ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

Old content from dynamis should never be considered the best weapons for so many years in my opinion. Out with the old in with the new they say. Can only wait and see.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

but for hard mobs, outside abyssea, Bravura is SLIGHTLY better damage, and makes you take 20% less damage so it ends up being vastly superior.

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Lolz. Only BG trolls would think that taking 20% less damage is anywhere close to "vastly superior" seeing as outside of abyssea cure V systematically caps your HP, and cure VI, well... lol. 20% HP boost would be interesting but 20% damage taken who cares, unless you make it a point curing with a PLD or something retarded.

WHM makes any kind of defensive of min/maxing useless unless mobs can one shot you systematically. Secondly the current content of outside is easy super easy (dynamis) or super useless (void watch, useless rewards = ZNM II).

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Old content from dynamis should never be considered the best weapons for so many years in my opinion. Out with the old in with the new they say. Can only wait and see.

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So what would happen to all the players that spent all that time getting their relics? Fk them? Nice.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Old content from dynamis should never be considered the best weapons for so many years in my opinion. Out with the old in with the new they say. Can only wait and see.

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New content: Level 90 versions of those weapons.

Get over it, they should be better under your own argument, because they're new. They also take more effort/time.

inb4 the stale "no, everyone just buys gil to get them" so-called "argument".

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

So what would happen to all the players that spent all that time getting their relics? Fk them? Nice.

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The same that will happen to the players that spent all that time getting an empyrean. They will get baseline improvements that make all weapons on par (mythic/relics/empyrean) and release new content that will invalidate anything you did so far. AF3 will also be thrown to the trash obviously, plus they already hinted toward this by saying they want to force players to farm various situational gear in the next endgame events.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Lolz. Only BG trolls would think that taking 20% less damage is anywhere close to "vastly superior" seeing as outside of abyssea cure V systematically caps your HP, and cure VI, well... lol. 20% HP boost would be interesting but 20% damage taken who cares, unless you make it a point curing with a PLD or something retarded.

WHM makes any kind of defensive of min/maxing useless unless mobs can one shot you systematically. Secondly the current content of outside is easy super easy (dynamis) or super useless (void watch, useless rewards = ZNM II).

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OMGZ 1 weapon does more damage then another and gives -20% damage, its totally junk right? GTFO trollchan.
Theres also lots of good drops from voidwatch, if you weren't so terrible at FFXI you would know that.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Metatron from 90 bravura does more than Ukkos without crits, which you wont be capped ddex on high tier NMs so you wont get lots of crits, and you don't have all that +crit damage you have in abyssea, and with bravura you can use meat and keep capped acc on such mobs, with ukon you have to give up a bit to keep acc capped. That tips everything into Bravuras favor for hard NMs. If they gave us razed ruins all the time, Ukon would win, but for hard mobs, outside abyssea, Bravura is SLIGHTLY better damage, and makes you take 20% less damage so it ends up being vastly superior.

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Tilted logic. You are forgetting 30-50% ODD vs 5% ODD. On top of that.. a good Metatron does SLIGHTLY more than a non-crit Ukko's and Ukko's has an as yet to be nailed down crit rate bonus. I personally have seen almost every Emp and Relic in action in and outside of abyssea. Trust me Kannagi is not the only one that craps all over it's relic counterpart. FFS a lot of the relic WSs aren't even comparable to vanilla WSs. The only 2 emps that wouldn't use their WS 100% of the time are Axe and Polearm and the relic WSs for these weapons are as bad or worse than the emp ones.

Edit: Oh yeah dagger.

you can farm an empy weapon in a day or 2 even if you bought your gil like a retard you cudnt find enough currency to get a relic in that time and def not a mythic in a day or 2 either ... imo the empy shud b far less potent than it is compared to the relic and mythic weapons .... insted its almost the same and in most cases better to have the empy yall need to change that

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Originally Posted by Kluaf

you can farm an empy weapon in a day or 2 even if you bought your gil like a retard you cudnt find enough currency to get a relic in that time and def not a mythic in a day or 2 either ... imo the empy shud b far less potent than it is compared to the relic and mythic weapons .... insted its almost the same and in most cases better to have the empy yall need to change that

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That is true, it will still take you at least a month and probably two to get all the currency for a relic even if you have all the gil on hand.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Tilted logic.

