Nerfing Ukko/Vsmite so lazy players can be more useful?

The company went to hell after they combined with Enix. They were both great RPG companies but Squaresoft was always the company when they said were releasing a game you knew it was special.

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Originally Posted by Avidon

Lazy. If you don't have an Empy, you are Lazy? According to what we all know, Empies are SOOO Easy to get, but how many Empy holders have a Relic/Mythic? IF not, why? Is it too hard to get? Too time consuming? Or are you Lazy?

I am Lazy. When I log in to play my game, I put on some comfy pants, kick my feet up, and become the most laziest useless human being. There's no agenda, no drama, no one telling me what to do, and absolutely no pressure from the world.

The point: Don't make Lazy a bad word. I like that word. Rather, use a word like... hmm... Content? Yeah, Content works, because like me, and a lot of people I know, we aren't really into the whole concept of having the best of the best. I am content with what I have that makes me functional at my jobs. Get what gets the job done and move on with your life.

If you have everything you want, I applaud you, because you worked hard for it and that's respectable. But don't call people's character into question into a negative light because they don't share the same goals as you.

Besides, half the people with the "Epic Win here Win there, Win Win everywhere" gear still don't know how to play the game. they just happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right people.

Hi, I am Avidon. Lazy and Proud. (It's what gaming is all about.) :)

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THIS!!! one of the best said posts *ever*. thank you for finding the words i have not been able to string together myself!
i am bookong-lazy and proud with you, brother. :)

That's fine and dandy that people have different play styles and such, and want to relax. But nobody that uses a merited ws should be able to outdamage anyone with an empyrean/mythic/relic/woe weapon in similiar gear set. You dont want to make one that's fine, I wouldn't call anyone lazy for that, but when the developers think it's ok to make casual playing the same level as those who do invest more into the game, then you get people on here who are upset and call others names. the lazy comment is wrong, but the agruement behind it about merited ws being able to compete on the same level as empyreams and unko and war getting there power reduced not by a little but majorly is a big issue here.

Balance and risk/rewards is supposed to reward those who risk and work the hardest the most, otherwise we should all just be casual players. I don't spend days+++++ of solo farming for an empyrean or relic just to be doing the same ws damage as a casual player.

It's not a major power reduction and it absolutely does not affect where WAR stands on a relative scale at all. People should've waited for testing to be concluded before having conniption fits. Now they just look stupid for crying over nothing.

That said, why in the bloody blue blazes do I actually agree with the rest of Amaday's post?

Why the hell are the rest of you making this happen?

Stop being dumb. I don't like this one bit.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

99 % of being a good player is gearing well, the other 1% is casting knowing when to cancel utsusemi

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BS. 99% of being a good player is preparing for the fight properly and following the recipe for success without screwing up. Almost all NM battles can be defeated by players in average AH gear. They may go smoother with a few less people for the top geared players, but if everyone has adequate gear, almost all can be defeated. The upgrades for the top gear in this game have always only afforded modest improvements over lesser gear. That's half the populations complaint is that new gear and WS added since Abyssea have been too sidegradish. That's FFXI.

I also agree that using the term "lazy" in reference to videogame players is about as ludicrous as anything. Working hard in this game affords you no wage, no creature comforts, no long term security, no benefits. Anyone with a modicum of brains would realize its far more important to work hard in real life and relax in a gaming world, not the vice versa.

i hate to burst peoples bubbles but getting relics is cake now. getting 400 coins a run with 2 people is simple. you can get 2-4k coins in one night with a full alliance spread across a dream zone. a LS can finish a Relic in under a month, a solo person can finish in about 3-4 months. not nearly as bad as the 3 years it would take someone to do coins w/o buying back at 75.

Wait, there are still people in this game gullible enough to have an entire alliance build one person's relic?

Some people never learn.

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Originally Posted by Seijuro

Are they just trying to get ppl to use the GIMP new WAR/MONK Non-Crit WS?
Or maybe make it so lazy players who don't spend time making empy can have an edge over ppl who spent time to farm them.

This really pisses me off.

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The problem with your line of thinking Seijuro is that you have it all wrong, the casuals have no care about that as they are the ones that probably have empy weapons. the ones that you probably have to blame are the ones that are not "lazy" as you call them and "worked" for thier relic weapons back in the day and do not like seeing all thier hard work get beaten by "lazy" johnny come lately much like youself who took the easy way out and got an empy when abyssea was released. I mean, look at it logically, what do the casuals care if you have a sword of pwn+1, they play thier game and have fun, but the ones that care that you outdamage them with some upstart weapon that only took you less than a year to get, those are the ones you might want to look at.

