Relic Adjustments - The balancing act

[Alukat]

mandau needs longer aftermath and higher triple dmg proc rate.
crit dmg+x% might be good also or str+ on the weapon.
rudra's is dex based and there is plenty of dex+agi gear and some str+dex gear and almost no agi+str gear, what makes mercy stroke pretty weak during trick attack

[Meldity]

Gungnir - Dragoon is a hard one. They really only have two roles, DD and soloer. Drakesbane and Ryunohige are so good that it's not possible to modify Gungnir to be the best DD polearm while maintaining game balance. Because of that, we have to turn to solo. Fortunately, the weaponskill (as it stands) is horrendous in every way and I feel no regret totally remaking it to my specifications:
* Change the mods from 60% AGI to 40% DEX / 40% STR, in keeping with other DRG WSs.
* Instead of Shock Spikes, make the aftermath +20% Parrying rate and make the weapon restore HP to your Wyvern as Catastrophe restores it to the player.
* Make the "Additional Effect: Weakens Defense" on the relic its own category of debuff, so it stacks with Angon.

I appreciate the angon/weakens defense stack up suggestion but i'm pretty sure that's impossible for SE to do. Only way that would work is if it was an actual hidden effect for Geirskogul. And your suggestion to make it 40STR/40DEX% without an fSTR boost wouldn't improve it enough to keep on par with any other empyrean whatsoever and the notion itself is almost offensive. It's like your telling me to go build Ryunohige because Gugnir is hopeless to fix(Even though I got it before Ryunohige was even released, thanks for making my weapon incomparable to ryunohige SE). I think your missing the point that the only reason why empy's are so powerful to begin with is just because of the fact they have 'occassionally deals double damage' as an aftermath AND 'deals double damage' when they actually weaponskill.

The best part about this is the fact your suggesting 20% parry(wtf?) and were still considered a solo job when all of our job abilities are supposed to shed hate. Not only that but we have like NO DEFENSE except blood tanking from our wyvern, except the only problem is that when the wyvern dies so do we. Also 20 minutes just to summon the wyvern. Why does our wyvern have a 20 minute weakness time while our own bodies have 5 minutes is beyond me(Not like they don't get one-two shotted anyway from an AoE). Now tell me why I shouldn't just solo nearly every NM in the game on NIN instead of DRG? Oh wait, we can't.



Also if anyones wondering; no shock spikes does not stun at all, and even if it does it is more like less than 1% chance. I've done my trials in Bostinaeux leeches fighting up to 7-10 at a time and it was probably once every 10 minutes that I would actually see a leech get stunned from shock spikes.

[Byrth]

I appreciate the angon/weakens defense stack up suggestion but i'm pretty sure that's impossible for SE to do. Only way that would work is if it was an actual hidden effect for Geirskogul.

It's certainly not, and wouldn't be particularly hard to do. I'm sure they're busy making new HNMs that will be outdated in two patches though.

And your suggestion to make it 40STR/40DEX% without an fSTR boost wouldn't improve it enough to keep on par with any other empyrean whatsoever and the notion itself is almost offensive.

The best part about this is the fact your suggesting 20% parry(wtf?) and that we're still considered a solo job when all of our job abilities are supposed to shed hate. Not only that but we have like NO DEFENSE except blood tanking from our wyvern, except the only problem is that when the wyvern dies so do we. Also 20 minutes just to summon the wyvern. Why does our wyvern have a 20 minute weakness time while our own bodies have 5 minutes is beyond me(Not like they don't get one-two shotted anyway from an AoE). Now tell me why I shouldn't just solo nearly every NM in the game on NIN instead of DRG? Oh wait, we can't.

The point, which you may not have read, is to give your Wyvern HP and the improve your durability. 40% STR/DEX gives you better mods than Catastrophe with similar fTP. 20% Parrying gives you 20% physical negation that can proc on WSs. Healing your Wyvern stops them from dying. Your weapon would make you and your wyvern substantially more durable for solo purposes.

It's like you're telling me to go build Ryunohige because Gugnir is hopeless to fix(Even though I got it before Ryunohige was even released, thanks for making my weapon incomparable to ryunohige SE). I think you're missing the point. The only reason that Empyreans are so powerful is their 'occassionally deals double damage' aftermath AND 'deals double damage' when they actually weaponskill.