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Of course its tilted logic? It has to be a very specific set of circumstances for bravura to win, its just that those circumstances are probably about to become real common. And it's mainly the acc that pushes Bravura ahead.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

You are forgetting 30-50% ODD vs 5% ODD.

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No, I'm not forgetting ODD, and its also not that high for emps/low for relics

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

On top of that.. a good Metatron does SLIGHTLY more than a non-crit Ukko's

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It doesn't average that much below Ukkos on very hard stuff.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

and Ukko's has an as yet to be nailed down crit rate bonus.

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It's 30% @ 100tp

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I personally have seen almost every Emp and Relic in action in and outside of abyssea.

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Most people with relics and empyreans aren't very good players, heck, most players aren't very good players. You'll forgive me if I ignore your my friend this and that, when I know very competant people and thats what Im basing this on.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Trust me Kannagi is not the only one that craps all over it's relic counterpart.

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It is actually, there is no time ever when Kikoku is better then Kannagi, but I can give you a set of circumstances when every other empyrean isn't best.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

FFS a lot of the relic WSs aren't even comparable to vanilla WSs. The only 2 emps that wouldn't use their WS 100% of the time are Axe and Polearm and the relic WSs for these weapons are as bad or worse than the emp ones.

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No idea what you're saying here, but the lvl 90 relic WS's gain a 25% bonus to damage, and theyre all at least competitive with emp WS's at some point, except polearm, drakes bane is way to good compared to everything else offered.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Edit: Oh yeah dagger.

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Mandau is always better then Twash, what about dagger?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Kannagi is the only empyrean that is always better then its relic and mythic counterparts.
THE ONLY ONE.
Even Ukon is outparsed by its relic counterpart on high tier voidwatch mobs, AND it gives -20% damage taken! And higher tier NMs is the type of stuff SE is going to be adding now that abyssea is over, you all need to get over the idea that relics are broken and weak, because they are not, only 1 is completely terrible compared to its empyrean counterpart, Kikoku, and ninja is a dead job for anything slightly difficult, so it doesn't even matter unless they fix ninja.

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Our Ukon WARs average 2200-3500k outside abyssea, not to mention double damage procs. You can keep repeating that relics are better outside Abyssea as much as you want but that won't make it true.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Apologies for making you wait for some more info on this topic.

You might be surprised, but even though the July version update has just taken place, the dev. team has already begun work on the next version update and we checked with the lead dev. about the latest status.

There are currently no changes to the adjustment plans that were announced previously. Based on this, we are planning to add continuations to Trial of the Magians for relic/mythic/empyrean weapons to go along with the level cap increase.

We took a look at all the requests for stats on relics and mythics and understand your ideas, so in addition to enhancing the original DMG and special stats, we are checking to see whether we can add some special properties to them. (Currently, exactly what those properties will be and how they will be added is still up in the air.)

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I"m not sure why we'd be surprised, as the roadmap for updates says that the level cap increase major version update is slated for august. Has this changed? Please update us as to whats going on, I'm sure hundreds of players woudl like to know.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Apologies for making you wait for some more info on this topic.

You might be surprised, but even though the July version update has just taken place, the dev. team has already begun work on the next version update and we checked with the lead dev. about the latest status.

There are currently no changes to the adjustment plans that were announced previously. Based on this, we are planning to add continuations to Trial of the Magians for relic/mythic/empyrean weapons to go along with the level cap increase.

We took a look at all the requests for stats on relics and mythics and understand your ideas, so in addition to enhancing the original DMG and special stats, we are checking to see whether we can add some special properties to them. (Currently, exactly what those properties will be and how they will be added is still up in the air.)

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So I have understood all this is saying is,

"You'll never guess what! We're not going to deviate from that Road Map we showed you. So obviously, our dev. team hasn't bothered with making any adjustments to the acquisition of Mythic weapons. They're just going to focus on the suckers who put effort into making these weapons and the lucky bastards who are going to win them in the upcoming bonanza. Keep dreaming losers!"

