Thief's knife upgrade

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zirael

Huh?
1234567890

---

Just an example of the type of tards great mentioned above when he said :

Quote:

---

There are still people who think that moonphases affect crafting and macros are for chumps and try-hards.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't know how exactly to answer this, Because I'm not sure the question or if its even a question at me >_> but even Asslets getting +2 TH Still means We'll get a base of +7 and be forced to Deepthroat that level 70 Abomination.

---

Late responding, but hey, not like I'm interrupting vital and intelligent discussion at this point. It was a rhetorical question.

I just think it's funny that a higher amount of Treasure Hunter is being added in a normal slot while Thief's Knife remains a malignant Parrying Knife-shaped growth to most people who really enjoy playing Thief. SE knows people like Treasure Hunter even though it's damned near statistically irrelevant. SE seemingly wants Treasure Hunter to grow with Thief. But...SE still hates every living thing enough to leave Thief's Knife as it is.

Also, sorry to hear about your poor luck with groups. I imagine I'll sympathize with that even more soon when I'm playing regularly again, updating my stuffs, and inevitably shopping for a Voidwatch group. Fortunately for me, I'm mostly on White Mage so others generally suffer due to my retardation rather than vise versa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

This is the entire reasoning behind the request. actually. When we have a choice, 99% of us are smart enough to simply dequip the THF's knife knowing its not worth the sacrifice.

but most of us do not have such a choice. Its during events and what have you, where we're either forced to wear it, Or we don't come THF. Or during multi-kill Events like Dynamis. A lot of people do have the pleasure of working with people smart enough to not worry about the 1 extra TH that won't likely matter by the end of the kill (Because of TH upgrades...), But a lot of us don't have that luxury either.

And Its not really a huge problem We've mentioned that, in fact comparatively its very under-talked about here. The discussion keeping this alive is really only a feel people trying to explain all of this. Most of the conversation regarding this is "I don't understand" vs "Here, let us try to explain".

Its not like we're demanding it happen right now, We're making suggestions for the future. Some time in the future, As 29 Levels out of Date is getting out of hand. it was gimp at level 75, Its just that much gimper now.

Again, Not a super-dooper pressing issue. Simply something that most of us believe should be looked into in the future. Which is why we made these suggestions, and as a core, why these forums exist. Suggestions

---

Personally you all do have a choice but are too scared to face the consequences of it or to lazy to commit to the choice. There is plenty of theifs that feel the knife is useless and also have other jobs leveled up to 90 and beyond. So simply put one could grow a pair and take a stand and not use if one is so adamant about it and just deal with the end result since at worst case scenario you will get kicked out which leads me to the next point. START YOUR OWN . If you feel your leader is such a nimrod and doesnt understand how useless the knife is, wont consider anything else, and you know other people in the shell who feel the same way and have other jobs leveled up, snatch them and form a shell together.

Bottom line if the dps suffered is really as horrible as you guys make it seem (which i disagree that it is), and you feel so strongly about it than one should be willing to put their behind on the line. If it doesnt matter enough to you to risk getting kicked off the shell or just not allowed into end game stuff, the please quit whining and just deal with it as always.

While yes it is nice to maybe have these ideas given to us it still wont ever change the real source of this problem as many other problems on other jobs..... the PLAYERBASE. The only real way to change that is to stop going along just to get along if you really feel that strongly about it. A better solution would be to increase all the other non-weapon TH gear from TH +1 to TH+2 for each piece, eliminating the piece altogether. Another solution to increase kill speed, at least outside of abyssea, is to just get and use your adventuring fellow as fierce attacker or soothing healer depending on your play style in the interim.

Finally I forget who said it or how it was said but it doesnt really matter anyway but these threads are more than just a rubber stamp approval list or petition for ideas. Any developer worth their weight wants to hear both sides of an issue to get a general consensus of where the community stands. The fact that the mods or so oblivious to the bullying tactics being used to effectively try to silence any detractors. Simply put if your position is valid and reason and has legs to stand on its own merits such tactics aren't even necessary so it is obvious to me that it doesnt. It is complete bull to see how mods react to people defending theirselves to people standing up against these bullying tactics but do nothing to address the people doing the actual bullying. While we are all supposed to be adults and "mature" about discussing some people need to be taught a little class goes a long way to get your point across.

