[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Duelle]

Doesn't it make sense that we rally for some form of a melee buff to enhance our weakness to amplify our greatest strength of being a generalist?

Except we go back to the point where generalist design doesn't work in MMORPGs. Multi-classing (AKA the subjob system) and gear were supposed to help alleviate that, but it's not been enough due to many reasons already covered.

It looks like some of them are still perfectly happy with being the job that mindlessly throws NPCs at mobs, even as the rest of the playerbase can see the gaping holes and shortcomings of it. It got a pretty big boost with the introduction of Abyssea, but in the end, the boost only makes it so even the most undergeared player can do modest damage.

Our pets don't receive buffs from other players aside from COR (which has all kinds of limitations on its own that spellcasters don't have). And we have a lot of potential flexibility that goes wasted by an ability system that takes all the worst points of PUP and SMN with none of the advantages. It has no interactivity with other jobs aside from being a low maintenance damage dealer. But at least we can solo Cerberus in exchange for a Fort Knox worth of fodder and food. And that's all that matters, right?!

So I guess complacency and fear of change is not unique to the RDM forums. Color me surprised. Not kidding, either.

[Supersun]

Except we go back to the point where generalist design doesn't work in MMORPGs.

Generalists work when in numbers they put the specialist to shame, but actually striking a balance between a generalist and a specialist is a near impossible task that realistically has to rely more on how content is developed then how the jobs are balanced themselves.

[SpankWustler]

"Things are what things are, though" is pretty recurring theme of this thread, and while it is arguably appropriate to use here for RDM, it is that kind of mindset that I think got my other job into such a mess in the first place.

For years and years, BSTs told themselves that the job is fine so long as it can solo things. And looking at some of the comments over on that forum...

I don't really see it as the same argument, even though it's the same statement. To make Red Mage as viable a melee as it is a spell-caster, multiple elements of the job would require radical additions and even then it would be swimming against the current of FFXI's battle system. That kind of goal just doesn't seem reachable, in a big part because it goes beyond the job itself.

The changes to Beast Master would be as simple as job abilities that forfeit pet and master survivability for offense, but the anti-social elements in the Beast Master community would never ask for something that's actually useful. I swear, for people who like to be alone they sure talk a lot. Which bugs me as well to be honest, since I like the aesthetics of the job so much that I leveled it.

Of course, if the goal is just "stuff better than current en-spells by a large margin", I'm sure nobody would complain about Red Mage gaining a few more self-buffs for the purpose of hitting things with things. Well, I probably would complain if they did that instead of adding new enfeebling magic, but the new team seems to at least WANT to add stuff so I guess they would do both.

[Neisan_Quetz]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

[SpankWustler]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

To expand on this...

Even if there were, given how casting stops auto-attacking cold, I don't see it doing very well. There's a reason beyond MP that Dark Knights don't bother casting most of the time, and a degree of delay reduction that makes even physical Blue Magic eschew more damage than it would produce. FFXI's battle system isn't designed to be friendly towards casting while engaged, and that's unlikely to change.

Oddly enough, this ties into what Seriha just said. The dude's right that adding a high MP cost, very long duration buff would be the best (reasonable) boon Red Mage melee could get. The spell would have to be so extreme to bring the job up to 50/50 or make it's melee contribution valuable or whatever standard the "hit things with things" camp holds, though, I can't imagine what it could be much less that such a spell would actually be added.

[Quetzacoatl]

There is no job in FFXI that has equal magic/melee aspects, they all have drawbacks in one way or another.

BLU with an Almace says hi? Considering they're only geared for Frontline and not anything else.

[Neisan_Quetz]

BLU with an Almace says hi? Considering they're only geared for Frontline and not anything else.

Except for the part they have to set their spells, they get penalized for having to change spells, and their magical nukes have long casting and recast times? In fact with or without Almace Blu is better off meleeing for most of their damage than casting spells on harder mobs due to their physical spells scaling horribly on anything without paper thin defense. They are not equal.

And I forgot the part where most of them have retarded range.

[Quetzacoatl]

Except for the part they have to set their spells, they get penalized for having to change spells, and their magical nukes have long casting and recast times? In fact with or without Almace Blu is better off meleeing for most of their damage than casting spells on harder mobs due to their physical spells scaling horribly on anything without paper thin defense. They are not equal.

And I forgot the part where most of them have retarded range.

1 minute is all the time you need to prepare your spells anyway. Usually you're swapping your spells when you're preparing for a fight, right? I can't think of a situation where you have to swap your spells mid-battle.

Not to mention, doesn't CA+Efflux QC close an SC for a little boost in damage?

This is all not counting using magical spells to proc yellow and CW Burn when needed.