Idiocy

[DebbieGibson]

Yeah I edited my post.

Also I don't really see anywhere where you try to quantify mp drain. There is no mention of conserve MP or light arts mp reduction in your post. Perhaps my reading comprehension is suffering due to lack of sleep though so please point that out for me as well.

It's the 17% reduction on MP drain given to /sch that RDM does not enjoy. mpcost*.9*.92

[Raksha]

It's the 17% reduction on MP drain given to /sch that RDM does not enjoy. mpcost*.9*.92

Ah it was at the top, my bad. I was looking for it in the "meat" of the post.

[Monchat]

Af3 legs do not have refresh.......if you are refering to that converts mp cost to cure that is bascily a conserve Mp for cures...but very minimal, and often unoticable. it is ironicly in fact what are trying to acheive if you simply...sub sch in the 1st place..

ok so you are really trolling. AF3+2 leg, the best peice of the set, has unnoticable affect? I cure that monk for 1100 HP, 5% of 1100 is 55, therefore my cure V on cost me 80 MP, less than a cure IV, saving 40% of my MP. No, it doesnt work like conserve MP.

[Alhanelem]

Most of the stuff the OP says about SCH is BS. Also, he spends a full screen post with a topic title that makes it sound like the whole update sucks but spends most of the post telling us all about how much SCH sucks and will continue to suck.

Does SCH make bigger nukes than a BLM? Of course not. Does it do them more efficiently and is able to keep going when a BLM might have to slow down? Definitely. Funny, my helices don't "resist against most HNM." They work against anything any other elemental magic will work on. So unless that "HNM" is resistant to elemental magic in general, SCH is fine. Helices are only the most efficicent damage spells in the game, offer a lot of damage for low hate if you need that, and you can cast other spells while the helix is working.

Give us a break. Most of the adjustment contents were pretty good. THF did kind of get the shaft, but the ability could end up being good depending on its parameters.

[Neonii]

Do you realize that whm/rdm runs out much faster due to everythign costing full? it may "look" like they have twice the pool but they go through as fast as just having one. the time it takes in the same situation that a whm/rdm runs out of mp, converts and runs out again, a proper whm/sch will still have over half mp, i have both subs and have played around with both. /sch wins, hands down, not discussing this crap again. i don't expect people know how to use WHM properly. hence my statment eariler that if you don't see the disadvantages of /rdm you won't ever.

As a budding whm why dont you point us to where you went into this in detail? And while you are at it explain how to use whm properly? I'm not trolling btw 90% of my time is spent on smn but i'm still working on whm and am interested in all anyone has to say. Made inquiry in whm boards awhile back and got nice responses. The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement so im interested in what you have to say. Post a link?

[MarkovChain]

It's the 17% reduction on MP drain given to /sch that RDM does not enjoy. mpcost*.9*.92

It means that whenever /rdm uses 6 spells, /sch uses 5 spells. How can this be anywhere close to having 2x the same MP pool ? Also refresh is a sublimation that doesn't suck or equivalentely sublimation is a refresh that sucks. /sch will only perform better if you never deplete your MP pool which means there is not much pressure on the WHM so who cares what SJ.

[DebbieGibson]

It means that whenever /rdm uses 6 spells, /sch uses 5 spells. How can this be anywhere close to having 2x the same MP pool ? Also refresh is a sublimation that doesn't suck or equivalentely sublimation is a refresh that sucks. /sch will only perform better if you never deplete your MP pool which means there is not much pressure on the WHM so who cares what SJ.

It depends on the speed at which you deplete your MP. /sch is only better than /rdm in mp virility(lol) when you have external forms of mp regeneration, either via aspir, atma, or relic ballads.(and at the same time only when you are using more than 25mp/3seconds, if less than that then sub is irrelevant if you have external MP sources.)

Also when talking about this convert isn't thought of as 2x the mp pool, that would be referring to types of events where it is impossible to sustain your mp or where you don't care or want to sustain your mp like a zerg. The 2x mp pool that comes from /rdm is a source of refresh in my earlier post.


My math can probably be improved upon if you had a better model that more closely fit how the game actually plays. I'm too lazy to do such a thing though. Maybe some /sch zealot will come along and give us a better understanding.

[MarkovChain]

Convert must not be considered a source of refresh because you never convert every 10 minutes (anymore). You just spam cure 5/6 and convert if out of MP. But even if you ever find something where converting every 10' is required it is clearly a lot better than /sch.

