Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

The why so has been outlined and the reasons against have been methodically adressed.

Some people want it done. It would add more content for those jobs that players would like to access.

The negative arguments as to how it would mechanically break the game have been (vaguely) addressed (i could start putting out damage formula numbers and whatnot if you need proof that these weapons are not even near the top of the 'power' pile, but you have even admitted that they are not OP). The lore and other issues have been discussed without much hooplah.

Every reason (expressed) has been addressed at this point. The only argument left is "it would take up valuable dev time" which is responded to with "Changing a job on an item has got to be about the simplist/fastest thing possible". Obviously neither of us are SE devs, but im sure we can agree it has to be on the easy side of the spectrum. Will it actually take 10 min or 2 hours neither of us can factually state. Only that it is simple relative to other changes to the game.

When something is desired and all reasons not to do it are dispelled, you do it. If you want all jobs on Kclub then id suggest making a simlar thread for it. SE is not some all knowing entity that never falters. Maybe new jobs should be on Kclub. Just because 1 guy didnt get what he wants is NOT justification to deny someone else a toy. Thats just petty and spiteful.

I want a candy bar!
"It costs to much money!" // "Cupon. Its 5C."
"Its bad for your teeth!" // "/pulls out toothbrush for use after"
"No one can take you to the store!" // "Stores across the street. Ill walk."
"Its to many calories!" // "I do 3-a-days for football 5 days a week"
"You havent finished your HW!" // "/hands over finished HW"
"Well...I cant think of a reason you DO need a candy bar. Prove to me you need one!" // "/facepalm. Its because i WANT one and you can provide no reason i shouldnt"

The REASON is desire. Thats it. Some people desire it. They do not need to make you desire it for theirs to exist. If something is desired, can be provided for vitually no cost, and has no negative effects on anyone, and wont piss off a billion people, then there is no other justification required in regards to a videogame update.

You are saying those in favor must prove a need for it otherwise its not worth doing. Its a game. No one needs anything, let alone be able to prove to someone else. The desire is adequate justification in that situation. There must be a strong negative in-game consequence(balance), playerbase backlash, or prohibitive costs. If there are none of those, then desire alone is enough justification. So far, the only hurdle presented is how much dev time it will take because none of us know that answer explicitly. This is where an SE dev would tell us what the dev team think about feasibility.

The "Why so" category once all qualms have been addressed is just defending the status quo for the sake of the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, and I see no problem with this. It's my opinion on this one topic, and you gave my opinion on one other topic. These do not conflict. If I don't like the idea of something, I'm going to say so. If I do like the idea of something I'm going to say so.

I do not argue just to argue. I simply see no reason for this. It doesn't benefit me, and I don't see how it benefits anyone else, either. I guess the real reason is people support this is they have relic weapons already and don't want to get an empyrean. Why do we have to change all the old stuff when new stuff comes out?

Should I really support something I don't agree with just because various other people support it? That doesn't make sense.

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You absolutely argue just to argue and if you don't believe that you need to do some serious soul searching. Your opinions are clearly conflicted. The only difference between these 2 topics is that one benefits you (technically if you waste your CP on teleports you are costing yourself gil but w/e) and the other benefits other people. Neither one hurts anyone unless you want to count the dev time used for both "unneeded" changes then they both hurt people equally. The core of your argument against this change directly conflicts with your argument for CP teleports. All you do is jam up threads with pointless bickering on subjects that most of the time don't even remotely effect you and you post so god damn much that if I ignore you it's hard to tell what's even going on in a thread but I'm going to do it anyway so I don't waste any more time on you.

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I'm going to do it anyway so I don't waste any more time on you.

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Believe me, you'll be doing a me a huge favor.

You gotta love this forum. Agree with the majority or get hated to death.

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Originally Posted by Briarb19

SCH on Claustrum - Arguably, this is really not a strong weapon that offers anything game breaking to SCH, so there should be no issues adding them merely for completion's sake (sorry SCHs).

