Idiocy

[Vortex]

Do you factor in the fact that whm/rdm has a mp pool at leasr twice higher than whm/sch due to convert¿

Do you realize that whm/rdm runs out much faster due to everythign costing full? it may "look" like they have twice the pool but they go through as fast as just having one. the time it takes in the same situation that a whm/rdm runs out of mp, converts and runs out again, a proper whm/sch will still have over half mp, i have both subs and have played around with both. /sch wins, hands down, not discussing this crap again. i don't expect people know how to use WHM properly. hence my statment eariler that if you don't see the disadvantages of /rdm you won't ever.

[DebbieGibson]

I did the math on this at 75 comparing rdm and whm/sch. I do not see how it could have changed since.

[Vortex]

I did the math on this at 75 comparing rdm and whm/sch. I do not see how it could have changed since.

oh wow, really, 75, cause you know new gear was never added, and stats/ mp never increased. yes it is EXACLTY the same at 75.

pssst it was better at 75 to.

you're a funny troll.

[Monchat]

oh wow, really, 75, cause you know new gear was never added, and stats/ mp never increased. yes it is EXACLTY the same at 75.

pssst it was better at 75 to.

you're a funny troll.

By the way if you don't aggree with vortex you are trolling. And if you keep argueing he doesn't know what to say.

Seriously... the situation is not the same since you have convert unlike previosuly at 75. Why do you keep ignoring convert.

lol what? MP pool is like the most useless thing ever, other than in initial idle gear if you're that hardcore. Gear? What? WHM can't use RDM gear you know.

Look at it this way: Light Arts saves you 22 MP per Cure VI, and 13 MP per Cure V. If Refresh nets you that much MP when you have to spam those spells, then I'll be a monkey's uncle. Honestly, I don't think that Convert every 10 minutes will net you that much MP either. Not that it matters when you have Sublimation which is a good 350mp, and 3~7 refresh in gear.

two things. first if MP is irrelevant why are we having this discussion? nobody cares about SJ in abyssea you have infinite MP. I almost never use convert in abyssea either so i could be SJ less and be fine.

Now in situations where you will easilly run out of MP... its still hard to imagine that you will run out of Mp with the amounts of MP regeneration that exists [6 autorfresh gear very easy to get, AF3 legs, refresh2, ballads or cor rolls....].

But imagine you are curebombing without serious MP regeneration. Both will do what? 15 cure Vs max? SCH will save you 200MP, but the whm/rdm has 1200 more mp to use. Then your argument just become useless, as its obvious that /sch will run out early, due to having twice less MP. unless you find me a mysterious ability that reduces cure cost by 50% constantly from sch?

In abyssea you can pretty much get away with any sub. it's outside is where you see the biggest diffrence, some fights however, can be very draining. try curing a MNK/WAR vs empousa or indrik for example..

BLm can refresh them selves, unless they are subbing whm for some odd, dumb reason outside procing.

In abbysea sj doesn't matter, yes, yet you give an example inside abbyssea. By the way, empousa, seriously? Are you kidding me? What is hard about that mob? And indrik? You cannot cure a MNK/WAR solo as WHM/RDM?

You have to be trolling, I don't know what to say.

[Vortex]

By the way if you don't aggree with vortex you are trolling. And if you keep argueing he doesn't know what to say.

Seriously... the situation is not the same since you have convert unlike previosuly at 75. Why do you keep ignoring convert.

Yes that is EXACLTY what i'm doing, now, ignoring your idiodic comment i didn't respond to him becaus eit's obvious he's trolling unless he is incredibly retarded. Convert means shit, i even explained that already read the damn posts, the redcuded Mp cost from light arts + Conserve Mp trait, +sublimation ( i guess you forgot that? the irony..) will outweigh that convert and here is the biggest kicker... convert is a 10 minute recast. you're up shit hill if it runs out during that cool down where as /sch will keep on kicking. but a proper whm/sch will not have Mp issues.

I'm not ignoring convert, it simply just dosn't matter since i have been thru this same argument/debate with every whm/rdm who thinks since they burned it to 90 or play it once a year they "know better" /rdm does not compete..not sure how many ways i can beat it into people's head but this is the curse of the player base. take it for what you will.

two things. first if MP is irrelevant why are we having this discussion? nobody cares about SJ in abyssea you have infinite MP. I almost never use convert in abyssea either so i could be SJ less and be fine.