I think you're a bit too quick to lay blame here, you might as well call them baddies and keyboard turners, and put that empy of yours on your resume for your next job and tell them how great you are for having one.

I figured this was a joke thread because this it implies that WARs and MNKs with Empyrean weapons aren't lazy. By that logic Mythic and Relic Great Axe/h2h should be vastly superior compared to Empyrean since they require months, if not years to acquire while an emp can be done in minimum 2 days, average a week or two.

How everyone who isn't a WAR or a MNK feels about this.

The people defending this want to say: Why not make all the other jobs stronger, instead of making us weaker.

Well let's examine that.

If they made other jobs stronger, let's say that made DRG and Drakesbane stronger. How would the community feel as a whole, to see that their Empyrean GA Level 95 can't touch a Polearm that OAT's with 110 Damage?

It's the same issue.

Why should people who invest a month at max to take an Empyrean from 80->90 be even considered top contenders against weapons such as: Mythic, and or Relic(Which until recently instead of a 2-3 year trial, became a 5 month trial solo) be the best of the best?

You can't say not having an Empyrean is lazy. Saying not having a Magian weapon is more so correct. Due to the fact that not all of these Empyreans are the best in their caliber. By the same means, they aren't balanced.

The DEV team, the COMMUNITY agree that Empyreans are not balanced. Why is this suddenly a surprise?

Why is it that every other forum talks about: When are they balancing mythics, and relics? Suddenly because you gain a weapon that breaks your job you're entitled to defending it?

Let's not forget abyssea is mini expansion content. You didn't buy a Expansion Pack and dedicate years to it. You bought a mini-expansion that had toys. Why on earth, are those toys deemed the best? Why should they even be allowed to belittle old content?

Now everyone is screaming, SAM nerf. Okay, so what if it does happen then what? Can people argue that SAM nerf is justifiable? If so, and if the community sees it, it might happen. Can we foresee a Jishnu's Raidiance nerf? Possibly. They stated this wasn't the end all, there will be more adjustments. Both to new WS and old.

So, at the end of the day which WS are "over powered"?

Think. They want to make it a baseline of 10% Crit Rate - 15% Crit rate and call that a norm, considering HQ being 15%. Hence Ukko's, V. Smite.

At 99, what can the dev team offer players besides Gear? What if this new gear is so amazingly broken that having powerful ws's with such crazy mods wouldn't work?

I don't think it's Tanaka's doing. However, if they had a body, that had +15% Critical Hit Damage, and +15% Critical Hit Rate, and +15% Double Attack Damage. Who would benefit the greatest from it?

A job with a 10% Crit WS, or a Job with a 30% Crit WS @100%? Which job would become bandwagon due to when being geared, being insane?

It's simple.

This is end game. Nerfing will come, provisionally to allow for better abilities, gear, weapons? Maybe.

However sitting here crying for things that don't fit the norm is silly. It's not a bash against Warrior or Monk, both great traditional jobs. It's a bash against inconsistency. Should the nerf of happened sooner? Yeah. Did it? No, too late.

At this point, it's what it is.

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Originally Posted by hideka

i hate to burst peoples bubbles but getting relics is cake now. getting 400 coins a run with 2 people is simple. you can get 2-4k coins in one night with a full alliance spread across a dream zone. a LS can finish a Relic in under a month, a solo person can finish in about 3-4 months. not nearly as bad as the 3 years it would take someone to do coins w/o buying back at 75.

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What? Any mediocre dynamis LS would pull in 500-1000 coins a week. Factoring in dreamland and northland runs if your shell actually gave a crap about what other people wanted it would take maybe 6 months to finish a relic without ever buying a single piece of currency. That's about 150 hours of personal time invested which is about the same as it takes now to solo or DB a relic. It may only take 2 months but that's because you can go every day. It still takes the same amount of personal time investment. Now you just don't need 17-35 extra people who get the short end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

What? Any mediocre dynamis LS would pull in 500-1000 coins a week. Factoring in dreamland and northland runs if your shell actually gave a crap about what other people wanted it would take maybe 6 months to finish a relic without ever buying a single piece of currency.

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This assumes that the currency all goes toward one persons relic. I can't speak for all dynamis linkshells, but I would assume most of them worked on several relics at once. Relic weapons were a commitment that you had to show that you were going to be in for the long haul for to most linkshells.