Get out.

0123456789

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

derp derp derp.

---

NIce try. Now go away.

Use your adventuring fellow? Only after equipping it with an O-hat for extra TH right? TROLLOLOLOLOLOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

NIce try. Now go away.

---

You said that before yet here I am again....hmmm

In any case simply put SE rarely gives us exactly what we ask for and exactly how we ask for it.

Usually one of these following things will happen:
1. We get the damage upgrade to the knife but the TH level of the knife will be downgraded
2. We dont get the damage upgrade but instead the TH level is raised on the knife
3. We get both the damage boost on the knife and the TH level remains the same but it comes at the cost of say Evasion down effect, WS damage reduction, or TP reduction.

When will people realize SE doesnt care that much about American fan base satisfaction with the game nearly as much as they want to retain their vision of the game and keeping the Japanese fan base happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

Use your adventuring fellow? Only after equipping it with an O-hat for extra TH right? TROLLOLOLOLOLOL.

---

Aw how cute single-digit is trying to make a joke. Farming with your fellow if done right levels it up as well as speeds up the kill rate when solo farming. Currently my fellow is level 80 and any mobs level 80-90 makes it level up faster while i farm stuff. Only downside is that SE refuses to allow fellows the same level of access to areas that ordinary automatons and charmed/jug pets can access. Apparently one more reason I disklike this game now but it does help with farming whle keeping the ratty Thief's knife equipped in other areas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

You said that before yet here I am again....hmmm

In any case simply put SE rarely gives us exactly what we ask for and exactly how we ask for it.

Usually one of these following things will happen:
1. We get the damage upgrade to the knife but the TH level of the knife will be downgraded
2. We dont get the damage upgrade but instead the TH level is raised on the knife
3. We get both the damage boost on the knife and the TH level remains the same but it comes at the cost of say Evasion down effect, WS damage reduction, or TP reduction.

When will people realize SE doesnt care that much about American fan base satisfaction with the game nearly as much as they want to retain their vision of the game and keeping the Japanese fan base happy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

Aw how cute single-digit is trying to make a joke. Farming with your fellow if done right levels it up as well as speeds up the kill rate when solo farming. Currently my fellow is level 80 and any mobs level 80-90 makes it level up faster while i farm stuff. Only downside is that SE refuses to allow fellows the same level of access to areas that ordinary automatons and charmed/jug pets can access. Apparently one more reason I disklike this game now but it does help with farming whle keeping the ratty Thief's knife equipped in other areas.

---

This is how to multi-quote a thread:

#1 click the icon bottom-right of a speech bubble and a + sign of the first post you want to quote.
#2 repeat #1 for all other posts you want to quote, until you reach the last one (if you click the last one too it doesn't matter though).
#3 click 'reply with quote' button on the last thread that you want to quote.

Unless of course you're doing it solely to try and boost your post count, in which case, crack on. I've personally stopped reading most of what you say now anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

Aw how cute single-digit is trying to make a joke. Farming with your fellow if done right levels it up as well as speeds up the kill rate when solo farming. Currently my fellow is level 80 and any mobs level 80-90 makes it level up faster while i farm stuff. Only downside is that SE refuses to allow fellows the same level of access to areas that ordinary automatons and charmed/jug pets can access. Apparently one more reason I disklike this game now but it does help with farming whle keeping the ratty Thief's knife equipped in other areas.

