergs, but nice for zergs while it lasted I guess. For a while, you could also swap weapons (even to k-club, iirc) and maintain the 10% Haste aftermath.

[Cursed]

Are you sure? I think the only changes they made were adding the Haste cap and making Aftermath wear off if you switched weapons. You never needed an Apoc to hit 93.3% Haste on DRK, you just needed one to hit it without using a 2-hour (other than the DRK's). That's why Bahamut's Zaghnal zerging was momentarily popular.

Using Apoc would let you use Haste belt (10% magic Haste), which you could combine with BRD songs (20.5%) and Haste spell (15%) for capped magic Haste without SV. Not really practical outside zergs, but nice for zergs while it lasted I guess. For a while, you could also swap weapons (even to k-club, iirc) and maintain the 10% Haste aftermath.

Yeah I should have been a bit clearer - Remove the Haste cap for Apoc users like they removed the PDT/MDT cap for burtgang and Aegis.

But keep the "unequiping apoc causes aftermath to drop" as none of us want to see a return to 300% catos for KC SE/BW zergs. Always did my head in thinking of Apoc as an accessory for KC's