Also, you can't compare your own personal time to the amount of man hours it took with a full group clearing. A relic back then took multitudes more time and way more money. People forget glasses used to cost an arm and a leg?

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

How everyone who isn't a WAR or a MNK feels about this.

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You can stop being a fucking retard right about now because you're wrong and people across the board are unhappy with this nerf.

Have a happy holiday anyway.

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Originally Posted by Amador

The people defending this want to say: Why not make all the other jobs stronger, instead of making us weaker.

Well let's examine that.

If they made other jobs stronger, let's say that made DRG and Drakesbane stronger. How would the community feel as a whole, to see that their Empyrean GA Level 95 can't touch a Polearm that OAT's with 110 Damage?

It's the same issue.

Why should people who invest a month at max to take an Empyrean from 80->90 be even considered top contenders against weapons such as: Mythic, and or Relic(Which until recently instead of a 2-3 year trial, became a 5 month trial solo) be the best of the best?

You can't say not having an Empyrean is lazy. Saying not having a Magian weapon is more so correct. Due to the fact that not all of these Empyreans are the best in their caliber. By the same means, they aren't balanced.

The DEV team, the COMMUNITY agree that Empyreans are not balanced. Why is this suddenly a surprise?

Why is it that every other forum talks about: When are they balancing mythics, and relics? Suddenly because you gain a weapon that breaks your job you're entitled to defending it?

Let's not forget abyssea is mini expansion content. You didn't buy a Expansion Pack and dedicate years to it. You bought a mini-expansion that had toys. Why on earth, are those toys deemed the best? Why should they even be allowed to belittle old content?

Now everyone is screaming, SAM nerf. Okay, so what if it does happen then what? Can people argue that SAM nerf is justifiable? If so, and if the community sees it, it might happen. Can we foresee a Jishnu's Raidiance nerf? Possibly. They stated this wasn't the end all, there will be more adjustments. Both to new WS and old.

So, at the end of the day which WS are "over powered"?

Think. They want to make it a baseline of 10% Crit Rate - 15% Crit rate and call that a norm, considering HQ being 15%. Hence Ukko's, V. Smite.

At 99, what can the dev team offer players besides Gear? What if this new gear is so amazingly broken that having powerful ws's with such crazy mods wouldn't work?

I don't think it's Tanaka's doing. However, if they had a body, that had +15% Critical Hit Damage, and +15% Critical Hit Rate, and +15% Double Attack Damage. Who would benefit the greatest from it?

A job with a 10% Crit WS, or a Job with a 30% Crit WS @100%? Which job would become bandwagon due to when being geared, being insane?

It's simple.

This is end game. Nerfing will come, provisionally to allow for better abilities, gear, weapons? Maybe.

However sitting here crying for things that don't fit the norm is silly. It's not a bash against Warrior or Monk, both great traditional jobs. It's a bash against inconsistency. Should the nerf of happened sooner? Yeah. Did it? No, too late.

At this point, it's what it is.

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Raging Rush has +15% crit rate, vorpal is 5-10%, evis is 10%, drakes is probably 5% and has an attack penalty, rampage and blade: jin is 5%, backhand blow is 40%, True Strike is 100%. Where the heck do you get 10% being the norm and 15% 'HQ'?

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

How everyone who isn't a WAR or a MNK feels about this.

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You've really been the most grossly immature of the bunch since the announcement of this adjustment - especially considering it doesn't really affect the job hierarchy at all. Is there a point in all of this spam? Honestly, the nerfs aren't nearly so bad as to merit the conniption fits some people are having, but you're setting an equally bad example by parading around and rubbing this in people's faces.

You know you've probably taken this game too seriously when you develop a victim's complex over the adjustments made to your primary job and the buffs given to other jobs that share the same skill sets. Now, what, you want to watch every powerful job burn so that they can all feel like you apparently feel now on Thief? Heh. You're the type who wouldn't be happy even if Thief was buffed to unimaginable levels. You don't care about balance, you just want everyone else to suffer. And you know what? This nerf wasn't even that bad. Save your ire for a real nerf - cheering on a minor decrease in WS damage just makes you look silly and grossly uninformed.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You've really been the most grossly immature of the bunch since the announcement of this adjustment - especially considering it doesn't really affect the job hierarchy at all. Is there a point in all of this spam? Honestly, the nerfs aren't nearly so bad as to merit the conniption fits some people are having, but you're setting an equally bad example by parading around and rubbing this in people's faces.