I think it was more that he meant that they are still planning to make changes to relics because people (Kiba mainly) kept posting in this thread every day whinning and crying about getting an update and assumed that SE had gone against their word and were no longer going to update relics.

I cannot wait to see the changes. ***

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Our Ukon WARs average 2200-3500k outside abyssea, not to mention double damage procs.

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could I ask you kindly, to please provide at few Parses to support this claim?

I ask because of two reasons,

1, I'm not a fan of eyeballing, and i hope someone making a bold claim would have evidence to support it, because Eyeballed averages rarely stack up to realistic parsing.

2, the bigger reason, I've been looking into Ukon and Bravura, any data related to them is appreciated.

Thank you in advanced. (if you have at least 10 separate parses it would be lovely, The larger data the better. outside abyssea content only, preferably Voidwatch)

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Of course its tilted logic? It has to be a very specific set of circumstances for bravura to win, its just that those circumstances are probably about to become real common. And it's mainly the acc that pushes Bravura ahead.

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What I mean is you are tilting things to try and make your point. My only experience fighting T4 voidwalkers is on DRG and I had 0 acc issues. But thats DRG so idk. I don't see our Almace PLDs having much trouble with acc either though.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

No, I'm not forgetting ODD, and its also not that high for emps/low for relics

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It's that high for emps and yes relics may be higher now. I haven't checked my mandau since the magian trials but it used to be 4-5%.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It doesn't average that much below Ukkos on very hard stuff.

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It really does.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It's 30% @ 100tp

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Well there you go. Add w/e crit+ gear you have on for probably around 40%and then factor in bloodrage. We both know a crit Ukko's destroys metatron and a non crit does pretty much the same. Not hard to figure out what WS is gonna avg higher.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Most people with relics and empyreans aren't very good players, heck, most players aren't very good players. You'll forgive me if I ignore your my friend this and that, when I know very competant people and thats what Im basing this on.

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Maybe your friends suck? I don't really need to take your word for it either. You aren't gonna change your mind no matter what I tell you I just like pointing out when people post nonsense.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It is actually, there is no time ever when Kikoku is better then Kannagi, but I can give you a set of circumstances when every other empyrean isn't best.

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Indulge me.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

No idea what you're saying here, but the lvl 90 relic WS's gain a 25% bonus to damage, and theyre all at least competitive with emp WS's at some point, except polearm, drakes bane is way to good compared to everything else offered.

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At some point = almost never. If you own both in almost all situations you are gonna be using your emp. My point is a lot of relics don't even get to use their WS because there is a vanilla WS that everyone gets that is better but almost all emps get to use their WS in 99% of situations. With the ftp increase at 90 a lot of the relic WSs caught up with the standard WSs but how is that good? It's a step in the right direction but it's far from balanced.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Mandau is always better then Twash, what about dagger?

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I forgot to add dagger to the list of emps that don't use their WS 100% of the time but that's because of the timers on SATA (<-and position requirements) and Climactic flourish so it's not really the same. Mandau doesn't get to MS 100% of the time either for the same reasons.

Here is a novel concept, how about we wait til August when the new stuff comes out to see. NOONE saw the 25% damage increase coming for relics at level 90. Was only after someone got the 90 and tested it.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Here is a novel concept, how about we wait til August when the new stuff comes out to see. NOONE saw the 25% damage increase coming for relics at level 90. Was only after someone got the 90 and tested it.

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I agree. I'm not arguing anything other than emps are currently, as a whole, better than the whole of relics. Wish12oz says relics don't need more upgrades. I disagree. It doesn't really matter though since we were just told we are getting more.

In my mind, a weapon that is 140 damage should be doing far more damage then a weapon that is 126, but this is ffxi where nothing is normal.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Not everyone has a setup going for them where they can reach that level of efficiency and you're thinking unrealistically if you think that's how it is. Technically you could finish the relic in the blink of an eye if you had capped gil ready and waiting. That doesn't mean relics aren't hard. Also, don't ignore the NM stage (many of them are glitched to hell and take like 16 hours) and the HORRIBLE VNM stage that's unfun incarnate. But whatever, empyrean owners do nothing to earn their weapons in your mind, I forgot. Also, there's SO much fighting involved in getting a relic now'a'days. Sit and craft then go fight a floating weapon and some fomors. Big whoop.

