Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Juri_Licious]

THF is supposed to be the master of daggers but SE has basically made DNC into "THF only better!" I don't want to see one of the few things remaining that is THF's given over to DNC.

And no, RDM and BRD don't count.

Where are you getting all this stuff? It sounds like you're expecting THF to be a top DD or something.

And stealing? THF has such a tremendous amount of gear and weapons compared to DNC.
I still don't understand why DNC can't use Homam or Skadi sets.

-edit-

One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties? THF. Who ever needs a DNC for endgame? No one.

[Suirieko]

Where are you getting all this stuff? It sounds like you're expecting THF to be a top DD or something.

And stealing? THF has such a tremendous amount of gear and weapons compared to DNC.
I still don't understand why DNC can't use Homam or Skadi sets.

Honestly, when that came out, it bugged me a great deal, then when the Relic/Af came out, I was content enough to ignore it.

Also, THF can be a very good DD if used correctly. Most people think Dagger = Weak. SATA iand their WS is what makes THF shine, and even with all the abilities Dancers have, THFs will still shine.

Also, with all the "Stealing abilities" hate that THF has been calling, ESPECIALLY treasure hunter, consider this:

With Bounty Hunter, they only get TH1. THF still get at the most, with all the gears, TH6, without all the gears, TH3 natively. Same thing applies to BLU's new Treasure Hunter job trait that they got with the last update. All things consider, THF is still the top for this.

One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties? THF. Who ever needs a DNC for endgame? No one.

Personally, when it comes to endgame, both jobs can shine nicely. DNC can easily tank due to fan dance and ability to cure themselves, where THF can easily tank due to much higher evasion.

THF, though, is more preferred because of Treasure Hunter as well.

[Alhanelem]

Pain in the ass to find it but here you go.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post145664

They definitely literally talk about adding new properties. While that doesn't necessarily mean "jobs," it does mean that it's more than just an incremental improvement. Kudos for actually following through.

That doesn't qualify as a source for him I'm sure.

Why would I not accept legitimate evidence that someone, upon my own request, took the time to find, and is a translation of an staff member post? I'm not that dense. It's not unreasonable to ask someone to provide evidence to back up their arguments.

[Atomic_Skull]

Also, once again, THF doesn't lose anything when DNC has access to Mandau. THF is still better with dagger skill

DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

And DNC hasn't been behind THF on gear since Abyssea and Voidwatch.

With Bounty Hunter, they only get TH1..

Bounty Shot is TH2, and it's fairly easy to proc up to TH4 reliably. And anything above TH3 is pretty much unnoticeable anyway.

One more thing, you shouldn't have anything to complain about really, with the DNC/THF argument.
Who actually gets invited to parties?

Neither.

[Juri_Licious]

Personally, when it comes to endgame, both jobs can shine nicely. DNC can easily tank due to fan dance and ability to cure themselves, where THF can easily tank due to much higher evasion.

THF, though, is more preferred because of Treasure Hunter as well.

Well DNC can tank better than THF, it still however doesn't get invited to Abyssea parties or parties outside Abyssea.
No one specifically needs a DNC ever.

DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

And DNC hasn't been behind THF on gear since Abyssea and Voidwatch.

How exactly is this stealing though? If THF didn't have it before DNC.
Well as long as i'm face to face with the monster i'm fighting, my evasion will be 391(closed position merits).

I hope you aren't talking about Ternary Flourish though cause that move is absolutely terrible.
THF has plenty of stuff and gets invited to parties. Thanks to Abyssea being THF is way popular than it use to be.

Neither.

You must be playing a totally different game than.

[Suirieko]

DNC actually has higher accuracy with daggers thanks to Accuracy Bonus 1 through 3. They also get DW4 while THF at most gets DW3 from /NIN. DNC's evasion isn't quite up to THF's but it's close and their other support abilities more than make up for it. They also get forced triple attack on a shorter timer and forced crits on WS.

Pretty sure Dagger skill > Accuracy bonus. Also not to mention that SATA nearly perfect accuracy, unless the mob have Perfect dodge up, or ninjutsu shadows.