I'm actually not missing the point, and you don't actually know how Empyreans WSs work or what fSTR is. The "doubles damage" description just indicates that they have high fTP, the same way that Sidewinder's "deals quadruple damage" has for all these years. You got Gungnir when it looked like it was the best Dragoon polearm. That was at least four years ago.

If you want a DD polearm, you certainly should make Ryunohige. +15% Drakesbane damage and 50% OAT that stacks with WSs and Jumps make it the best polearm by a mile. Sorry that you bet on the wrong horse, but even before Ryunohige came out people weren't exactly singing the praises of Gungnir. Ryunohige is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, weapon in the game across all jobs including all Empyreans. We can't exactly go making Gungnir better than it.

Also if anyones wondering; no shock spikes does not stun at all, and even if it does it is more like less than 1% chance. I've done my trials in Bostinaeux leeches fighting up to 7-10 at a time and it was probably once every 10 minutes that I would actually see a leech get stunned from shock spikes.

This is pretty much what I had heard before, which is why I suggested changing the aftermath. Parrying doesn't really fit with dragoon, but it offers something that lets you conserve TP and not spend as much time casting Dia/Foot Kick or whatever you prefer. Alternatively, they could just make the shock spikes have higher magic accuracy and longer duration to let you get Dia/HP off between attack rounds easier.

[Nynja]

Also 20 minutes just to summon the wyvern. Why does our wyvern have a 20 minute weakness time while our own bodies have 5 minutes is beyond me(Not like they don't get one-two shotted anyway from an AoE).

IF you call your wyvern, then die in 20 minutes...your wyvern is at 0 recast, therefor no "weakness". Cmon man, youre smarter than this...

[Byrth]

Aegis - This is another easy fix. Comparing this shield to the power of the Empyrean shield, the proposed fix is not outrageous either.
* Make Aegis' Magic Damage Taken -% additive, yet separate from the gear/spell -Magic Damage Taken cap of 50%. This means that level 90 Aegis users would take -90% Magic damage.

We shall seeeeeeee~!

[Denabond]

The cap on magic damage sustainable with the shield "Aegis" equipped has been increased.

Well Aegis got something nice this update.

[DebbieGibson]

bump to this

[axlzero]

wow you did a lot of thinking into this i commend you but me i like to keep things simple so here is my fix

all one handed relics get trait attacks 3 to 5 times all two handed relics attack 2 to 3 times.

you forget aegis i would put 10 emnity on it, +100 hp, +100 mp, change magic dmg taken to -dmg taken and give it a counterbash ability on a sucessful block

as for gaga horn well im not a bard so someone else come up with something for it

[AldielQuetz]

100% Supporter of making Excalibur's additional damage increase enmity AND to add accuracy to the 1 handers and attack to the 2 handers AND 110% behind you when you said to make the Regen aftermath increase and add a refresh effect as well!

This is the kind of creative genius that SE needs! The original poster of this thread should be on SE's staff,

HANDS DOWN BEST THREAD EVAR.

Thank YOU Sir m(_ _)m

[Xellith]

SE devs talk about balance yet they have no idea what they are doing with regards to relic/mythic/empy weapons.

Difficulty:Reward ratio is skewed to badly with regards to these weapons its impossible to take the dev team seriously when they talk about said "balance".

Relics and Mythic should be much much more powerful.

Relics should be much more powerful with a higher DMG and better aftermath. Mythic should be on par with relics.

Empy should be SLIGHTLY easier to obtain with regard to collecting all those items at the end trials. Reduce the amount needed from 50 to 25. From 75 to 50. Bump up the NM difficulty so they cant just be easily low manned (hi to you masamune) and increase the number of NMs which must be hunted for these trials to start with.

But in the big picture im sure others can come up with better ideas than these. I just want it to be known that in my personal opinion relics should be very very powerful with the difficulty in obtaining them. Hell release a ring that corrosponds to each particular relic that when equiped your minimum WS is based off the level of the Monster you are fighting.

100-90 = 2k ws minimum
90-50 = 3k ws minimum
50-0 = 4k ws minimum

or SOMETHING

Most Relics and Mythics currently are not worth the time when you can just spend a few weeks getting an empy and have very similar results for only 1/100th the effort.