You know you've probably taken this game too seriously when you develop a victim's complex over the adjustments made to your primary job and the buffs given to other jobs that share the same skill sets. Now, what, you want to watch every powerful job burn so that they can all feel like you apparently feel now on Thief? Heh. You're the type who wouldn't be happy even if Thief was buffed to unimaginable levels. You don't care about balance, you just want everyone else to suffer. And you know what? This nerf wasn't even that bad. Save your ire for a real nerf - cheering on a minor decrease in WS damage just makes you look silly and grossly uninformed.

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careful you might hurt his feelings

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Originally Posted by Scribble

This assumes that the currency all goes toward one persons relic. I can't speak for all dynamis linkshells, but I would assume most of them worked on several relics at once. Relic weapons were a commitment that you had to show that you were going to be in for the long haul for to most linkshells.

Also, you can't compare your own personal time to the amount of man hours it took with a full group clearing. A relic back then took multitudes more time and way more money. People forget glasses used to cost an arm and a leg?

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It doesn't effect the amount of work the person actually receiving the relic has to put in. It just removes from the equation, the people not getting anything but shitty armor out of the runs. The only thing that is a load off of the relic upgrader is the cost of the glass which they usually just paid for with sold currency anyway and the hassle of setting up the runs and organizing the LS if they even had to do that. Making a relic is still time consuming just like it was before but now it's realistic for more people because you don't have to have an LS following you as a resource to complete one. Ive completed a relic under both dynamis systems and it wasn't particularly harder in either. The old system just seemed harder because of the wait time between runs and zone lock outs and stupid crap like that.

although my sig says my main is war its not its thf, i only use war for abyssea proc's and i don't have that ws. just my opinion i don't like any nerf as at some stage a war with that ws will have helped me get xp faster in abyssea or possibly many other things.

Make one of us stronger you make us all stronger, weaken one of us you weaken us all

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

The only thing that is a load off of the relic upgrader is the cost of the glass which they usually just paid for with sold currency anyway and the hassle of setting up the runs and organizing the LS if they even had to do that.

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If you're upgrading relics then you're not selling currency... Regardless it still took more time and money back then.

Basically what you're saying is that a person who can only work part-time would be able to save up as much money as someone who works everyday. Not only that but the person who can work all week doesn't have to pay for 'transportation'. How the hell does that work?

Backhand Blow and Truestrike, real solid choices of VERY POWERFUL WEAPONSKILLS. What a joke. Please, go figure out what the Critical Hit Rate is for Blade: Rin and Power Slash!

It might just help your argument out more! Not.

I'll add it as soon as someone goes and tests it. You couldn't even tell me what Ascetic's Fury or Skewer's crit rate is now could you?

The point remains, there is no uniform 'NQ' or 'HQ' crit rate between crit ws. SE decided them on pretty much a whim.

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Originally Posted by Buffy

5% damage is a lot, lol. It takes a 5500 WS down to 5300.

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can't tell if serious....?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Speaking of people not buying FF games! I just saw this news story about how bad the sales are for FF13-2. Maybe SE will get a clue soon.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/1...ntasy-is-dead/

Opening paragraph really says it all.
"Final Fantasy XIII-2′s first week sales figures reveal it has been outsold by Tales of Xillia, a fact which is being greeted as a massive humiliation and confirmation that the Final Fantasy brand now lies in ruins."

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Well, 13 was garbage in its own right so we need not consider 14's (or 11's) problems when evaluating whether we want to spend money on a direct sequel to a game of which my most salient impression was "I paid $60 to listen to Vanille?"

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Originally Posted by Scribble

If you're upgrading relics then you're not selling currency... Regardless it still took more time and money back then.

Basically what you're saying is that a person who can only work part-time would be able to save up as much money as someone who works everyday. Not only that but the person who can work all week doesn't have to pay for 'transportation'. How the hell does that work?

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I'm not trying to come off as an elitist here but have you made a relic under either system? You sound like you are regurgitating what other people are regurgitating.

What I'm saying is that if they both make 10 dollars an hour they both make 400 dollars after working 40 hours. Even if it takes the guy working part time a month of working 10 hours a week. They both put in the same amount of work. 500k was a joke and you could make that by selling 30-40 currency if you even needed to. Yes it's easier to make a relic now but is it THAT much easier? Not really. SE removed the artificial RL time roadblocks and the need to have a huge group of unselfish souls to sacrifice. Personal time investment, while less, is still similar. That's my point.

Edit: I just thought of 2 things that are wayyy easier under the new system. Getting your attest and fragment. So I will give you that too.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Wait, there are still people in this game gullible enough to have an entire alliance build one person's relic?

