Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

They should make relic weaponskills better before even thinking of adding more jobs too them. Most of the relic weaponskills are just sad for the amount of time and effort people have put and still put into them. Even though there has been updates to relic weapons the specific weaponskills for those weapons still need much improvement imo. Having 95 Excalibur, Knights of Round still falls short to my Almace's CdC. I'm hoping at 95 they give the weaponskills another 25% boost and increase the modifiers because they really need it.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! We forwarded your feedback to the dev. team and they let us know that they have indeed looked into increasing the number of jobs that can use relic weapons, but as of right now there are no plans to implement this change.

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Keep Scholars off Mjollnir please. Adding jobs to the appropriate relics is fine however.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Keep Scholars off Mjollnir please. Adding jobs to the appropriate relics is fine however.

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I'm curious what your line of reasoning is for this, considering that SCH is on the Molva Maul but not the Chthonic Staff. It seems like a weird attempt to effectively give SCH access to two different relic WSes.

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Originally Posted by MDenham

I'm curious what your line of reasoning is for this, considering that SCH is on the Molva Maul but not the Chthonic Staff. It seems like a weird attempt to effectively give SCH access to two different relic WSes.

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Scholar should have never been on the Molva Maul either. But even if they stay on that weapon, Red Mage can wear both the Sword and the Dagger.

Mjollnir should not touch another job's hands. White Mage is the club specialist. Mjollnir was designed exclusively for White Mage. If SE wanted Mjollnir to be in the hands of another job, some other jobs like Paladin would have been able to use it too from day one. The weapon is a symbol, a pact made by SE with White Mages, exclusively with White Mages. To break this pact is to allow adventurer's everywhere to die from lack of healing and the undead to roam.

Do you remember when cure spells started doing 99999 damage to undead for a day? That was the repercussions of the Molva Maul being weldable by Scholars - the pure anger of every White Mage pouring out into divine retribution at the corpses of the monsters that allowed this to happen. Final Fantasy will not survive the day of reckoning that will occur if Mjollnir is allowed to be handled by unchosen hands.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Scholar should have never been on the Molva Maul either. But even if they stay on that weapon, Red Mage can wear both the Sword and the Dagger.

Mjollnir should not touch another job's hands. White Mage is the club specialist. Mjollnir was designed exclusively for White Mage. If SE wanted Mjollnir to be in the hands of another job, some other jobs like Paladin would have been able to use it too from day one. The weapon is a symbol, a pact made by SE with White Mages, exclusively with White Mages. To break this pact is to allow adventurer's everywhere to die from lack of healing and the undead to roam.

Do you remember when cure spells started doing 99999 damage to undead for a day? That was the repercussions of the Molva Maul being weldable by Scholars - the pure anger of every White Mage pouring out into divine retribution at the corpses of the monsters that allowed this to happen. Final Fantasy will not survive the day of reckoning that will occur if Mjollnir is allowed to be handled by unchosen hands.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Scholar should have never been on the Molva Maul either. But even if they stay on that weapon, Red Mage can wear both the Sword and the Dagger.

Mjollnir should not touch another job's hands. White Mage is the club specialist. Mjollnir was designed exclusively for White Mage. If SE wanted Mjollnir to be in the hands of another job, some other jobs like Paladin would have been able to use it too from day one. The weapon is a symbol, a pact made by SE with White Mages, exclusively with White Mages. To break this pact is to allow adventurer's everywhere to die from lack of healing and the undead to roam.

Do you remember when cure spells started doing 99999 damage to undead for a day? That was the repercussions of the Molva Maul being weldable by Scholars - the pure anger of every White Mage pouring out into divine retribution at the corpses of the monsters that allowed this to happen. Final Fantasy will not survive the day of reckoning that will occur if Mjollnir is allowed to be handled by unchosen hands.

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PLD is A- on club while WHM is only B+, it's more an expert than WHM.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

PLD is A- on club while WHM is only B+, it's more an expert than WHM.

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But PLDs *never* use clubs, except as a proc tool and they also do not have access to Hexa Strike. Other than that exception, WHM is basically the only job that would ever for a second consider swinging a club. (Aside: There should be new 2-handed great mauls that only WHM gets :p )

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But PLDs *never* use clubs, except as a proc tool and they also do not have access to Hexa Strike. Other than that exception, WHM is basically the only job that would ever for a second consider swinging a club. (Aside: There should be new 2-handed great mauls that only WHM gets :p )

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I don't deny it. My point is only PLD's A- skill is the highest rank any job gets on club. This makes them the master of the jobs. WHM is just the only realistic one to use a club.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I tried T_T but I shall try again just for you! I'll post an update if I get more info.

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Where this moogle come from? Did they hire someone to help camate? Lets hope the devs listen to you more than they do camate who should start bribing them with gardening techniques

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

PLD is A- on club while WHM is only B+, it's more an expert than WHM.

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PLDs can't equip Hammers/Mauls. Oops?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/im...MoogleIcon.jpg

I'm so glad moogles have their eyes closed. Otherwise, I'd feel like it was trying to stare into my soul. o_o

Although...

http://static.ffxiah.com/images/avat...eeac39cddc.png

Now that's an avatar!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

(Aside: There should be new 2-handed great mauls that only WHM gets :p )

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This. So much, this.