I'm working on Excalibur too and there's none of the frustration or drama involved, it's all very clear what has to be done to finish it. I don't pay 140,000 gil (only 1 NM by the way, not the full popset or even close) thinking I'll get 2 buds just to get 1 and don't have to compete with 2 or 3 other people for my o pieces. I can't go buy these chloris leaf buds, unless you want to count paying like 500k to get one popset done, which isn't very logical. Not to mention the way people treat eachother when FCing the bats.

But nope, everyone has a full party of emp owners and has it down to a science, we're all the most elite endgame LS in the game who you're referencing and don't have to take turns working on other peoples weapons.

I love how relic owners think Empyreans should just be completely overlooked in this set of buffs just because of ukon/almace/vere when its obvious some of the formulas for certain empyrean WS need tweaking to be worth a damn and not just have the weapon exist for double damage aftermath.

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Well first, I never actually stated, nor believe, that some Emps don't need tweaking. SE didn't do anything different with the Emps over their Relic/Mythic counterparts. Some are awesome, some suck. That's just the way of SE.

And you're working on Excalibur. Great. Sure you could have finished that in the blink of an eye if you had approximately 225 million gil laying around, but odds are you don't nor are there very many people who think a relic is worth that much. It doesn't compare. Anyone can do an Emp, start to finish (NMs included), in a couple weeks.

As for what it takes to actually get a relic. Yeah, I sat around and crafted a lot. Yeah I did a lot of dynamis farming. I did a nice combination of both working through a system we put in place with our linkshell to buy coins at a heavily discounted rate (often times 100-200k/per 100). But here's the great thing. That "horrible VNM stage" you went through? Yeah I finished all 3 VNM trials in about the same amount of time it took to finish up getting a fragment and paper for the relic.

So just to recount:

Relic: ~225 million (based off needing approximately 18000 coins of varying types), paper, fragment, 6 other trials requiring 1200 killshots, 200 more uses of the relic WS itself and 5 more paper NM kills.

Emp: 6 NM camping trials (21 NMs), 3 VNM trials (20 force-pop NMs), 175 various NM items. No gil required.

And Mythics are worse than all of that.

The efficiency of my linkshell isn't what's in question here with you. What's in question is "Can you finish 14 relics in a month and a half?" The short answer to that is "No." The long answer is "F*** no." I'm not saying Relics should be better than Emps, I'm perfectly happy they put trials at the end of them to upgrade them further (which is another counter to your whole "don't forget about the whole NM camping" bit, ever actually tried getting killshots with a relic WS?). What I am saying is, don't come out here crying about the lack of attention from the community team over something so easy to get. There's a reason why nearly 4600 emps showed up in a year against a drop of nearly 2100 Lv.75 relics between censuses.

ITT: People without Relics/Mythics/Emps troll everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

So what would happen to all the players that spent all that time getting their relics? Fk them? Nice.

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If they like clinging on to old content then so be it. I've seen people replacing their Excalibur and Aegis. All I'm saying is content from 5-6 years ago should not be the top of the list.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

New content: Level 90 versions of those weapons.

Get over it, they should be better under your own argument, because they're new. They also take more effort/time.

inb4 the stale "no, everyone just buys gil to get them" so-called "argument".

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That is true, but I wont change my mind about relics. The same goes with empyrean upgrades. They'll all get some baseline adjustment with upgraded augments. Now I have a hunch, Lv99 will bring forth ultimate weapons that should respectfully trump everything else to balance out that content. Just a guess.

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Originally Posted by Qtipus

Emps aren't hard work. When you can finish 14 of them in a month and a half like our linkshell did, that's not hard. That's what I call a gift. Even now, SE has gone out of their way to make acquiring said Emps easier (re: Guku, Tunga, etc KIs in gold boxes, more gold boxes/zone, multiple ???s for the NMs themselves) and it was a month and half to do 14 of them before those changes.

