Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Korpg]

Karby, you either forget Dallas's argument stating that SMN has to melee on everything, or you never seen it.

Dallas, those numbers you tried to correct was so skewed in your favor that saying 1/4 the damage a WAR can do is actually very very very generous. In reality, that number would be closer to 1/7 the damage a WAR can do.

More if you can get people to help you (buffs and whatnot).

This is not saying that SMNs can't melee on every mob, the trash mobs and exp mobs are ok to melee on because they won't kill anyone from the extra TP the SMN feeds (even Sandsweepers in A-Altep). But saying that SMN melees do a lot more damage than actual SMNs is false, and has been debated for months now. Dallas is the only one who doesn't get it.

[Panthera]

Would it break the game if each avatar got its own Blood Pact time set? I don't think so.

But between -BP gear, and separate timers for buffs and attacks, I think we've exhausted SE's generosity.

[Alhanelem]

If you're trying to describe how little generosity there has been, then yes. Otherwise, no.

[Razushu]

Would it break the game if each avatar got its own Blood Pact time set? I don't think so.

But between -BP gear, and separate timers for buffs and attacks, I think we've exhausted SE's generosity.

Except they're planning on adding an ability to increase our BP rate, so I think we'll all have to wait and see what happens. SE has actually only started to be generous to SMNs since 75-90 cap increase(and these cap raises were arguably very rushed), because of this I have high hopes for what we get 90-95 cap which they have taken their time on that we'll see something big.

[Dallas]

Dallas, those numbers

require 4 people to make the WAR do that much damage and every single one of you think that the WAR alone deserves all the credit. I'm not that stupid. I'm 80% of a WAR without the other 3 exempt-from-your-bad-math members, and 75% with them. That fraction increases with the proposed BP timer reduction.

Once again, I reject the math that you cling to, but had no ability to generate on your own.

If the avatar's damage cannot be counted, nor can the buffs that allow the WAR to do that much damage, you are ZERO fraction of WAR. The only damage you are counting, YOU REFUSE TO DO.

Face it, you have to reduce yourself to absolutely nothing to argue against swinging a staff that takes absolutely nothing away from your playstyle. Of course, if you are nothing, it makes sense that I take nothing away.

Bandwagoner, the "5x" idiot conceded that he was exaggerating because he's a hater. You jumping to "7x" is pathetic.

[Malamasala]

Would it break the game if each avatar got its own Blood Pact time set? I don't think so.

SE just enjoys over compensating too much.

Would it have been unbalanced if Mana Cede cost 0 MP? Not at all. It would be like an ELemental Seal that didn't cost 100 MP to use.
Would it have been unbalanced if perpetuation didn't exist?`Not at all. All level 90 SMNs have free avatars these days, and people still play all the other jobs.
Would it have been unbalanced if it wasn't a 25% damage reduction on favors? Not at all, because avatars were never top DDs anyway.

The job is as far away from being overpowered as a rubber duck. That isn't to say that you can't kill someone by tossing a dozen rubber ducks on them.

[Korpg]

require 4 people to make the WAR do that much damage and every single one of you think that the WAR alone deserves all the credit. I'm not that stupid. I'm 80% of a WAR without the other 3 exempt-from-your-bad-math members, and 75% with them. That fraction increases with the proposed BP timer reduction.

Once again, I reject the math that you cling to, but had no ability to generate on your own.

If the avatar's damage cannot be counted, nor can the buffs that allow the WAR to do that much damage, you are ZERO fraction of WAR. The only damage you are counting, YOU REFUSE TO DO.

Face it, you have to reduce yourself to absolutely nothing to argue against swinging a staff that takes absolutely nothing away from your playstyle. Of course, if you are nothing, it makes sense that I take nothing away.

Bandwagoner, the "5x" idiot conceded that he was exaggerating because he's a hater. You jumping to "7x" is pathetic.

Both situations also give you the same buffs.

Haste (spell) is not hard to give. You want it to be a SMN exclusive spell, by the sounds of it.

"Only SMN melee should get Haste, because it is part of their 'abilities' to do so." Sounds familiar?

Haste (gear) is also not hard to get. You still want to give it only to SMN because they can't cap it. You want to base your numbers against a naked melee using the weapon that they have the lowest skill level for.

Haste (Job Ability) is the hardest of all 3 haste you can get, only because 3 jobs can give them: COR, DNC, and DRK. DRK is exclusive to DRK only.

You reject the math because even though it makes the math so much in your favor and so against everyone else, everyone else still beats you in damage 4 to 1. Avatar damage included. But we are talking about the idiot swinging the staff, not the glowing lady with the claws, aren't we?

Only way you can beat me in damage is if I use Throwing exclusively, not even having my weapon drawn out, but using a level 19 Flame Boomerang for damage. Then you can beat me in damage. Compare an Emp staff to a level 19 Throwing weapon, you barely edge me out. Real smooth.

But of course, I don't mind you swinging your staff like a "special person," but telling everyone you can outdamage everyone because you have a staff, that is a bunch of....stuff I don't want deleted here.

But wait, I thought you didn't accept the math, how can you accept the 5x as an argument if you don't accept the math in the first place?

[Dallas]

I'm sure the job lies at moderate melee damage, where it should be.

Cop out. If melee damage is "moderate," what is wrong with attaching a word significantly better than "moderate" to the combined damage of Avatar + melee? I don't care where the damage comes from, I simply deal as much as I can as fast as I can.

Bandwagoner, didn't read your post. No one really cares what someone else told you to say.

[Korpg]

Hey Dallas, what is the hardest mob you have ever melee soloed before?

If you want people to start believing in you, start telling everyone what you have done, not what you think you have done.

[Razushu]

require 4 people to make the WAR do that much damage and every single one of you think that the WAR alone deserves all the credit. I'm not that stupid. I'm 80% of a WAR without the other 3 exempt-from-your-bad-math members, and 75% with them. That fraction increases with the proposed BP timer reduction.

Once again, I reject the math that you cling to, but had no ability to generate on your own.

If the avatar's damage cannot be counted, nor can the buffs that allow the WAR to do that much damage, you are ZERO fraction of WAR. The only damage you are counting, YOU REFUSE TO DO.

Face it, you have to reduce yourself to absolutely nothing to argue against swinging a staff that takes absolutely nothing away from your playstyle. Of course, if you are nothing, it makes sense that I take nothing away.

Bandwagoner, the "5x" idiot conceded that he was exaggerating because he's a hater. You jumping to "7x" is pathetic.

Dallas in those numbers, the SMN is getting the same buffs as the WAR in fact GG even states that the SMN numbers are taken from the WARs sheet just edited to fit a SMN. The upcoming BP delay ability has no bearing on melee whatsoever, or are you still trying to pretend melee is the only way to keep up MP?

You reject the math because it hurts your cae, and you have no ability to generate your own, because we all know(you secretly) that SMN is incapable of the numbers you claim.

Dallas, if the WAR loses the buffs so does the SMN leaving the ratio the same. BPs cannot be counted as a bonus of your melee, because they are not an aspect of SMN melee any moreso than nukes are an aspect of BLM melee.


The argument against mage melee is still there, has always been there and will always be there, why? Because it's valid. This isn't saying that a mage can't melee if the situation allows for it just that it's mostly never worth it and there's always someone better you can et to melee.

As a melee the WAR did 3.91 times the damage of the SMN, thats x4. The SMN did 1/4 what the WAR did its not1/5 but it's close enough. The parse looks better for you because they wrongfully counted the Avatar as well(frankly to be nice), but seeing as this was evidence in the case for/against SMN melee and Avatars can be used just as well from the backline they don't factor in.