Of course if vortex sole activity (most likely) is being the dual boxed WHM of a MNK/WAR I guess he doesn't exactly now what WHM is. It's kinda supposed to keep at least 6 persons alive at the same time (hasted + mob dia'ed, barpsells up). There used to be a time where people played in parties and such. In this case you look dumb with your /sch when you run out of MP on a 10' NM fight.

[Vortex]

Wrong sir, please sea my post above. The only reason /sch works is because of aspir or atma. Without those /rdm is more efficient. So make your decision based on area and mobs.

LOL and because of conserve MP and 300+ sublimation and 10% reduction on cost. and hell even enfeeling gets a boost.
very rarely do i even use aspir and only time i do is probably outside but that is a good find, /sch is far more effecient,

and unlike what some retard said casting 5 spells instead of 6 is not an accuracte reason this person has obviously never subed sch outside of abyssea. and seal nms. don't follow that example.

Try the damn sub over time you will see. i am not going to keep going through this. /rdm is garbage, period. if you are so desparate for that convert that you don't need then by all means. i have givin up on whms knowing what they are doing long time ago. and getting more into it now is just getting more annoying.

Just remember, the moment you convert, you already ran out of mp. thus you prooved why it sucks. in the mean time the /sch still has over half there Mp and more then likly sublimations most of the mp back and still doing it.
it is always funny watchinng a whm/rdm convert and get to the point they are about to run out of mp again and i havn't even diped below 600 mp yet, with a full sublimation bar.

You are not factoring conserve Mp the MP saved from the natrual 10% Mp reduction cost + the conserve MP trait it self. because conserve mp is a trait that randomly activatesi am not going to keep going in ciricles about /rdm's shittiness. actually TRY /sch for a while and watch instead of /rdm only and taking guesses. untill then i will continue to snicker at every /rdm going through there pool and converting while i'm still over half my mp if the fight is draining that much MP,

Nice to see abyssea still breeding brain dead whms.

When more content comes outsides you will defintly see what is wrong, but since abyssea is just constant refresh it matters little. but if you want to stick to /rdm you won't be able to fuction outside abyssea unless there is more then one whm with you.

In summery, abyssea has spoiled alot of people as is, you can probably even get away with whm/dnc and still keep MP so untill abyssea craze is over, i think this problem will persist.

[DebbieGibson]

LOL and because of conserve MP and 300+ sublimation and 10% reduction on cost. and hell even enfeeling gets a boost.
very rarely do i even use aspir and only time i do is probably outside but that is a good find, /sch is far more effecient,

and unlike what some retard said casting 5 spells instead of 6 is not an accuracte reason this person has obviously never subed sch outside of abyssea. and seal nms. don't follow that example.

Try the damn sub over time you will see. i am not going to keep going through this. /rdm is garbage, period. if you are so desparate for that convert that you don't need then by all means. i have givin up on whms knowing what they are doing long time ago. and getting more into it now is just getting more annoying.

Just remember, the moment you convert, you already ran out of mp. thus you prooved why it sucks. in the mean time the /sch still has over half there Mp and more then likly sublimations most of the mp back and still doing it.
it is always funny watchinng a whm/rdm convert and get to the point they are about to run out of mp again and i havn't even diped below 600 mp yet, with a full sublimation bar.

You are not factoring conserve Mp the MP saved from the natrual 10% Mp reduction cost + the conserve MP trait it self. because conserve mp is a trait that randomly activatesi am not going to keep going in ciricles about /rdm's shittiness. actually TRY /sch for a while and watch instead of /rdm only and taking guesses. untill then i will continue to snicker at every /rdm going through there pool and converting while i'm still over half my mp if the fight is draining that much MP,

Nice to see abyssea still breeding brain dead whms.

When more content comes outsides you will defintly see what is wrong, but since abyssea is just constant refresh it matters little. but if you want to stick to /rdm you won't be able to fuction outside abyssea unless there is more then one whm with you.

In summery, abyssea has spoiled alot of people as is, you can probably even get away with whm/dnc and still keep MP so untill abyssea craze is over, i think this problem will persist.

As long as I have a post with math backing up my position and you only post conjecture, you are incorrect. Facts > opinion. If you had actually read my post, you would have seen that outside abyssea is exactly where /rdm is superior to /sch.