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Figured I'd mention that SCH would probably end up on Mjollnir instead if we take the "charge up for relic WS" weapons at face value.

It doesn't really change the argument, other than that it makes SCH melee slightly more viable (as in, it goes from "hell no" to "is that a rel--hell no").

I think besides everything that's been mentioned, the imbalance of this is really justification enough. Based on the fact that SE added relic gear to Dynamis for the ToAU and WotG jobs proves that they acknowledged the imbalance associated with leaving new jobs off an aspect of the game that was innately available to every other job - relic armor. Why should they be left off the relic weapons? Simply put, they shouldn't be. Every job in the game should be able to make an Empy, a Mythic, AND a Relic.

Saying "Well you can use Mythic and Empy, so use that" is simply not justification.

I really feel like SE should at least dignify our request with a response, even if it's a simple "I'm sorry, but we have chosen not to implement this change." At least we know we're being heard in that case. Anyone agree?

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

What does putting DNC on Mandau have to do with THF? Most theoretical Mandau DNC would also be THF so you're just bitching to bitch?

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THF is supposed to be the master of daggers but SE has basically made DNC into "THF only better!" I don't want to see one of the few things remaining that is THF's given over to DNC.

And no, RDM and BRD don't count.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The forum has a search function.

If you can't find the evidence, than as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't exist.

You can't just say stuff then not back up your claims when someone puts you on the spot.

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Pain in the ass to find it but here you go.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post145664

That doesn't qualify as a source for him I'm sure. Now please go write a 5 page thesis on the topic with a works cited page, I think that the only thing he would accept.
Why is it every post I see of Alhanelem is "SOURCES OR ITS NOT TRUE!" Must be sad being that angry and untrusting at literally ALL times.

While we are at it, should add DNC and SCH to salvage gear. And add SCH and DNC to some sky sets. Totally stupid to not add DNC and SCH to salvage gear. They got added to Nyzul Isle.

I strongly support that the five newer jobs should have relics, and I really would like to see SE respond to this. IF it's a no, I would like a reason why this is so. AS it stands this changes nothing in terms of balance.

Also, once again, THF doesn't lose anything when DNC has access to Mandau. THF is still better with dagger skill and have higher evasion. Let's also not forget that they have SATA, as well as native triple attack and bully, and of course whatever future abilities they get.

Oh yes, and I've been main THF for 5 years, and is very close to finishing Mandau, as I'm on my final stage. (Just taking a break due to unforeseen circumstances.)

Really though, the job vs job hate needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

THF is supposed to be the master of daggers but SE has basically made DNC into "THF only better!" I don't want to see one of the few things remaining that is THF's given over to DNC.

And no, RDM and BRD don't count.

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Where are you getting all this stuff? It sounds like you're expecting THF to be a top DD or something.

And stealing? THF has such a tremendous amount of gear and weapons compared to DNC.
I still don't understand why DNC can't use Homam or Skadi sets.

-edit-

One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties? THF. Who ever needs a DNC for endgame? No one.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

Where are you getting all this stuff? It sounds like you're expecting THF to be a top DD or something.

And stealing? THF has such a tremendous amount of gear and weapons compared to DNC.
I still don't understand why DNC can't use Homam or Skadi sets.

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Honestly, when that came out, it bugged me a great deal, then when the Relic/Af came out, I was content enough to ignore it.

Also, THF can be a very good DD if used correctly. Most people think Dagger = Weak. SATA iand their WS is what makes THF shine, and even with all the abilities Dancers have, THFs will still shine.

Also, with all the "Stealing abilities" hate that THF has been calling, ESPECIALLY treasure hunter, consider this:

With Bounty Hunter, they only get TH1. THF still get at the most, with all the gears, TH6, without all the gears, TH3 natively. Same thing applies to BLU's new Treasure Hunter job trait that they got with the last update. All things consider, THF is still the top for this.

