To all the SMN QQ

just hit 30 so obviously my knowledge is limited but I think people are QQing over nothing.

Our dps cant be accurately calculated right now because no parser takes into account 2! of our hardest hitting dots. I dont understand how so many people are making assumptions based on partial evidence.

Just having received ifrit i must say, I dont feel underwhelmed at all he is a good dps pet for both dungeons and questing.

TDLR: Enjoy the huge amount of utility, (Probable good dps) and effective pets!

When you hit 40 you will swap him for carbuncle since overall carbuncle has better dps and utility thanks to shining emerald and once you get garuda? You have no reason to use ifrit anymore.

^ said it all basically

The only real message you should give to the summoner cryers is "Learn To Play".

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Originally Posted by Malix

The only real message you should give to the summoner cryers is "Learn To Play".

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^this so hard

and stop looking at the parses like they mean anything

I am quite aware on how to play the class thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Umbral

just hit 30 so obviously my knowledge is limited but I think people are QQing over nothing.

Our dps cant be accurately calculated right now because no parser takes into account 2! of our hardest hitting dots. I dont understand how so many people are making assumptions based on partial evidence.

Just having received ifrit i must say, I dont feel underwhelmed at all he is a good dps pet for both dungeons and questing.

TDLR: Enjoy the huge amount of utility, (Probable good dps) and effective pets!

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no one complaining about Smn DPS only the "Summoner" it self. The eggi does horrible damage wait until u make it to endgame you basically have no need for them just garuda using cotagion and let her just stand there and die.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

no one complaining about Smn DPS only the "Summoner" it self. The eggi does horrible damage wait until u make it to endgame you basically have no need for them just garuda using cotagion and let her just stand there and die.

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Do you mean eggi are needed for end game or Summoners themselves are not needed?

I find SMN's dps is acceptable, just need to tweak a little here and there.

Our pet's dps isn't low, they are dishing out dmg when other dps and of course our self is running away from RED circle because they simply can (90% reduction on aoe). Same goes to our DOTs, where is the BLM when the boss is dropping AOE? probably hiding somewhere, but with accurate judgement, SMN's DOTs are running all over the boss still.

So we are not in the burst dmg category, deal with it. We have raging strike to compensate, we can assist via eye to eye, virus, etc. Off heal when healer is busy with tank. These are all essential to a critical situation where none other dps able to replace.

part 1/2

I find the below twerk would balance the class.

1. Pets command bar need to work on its own and not greyed out when we cast a spell.
2. let us manual click AOE and Stun for our pets instead of auto-casting it. (manual or selection of auto/manual)
3. Pets need to respond to command immediately.
4. our bane needs a buff in range.
5. enkindle cd is too long need to reduce the cd a little but i do agree with the dmg.

part 2/2

The only time summoner's 'weakness' shows is against adds that you need to down quickly. We just don't have the burst of other classes (we have to wait for DoTs to build up). This is a legitimate complaint and one I hope is addressed. I understand that people are upset that the pets aren't a higher percentage of our damage.. but I can understand why summoner is built this way according to the mechanics of THIS particular game.

On another note... I've seen people complain about SMN before they even see what they can do. Summoner is a new class. Yes, all classes were 'rebuilt', but many people playing it really had 'nothing' to go by. Slowly but surely, we are learning what it is all about (the rotation is super easy)... and surprise, it's not a straight-up DD like other classes... and I'm not just talking about the fact that we rely on DoTs. We have a LOT of utility other classes don't necessarily get, but we suffer in our lack of bursts. On some fights where a LOT of adds spawn (even too much for an off tank to handle too well), I can throw Titan at these extra adds to tank them for a while. It works wonders. Also, on boss fights (without adds), I can consistently build myself up to 2nd on the hate list with only a few pieces of darklight. I don't run a parser, but this basically means that I am doing enough damage to be 2nd on the monster's hate list. If the tank dies, I'm the one the boss goes after.

If you are building an ideal party (with a nice balance), throwing in one summoner isn't going to hurt the group at all. ARR seems to be all about keeping your party versatile rather than class stacking like it was in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by toddx77

Do you mean eggi are needed for end game or Summoners themselves are not needed?

