Jobs: The second crystal

Hi everyone!

I wanted to yet again discuss jobs after all they are my favorite aspect of the Final Fantasy series. This time we take a look at the next generation of jobs to come to the game, perhaps one new job for each class so that roles may be filled out a little more. I have fleshed out a great speculative guide but recently with the leak of Arcanist and Summoner I think my speculations might have just been thrown a curve ball. So here I will do my best to analyze the next generation of jobs.

*For a link to the Job Speculation Guide please scroll down to my signature*

Gladiatior - Gladiator is very unflexable and unforgiving when it comes to job designs. It is currently build on the pretenses of being a shield tank just for paladin. The good news is we may be seeing greatswords come to this class which can open up room for a melee type job. Many on the forums feel Dark Knight is a good fit here, but it doesn't fit at all. No matter what skills you give the Dark Knight, the theme and attributes of a Gladiator will never make it a viable selection. Many also consider red mage but again, Red mage will never be a viable selection here unless changes are made to the class as well as available sub action abilties.
-> Soldier
At best I would anticipate a soldier job that wields a great sword or perhaps the sought after gun-blade in combat.

Marauder - Marauder is also very particular and I had much difficulty finding the best ways to manage it. It is geared very much towards bruiser type jobs so its hard to put any kind of hybrid twist on it.
-> Beast Master
I think if arcanist gives pet management sub abilities it will be a viable option of beast master, yet this job is still very obscure. I'm not even sure if monster correlation exists in this game.
-> Viking
Taking a different approach than warrior, the viking subs THM and takes on a melee/mage combination. To ensure that their magic damage is up to strength it would require the use of a way to power up your magics before use. For further info on viking please consult my guide.

Lancer - Here is where I really want to see Dark Knight as it's potential is at it's greatest. Abilities like life surge and blood for blood already make it the prime suspect for the Dark Knight job. What does Dark Knight bring to the table as a role? Sustain tanking. Many a times I will end up in a party that can't happen to find a GLA or MRD to tank so we end up with the LNC tank.
-> Dark Knight
Dark Knight is probably one of the few jobs that can easily make it into the game RIGHT NOW with the current classes we have available for sub abilities. A sub of THM and MRD will help Dark Knight in sustain tanking using provoke necrogenesis, and blood bath.

Pugilist - Pugilist is also very obscure with the classes we currently have but It does seem to present a few options.
-> Dancer
Taking on some healing ability from conjurer and a few enfeebling ablities (see my guide) dancer can feel a lot like it's FFXI counterpart. I would like to see this style of dancer come to ffxiv whereas it utilizes dances to wither enemies and support your allies.

Archer - I know what everyone wants is what they originally anticipated.
-> Ranger
Capitalizing on Archer's ranged DPS rangers quickly become on par with the damage of dragoons and monks. To make them that much more unique I propose sharpshooting techniques to help dismantle your enemies body parts easy. I do not recommend bringing ranger to musketeer's first job. Musketeer has a few more viable and fun choices, please refer to my guide. Although, I do believe it will require a musketeer sub job to make ranger what it should be on Archer.

Conjurer - Im expecting conjurer's next job to explore it's offensive magic.
-> Geomancer
Geomancer is a great choice of this as it brings home conjurer's natural elements. Geomancer is Black Mage's cousin and handles the natural ancient magic of Quake and Tornado. Terrain and Weather also go hand in hand with the conjurer class.

Thaumaturge - At this point many could wonder what even fits on thaumaturge but if there's one thing it would be the dreaded Necromancer.
-> Necromancer
Many have requested it and it ties in perfect with the lore of the Thaumaturges guild. Again with arcanist having pet management abilities you should be able to handed undead with sub action abilities. Dark Flare or Dark Firaga would be a great combo spell to use in the Fire combo chain.

TL;DR - Removed, please read before posting.

Love your ideas for necromancer.

Interesting read. I too am very flummoxed by gladiator and how rigidly the class locks it into paladin. Frankly, I am not very fond of the job system in its current form. Though I really don't have much hope that it will be changed too drastically for 2.0.

I do love speculating about what would make for an interesting system, though... and your speculations make many valid points and good suggestions.

And I would really like to see Beastmaster make a return...

This has a very Final Fantasy Tactics (Advanced) feel to it.

And I like it. But as all good ideas that come from the forums, it will most likely be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Love your ideas for necromancer.