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One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties? THF. Who ever needs a DNC for endgame? No one.

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Personally, when it comes to endgame, both jobs can shine nicely. DNC can easily tank due to fan dance and ability to cure themselves, where THF can easily tank due to much higher evasion.

THF, though, is more preferred because of Treasure Hunter as well.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Pain in the ass to find it but here you go.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post145664

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They definitely literally talk about adding new properties. While that doesn't necessarily mean "jobs," it does mean that it's more than just an incremental improvement. Kudos for actually following through.

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That doesn't qualify as a source for him I'm sure.

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Why would I not accept legitimate evidence that someone, upon my own request, took the time to find, and is a translation of an staff member post? I'm not that dense. It's not unreasonable to ask someone to provide evidence to back up their arguments.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Also, once again, THF doesn't lose anything when DNC has access to Mandau. THF is still better with dagger skill

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DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

And DNC hasn't been behind THF on gear since Abyssea and Voidwatch.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

With Bounty Hunter, they only get TH1..

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Bounty Shot is TH2, and it's fairly easy to proc up to TH4 reliably. And anything above TH3 is pretty much unnoticeable anyway.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties?

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Neither.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Personally, when it comes to endgame, both jobs can shine nicely. DNC can easily tank due to fan dance and ability to cure themselves, where THF can easily tank due to much higher evasion.

THF, though, is more preferred because of Treasure Hunter as well.

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Well DNC can tank better than THF, it still however doesn't get invited to Abyssea parties or parties outside Abyssea.
No one specifically needs a DNC ever.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

And DNC hasn't been behind THF on gear since Abyssea and Voidwatch.

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How exactly is this stealing though? If THF didn't have it before DNC.
Well as long as i'm face to face with the monster i'm fighting, my evasion will be 391(closed position merits).

I hope you aren't talking about Ternary Flourish though cause that move is absolutely terrible.
THF has plenty of stuff and gets invited to parties. Thanks to Abyssea being THF is way popular than it use to be.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Neither.

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You must be playing a totally different game than.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

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Pretty sure Dagger skill > Accuracy bonus. Also not to mention that SATA nearly perfect accuracy, unless the mob have Perfect dodge up, or ninjutsu shadows.

Also, as for Climatic Flourish, while yes it is a forced critical hit, it has much longer recast timer (Once every minute and a half), and requires finishing moves, and it consumes all of it. SATA is still more efficient.

As for Ternary Flourish, yes, it does forces triple attack, but like before, it requires finishing moves (3 of them), and can only be done once every 2 and a half minutes, and shares the same recast timer with Climatic Flourish, which also shares the same recast as Striking Flourish. In my experience, I very rarely found a reason to use Ternary, let alike Striking Flourish and only find myself using Climactic Flourish.

SATA is still far more efficient than Climatic flourish. You have two Forced critical hit moves that you can use every minute. Both of them can be reduced down to 50 seconds recast.

The bottom-line is, people need to get over the "Other jobs need to stop stealing from THF" because seriously. I don't see it, and even if they do take it, THF still performs it far more superior and cannot be replaced by other jobs.

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Bounty Shot is TH2, and it's fairly easy to proc up to TH4 reliably. And anything above TH3 is pretty much unnoticeable anyway.

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Moot point. Pretty sure SE has proven that higher TH will always have a chance to yield better drop, even at TH9 and TH10. Besides, which job is more likely to be called on for Treasure hunter purpose. THF or Ranger? Yeah. I thought so too.

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Neither.

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Pretty sure my THF and DNC gets invited all the time. Both of the jobs perform very well in abysse, after all.

All in All, allowing Dancer to wield Mandau harms nothing, andIt doesn't make Thief any less unique.

What I see here:
"I have an opinion on something!"
"I have one too!"
"Your opinion isn't good enough!"
"But it's my opinion, yours is yours!"
"You suck!"
"Why?"
"You really do!"