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I always find it hilarous that guys like you come on forums to make pseudo-elitism comments and explain us how they can "easily" build an empyrean in 3 days, while if you dig a little and check their FFXIAH equipment history, you find the first reference of Verethragna
at the date of [2011-05-16 07:29:43]. In other words :

(1) The level 80 verethragna took you 11 months to build.
(2) Getting the level 90 one took you at least 6 months to get

We are far from the 3 days period. Looks like some people are slower than others.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I agree. I'm not arguing anything other than emps are currently, as a whole, better than the whole of relics. Wish12oz says relics don't need more upgrades. I disagree. It doesn't really matter though since we were just told we are getting more.

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Annhilator is better than Armageddon outside abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Qtipus

Relic: ~225 million (based off needing approximately 18000 coins of varying types), paper, fragment, 6 other trials requiring 1200 killshots, 200 more uses of the relic WS itself and 5 more paper NM kills.

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Relic = 50 dynamis runs don't need money. That's 100 hours.
Empyrean = 30 hours for chloris, 10 hours for ulhuadshi, 6 hours for dragua, it is only about twice faster.

The trials for 75>90 (for relics) are about half as painful as getting to the chloris stage.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

could I ask you kindly, to please provide at few Parses to support this claim?

I ask because of two reasons,

1, I'm not a fan of eyeballing, and i hope someone making a bold claim would have evidence to support it, because Eyeballed averages rarely stack up to realistic parsing.

2, the bigger reason, I've been looking into Ukon and Bravura, any data related to them is appreciated.

Thank you in advanced. (if you have at least 10 separate parses it would be lovely, The larger data the better. outside abyssea content only, preferably Voidwatch)

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1600-2000 is a good average on overly hard mobs, 3400-3800 on weak stuff and is what I regularly parse in einherjar.

how much do you parse on Buble Berny ? Who cares about einherjar ? How much do you parse on Arch DL ?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

how much do you parse on Buble Berny ? Who cares about einherjar ? How much do you parse on Arch DL ?

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I believe I covered that in my other post that you somehow failed to read.

EDIT: I'll just repost it for you, but seriously, I typed 1 sentence, how do you fail so much you can't remember the first half of it?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

1600-2000 is a good average on overly hard mobs

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Relic = 50 dynamis runs don't need money. That's 100 hours.
Empyrean = 30 hours for chloris, 10 hours for ulhuadshi, 6 hours for dragua, it is only about twice faster.

The trials for 75>90 (for relics) are about half as painful as getting to the chloris stage.

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Everything you post is garbage but...these numbers are generally correct if you're doing them in a large group. Dyna and Emps take more time with less people, especially in instances like Chloris/Glavoid where there's really no difference in the amount of time it takes to farm 4-6 pops as it does to farm 10+ pops.

Add on to that that Glavoid usually takes a decent amount of time to kill just because he is annoying, whereas Chloris goes down really quick.

Personally, I kind of wonder what Sama has to say, but it can't be very important since he's to much of a coward to actually leave his comments up for more then 2 minutes, did anyone actually see either them on the previous page?

How do they compare in man-hours?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I always find it hilarous that guys like you come on forums to make pseudo-elitism comments and explain us how they can "easily" build an empyrean in 3 days, while if you dig a little and check their FFXIAH equipment history, you find the first reference of Verethragna
at the date of [2011-05-16 07:29:43]. In other words :

(1) The level 80 verethragna took you 11 months to build.
(2) Getting the level 90 one took you at least 6 months to get

We are far from the 3 days period. Looks like some people are slower than others.

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Yeah, I didn't actually start H2H until the beginning of May. You're assuming I started on it when they were first released, but nope, I didn't start on them until about a month after I had MNK at 90, which was just before the servers went down. Thanks, try again super sleuth.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I always find it hilarous that guys like you come on forums to make pseudo-elitism comments and explain us how they can "easily" build an empyrean in 3 days, while if you dig a little and check their FFXIAH equipment history, you find the first reference of Verethragna
at the date of [2011-05-16 07:29:43]. In other words :

(1) The level 80 verethragna took you 11 months to build.
(2) Getting the level 90 one took you at least 6 months to get

We are far from the 3 days period. Looks like some people are slower than others.

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I always find it hilarous that you have no concept of changes that took place of the time abyssea came out.

