[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Necromage]

Ok maybe this is off topic; but back on the subject of spells (just have an idea that would maybe be nice?).

Have like a reverse stun enhancing spell for rdm. Instead of stunning the monster, rdm has a spell that casts almost instantly, and creates say like a 90% damage reduction for the next hit the person was going to take. Recast similar to stun as well.

Another spell that was mentioned somewhere was a spell like Regen, but made like a helix kinda so it only has like 5-10 tics, but cures for 100 - 200 hp a tic?

I dunno just throwing stuff out there.

[SpankWustler]

The question I'm wondering is how would any of you feel about that if the update announcement came and this was the main bullet point?

"- Red Mage will be receiving exciting new spells designed to augment the effectiveness of another player's pets."

I know this isn't what you mean, but lowering a monster's defense and evasion through enfeebling spells is already pretty awesome for a Beast Master's pets. Well, until the day Beast Masters develop the animal husbandry skills required to make rabbits and ladybugs eat pizza.

So, stronger enfeebling magic of that sort would benefit pets by virtue of actually affecting them. If things had gone in a different direction long ago and crippling the monster was as beneficial as enhancing other players, I think pet jobs would be in a much better place right now.

Things are what things are, though, and I can't imagine that even happening for anybody to react to it. The only thing I can say for sure is that there would be RAGE if the spells had to be cast on the pets themselves an not the players controlling them.

I just skimmed the last couple of pages, but I saw the word "Wise" scroll past a few times. I have no idea why anyone would see any part of that set as an indication of anything. The only idea to be gotten from that junk is that there was a dark time when some folks at SE had no idea how to make a piece of equipment.

[Supersun]

Read one post up =/.

To be fair, that post didn't exist yet when I started writing mine.

Wow...really? You don't make use of an enhancing set except for enspells? Are you for real?

I'd appreciate not being straw manned.

[cidbahamut]

You made it pretty clear you thought an enhancing set did more for melee than for mage work. I'd say it's about even, so saying enhancing skill gear is there specifically to help your melee capabilities is kind of silly.

[Neisan_Quetz]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

[Seriha]

Which is why I tend to advocate RDM's martial buffs come through self-cast spells with an MP cost prohibitive enough to leave them incapable of main healing or nuking like a BLM. An emergency cure and MB here and there, yes, but the fear the job would be the only one people would ever level then is rather unfounded, as being limited to sword and dagger is own kind of restriction.

[SpankWustler]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

To expand on this...

Even if there were, given how casting stops auto-attacking cold, I don't see it doing very well. There's a reason beyond MP that Dark Knights don't bother casting most of the time, and a degree of delay reduction that makes even physical Blue Magic eschew more damage than it would produce. FFXI's battle system isn't designed to be friendly towards casting while engaged, and that's unlikely to change.

Oddly enough, this ties into what Seriha just said. The dude's right that adding a high MP cost, very long duration buff would be the best (reasonable) boon Red Mage melee could get. The spell would have to be so extreme to bring the job up to 50/50 or make it's melee contribution valuable or whatever standard the "hit things with things" camp holds, though, I can't imagine what it could be much less that such a spell would actually be added.

[Quetzacoatl]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

BLU with an Almace says hi? Considering they're only geared for Frontline and not anything else.

[Supersun]

You made it pretty clear you thought an enhancing set did more for melee than for mage work. I'd say it's about even, so saying enhancing skill gear is there specifically to help your melee capabilities is kind of silly.

Except that it helps melee more?

If you are backlining all your enhancing set is going to help you with is Phalanx, Barspells, and Gain-Spells. It's certainly nice to be able to bump up your spells power up a bit, but if you were to leave your enhancing set in your MH no one's going to really care.

Forgetting your enhancing set when meleeing as Rdm on the other hand is about as bad as a DD forgetting his WS set. You are going to lose 10% to 20% dps from the lack of potency on those enspells and more importantly accuracy.

and besides... you said

Wow...really? You don't make use of an enhancing set except for enspells? Are you for real?

I didn't say anything even remotely close to that. All I said is that enhancing magic does more for melee then magic, but apparently everyone who talks about Rdm melee is automatically a gimp noob that melees in errant and casts in DD gear.

You say that SE should work on a jobs strengths, but isn't Rdm's strength being a well rounded generalist able to fill any hole necessary with a minor niche in enfeebling?

Doesn't it make sense that we rally for some form of a melee buff to enhance our weakness to amplify our greatest strength of being a generalist?

Of course at the same time it's not that any of these things are mutually exclusive. Enhancing both Red Mage's melee and enhancing their enfeebling isn't going to create some overpowered job.

The problem is that you aren't actually listening to what we say. If you are still saying stuff like...

For meleeing on Red Mage to be viable in the metagame

then either you are taking Duelle's opinion to reflect that of us all or you just aren't paying attention.

Really, the greatest danger to Red Mage isn't a melee buff or a mage buff. It's people that say that Red Mage is fine and doesn't need anything. Abyssea has shown us what Red Mage looks like if the game continues on its power curve (albeit abyssea is slightly exaggerated vision). If people continue to preach that Red Mage will be fine other jobs are going to continue zooming past us on the way to 99 until Red Mage becomes even more lulworthy then when the job was first released.

I can't think of any other job that has received less than Red Mage with the break of the level cap so far. Rdm's nuking has improved, has gain spells, and refresh II. If this is only what's in store for us for the rest of the game then I think many people will be surprised at what Red Mage will be delegated to at 99.

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Edit:

I would like “Ni” and “San” upgrades added to enfeebling ninjutsu.

If we are to add upgrades to ninjutsu, we would like them to be learned as merit points similar to red mage, so we will look into this during our adjustment of merit points.

[Ketaru]

If things had gone in a different direction long ago and crippling the monster was as beneficial as enhancing other players, I think pet jobs would be in a much better place right now.

Things are what things are, though, and I can't imagine that even happening for anybody to react to it.

"Things are what things are, though" is pretty recurring theme of this thread, and while it is arguably appropriate to use here for RDM, it is that kind of mindset that I think got my other job into such a mess in the first place.

For years and years, BSTs told themselves that the job is fine so long as it can solo things. And looking at some of the comments over on that forum:

If you are adding onto what a bst can bring to a party then this is fine with me.
BUT if you are considering taking away a bst's ability to solo, I am against this new direction. And the majority of the bst community will be as well.

It looks like some of them are still perfectly happy with being the job that mindlessly throws NPCs at mobs, even as the rest of the playerbase can see the gaping holes and shortcomings of it. It got a pretty big boost with the introduction of Abyssea, but in the end, the boost only makes it so even the most undergeared player can do modest damage.

Our pets don't receive buffs from other players aside from COR (which has all kinds of limitations on its own that spellcasters don't have). And we have a lot of potential flexibility that goes wasted by an ability system that takes all the worst points of PUP and SMN with none of the advantages. It has no interactivity with other jobs aside from being a low maintenance damage dealer. But at least we can solo Cerberus in exchange for a Fort Knox worth of fodder and food. And that's all that matters, right?!

Everything some of you have said about how the spells I would like need to be casted on the master itself and it'll work on the pet through that. But unfortunately, as you said, it's unlikely we'll ever see such an update. And the latest Dev Q & A in that forum just makes me all the more disappointed by how mum they stay on the subject of just how they want to actually want to integrate the job into the group setting.

All well, at least my idea for new RDM spells has been put out there. I really think that, coupled with competent updates to the target jobs themselves, they could be potential game changers as well as add a type of support to the game that is under-served and unexplored.