With flavours of actual discussion in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Pretty sure Dagger skill > Accuracy bonus. Also not to mention that SATA nearly perfect accuracy, unless the mob have Perfect dodge up, or ninjutsu shadows.

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Below 200 skill 1 dagger skill = 1 ACC, above 200 skill 1 dagger skill = 0.9ACC. There's nothing inherently "better" about ACC and ATT from skill vs from other sources.

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Also, as for Climatic Flourish, while yes it is a forced critical hit, it has much longer recast timer (Once every minute and a half), and requires finishing moves, and it consumes all of it. SATA is still more efficient.

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It can be used from any angle, that in itself is better.

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SATA is still far more efficient than Climatic flourish. You have two Forced critical hit moves that you can use every minute. Both of them can be reduced down to 50 seconds recast.

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Except that SA won't work unless you are behind the mob.

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As for Ternary Flourish, yes, it does forces triple attack, but like before, it requires finishing moves (3 of them), and can only be done once every 2 and a half minutes, and shares the same recast timer with Climatic Flourish, which also shares the same recast as Striking Flourish.

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Assassin's Charge has a recast of 5 minutes with max merits.

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Moot point. Pretty sure SE has proven that higher TH will always have a chance to yield better drop, even at TH9 and TH10. Besides, which job is more likely to be called on for Treasure hunter purpose. THF or Ranger? Yeah. I thought so too.

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They would have had to kill thousands of mobs to prove anything with that test. Any independent tests that have been done with higher tiers of TH have shown it to be virtually unnoticeable in the statistical noise.

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All in All, allowing Dancer to wield Mandau harms nothing

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It harms THF. It's the final nail in the coffin that says "Attention THFs, DNC is your new replacement"

This THF vs. DNC argument is wayyy off topic and Mandau DNC isn't going to be any better than a Twashtar DNC already is. The fact is every job deserves access to at least 1 relic because it may be the only feasible option for some players to take to 95 and maybe 99.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

This THF vs. DNC argument is wayyy off topic and Mandau DNC isn't going to be any better than a Twashtar DNC already is. The fact is every job deserves access to at least 1 relic because it may be the only feasible option for some players to take to 95 and maybe 99.

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IF SE ends up increasing the relics power at 99 as much as they have hinted at you can bet that the 99 stage will be "collect an impossible number of some item" In fact I kind of hope that it is.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

IF SE ends up increasing the relics power at 99 as much as they have hinted at you can bet that the 99 stage will be "collect an impossible number of some item" In fact I kind of hope that it is.

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It's complete speculation to assume the 99 Mandau will give THF an edge over DNC that Twashtar can't. You have no clue how the 99 Mandau will compare to the 99 Twashtar. Besides, who is to say the 99 Empys won't get a boost of some sort too to keep those weapons on par with relic? Should DNC be 'taken off' Twashtar in that case? Of course not.

I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say the 99 Mandau WILL give THF the substantial edge on DNC you seem to feel it so rightly deserves and that adding DNC to it would eliminate that. So what? There's four other jobs in the mix here that you are not factoring in to your very polarized opinion. Why should they be left off relics because SE hasn't "kept THF and DNC in balance"?

The fact is, right now, Mandau is no different then Twashtar and adding DNC to it would have no effect on job balance. Your only reasoning for not wanting DNC on it is simply because you're frustrated at the way SE has been handling the job balance in general between DNC and THF, which while maybe justified, is an entirely different argument and belongs in another thread, so in all due respect, please kindly take it there. Thank you.

This is just silly. THF is not the only job on mandau. Thief needs work, but it has nothing to do with dancer being better. Please don't ever bring that useless POS Ternary up.

I agree, dancer should be on mandau. It has always bothered me that dancer didn't have a relic.

SE's form of irony: Make Dnc useful at farming relic, but be unable to use one itself.