---

You are like a troll idiot savant. Let's assume for a second that you actually do use your fellow for some kind of old school wisteria lumber farming or something lol. Using your fellow is fine and all but in any mass farming situation using a TK will net you less drops than any reasonable offhand dagger because you are trading a noticeable increase in kill speed for an unnoticeable increase in drop rates. It's a dumb thing to do if you have your fellow out or not. You are willingly imposing a gimp on yourself and your supposed farming session that you have been saying we have the freedom of choice to not impose on ourselves. That's some next level shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. We get the damage upgrade to the knife but the TH level of the knife will be downgraded

---

You do know that already exists right? Since if you lowered the TH on TK it would be TH +0 which is the same as the better offhand daggers we already have. (In before TH +0.5)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Late responding, but hey, not like I'm interrupting vital and intelligent discussion at this point. It was a rhetorical question.

I just think it's funny that a higher amount of Treasure Hunter is being added in a normal slot while Thief's Knife remains a malignant Parrying Knife-shaped growth to most people who really enjoy playing Thief. SE knows people like Treasure Hunter even though it's damned near statistically irrelevant. SE seemingly wants Treasure Hunter to grow with Thief. But...SE still hates every living thing enough to leave Thief's Knife as it is.

Also, sorry to hear about your poor luck with groups. I imagine I'll sympathize with that even more soon when I'm playing regularly again, updating my stuffs, and inevitably shopping for a Voidwatch group. Fortunately for me, I'm mostly on White Mage so others generally suffer due to my retardation rather than vise versa.

---

I like your reason for editing. Also, Ignoring the E-thug with the ironic Character model, I think this thread is fun to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

1. You are like a troll idiot savant. Let's assume for a second that you actually do use your fellow for some kind of old school wisteria lumber farming or something lol. Using your fellow is fine and all but in any mass farming situation using a TK will net you less drops than any reasonable offhand dagger because you are trading a noticeable increase in kill speed for an unnoticeable increase in drop rates. It's a dumb thing to do if you have your fellow out or not. You are willingly imposing a gimp on yourself and your supposed farming session that you have been saying we have the freedom of choice to not impose on ourselves. That's some next level shit.


2. You do know that already exists right? Since if you lowered the TH on TK it would be TH +0 which is the same as the better offhand daggers we already have. (In before TH +0.5)

---

1. Ok I dont know how you have your fellow set up or how you do and personally I dont care. In any case even when farming trash mobs for drop I usually have a stack of meat mithkabobs handy to boost my damgage output and kill speed. In addition to that my fellow is using a great katana i traded her which has a delay on average about 2x that of a 200 delay dagger. Sure I could go with a polearm which has a delay of about 2 regular 190 delay dagger but I like the skill chain options of the katana better than the polearm which I also do with my fellow to increase the damage. Between all that and facing mobs that are about decent challenge to my fellow which is about 72-80 to my level 90 thief damage loss is miniscule to me but apparently I have a higher tolerance for damage loss plus I'm never in a rush when I play this game because I schedule time to do things. In addition some mobs actually have higher drop rates than others as well even in the same family of mobs. For instance, say you farming lizard eggs one would be better off farming them from the lizards in Crawler's nest than say the ones out Cape Terrigan. On average they drop like 2 or 3 per kill even without TH procing and the same could be said of other mobs if any of you bothered to look it up. Unfortunate drop rates for some items are just horrible no matter how u cut it with or without TH. I also made it a point to say I dont even use the knife anyway like 20 posts ago but when I did that is how I did it, take it or leave it no need to be a jerk all your life.

2. Allow me to rephrase for you then the overall effectiveness of the dagger may no longer give you a starting level of TH 4 by having it equipped but rather TH 3.5 if they do increase the damage of it. Hell it may even still say Treasure Hunter+1 but may not even factor into the starting level of TH anymore when they increase the damage knowing how jacked up SE thinks. In any case you are just arguing for arguing sake but whatever. Essentially the player base attitude combined with SE need to artificially control the game aspects is the biggest probelm with everything. The way SE does TH is supposedly trying to control the AH and prices etc when the market will correct itself on its own by the law of supply and demand. SE is essentially given the AH a government sponsored bailout instead of letting the market bottom out and recover on its own and hence why TH is in such crisis. Anyway it doesnt matter I'm tired of people just trying to push their populace agenda anyway. The bottom line is that for most gear in game you have to give up something to gain its benefits because that is how SE likes it and will continue to shove down your throats. In a party I am willing to sacrfice my damage out put for the good of the party because that is my job. Even solo that is fine because usually whatever I'm farming doesn't take long to kill anyway and I often get multiple drops of stuff anyway to make up for the killspeed. If I have a problem with that I just leave the party and fly solo or just do a low man with buddies, simple.

