[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Ketaru]

And buffing BST pets ... wtfo. That's for the BST discussion not the RDM one, take it over there.

If the people in charge want to think the job will become overpowered if they give it a lot of buffs that makes them even more independent than they are now, fine, I'll let them think that.

That's why I suggested, in the interest of job balance, that maybe some enhancements can come in the form of enhancements provided by other jobs, to encourage cooperation between players. RDM seems like as good a choice as any for this.

But I suppose that is to be expected from you, since all you think Enhancing magic ought to be good for is melee.

[Supersun]

If the people in charge want to think the job will become overpowered if they give it a lot of buffs that makes them even more independent than they are now, fine, I'll let them think that.

That's why I suggested, in the interest of job balance, that maybe some enhancements can come in the form of enhancements provided by other jobs, to encourage cooperation between players. RDM seems like as good a choice as any for this.

But I suppose that is to be expected from you, since all you think Enhancing magic ought to be good for is melee.

To be fair he does have a point. You aren't as much asking for Red Mage to get pet buffs as you are for Pet jobs to get more pet buffs in general. There's nothing about Rdm in particular that screams that we should get new pet buffs exclusively (and if anything I'd think Bards would be the best candidate for them).

Asking for more pet specific buffs is better suited for a pet job forum and would probably reach SE's ears a lot easier then posting your ideas here.

Not that I think adding more pet exclusive buffs is that great of an idea anyway. I mean do we really need any more of them when the current existing ones aren't even used?

What really needs to be looked at is how when buffs start entering the picture that only half of a pet jobs damage is increased while every other job skyrockets ahead.

I can understand SE's concerns with buffing pet jobs. I mean pet jobs would clobber dedicated DDs if both the master and the pet received the full power of every buff the master received in high buff situations.

I think the real issue lies in the attack speed of pets compared to fully buffed players. It's not as much all buffs as it is Haste. Players suddenly gain a +500% damage increase with 80% haste while pets still stay the same.

One solution might be to add a job trait that transfers a portion of the masters delay reduction to the pet as well. Not the full amount necessarily since a 80% hasted sheep would pretty much murder everything that lives and breaths while being disposable.

Either way what pet jobs really are asking for is for their pets to scale in power along with players so that Bsts have more of a place in high buff scenarios. I don't think pet exclusive buffs are the best way to accomplish this though and other alternatives should be considerded.

-----

it' be nice if maybe we could get something "official" stated regarding the future of RDM other than our lolEnhancing?

Doesn't really matter to me since I'll take what they say with a gain of salt until I actually see them follow through myself.

-----

Edit: Can we stop treating that triangle at the bottom of everyone's post like a ratedown button. We do NOT need to start a post banning gang war between the pro and anti melee crowd as all it's going to accomplish is essentially erasing this thread.

[saevel]

If the people in charge want to think the job will become overpowered if they give it a lot of buffs that makes them even more independent than they are now, fine, I'll let them think that.

That's why I suggested, in the interest of job balance, that maybe some enhancements can come in the form of enhancements provided by other jobs, to encourage cooperation between players. RDM seems like as good a choice as any for this.

But I suppose that is to be expected from you, since all you think Enhancing magic ought to be good for is melee.

Your advocating a buff to pet jobs on a RDM update thread. While the idea isn't a bad one, and I do agree pet jobs need fixed, this is not the place to do so. And kindly GTFO with the strawman arguments. At no point in time did I EVER say enhancing was for melee only, I said it was critical for a melee build and that SE should pursue that route for potential melee buffs. Our enhancing spells are as follows,

Enspells -> Melee orientated
Phalanx -> Melee orientated, although can apply to any situation where your getting beat on
Aquaveil -> same as Phalanx
Spikes -> Melee orientated similar to Phalanx
Barspells -> generic resistance, WHM's overshadows us so much it's not funny
Gain Spells -> generic stat up, once Gain-STR / DEX are out then it effects both sides equally
Stoneskin -> easy to cap with half enhancing magic

Then
Haste / Refresh / Regen / Blink -> just as effective at 0 enhancing as at 426 enhancing.

I'm fairly sure everyone can see where this is going. Outside Gain-INT / Gain-MND SE simply hasn't given us any magic enhancing spells that actually use enhancing magic. This goes back to the "mage only" RDM's who leveled it for merits and gear. They have absolute sh!t enhancing magic and won't macro swap to case whatever little spells they do cast. As enhancing is notoriously annoying to cap, these people have ~zero~ interest in any adjustment that would force them to go out and cap enhancing magic.

Now please continue the trolling.

[cidbahamut]

Our enhancing spells are as follows,

Enspells -> Melee orientated
Phalanx -> General purpose
Aquaveil -> General purpose
Spikes -> General purpose
Barspells -> General purpose
Gain Spells -> General purpose
Stoneskin -> General purpose

You can make the case for enhancing magic being more important for melee, but please don't pretend that anything in that list other than enspells is melee oriented.

This goes back to the "mage only" RDM's who leveled it for merits and gear. They have absolute sh!t enhancing magic and won't macro swap to case whatever little spells they do cast. As enhancing is notoriously annoying to cap, these people have ~zero~ interest in any adjustment that would force them to go out and cap enhancing magic.

Now please continue the trolling.

What do full AF idiot RDMs have to do with anything?

[Rayik]

You can make the case for enhancing magic being more important for melee, but please don't pretend that anything in that list other than enspells is melee oriented.

Ok, I gotta ask. How on earth are self-only spells like Phalanx, Spikes, and SS "general purpose" when they directly deal with something being in melee range and pummeling you? Bar spells I can sort of see being useful at all times, but those other ones literally have no effect unless you are in melee-range with a mob. Maybe Phalanx and SS against some AoE attacks, but Spikes?

What do full AF idiot RDMs have to do with anything?

This goes for both sides of the argument. Idiot players are not job-specific in this game. I've seen some RDM's melee'ing in full AF1, single-wielding, and it makes me want to pull my hair out. I know, I know, it's their money and they can play how they want, but they're doing more to hurt our melee cause than help it.

[cidbahamut]

Ok, I gotta ask. How on earth are self-only spells like Phalanx, Spikes, and SS "general purpose" when they directly deal with something being in melee range and pummeling you? Bar spells I can sort of see being useful at all times, but those other ones literally have no effect unless you are in melee-range with a mob. Maybe Phalanx and SS against some AoE attacks, but Spikes?

Being in melee range is not the same thing as meleeing. As you mentioned yourself, Phalanx and Stoneskin act as damage mitigation, which is always useful. It's less about meleeing, and more about having hate. If you're gonna have hate, you may as well get some free damage from spike spells, and a free effect as well for two of the three options. Spike spells are pretty niche any way you slice it though, since unless you're soloing, chances are you won't have a mob wailing on you all the time. But I was under the impression that the never-ending melee discussion was more in the context of a party scenario rather than solo.

This goes for both sides of the argument. Idiot players are not job-specific in this game. I've seen some RDM's melee'ing in full AF1, single-wielding, and it makes me want to pull my hair out. I know, I know, it's their money and they can play how they want, but they're doing more to hurt our melee cause than help it.

Agreed. Idiots will be idiots no matter what job they exit the mog house as. So I'm understandably perplexed as to why saevel would bring them up at all.