Please stop talking as though dancer could only wield twashtar or mandau if they were added to it. If dnc was added, why would they not wield both at once? They do have dual wield.

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Originally Posted by Aarahs

Please stop talking as though dancer could only wield twashtar or mandau if they were added to it. If dnc was added, why would they not wield both at once? They do have dual wield.

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Only thing you'd get for off-handing Twashtar would be the stat boost. No weapon skill or aftermath.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

SE has given DNC too much of THF's stuff already. No more please.

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Please cry more. Your tears are delicious.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Just another QQ thread about how this or that relic the player already owns isn't useable on some other job they leveled.

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Actually, I have an Empyrean. Mythic is broken at this point and will be for at least another 6 months. I would like DNC to be added to Twashtar, BLU to Excalibur etc. so I have motivation to participate in content in which I've never really had the chance to participate because none of my jobs have been "Relic" jobs.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Some relics's weapon categories aren't strictly compatible with the category a job uses.

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BLU can already equip several longswords including Almace, Mandau is actually just a reskin of the Parrying Knife, which DNC can wield, . Sch can't normally equip hammers and PUP can't normally equip Cesti; but, they can equip Molva Maul and Heofon Knuckles respectively, so that kind of invalidates this argument.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

TLDR: I have not actually heard any logical reason why the new jobs need to be included at this point. Who honestly cares? In basically every case of a relic that's not available on a new job, the empyrean is better anyway.

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Expansion of old content to new people who otherwise might not bother, giving them something else to do in this game with limited relevant content, thus continuing to get their $12.95 month after month. That, and it would require virtually no development time. Obviously, a lot of people care or this topic wouldn't continue to come up. And Empyreans being a "better choice" is completely irrelevant. Since when has SE released only "better" gear with updates?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It is extremely rare for jobs to be added to gear after the fact. Each time new jobs came out, they were only added to existing gear in accordance with the category of armor they would typically wear. Anything that broke with that tradition was generally added after the job came out with that job already on it. There is minimal precendent, if any, of jobs being added to any gear after the release of the job.

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My dad Q. And his dad Q. And his dad Q. And I'll be darned if my son R! Therefore Q.

They raised level caps. They turned Dynamis into low-man daily-entry content. They gave DNC/BLU/THF native dual wield. Sorry, but appeal to tradition just isn't going to work here.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Out of new jobs, my main is PUP. I don't even want spharai on it. Empy would be better, and I don't even want the weapon skill either. Final Heaven or Victory Smite? VS walks all over FH. Why bother adding the jobs when the relic isn't even better than the other strong options? You basically covered all that for me

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"This change that a lot of others seem to want isn't something that interests me, and even though it would have absolutely no negative impact on my enjoyment of the game either, I don't want it to happen because really, this game is all about me."

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

There's no reason to have them for the jobs that can't other than "completionists" sake. But how is it even being "completionist" if those weapons aren't applicable to the job anyway?

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I feel like "completionist" is a personality type that is pretty common in MMO players. Anyway, to reiterate, it's mostly to expand content to additional people. You don't have to participate in it, but it's absolutely blind to argue that it wouldn't have a positive impact on SE getting peoples' $12.95 while having no negative impact on the game.

TL;DR

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I agree, dancer should be on mandau. It has always bothered me that dancer didn't have a relic.

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Especially considering the whole Great War story behind the Relic weapons. DNC and SCH had pretty huge roles in all that. They really should have been retro-added as soon as WotG came out. it's more of a gaping story hole that these two jobs specifically are NOT on them.

I agree on SCH and DNC, the rest should NOT be added on Relics.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I agree on SCH and DNC, the rest should NOT be added on Relics.

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Why not?

Corsairs shoot things with guns and there is a gun relic.
Puppetmasters punch things and there is a punching relic.
Blue Mages stab things with swords and there is a sword relic.

Seems like a pretty obvious course of action.

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Sorry, but appeal to tradition just isn't going to work here.