Again, you didn't read any other post did you? i already explained this. sub matters very little in abyssea, but SOME fights you WILL run into issues. (there is that read again)

Now in situations where you will easilly run out of MP... its still hard to imagine that you will run out of Mp with the amounts of MP regeneration that exists [6 autorfresh gear very easy to get, AF3 legs, refresh2, ballads or cor rolls....].

Af3 legs do not have refresh.......if you are refering to that converts mp cost to cure that is bascily a conserve Mp for cures...but very minimal, and often unoticable. it is ironicly in fact what are trying to acheive if you simply...sub sch in the 1st place..

you won't always have the luxery of a brd and cor in the same party all the time. and as /rdm you most defiantly will need both to keep up MP in difficult fights.

But imagine you are curebombing without serious MP regeneration. Both will do what? 15 cure Vs max? SCH will save you 200MP, but the whm/rdm has 1200 more mp to use. Then your argument just become useless, as its obvious that /sch will run out early, due to having twice less MP. unless you find me a mysterious ability that reduces cure cost by 50% constantly from sch?

You defaintly have no idea how to properly use WHM, if you think it is a "200 mp" diffrence. this was a very dumb response if you don't understand the combined value of Mp being saved over time of EVERY spell you cast under light arts. i have whmed for the last 5 years and have had my share of many cure bombed fights and have came out just fine. the ONLY close call i EVER had with MP was when i was curing a MNK/NIN on indrik who had no PDT set or was to busy wasting time with shadows and that is because i didn't have time to sublimation due to constant cure bombing, the amount of Mp i spent a /rdm would have ran dry a long time ago. and i didn't even run out of mp i got down to 300 mp before he finnaly got one shotted. and if he hadn't sucked would have actually killed it because it was at 10% when he died /rdm will NEVER be able to keep up with what i went through that day.

In abbysea sj doesn't matter, yes, yet you give an example inside abbyssea. By the way, empousa, seriously? Are you kidding me? What is hard about that mob? And indrik? You cannot cure a MNK/WAR solo as WHM/RDM?

it's abyssea... (you're lack of reading skills again), i didnt say i couldnt cure one as whm/rdm but since it is an inferior sub to /sch i never had a reason to use it. i don't even go below 1k mp when solo healing a mnk on empousa. try again.

You have to be trolling, I don't know what to say.

Trolling and speaking facts are 2 diffrent things. you must be trolling if you want to put it that way.

[Monchat]

Af3 legs do not have refresh.......if you are refering to that converts mp cost to cure that is bascily a conserve Mp for cures...but very minimal, and often unoticable. it is ironicly in fact what are trying to acheive if you simply...sub sch in the 1st place..

ok so you are really trolling. AF3+2 leg, the best peice of the set, has unnoticable affect? I cure that monk for 1100 HP, 5% of 1100 is 55, therefore my cure V on cost me 80 MP, less than a cure IV, saving 40% of my MP. No, it doesnt work like conserve MP.

[MarkovChain]

Do you realize that whm/rdm runs out much faster due to everythign costing full? it may "look" like they have twice the pool but they go through as fast as just having one. the time it takes in the same situation that a whm/rdm runs out of mp, converts and runs out again, a proper whm/sch will still have over half mp, i have both subs and have played around with both. /sch wins, hands down, not discussing this crap again. i don't expect people know how to use WHM properly. hence my statment eariler that if you don't see the disadvantages of /rdm you won't ever.

Facepalm.jpg

[Neonii]

Do you realize that whm/rdm runs out much faster due to everythign costing full? it may "look" like they have twice the pool but they go through as fast as just having one. the time it takes in the same situation that a whm/rdm runs out of mp, converts and runs out again, a proper whm/sch will still have over half mp, i have both subs and have played around with both. /sch wins, hands down, not discussing this crap again. i don't expect people know how to use WHM properly. hence my statment eariler that if you don't see the disadvantages of /rdm you won't ever.

As a budding whm why dont you point us to where you went into this in detail? And while you are at it explain how to use whm properly? I'm not trolling btw 90% of my time is spent on smn but i'm still working on whm and am interested in all anyone has to say. Made inquiry in whm boards awhile back and got nice responses. The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement so im interested in what you have to say. Post a link?