Some people never learn.

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it's a little different these days, not when a last stage only takes 2 weeks and everyone's getting steps and -1 items.

more so after about 6 years of playing if you're still associating with people that will fuck you over, you deserve to be fucked,

I understood your point. You made it sound as though it hadn't become any easier to get your currency than it was, but it has. I have a relic that was made during the old system, but I farmed to pay for outside currency because I wanted to complete it in less than a decade.

Remember million dollar hourglasses? That's how much they were when I was doing most of my dynamis. If you'd removed the price of the hourglass and instead spent it on currency, a person could gather enough for a relic in just over a year. I understand your point, but you aren't making it when you try to trivialize stuff that is significant for most people.

Your analogy is wrong too. You're forgetting the lockout period. There are two 72 hour lockouts in a week so 2 runs @ $10/hour for 2 hours is $40. Under the new system you get two hours a day every day of the week which is 7 runs @ $10/hour for 2 hours or $140. That alone is a big difference but when you consider that the first guy has to split his earnings with his coworkers as well as paying for transportation...

c'mon Tanaka just triple sam ws damage like youve always wanted and stop nerfing others.

Know what would be even more delicious? If SE changes their mind and leaves WAR and MNK alone, and then buffs everyone else just as they were asked and as a result WAR and MNK end up being as far below some other DD in damage as everyone else is below WAR and MNK right now.

Do it SE, DO IT!

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Know what would be even more delicious? If SE changes their mind and leaves WAR and MNK alone, and then buffs everyone else just as they were asked and as a result WAR and MNK end up being as far below some other DD in damage as everyone else is below WAR and MNK right now.

Do it SE, DO IT!

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These forums aren't big enough to handle that much epic emo and to think they called dark the emo knight. There has never been this much complaining done dark side about something so minor. I think for the most part we just complaning about idiotic abilities/traits that are clearly useless for us. I have accepted sam as the great king of the DD and it shall always be #1, however, I guess SE will adjust the #2 spot accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

These forums aren't big enough to handle that much epic emo and to think they called dark the emo knight. There has never been this much complaining done dark side about something so minor. I think for the most part we just complaning about idiotic abilities/traits that are clearly useless for us. I have accepted sam as the great king of the DD and it shall always be #1, however, I guess SE will adjust the #2 spot accordingly.

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Never been this much complaining about DRK? Are you, like, for serious serious?

PUP getting Dread Spikes

Whatever the hell that JA they just added was called, the one where you take damage

Blah blah whine blah blah dark magic blah blah Urteil.

Every month it's a new DRK thread, even if there isn't an update. The crying over this minor nerf was terrible, but DRK is a whole other league.

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Originally Posted by Buffy

5% damage is a lot, lol. It takes a 5500 WS down to 5300.

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you mean 5225...lrn2math

Hello.

Thanks for all the feedback on this topic.

Sorry it took a bit to give you this information, but as I am sure you all read, we were out for the holidays.

There have been some comments asking for other weapon skills to be adjusted so that they are stronger. We actually looked into this, but due to the very large differences in values we determined it would be difficult because of the way it would tie into the balance of power between jobs. (In the case that things stayed the way they are, the chances that future abilities and equipment would have lower stats or simply not be possible to add would become increasingly high.)

The principle behind the current weapon skill adjustment follows the same principles for the aims of why warrior has been adjusted (Restraint, etc.):

1. Prevent becoming overpowered
2. Establish balance between warrior and other jobs (make it easier to balance)

　
The below adjustments have been set up on the test server.
This is the chance of critical hit for TP100%/200%/300% respectively.

• Ukko’s Fury
  Before adjustment: 30%/50%/80%
  　↓
  Test server version: 15%/25%/40%
  
  
• Victory Smite
  Before adjustment: 15%/30%/60%
  　↓
  Test server version: 10%/20%/35%

Since there are other abilities and equipment to take into account, although I cannot affirm anything just yet, we would like to see if we can perhaps raise the critical hit rate a bit after looking at your feedback and development/QA testing.

We will be putting the re-adjusted data onto the test server during the first update of the New Year and would like to continue to test this.

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we would like to see if we can perhaps lower the critical hit rate a bit after looking at your feedback and development/QA testing.

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I need to drink more war tears please. So delicious.

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Ukko’s Fury
Before adjustment: 30%/50%/80%

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Anyone who insists that this was not overpowered is either lying to themselves or just plain lying.