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Well Eggi need a buff they should be the source of the summoner power not just some useless hello kitty looking pet just for show and yes both. Right now all Summoner can do is use Dot which all share GCD and take forever to get dps started and to be honest IT BORING.

Basically it goes like this

Party joins for titan hard
BLM
WAR
DRG
MNK
SCH
WHM
Bard
SMN

Now for the first 2 minutes who will have a good dps? obviously all DPS beside summoner because he has to use BIO II, Miasma, Thunder, Bio, Virus (Garuda cotagion) Miasma II shadow flare, Fester , Ruin II ,Ruin, II Fester, Repeat, basically it will take you about a minute to catch up to the dps what they did a minute ago. Now think and I mean think look at all these skills a SMN has to do just to keep up with DPS?

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Originally Posted by toddx77

Do you mean eggi are needed for end game or Summoners themselves are not needed?

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Part 2

Now you finally make it to titan heart which is a DPS race now this is the kicker the smn has to RECAST all his DoT and has to wait that whole minute to start seeing noticeable dps while the other dps is hammering him down fast as possible THIS IS WHERE summoner fails hard. you may say yeh so what after a minute you will be doing damage okay what if titan does the stone prison on u? and you have to recast all those DoT yet again.

Ask anyone or better yet ask you're self if you are doing a dungeon or primal fight would you take a summoner over bard? DRG?MNK?BLM?

But I don't care about a class that uses DoT but on summoner it a joke he should get his power from his avatar and not this whole Dot nonsense.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Part 2

Now you finally make it to titan heart which is a DPS race now this is the kicker the smn has to RECAST all his DoT and has to wait that whole minute to start seeing noticeable dps while the other dps is hammering him down fast as possible THIS IS WHERE summoner fails hard. you may say yeh so what after a minute you will be doing damage okay what if titan does the stone prison on u? and you have to recast all those DoT yet again.

Ask anyone or better yet ask you're self if you are doing a dungeon or primal fight would you take a summoner over bard? DRG?MNK?BLM?

But I don't care about a class that uses DoT but on summoner it a joke he should get his power from his avatar and not this whole Dot nonsense.

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Are you saying you cannot Bane your DoTs onto the Heart? Are you saying you cant use ifrit pet to help get quick damage on the heart? if bane works you will get your damage on the target relatively fast, if not? you will be caught up to the other dps by your first fester, need more burst? use a Energy Drain while in the process of applying your DoTs, it is off the GCD. There are ways to get around SMN weaknesses you just do not want to find it.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

I find the below twerk would balance the class.

1. Pets command bar need to work on its own and not greyed out when we cast a spell.
2. let us manual click AOE and Stun for our pets instead of auto-casting it. (manual or selection of auto/manual)
3. Pets need to respond to command immediately.
4. our bane needs a buff in range.
5. enkindle cd is too long need to reduce the cd a little but i do agree with the dmg.

part 2/2

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this summarized what need to be done with SMN in general especially number 1,2 and 3 (and scholar also) it almost impossible to interrupt spells with pet atm unless you have and it took time longer than needed just to cast contagion even in steady mode.

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Originally Posted by Malix

Are you saying you cannot Bane your DoTs onto the Heart? Are you saying you cant use ifrit pet to help get quick damage on the heart? if bane works you will get your damage on the target relatively fast, if not? you will be caught up to the other dps by your first fester, need more burst? use a Energy Drain while in the process of applying your DoTs, it is off the GCD. There are ways to get around SMN weaknesses you just do not want to find it.

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Have you even played summoner? in order for bane to work need to have DoT on the mob and the only mob is titan when he activate the heart you have to recast DoT all over again so how can bane even work? also bane is very unreliable sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't work. You also did not understand the part where in a situation you get stone prison while you have to recast all DoT the rest of the DPS is hammering him down.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Have you even played summoner? in order for bane to work need to have DoT on the mob and the only mob is titan when he activate the heart you have to recast DoT all over again so how can bane even work? also bane is very unreliable sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't work. You also did not understand the part where in a situation you get stone prison while you have to recast all DoT the rest of the DPS is hammering him down.