All I hear is ego, ego, and more ego so I really dont listen to you people anymore anyway.

Why can't I quit you?

Well, hopefully you know how to multiquote, considering even the RDM forums came together and collectively bitchslapped you for coming in and posting 5+ times in a row while leaving absolutely no clue as to who/what you were responding to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

Why can't I quit you?

---

If only :\

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

Comment deleted by Moderator.

---

Makes perfect sense.

Listen, it's very simple. If you think we're that stupid, why are you still talking? Even if you truly believe you're not an idiot (which I believe that you believe), you have got to realize by now that there's nothing you can possibly say to convince us of that. We think you're a bottomless barrel filled to the brim with stupid. Every single word you said, every hint of your attitude and your reasoning and researching skills has convinced us you're a moron. You've worked very hard to get where you are in our minds, and the results show. So why are you still talking? Just blacklist all of us and call it a day. Put your cardboard Optical Crown with Treasure Hunter on and declare yourself king of the internet arguments, we're cool with that. But if you keep posting, you will keep provoking replies, so don't blame us for derailing this thread and getting it locked again.

The problem is that he actually wants to derail the thread, he is just here to ruin useful discussions. I personally recommend that everyone just put him on ignore and report his troll posts as intentional griefing. He has yet to add anything useful to the conversation. Let him satisfy his craving for negative attention somewhere else. /ignore.

I think 1 thing they could do is at least let us do Fields of Valor augments to it. I'd actually like to have that be at least 1 option for all older Rare/EX gear from NMs. It seems like this would be the easiest thing to do for them and then add a Magian Trial later for it.

Now I'm going to sound like a troll, but I'm just an ignorant player trying to understand.

If Thief's Knife is as useless as the discussion makes it seem, then why does it still sell like hotcakes on the AH?

Are there just lots of ignorant players who do not know any better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sappho

Now I'm going to sound like a troll, but I'm just an ignorant player trying to understand.

If Thief's Knife is as useless as the discussion makes it seem, then why does it still sell like hotcakes on the AH?

Are there just lots of ignorant players who do not know any better?

---

Three reasons, first of all, it still has its uses when fighting NMs. The reason for this is, since you want as high TH as possible on it, so you have it equipped at the beginning of the fight, do one move on the NM and then unequip it again. This works, and you'll lose some damage due to swapping weapons, but no one is complaining about that, since it happens once a fight and doesn't take much out of the whole thing (even though it can still be annoying, especially when you do multiple same NM fights, like in Abyssea). This is not possible (or at least not feasible) during farming fights, like Abyssea trigger farming or Dynamis, because mobs die too fast and you'd be losing an averagely high amount of TP every fight, overall gimping your damage immensely. It would even be better to keep it equipped, however, even that takes so much out of your damage, that you can achieve more by just equipping a real dagger and killing faster (TH5 to TH6 difference is negligible). So it can be useful, for the right kind of fight, namely when you want highest possible TH on (rare NM fights, where every % counts).

The second reason why it's still selling is simply because there's many people starting up THF again. THF received a short burst of popularity with Abyssea, so there's many new/noob players picking up THF, so there's an overall increase in dagger sales.

The third reason is simply because most people don't know yet, don't know just how useless higher level TH really is. Previous tests have shown very little increase past TH2 (which is even subbable). But people simply don't know. They think the higher the TH, the better. As we've even discussed in this thread, there's still leaders out there who force their THFs to fulltime it for events, simply because they either don't know the TH bonus or even simple TH mechanics (also demonstrated by some people arguing in here).