The only problem is that they'd make scythes look fast but pitiful. (DMG: 180 Delay 765? Sounds like a plan at 99.)

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Mjollnir should not touch another job's hands. White Mage is the club specialist. Mjollnir was designed exclusively for White Mage. If SE wanted Mjollnir to be in the hands of another job, some other jobs like Paladin would have been able to use it too from day one. The weapon is a symbol, a pact made by SE with White Mages, exclusively with White Mages. To break this pact is to allow adventurer's everywhere to die from lack of healing and the undead to roam.

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This is exactly how I feel about DNC getting Mandau. It should belong to THF (RDM and BRD really don't count because they don't horn in on THF's territory like DNC does)

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Originally Posted by Rohypnol

Only thing you'd get for off-handing Twashtar would be the stat boost. No weapon skill or aftermath.

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Nope just the highest DPS dagger you could possibly wield offhand.

Either add the 5 new jobs to relics or make them their own relics. Simple.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

[..] or make them their own relics.

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Wouldn't fit the pattern. Mythics are job-specific (one for each job), and Relics and Empyreans are weapon-specific, meaning one for each weapon, which are supposed to be the mightiest of their class. Adding more weapons would violate that logic.

Well, at least I'm glad that we're finally getting answers. Thank you for the response ^^

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

If they are worried about the counter effect on PUP they can just make it like the DW on suppanomimi. PUP would only get the "enhances counter" effect if they were /mnk.

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That wouldn't work, because Counter is not job-specific. Dual Wield is an on/off trait, whereas Counter is a +x trait. Most traits, MNK's Counter included, are actually Enhances "<something>" effect bonuses.

It could be changed to "MNK:Enhances "Counter" effect", but the biggest issue wouldn't be Counter but the ungodly base damage on Spharai (+48) compared to any other H2H weapon (Verethragna/Kenkonken +39).

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! We forwarded your feedback to the dev. team and they let us know that they have indeed looked into increasing the number of jobs that can use relic weapons, but as of right now there are no plans to implement this change.

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Please source this statement.

Personally if anything, I think that new weapons should have been added for the new jobs. New relic armor was added, I don't see why new weapons shouldn't have been. Then that allows the possibility of those jobs getting something built for them (though you never know when it comes to SE...) instead of something made before their existence without their consideration.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

This is exactly how I feel about DNC getting Mandau. It should belong to THF (RDM and BRD really don't count because they don't horn in on THF's territory like DNC does)

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So much QQ. SE should really just delete THF all together, give BLU fully upgrade-able Treasure Hunter and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

That wouldn't work, because Counter is not job-specific. Dual Wield is an on/off trait, whereas Counter is a +x trait. Most traits, MNK's Counter included, are actually Enhances "<something>" effect bonuses.

It could be changed to "MNK:Enhances "Counter" effect", but the biggest issue wouldn't be Counter but the ungodly base damage on Spharai (+48) compared to any other H2H weapon (Verethragna/Kenkonken +39).

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I was just using suppa as an example of a piece of gear that enhances an effect without granting that same effect unless you have it via main or sj. There's no reason the enhances counter on Spharai couldn't be coded the same. It would technically be "Latent effect: Enhances counter" where the requirement would be main or sj MNK but in the interest of not messing with the item description just leave it as "Enhances counter". Not that it matters though since SE is arbitrarily refusing to add new jobs to relics.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I tried T_T but I shall try again just for you! I'll post an update if I get more info.

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Thank you very much Rukkirii for taking the time to speak to the dev team! And even more so for going back to try to retrieve us more information. I look forward to hearing more :)

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

So much QQ. SE should really just delete THF all together, give BLU fully upgrade-able Treasure Hunter and call it a day.

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They kind of already have with the updates to RNG and DNC.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Personally if anything, I think that new weapons should have been added for the new jobs. New relic armor was added, I don't see why new weapons shouldn't have been. Then that allows the possibility of those jobs getting something built for them (though you never know when it comes to SE...) instead of something made before their existence without their consideration.

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Relic armor is job specific. Relic weapons are not.

The only possible new Relic weapon they could add is a Relic war hoop for Dancer, assuming SE ever follows up on the claim that they'd make Throwing weapon skills (they said this forever ago - before this forum - so don't ask for a source). I guess Scholar could get a Relic Grimoire that acts the same way Gjallarhorn does, giving an extra Stratagem maybe?
Blue Mage, Corsair and Puppetmaster (and Dancer) are pretty much screwed without being added to existing ones, though.

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Relic armor is job specific. Relic weapons are not.

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Some of them are, but one way or another, every job was represented. There's no reason they couldn't invent new weapons. Yes, there would be type overlap, but they could explain it away somehow.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Some of them are, but one way or another, every job was represented. There's no reason they couldn't invent new weapons.

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All Relic armor is job specific. There are now two weapons of the same type in the Relic catalog; some are job specific simply because they're the only job that wields that weapon type.