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Yeah. And I assume titan does no aoe at all you can just stand still and cast like a turret, riiiiiiiiiiight ? Stop saying dumb things. You cast your dots, shadowflare and you can dodge every aoe while still doing lots of damage. Meanwhile the other classes (except Bards) are not doing shit. Oh you're stoned ? Well your dots are still hurting the boss. Tell me how well a BLM dps the boss while stoned.

I only wanted to know why this job is called summoner.
Summoner is not about DoTs its all about burst :X Who thought it would be fun to make the job like that? :X

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Originally Posted by nimuniverse

That's how SE went with it in FFXIV ARR. At this point, deal with it. Either learn to play the class or play a different class until SE decides to change the whole class mechanic, which they won't. The only thing they can do to quick fix is change current summoner job name to elementalist or something. Then create a new separate SMN class.

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Ya, I probably gonna call myself Dotmage and live with that. I dont dislike the job itself, just find "summoner" a very misfitting name for it.

That's how SE went with it in FFXIV ARR. At this point, deal with it. Either learn to play the class or play a different class until SE decides to change the whole class mechanic, which they won't. The only thing they can do to quick fix is change current summoner job name to elementalist or something. Then create a new separate SMN class.

I've played with some excellent summoners. In a tank 'n' spank situation where a BLM can just stand and shoot, it will excel, in heavy movement situations, the summoner will more than likely do more damage than a BLM. BLM is low mobility, high dps, high burst. Summoner is high mobility, above average dps(agree with enkindle cd too long), and low burst. Overall that's a damn good balance, and having both in a party is downright amazing on the spellcaster dps front.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Have you even played summoner? in order for bane to work need to have DoT on the mob and the only mob is titan when he activate the heart you have to recast DoT all over again so how can bane even work? also bane is very unreliable sometimes it will work and sometimes it won't work. You also did not understand the part where in a situation you get stone prison while you have to recast all DoT the rest of the DPS is hammering him down.

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Did you read what i said or did you just derp through it. here read this part again "Are you saying you cannot Bane your DoTs onto the Heart?" "if not?". The problem is you think the grass is greener on the other side for some reason. To get your first fester out it takes 3 gcds, by the time you have done your first fester you will be caught up, if you are using cds like every one else. Yes i play a summoner, i have bursted many things down before, in fact in times when we have to kill adds i get and maintain aggro more than those so called other more bursty classes. I also have all 50s so i have a good idea of how bursty a class is, if you are saving your aetherflows like your suppose to getting the burst out is not a problem in the least. You argument would make more sense if the heart was out for less than 10 seconds but even than you could just double cast drain instead.

As someone has pointed out earlier the real issues are not game breaking(when i mean game breaking i mean its not playable unless they add those changes) but more quality of like such as the Bane range for example. Does smn have weakness? sure, does every other class has weaknesses? yes, the problem is you want summoner to have none. They work well in some areas of titan and no so well in others but as long as you are adjusting your play-style for each encounter (which you should be doing regardless of job) than you will get through it fine.

There will always be people who tell you your class sucks based off of a parser that is more useless than useful and you may feel that is does, but in this case try playing around with those classes you think are outperforming you and you will see that its not the case. Of course i have the luxury of playing next to a friend that plays a different DD to see that there is no real difference in burst.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

I find the below twerk would balance the class.

1. Pets command bar need to work on its own and not greyed out when we cast a spell.
2. let us manual click AOE and Stun for our pets instead of auto-casting it. (manual or selection of auto/manual)
3. Pets need to respond to command immediately.

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Agree with the ideas behind this post.

Pets should work like any other mmo - abilities have toggles for auto-cast and manual cast. Also, ability commands certainly need to be able to be given at any time. What's the point in having a pet if it is just an auto-turret of spells? Pretty boring.

Why does it matter if Summoners are a dot class? Dots and pets are one of the cliches for MMOs - not just WOW - Aion, Rift, GW2.. the list goes on.. they go well together.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Well Eggi need a buff they should be the source of the summoner power not just some useless hello kitty looking pet just for show and yes both. Right now all Summoner can do is use Dot which all share GCD and take forever to get dps started and to be honest IT BORING.