The Thief's Knife isn't completely useless, but it suffers from a game mechanic that wasn't designed to deal with this kind of ability. This augment belongs on equipment that doesn't correspond to a fixed DD slot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

The third reason is simply because most people don't know yet, don't know just how useless higher level TH really is. Previous tests have shown very little increase past TH2 (which is even subbable). But people simply don't know.

---

Do you know, off-hand, a link to some TH research?
I'd love to see the math that goes on behind the scenes.
I do have THF leveled up, but I only use it for personal farming.

Here's one thread: Treasure-Hunter-Testing

Personally, I don't think we will ever see an upgrade to this, nor augments.
Reason: It leaves us with a choice.
SE likes us to take choices.
Personally, my choice is a lot of the time, I don't even bother to remove it, despite having ~7 better off-hand options. The reason that I choose not to remove it is thus:
In dynamis, or when farming, mobs die too fast for it to be worth swapping the dagger out and lose the TP. On proc mobs, either in Dynamis or VW, we're often holding off on damage to get procs, so it's better to keep TPing for higher TH with the low-level low-DPS thief's knife, dealing less damage so killing more slowly and getting TH upgrades.

It's all personal preference, and like I said at the start; it's your choice. Use it - don't use it - use it for 1 hit then swap it out.

I'd say that unless you're fighting a mob that you can pop as fast as you kill, no matter how fast that might be, and you can get any procs needed in that time - then use it.
Of course, inside abyssea, I'll be swapping from thf to blu/thf for seal NMs once I finish levelling blu, because yellow still beats TH10, as I found on Blange when TH10 without yellow yielded 0 seals. Yellow proc has never doen this that I've seen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Well, hopefully you know how to multiquote, considering even the RDM forums came together and collectively bitchslapped you for coming in and posting 5+ times in a row while leaving absolutely no clue as to who/what you were responding to.

---

It not my fault those morons never took to the time to tryout the multiple thread views like I did and choose to use the Hybrid view that shows a linear view of what post everyone is responding too by linking them. Those same people and you all here are probably the same type of morons who never read the instruction manual of how to setup their tv but then are dumbfounded by why it doesnt work.

It also funny how you and others refer to Bitchslapping alot on a forum. I wouldnt know about that because I dont bitch slap men or women and I never been bitchslapped by anybody so I would take it that most of you are resident experts on that topic.

If anything I just remember a bunch of close minded jerks who only believe there is one way to do something and do it well when that isnt the case, much like you people. The whole issue here about increasing the damage of a dagger that is only situational at best when there are multiple other daggers more qualified to increase the damage.

lol

0123456789

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

It not my fault those morons never took to the time to tryout the multiple thread views like I did and choose to use the Hybrid view that shows a linear view of what post everyone is responding too by linking them. Those same people and you all here are probably the same type of morons who never read the instruction manual of how to setup their tv but then are dumbfounded by why it doesnt work.

It also funny how you and others refer to Bitchslapping alot on a forum. I wouldnt know about that because I dont bitch slap men or women and I never been bitchslapped by anybody so I would take it that most of you are resident experts on that topic.

If anything I just remember a bunch of close minded jerks who only believe there is one way to do something and do it well when that isnt the case, much like you people. The whole issue here about increasing the damage of a dagger that is only situational at best when there are multiple other daggers more qualified to increase the damage.

---

I like the idea of having a higher damage knife with TH on it, why you are against this I can't figure out. Are you mentally handicapped?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wish12oz

I like the idea of having a higher damage knife with TH on it, why you are against this I can't figure out. Are you mentally handicapped?

---

The reasoning behind the request is what I disagree with as it doesn't affect anybody ability to get stuff done nearly as much as everybody keep whining about it. You must be mentally handicap if you don't see that the knife is useless no matter how you cut it even with higher damage stat. The drop rate of items that are statically assigned by SE is the real problem and needs to change.

Also this is America and I can !!! If you like being told what to think and feel I suggest you leave because you in the wrong country. I already explained it here and in the other bs thread not my fault the overly sensitive users keep whining to mods to delete my posts. There was nothing offensive or inappropriate about any of them.