Also, as for Climatic Flourish, while yes it is a forced critical hit, it has much longer recast timer (Once every minute and a half), and requires finishing moves, and it consumes all of it. SATA is still more efficient.

As for Ternary Flourish, yes, it does forces triple attack, but like before, it requires finishing moves (3 of them), and can only be done once every 2 and a half minutes, and shares the same recast timer with Climatic Flourish, which also shares the same recast as Striking Flourish. In my experience, I very rarely found a reason to use Ternary, let alike Striking Flourish and only find myself using Climactic Flourish.

SATA is still far more efficient than Climatic flourish. You have two Forced critical hit moves that you can use every minute. Both of them can be reduced down to 50 seconds recast.

The bottom-line is, people need to get over the "Other jobs need to stop stealing from THF" because seriously. I don't see it, and even if they do take it, THF still performs it far more superior and cannot be replaced by other jobs.

Bounty Shot is TH2, and it's fairly easy to proc up to TH4 reliably. And anything above TH3 is pretty much unnoticeable anyway.

Moot point. Pretty sure SE has proven that higher TH will always have a chance to yield better drop, even at TH9 and TH10. Besides, which job is more likely to be called on for Treasure hunter purpose. THF or Ranger? Yeah. I thought so too.

Neither.

Pretty sure my THF and DNC gets invited all the time. Both of the jobs perform very well in abysse, after all.

All in All, allowing Dancer to wield Mandau harms nothing, andIt doesn't make Thief any less unique.

[Darkvalkyr]

What I see here:
"I have an opinion on something!"
"I have one too!"
"Your opinion isn't good enough!"
"But it's my opinion, yours is yours!"
"You suck!"
"Why?"
"You really do!"

With flavours of actual discussion in the middle.

[Atomic_Skull]

Pretty sure Dagger skill > Accuracy bonus. Also not to mention that SATA nearly perfect accuracy, unless the mob have Perfect dodge up, or ninjutsu shadows.

Below 200 skill 1 dagger skill = 1 ACC, above 200 skill 1 dagger skill = 0.9ACC. There's nothing inherently "better" about ACC and ATT from skill vs from other sources.

Also, as for Climatic Flourish, while yes it is a forced critical hit, it has much longer recast timer (Once every minute and a half), and requires finishing moves, and it consumes all of it. SATA is still more efficient.

It can be used from any angle, that in itself is better.

SATA is still far more efficient than Climatic flourish. You have two Forced critical hit moves that you can use every minute. Both of them can be reduced down to 50 seconds recast.

Except that SA won't work unless you are behind the mob.

As for Ternary Flourish, yes, it does forces triple attack, but like before, it requires finishing moves (3 of them), and can only be done once every 2 and a half minutes, and shares the same recast timer with Climatic Flourish, which also shares the same recast as Striking Flourish.

Assassin's Charge has a recast of 5 minutes with max merits.

Moot point. Pretty sure SE has proven that higher TH will always have a chance to yield better drop, even at TH9 and TH10. Besides, which job is more likely to be called on for Treasure hunter purpose. THF or Ranger? Yeah. I thought so too.

They would have had to kill thousands of mobs to prove anything with that test. Any independent tests that have been done with higher tiers of TH have shown it to be virtually unnoticeable in the statistical noise.

All in All, allowing Dancer to wield Mandau harms nothing

It harms THF. It's the final nail in the coffin that says "Attention THFs, DNC is your new replacement"

[Insaniac]

This THF vs. DNC argument is wayyy off topic and Mandau DNC isn't going to be any better than a Twashtar DNC already is. The fact is every job deserves access to at least 1 relic because it may be the only feasible option for some players to take to 95 and maybe 99.

[Atomic_Skull]

This THF vs. DNC argument is wayyy off topic and Mandau DNC isn't going to be any better than a Twashtar DNC already is. The fact is every job deserves access to at least 1 relic because it may be the only feasible option for some players to take to 95 and maybe 99.

IF SE ends up increasing the relics power at 99 as much as they have hinted at you can bet that the 99 stage will be "collect an impossible number of some item" In fact I kind of hope that it is.