Basically it goes like this

Party joins for titan hard
BLM
WAR
DRG
MNK
SCH
WHM
Bard
SMN

Now for the first 2 minutes who will have a good dps? obviously all DPS beside summoner because he has to use BIO II, Miasma, Thunder, Bio, Virus (Garuda cotagion) Miasma II shadow flare, Fester , Ruin II ,Ruin, II Fester, Repeat, basically it will take you about a minute to catch up to the dps what they did a minute ago. Now think and I mean think look at all these skills a SMN has to do just to keep up with DPS?

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lol?

You're bad if that's the rotation you use. No wonder you say SMN is bad.

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Originally Posted by Umbral

Our dps cant be accurately calculated right now because no parser takes into account 2! of our hardest hitting dots. I dont understand how so many people are making assumptions based on partial evidence.

Just having received ifrit i must say, I dont feel underwhelmed at all he is a good dps pet for both dungeons and questing.

TDLR: Enjoy the huge amount of utility, (Probable good dps) and effective pets!

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guess what? I do endgame raids on my SMN, and pets are pretty much worthless in terms of dmg, only use Garuda since she can add a few extra ticks to my dots. My dots do low dmg compared to other DD, and no you can't just spam ruin, while waiting to refresh dots since you will go oom in no time. ppl who Think SMN is perfect right off the bat, is in Deep denial, either that or former WoW nubs. Summoner plays nothing like a summoner. feels like playing a warlock/necromancer

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Originally Posted by Kevee

lol?

You're bad if that's the rotation you use. No wonder you say SMN is bad.

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and you're deeply naive and in total denial :D

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Originally Posted by abesut

guess what? I do endgame raids on my SMN, and pets are pretty much worthless in terms of dmg, only use Garuda since she can add a few extra ticks to my dots. My dots do low dmg compared to other DD, and no you can't just spam ruin, while waiting to refresh dots since you will go oom in no time. ppl who Think SMN is perfect right off the bat, is in Deep denial, either that or former WoW nubs. Summoner plays nothing like a summoner. feels like playing a warlock/necromancer

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in the worst case pets account the amount of auto attack damage melee classes do. Calling their dmg worthless is like calling your DoTs worthless.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

lol?

You're bad if that's the rotation you use. No wonder you say SMN is bad.

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Im just writing down all the available skills to summoner from my head I don't use that order even though the order does not matter but yeh I doubt you are better then me. It the easiest class by far and the most boring and I lol when another player who think he is doing it right and that person is doing it wrong especially from a new player. If there is a parser I guarantee you that 2 summoner will have nearly the identical dps if both of them keep all the common sense DoT and use fester. You are in cactuar and im in hyperion remember that.

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Originally Posted by Malix

in the worst case pets account the amount of auto attack damage melee classes do. Calling their dmg worthless is like calling your DoTs worthless.

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You must be wow if you love DoT on summoner and believe the pet damage is fine lol.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

The only time summoner's 'weakness' shows is against adds that you need to down quickly. We just don't have the burst of other classes (we have to wait for DoTs to build up). This is a legitimate complaint and one I hope is addressed. I understand that people are upset that the pets aren't a higher percentage of our damage.. but I can understand why summoner is built this way according to the mechanics of THIS particular game.

On another note... I've seen people complain about SMN before they even see what they can do. Summoner is a new class. Yes, all classes were 'rebuilt', but many people playing it really had 'nothing' to go by. Slowly but surely, we are learning what it is all about (the rotation is super easy)... and surprise, it's not a straight-up DD like other classes... and I'm not just talking about the fact that we rely on DoTs. We have a LOT of utility other classes don't necessarily get, but we suffer in our lack of bursts. On some fights where a LOT of adds spawn (even too much for an off tank to handle too well), I can throw Titan at these extra adds to tank them for a while. It works wonders. Also, on boss fights (without adds), I can consistently build myself up to 2nd on the hate list with only a few pieces of darklight. I don't run a parser, but this basically means that I am doing enough damage to be 2nd on the monster's hate list. If the tank dies, I'm the one the boss goes after.

If you are building an ideal party (with a nice balance), throwing in one summoner isn't going to hurt the group at all. ARR seems to be all about keeping your party versatile rather than class stacking like it was in 1.0.