When the 8 weapons came out, no one bothered to work on 80 weapons because at the time, it was to much work for only a high damage weapon that wasn't worth it at the time. When 85 came out, people started to work on it but even then, not all KIs could be found in chests.

Also, the mobs because even easier to kill/low man when we got 2-3 atmas we can use at a time, and stronger atmas as time progressed, as well as more HP/MP abbysites, etc.

Also, you can not use the AH history as an accurate time line for when someone completes an empy. As it is now, AH cant even scan anything higher than the level 80 unless you use another program that can scan for you.

Plus, some people dont even pop on their 80 weapon when they get it for long cause its not like having 80 is useful or means anything.

Don't give lessons when you don't apply said rules to yourself. My guess is that you had a level 90 job way before that so we are back to : why so much time for an empyreal ? If we follow your posts, getting an empy is a matter of 3 days. Yet it took you at least 6 months to get one done. Most normal players will take several week to get one even those that pretend otherwise (like you) because of the prerequisites for one and because Chloris is too much investement to be able to pop more than a few per day. The rest of the path is all about showing your skillz at outclaiming insomniac JPs or forcing your LS mates to hold dragua pops for you. Noone will do all this in 3 days.

Now is 3 days talking about the 90 weapon, or the 85? Because for most, 85 is the real prize atm, and 90 is just icing ont he cake.

But honestly, if you cared enough, you can get a weapon to 85 in 3 days. Took me about 4 days to get gun to 85 and that wasnt even spending the whole day doing it.

And seriously, who made 80 weapon before Scars came out? Hardly anyone. Stop trying so hard gimpchan.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

I always find it hilarous that you have no concept of changes that took place of the time abyssea came out.

When the 8 weapons came out, no one bothered to work on 80 weapons because at the time, it was to much work for only a high damage weapon that wasn't worth it at the time. When 85 came out, people started to work on it but even then, not all KIs could be found in chests.

Also, the mobs because even easier to kill/low man when we got 2-3 atmas we can use at a time, and stronger atmas as time progressed, as well as more HP/MP abbysites, etc.

Also, you can not use the AH history as an accurate time line for when someone completes an empy. As it is now, AH cant even scan anything higher than the level 80 unless you use another program that can scan for you.

Plus, some people dont even pop on their 80 weapon when they get it for long cause its not like having 80 is useful or means anything.

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We all know that only the good players could get it done before level 90, you don't have to explain or justify yourself. All I'm saying is that if you didn't get an level 85 empyrean before december you shouldn't give lessons.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Relic = 50 dynamis runs don't need money. That's 100 hours.
Empyrean = 30 hours for chloris, 10 hours for ulhuadshi, 6 hours for dragua, it is only about twice faster.

The trials for 75>90 (for relics) are about half as painful as getting to the chloris stage.

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I seriously doubt people are walking into dynamis nowadays pulling down 360 coins/run when that was about the average a huge linkshell would pull down in singles clearing a zone before all the changes. The 225 mil remark was referring to simply purchasing all the coins out of a bazaar, but you pretty much just bolstered my point anyway.

Also, I hope I don't need to remind you that SE didn't nerf the relic/mythic trials until this past Dec. when Heroes came out. Prior to that, it was 7000 killshots and 1500 uses of the relic WS. At best, you were talking about 60 killshots/hour soloing. Maybe 70 if you didn't have anyone else there messing with your monsters. By today's standards, that's about 20-25 hours of work. I spent far less time than that getting to the Chloris stage. Half as painful, wut?

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Because for most, 85 is the real prize atm, and 90 is just icing ont he cake.

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Nope it's because it's a pain-long to farm a level 90 with only a dual boxed mule, which is also the reason all those dual boxer didn't get the level 85 before christmas nor the level 80 before september :). If not why do you explain so few farmed the level 85, because as you said, it is game breaking, so that's a great reason (more that a few point of DMG).

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Originally Posted by Qtipus

I seriously doubt people are walking into dynamis nowadays pullng down 360 coins/run

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When I trioed our relic horn, we would get 200-250 coins per runs, and you get 3000 tukku in the end so I removed those leaving us with roughly 50 runs at best and 75 at worst.