Oh no! So instead of doing 6k Ukko's Fury to Qilin they'll do 3k! Which is still 1k higher than NIN DRK DRG THF DNC RNG PUP COR MNK. WARs are lucky thats all the nerf they're getting. Even WITH the nerf, Ukko's is still BY FAR the strongest Empyrean WS, these updates are meant to bring it down on par with other emps that 15/25/40 crit% is the same as CDC/Hi and a few other crit WS, so in my eyes, it's fine.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello.

Thanks for all the feedback on this topic.

Sorry it took a bit to give you this information, but as I am sure you all read, we were out for the holidays.

There have been some comments asking for other weapon skills to be adjusted so that they are stronger. We actually looked into this, but due to the very large differences in values we determined it would be difficult because of the way it would tie into the balance of power between jobs. (In the case that things stayed the way they are, the chances that future abilities and equipment would have lower stats or simply not be possible to add would become increasingly high.)

The principle behind the current weapon skill adjustment follows the same principles for the aims of why warrior has been adjusted (Restraint, etc.):

1. Prevent becoming overpowered
2. Establish balance between warrior and other jobs (make it easier to balance)

　
The below adjustments have been set up on the test server.
This is the chance of critical hit for TP100%/200%/300% respectively.

• Ukko’s Fury
  Before adjustment: 30%/50%/80%
  　↓
  Test server version: 15%/25%/40%
• Victory Smite
  Before adjustment: 15%/30%/60%
  　↓
  Test server version: 10%/20%/35%

Since there are other abilities and equipment to take into account, although I cannot affirm anything just yet, we would like to see if we can perhaps raise the critical hit rate a bit after looking at your feedback and development/QA testing.

We will be putting the re-adjusted data onto the test server during the first update of the New Year and would like to continue to test this.

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I can understand the reasoning behind the changes, and to an extent I agree with the Ukko's change, but I don't really think that Victory Smite is in the same boat (I suppose that's why it wasn't reduced as heavily); I also don't feel that an ability that provides a strong buff that can only be active 10% of the time at best really needs to be nerfed either.

I do hope that it is shown that these nerfs are a bit on the heavy-handed side.

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Oh no! So instead of doing 6k Ukko's Fury to Qilin they'll do 3k! Which is still 1k higher than NIN DRK DRG THF DNC RNG PUP COR MNK. WARs are lucky thats all the nerf they're getting

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VIctory Smite is nowhere near the kind of broken power that Ukko's is, and I don't understand why it's being nerfed at all. I use it on PUP all the time (I can't speak for other people, but for me, it's outperforming Pummel, at least in Abyssea, and it skillchains better), so this can adfersely effect PUPs (not very much, but it certainly doesn't help them at all).

I agree that Ukko's needs a tone down, I don't agree that Victory Smite does also.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Oh no! So instead of doing 6k Ukko's Fury to Qilin they'll do 3k! Which is still 1k higher than NIN DRK DRG THF DNC RNG PUP COR MNK. WARs are lucky thats all the nerf they're getting. Even WITH the nerf, Ukko's is still BY FAR the strongest Empyrean WS, these updates are meant to bring it down on par with other emps that 15/25/40 crit% is the same as CDC/Hi and a few other crit WS, so in my eyes, it's fine.

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Since when NIN THF DRG DRK PUP COR are heavy DD. Yeah Ukko fury is overpowered but they should't cut crit rate by half - this is not fair. WAR got that power because he dont have defensive abilities - loldefender.

SE still don't get it. You just piss people off by achieving "balance" by nerfing. You make people happy by achieving balance by strengthening the weaker jobs. If this was my business, I would be trying to make my subscribers happy, not piss them off.

I'm not a war btw.

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Originally Posted by Ragni

Since when NIN THF DRG DRK PUP COR are heavy DD. Yeah Ukko fury is overpowered but they should't cut crit rate by half - this is not fair. WAR got that power because he dont have defensive abilities - loldefender.

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I am a war, do you know how much -pdt -mdt and -damage taken in general gear there is out for war? Alot! War is one of the jobs with the option to play defensiv and still pump out dmg due to retalation while tanking.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

SE still don't get it. You just piss people off by achieving "balance" by nerfing. You make people happy by achieving balance by strengthening the weaker jobs. If this was my business, I would be trying to make my subscribers happy, not piss them off.

I'm not a war btw.

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Wrong! WAR is seriously over-powered, if they upped other jobs it'd do nothing but make them equally over-powered.

You balance it to non over-powered first, then equal the other jobs that do the same role (aka DD's) to that area.