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Lookie here, we just invented a new logical fallacy!

If there is no precedent for something, it reasonable to assume based upon that things that may or may not happen in the future. That doesn't guarantee you're going to be right, but past action is often indicative of future action.

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but it's absolutely blind to argue that it wouldn't have a positive impact on SE getting peoples' $12.95 while having no negative impact on the game.

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The number of $12.95s affected by this is probably so small I could count it on my fingers and toes. It would seem pretty fickle to me to quit or not quit based on whether or not DNC gets added to the relic dagger (or insert any other job/relic) and that person was likely ready to quit already.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Why not?

Corsairs shoot things with guns and there is a gun relic.
Puppetmasters punch things and there is a punching relic.
Blue Mages stab things with swords and there is a sword relic.

Seems like a pretty obvious course of action.

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SCH and DNC existed when the weapons were created... The rest did NOT.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/e...png?1266810790

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Lookie here, we just invented a new logical fallacy!

If there is no precedent for something, it reasonable to assume based upon that things that may or may not happen in the future. That doesn't guarantee you're going to be right, but past action is often indicative of future action.

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Argumentum ad antiquitatem. Yeah, I invented it and even bothered to write an entire wikipedia article on it!
Do your research, or you look like a fool.

They do all sorts of crap as of recent without precedent, so precedent or lack thereof isn't a useful gauge of what they will and won't do.

Regardless, there ARE examples of jobs being added to weapons/equipment. Dragoons were randomly added to pebbles, BLU was randomly added to Chakrams, and I'm not sure on this, but I was pretty sure BLU/COR were not added to Crimson/Blood until at least one update after they were introduced to the game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The number of $12.95s affected by this is probably so small I could count it on my fingers and toes. It would seem pretty fickle to me to quit or not quit based on whether or not DNC gets added to the relic dagger (or insert any other job/relic) and that person was likely ready to quit already.

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Regardless of how many $12.95s are affected by it, they're essentially free $12.95s. If you give people more things to do in a game, they're more likely to stick around to keep playing it. It's even better when the content already exists, and all you have to do is change a few flags.

Furthermore, you have produced no viable argument about why these jobs should not be added to Relic weapons, only that you are not interested in them being added and that you in an argumentum ad antiquitatem, don't think they would do so. Usefulness compared to other gear is completely irrelevant. The only things that matter, from a game design standpoint, are as follows:

1.) Are there people that would be interested in / enjoy this content addition?
2.) Is this number significantly larger than the number of people who would be upset by this addition? Additionally, will this content impact other players negatively in any fashion?
3.) Is this difficult to implement? Are there severe game balance issues to consider?
4.) Does it contradict anything from a game lore standpoint? If so, is it out of line with previous game lore contradictions we have made?

(To clarify the answers are 1.) Yes 2.) Yes. No. 3.) Probably not. No. 4.) Potentially. No, seeing as relic armor for ToAU jobs was randomly added to Dynamis, game lore has already fallen out the window here. )

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

SCH and DNC existed when the weapons were created... The rest did NOT.

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Wut?

The lore argument died the second SE added TOAU job drops to Dynamis.

Hey guys! We forwarded your feedback to the dev. team and they let us know that they have indeed looked into increasing the number of jobs that can use relic weapons, but as of right now there are no plans to implement this change.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! We forwarded your feedback to the dev. team and they let us know that they have indeed looked into increasing the number of jobs that can use relic weapons, but as of right now there are no plans to implement this change.

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That's all very nice, but some reasoning would be nice :P

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

That's all very nice, but some reasoning would be nice :P

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I tried T_T but I shall try again just for you! I'll post an update if I get more info.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I tried T_T but I shall try again just for you!

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<3

We know it's not your fault.
(It's Camate's)

Leave Camate out of this!

lol

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I tried T_T but I shall try again just for you! I'll post an update if I get more info.

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You go girl!