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Sorry to jump in here randomly, but I'm not 50 ACN yet, and I plan to be SCH instead, but shouldnt the answer be to have the DoTs on the boss, so when adds spawn, u use bane to spread DoTs instantly? (Followed by physick spam during the swam of adds?)

For the Titan example used already, are most of the "adds" like this, where u cant use bane?

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

You must be wow if you love DoT on summoner and believe the pet damage is fine lol.

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Why should i take anything you say seriously when all you do is cry and bash smn?

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Originally Posted by Malix

Why should i take anything you say seriously when all you do is cry and bash smn?

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I bash summoner because it disgusting and it a smack in the face to Final Fantasy fans. I wanted a summoner not a boring class that spams DoT why should I not bash the summoner? It does not play anything like a summoner? You want me to say YES summoner is fine as a DoT class? Im speaking the truth Final Fantasy XIV summoner is disgusting why should I not let my feedback be heard?

You believe summoner is okay as DoT class while his pet really has no purpose? OMG Garuda died well I can just cast it again right away and use cotagion! Okay thanks garuda stay there while I wait for another cotagion OMG SO FUN!. Summoner power should be from the eggi If the summoner looses it he should be really screwed that where you can tell a skilled summoner if he is able to manage his summon correctly. having summoner as DoT you really can't tell if hes good or not and it the truth.

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Originally Posted by Malix

in the worst case pets account the amount of auto attack damage melee classes do. Calling their dmg worthless is like calling your DoTs worthless.

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Garuda is like a 100 potency dot with an hp bar. That's pretty much it. And she happens to die a lot in endgame, even in metagame dungeons against certain bosses, do I have to mention the Doom-casting minotaur?
Can't really call that being a summoner. They even took the lazy route of just reskinning carbuncle and slapping an additional 10-15 potency to the attacks/spells. Garuda is only really worthwhile in terms of dmg when you have buffed her up with Rouse and Spur >_>

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Originally Posted by abesut

and you're deeply naive and in total denial :D

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lol

What kind of damage do you need to catch up to when you have applied 3 DoTs and used a 300 potency off-GCD skill, while your pet is attacking?
If anything, SMN will be the highest right after 3 GCDs, and other people need to catch up. Again, though, this is just after 3 GCDs. Not saying long-term.

DoTs still tick when you're applying your others, it's not like they wait until you have all of them up and then they magically start ticking. By the time you use Bio->Fester, Bio II would have ticked twice and Miasma once. That's 125 potency on top of 300, on top of 3 pet attacks. That's 725 potency. The only class who can even think to match that potency in the first 3 GCDs is BLM, or a MNK who uses Steel Peak and Howling Fist within the first 2 GCDs. DRG can do it if they use Leg Sweep. We still have other options to increase this further, though, unlike those classes(not to mention using stun CDs for DPS isn't always viable. Hello there, ifrit).

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Im just writing down all the available skills to summoner from my head I don't use that order even though the order does not matter but yeh I doubt you are better then me. It the easiest class by far and the most boring and I lol when another player who think he is doing it right and that person is doing it wrong especially from a new player. If there is a parser I guarantee you that 2 summoner will have nearly the identical dps if both of them keep all the common sense DoT and use fester. You are in cactuar and im in hyperion remember that.

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The simple fact you listed Miasma II in a single target rotation, and then state that "order doesn't matter" speaks volumes.

No, you weren't just "writing them down." You posted a rotation, which is clear when you list Fester twice and Ruin II twice(in a row, which is another sign you don't know what you're doing).

Want me to nitpick more and point out how you posted your rotation? You put Thunder before Bio(LOL, stop being bad), and then implied the use of Virus/Contagion during the GCD before the next skill, Miasma II.

No, they won't. And, again, parses mean nothing at the moment.


I'm tired of people saying the class is bad when they have no idea what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by abesut

Garuda is like a 100 potency dot with an hp bar. That's pretty much it. And she happens to die a lot in endgame, even in metagame dungeons against certain bosses, do I have to mention the Doom-casting minotaur?
Can't really call that being a summoner. They even took the lazy route of just reskinning carbuncle and slapping an additional 10-15 potency to the attacks/spells. Garuda is only really worthwhile in terms of dmg when you have buffed her up with Rouse and Spur >_>

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Stop being bad. You can command your pet to go on the tile so it doesn't die from Doom.