If they add anything new it will be along the lines of Aegis and Gjallarhorn. That actually works for a couple of jobs, but only those two. Dancer, Blue Mage and Corsair can be slapped on their respective weapons, Scholar and Puppetmaster could have new Relics, a Grimoire and Animator (or frame?) in the style of Gjallarhorn. It would be a bit of effort to add Animated Grimoires and Animated Puppets into Dynamis, but it's certainly not impossible. The other three jobs are pretty much stuck being slapped on a preexisting weapon unless I'm mistaken, though. I don't think any of them have something similar to Grimoires or Animators (Corsair has ammo but that certainly should be ruled out).

It seems kind of pointless to say "they could overlap weapon types" when they've pretty much already said they'll simply be adding new jobs to them anyway. Puppetmaster is the only job it seems questionable to add onto a Relic weapon so I've offered an alternative, Scholar just fits the same theme, though it would be greatly unfair unless SE does something considerable to Claustrum (Hey SE, make the *2.5 damage modifier work on magic damage, problem solved).

SE can and will add any stupid thing they want to the game. It doesn't have to make any sense. I can jump on the head of a giant frog anytime I want. Go figure that crap out.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

SE can and will add any stupid thing they want to the game. It doesn't have to make any sense. I can jump on the head of a giant frog anytime I want. Go figure that crap out.

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Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

SE can and will add any stupid thing they want to the game. It doesn't have to make any sense. I can jump on the head of a giant frog anytime I want. Go figure that crap out.

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SE are Naruto fans.

Anyone else noticing that Alhanelem will commonly claim that SE doesn't have the time to introduce peoples more complex ideas that he disagrees with, yet the moment its something he wants, the fact that it would take far longer to create and balance five new weapons than it would to simply adjust the existing ones becomes completely oblivious to him.

Though while this topic is descending into "SE can do anything they want, they can add multiple Relic daggers" despite evidence they'll do the opposite, I propose the world will end next week because anything is possible. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

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Anyone else noticing that Alhanelem

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Nope, I'm not noticing that. I am however noticing you making personal attacks. I also notice you randomly popping into threads to bring this up, even when it hasn't happened in the active discussion.

I don't really endorse taking any action whatsoever on this topic- but I would rather them make new weapons for the missing jobs that don't suck, then just slap them on the existing ones and call it a day. If SE is going to do something, they should at least do it well and not lazily.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

SE are Naruto fans.

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No. Please read this.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Nope, I'm not noticing that. I am however noticing you making personal attacks. I also notice you randomly popping into threads to bring this up, even when it hasn't happened in the active discussion.

I don't really endorse taking any action whatsoever on this topic- but I would rather them make new weapons for the missing jobs that don't suck, then just slap them on the existing ones and call it a day. If SE is going to do something, they should at least do it well and not lazily.

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A personal attack would be "You're an idiot", I was simply observing a trend. And of course it hasn't happened in the active discussion here, you're not exactly going to argue both sides of this topic, are you? I've simply noticed you'll say something isn't worth the developers time in one thread and then claim something else is in another topic despite the fact they've already suggested doing otherwise.

As for the actual topic, adding completely new Relic weapons is unnecessary, simply a perk for the jobs involved (adding new good Relics for five jobs when something like Summoner and Black Mage are royally screwed), a bonus, and something that is of such little importance that dev time could be better spent in other areas. It's not in any way a bad suggestion, its just that simply sticking new jobs on the current weapons is a far simpler solution. Stop me if this is sounding familiar to you.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

No. Please read this.

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Actually this would be at least 700% more useful.

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It's not in any way a bad suggestion, its just that simply sticking new jobs on the current weapons is a far simpler solution. Stop me if this is sounding familiar to you.

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Simpler, yes, I'll give it that. But simpler isn't always better. We often do simplify our suggestions in the hopes they will be more likely to be implemented (I fully admit I have done this, for example with the title screen resolution enhancement idea), but we shouldn't have to set the bar low.

(In the case of my noted example, I'd like for all of the textures to be sharpened, not just this one or that one, and I just hoped that by picking on something glaringly bad, it might get some attention)

Adding new relics certainly wouldn't hurt, but I don't see anything wrong with just adding the new jobs to the existing relics. Yes, many of them are not very strong, so the idea of new ones would be appealing in the sense that the new jobs could have something that is designed more powerful from the start, but SE has given us the impression they will continue to improve them.

Also, really none of the relics are so powerful specific to their respective jobs that it could be deemed 'unfair' to the new jobs when they're added.

I've been on the fence with making a relic cause most dont appeal to me (I dont have PLD or BRD and I dont enjoy dark as much) but if they added COR to gun, id make it in a heart beat.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Personally if anything, I think that new weapons should have been added for the new jobs. New relic armor was added, I don't see why new weapons shouldn't have been. Then that allows the possibility of those jobs getting something built for them (though you never know when it comes to SE...) instead of something made before their existence without their consideration.

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I disagree, really. That would probably be more work to do than just adding the jobs to existing weapons.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

I disagree, really. That would probably be more work to do than just adding the jobs to existing weapons.

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More work, but higher quality result.