I'd prefer the entire thread just get locked again so the THF forum can be put to constructive discussion again as opposed to this nonstop for the past week or so.

don't supposed it ever occurred to anyone to fix placebo hunter to something that didn't have to be trended over 1000 kills to see a .7% increase in desireable drops? as opposed to say, treant bulbs? then you can just leave the knife out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glamdring

don't supposed it ever occurred to anyone to fix placebo hunter to something that didn't have to be trended over 1000 kills to see a .7% increase in desireable drops? as opposed to say, treant bulbs? then you can just leave the knife out of it.

---

There are / have been millions of threads about fixing treasure hunter (if that's even what your trying to say). I think at this point I've given up on the devs being capable of making a decent treasure hunter trait. I would settle for just making it so that Placebo hunter no longer affects my damage output. I guess it would be cool if they put a cap on how high treasure hunter could go, and made it super easy to get to for thief main (think like 5 attack rounds :P) so that you never needed TK to reach it, But that will never happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

The reasoning behind the request is what I disagree with as it doesn't affect anybody ability to get stuff done nearly as much as everybody keep whining about it. You must be mentally handicap if you don't see that the knife is useless no matter how you cut it even with higher damage stat. The drop rate of items that are statically assigned by SE is the real problem and needs to change.

Also this is America and I can !!! If you like being told what to think and feel I suggest you leave because you in the wrong country. I already explained it here and in the other bs thread not my fault the overly sensitive users keep whining to mods to delete my posts. There was nothing offensive or inappropriate about any of them.

---

/blacklisted. You have nothing to add to this or any other thread as far as I can see. The forum would be better off without you, and I implore the other readers of this thread to do the same, and stop feeding this troll, please!

well the bst's got a thread wiped within 4 hours, and then 3h banned, for trolling their shit about dynamis...just spam the report post button on this chump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Babekeke

/blacklisted. You have nothing to add to this or any other thread as far as I can see. The forum would be better off without you, and I implore the other readers of this thread to do the same, and stop feeding this troll, please!

---

I /Blacklisted him too.

Anyways...... 3,000+ views. I hope one of them was the development staff. It would be nice to get a response on this. Thief is still a Loot Monger. A little love wouldn't hurt.

TH cap in gear will be TH6, so no more need to use TK with AA+2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nynja

TH cap in gear will be TH6, so no more need to use TK with AA+2.

---

Seriously? Tested? I pray to God this is true.

I suppose that would certainly fix the problem. Not something any of us ever thought of. I suppose that depends on if Atma and Super Kupowers count towards any such cap, considering I've noticed +1 with either of those active.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nynja

TH cap in gear will be TH6, so no more need to use TK with AA+2.

---

That's actually a genius way if right of disabling people forcing others to use the Thief's Knife.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delvish

I suppose that would certainly fix the problem. Not something any of us ever thought of. I suppose that depends on if Atma and Super Kupowers count towards any such cap, considering I've noticed +1 with either of those active.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nynja

TH cap in gear will be TH6, so no more need to use TK with AA+2.

---

I guess it would be more accurate to say gear TH will be capped at 3. Also, we did think of that before, it was mentioned a few times in the closed thread. I just didn't think SE would actually do something like that.

I think this is the second best solution. Personally I would have voted to remove TP loss on changing the offhand weapon, but I can see why they wouldn't go with that, nor did I ever expect it to happen. I'm glad they went with this.

I'd still like to know how you know this, not that I don't believe you, just for further reading. From the test server? Reports on BG, or any other sources available?

Uh...my post was sarcasm as to how SE would make TK worthless to have >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nynja

Uh...my post was sarcasm as to how SE would make TK worthless to have >.>

---

/ cry

The most brilliant idea I think any of us have ever seen (Sorry, I read -most- of the closed thread as it was posted but with HIM in there I started to not care anymore and skimmed) and it wasn't real and the biggest let-down since Entropy.

You sir, must work for SE...