"Die a lot endgame?"

To what? The first boss in AV? Demon Wall in AK? That's a lot?

Only worthwhile in terms of damage from being buffed up? Contagion says "Hi!"

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Originally Posted by abesut

Summoner plays nothing like a summoner. feels like playing a warlock/necromancer

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That has nothing to do with the balance of the class.

Stop bringing it up like it matters in threads like these.

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Originally Posted by abesut

guess what? I do endgame raids on my SMN, and pets are pretty much worthless in terms of dmg, only use Garuda since she can add a few extra ticks to my dots. My dots do low dmg compared to other DD, and no you can't just spam ruin, while waiting to refresh dots since you will go oom in no time.

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They are not. Garuda easily adds ~30 DPS, which factored in with 350 base(no crit) DoT damage every 3 seconds(which is roughly 116 DPS), not including any Ruin, Fester, or damage CDs(RS, Rouse/Spur, Enkindle), and not to mention we can turn our ST rotation into AoE, means we are at least "even" with everyone else, and most certainly viable. Period. Not to mention Contagion+RS, or Contagion+RS+Bane. We, being a DoT class, get a much greater benefit from RS than, say, BLM or BRD. Yes, BLM and BRD have DoTs, but not to the extent or length that SMN does. Also, those damage values are with an Ifrit book. So they can only go up.

You don't go oom when you just use Ruin I unless it's over a long period. You do if you use Ruin II every chance. Ruin II has a place in rotations, and it's when you need to use off-GCD skills. Otherwise you should be using Ruin I.

at least some people realize summoner isnt a bad dps class, sure they could use small tweaks here and there, but that comes with being the only class that wasnt "beta tested" sure some of us final fantasy fans see the summoner as a literal summon oriented class, but in an mmo environment honestly something like that just doesnt fit as well as it does in a single player game.

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Originally Posted by Lunasy

at least some people realize summoner isnt a bad dps class, sure they could use small tweaks here and there, but that comes with being the only class that wasnt "beta tested" sure some of us final fantasy fans see the summoner as a literal summon oriented class, but in an mmo environment honestly something like that just doesnt fit as well as it does in a single player game.

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Think Aion and FFXI would like to have a Word with you lol

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Originally Posted by abesut

Think Aion and FFXI would like to have a Word with you lol

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Where they didn't fit? SM had horrible balance issues(still do to this day), and SMNs were used as heal bots/AoE blink from Garuda.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Where they didn't fit? SM had horrible balance issues(still do to this day), and SMNs were used as heal bots/AoE blink from Garuda.

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Actually they did fix SMN, we can now raise the avatar lvl way above the max lvl of 99, (up to lvl 113) by equiping a item in our ammo slot, and by doing so raising their overall dmg, hp etc. Not to mention that SMN is quite good atm.
Took them a long time, but SMN is now are a really good pet job, and a good DD. Abyssea can easily be solo'd as a SMN now. :P last time I was asked to heal or be a buffer on my SMN was more than 1.5years ago.
Believe it or not, I'm actually on even footing compared to other DD, except for BLM of course

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Originally Posted by abesut

Actually they did fix SMN, we can now raise the avatar lvl way above the max lvl of 99, (up to lvl 113) by equiping a item in our ammo slot, and by doing so raising their overall dmg, hp etc. Not to mention that SMN is quite good atm.
Took them a long time, but SMN is now are a really good pet job, and a good DD. Abyssea can easily be solo'd as a SMN now. :P last time I was asked to heal or be a buffer on my SMN was more than 1.5years ago.
Believe it or not, I'm actually on even footing compared to other DD, except for BLM of course

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Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Thanks for proving my point.

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And no they're not OP as they are now :) they can just finally be on par with other DD's :D and in case you didn't know; other jobs can solo abyssea content as well ;) but I Think this will be the end of it, better keep to the topic and game

The pets have been the main thing I've been complaining about and how weak they are. Their dmg right now is much less then ours. Much less. I want my pets to do more dmg. I don't mind my personal dmg being lower. I just want stronger pets damnit