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I gotta admit It blew my mind when I came up with it. The prospect of self revival is epic especially since it is a trait of undead enemies namely in final fantasy tactics.

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Originally Posted by Rau

This has a very Final Fantasy Tactics (Advanced) feel to it.

And I like it. But as all good ideas that come from the forums, it will most likely be ignored.

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T_T I know right such a shame...

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

GLA -> Soldier
MRD -> Beast Master
LNC -> Dark Knight
ARC -> Ranger
PUG -> Dancer
CNJ -> Geomancer
THM -> Necromancer

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I think we'd be more likely to see Dark Knight come from GLA or possibly MRD.

LNC could become Samurai given that they have used spears both historically and in FFXI, obviously they should also be able to use a Katana.

Although, another option I could see for a Samurai job is to have it come from a class of its own, possible Parivir given that they have been an alternative to samurai in FFTA:2.

Another option I could see for PUG is Thief. Thieves have been able to use fists in FFXI, I'd also like to see them have a duel dagger weapon class added.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

I think we'd be more likely to see Dark Knight come from GLA or possibly MRD.

LNC could become Samurai given that they have used spears both historically and in FFXI, obviously they should also be able to use a Katana.

Although, another option I could see for a Samurai job is to have it come from a class of its own, possible Parivir given that they have been an alternative to samurai in FFTA:2.

Another option I could see for PUG is Thief. Thieves have been able to use fists in FFXI, I'd also like to see them have a duel dagger weapon class added.

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There is no realistic basis for Dark Knight to come from Gladiator. The class would need a major overhaul. Marauder might work but lancer is a way better fit. Marauder works better as a Dark Knight sub job along side thaumaturge.

Samurai I am infact anticipating on Lancer but it will take a 3rd generation of jobs to come out.

I do consider the possiblity of samurai's own class, but I feel then that the development team would be foolishly making new classes every time they wanted to make a new job. This would be a major waste of time and resources.

I do consider Theif for pugilist, but don't like the idea. Theif needs to play more like a stealth class, one that fits the scout class in my guide. Pugilist is too open and magic based to make any valid sense for theif. Although pugilist is definitely a great subjob for Theif considering blindside and featherfoot.

I really have to say I don't consider jobs on whim, I take extensive consideration into abilities and possibilities. I can't just say that Gladiator is fine for Dark Knight because anyone could plainly see that Gladiators don't have any abilities that could rationally represent the function of a Dark Knight. It doesn't matter if you put a great sword in it's hand or not you have to think about function.

Hello everybody,

I've just written my own ideas down and didnt paid attention to the classes / jobs from FFXI. FFXIV should use the chance to define new classes and jobs, they should fit into the current gameplay.

Gladiator -> Samurai
Type / Function: Melee DD
Additional weapon: 2-handed swords

Marauder -> Dark Knight
Type / Function: Melee + Magic DD
Additional weapon: 2-handed hammer

Pugilist -> Assassin
Type / Function: Debuff + Dots + Sneak
Additional Weapon: Hidden Blade

Lancer-> Blue Mage
Type / Function: all-round class (Water-AoE, AoE Heal, MP-withdrawal, Paralyze, etc)

Ranger -> Hunter
Type / Function: Range DD
More: Pet (for example wolf or eagle)

Musketeer -> Artillery
Type / Function: Range AoE DD + Crowd Control
Additional weapon: cannon

Musketeer -> Gunner
Type / Function: Range DD + Dots

Conjurer-> Summoner
Type / Function: Support
Other: various Summonings

Thaumaturge -> Necromancer
Type / Function: Dots + debuffs

Arcanist -> Geomancer
Type / Function: Crowd Control, Traps

Arcanist -> Mystic Knight
Type / Function: Magic Tank
Off-hand: Shield

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

There is no realistic basis for Dark Knight to come from Gladiator. The class would need a major overhaul.

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The game stands to gain more with GLA getting overhauled because it opens possibilities. And it;'d be better for said overhaul happen at 2.0's launch than after it.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

GLA -> Soldier
MRD -> Beast Master
LNC -> Dark Knight
ARC -> Ranger
PUG -> Dancer
CNJ -> Geomancer
THM -> Necromancer

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I think with the current job system it would not work like that.
For PUG i more would say Puppetmaster and not dancer -.- that'd be perfect seriously.

but i think the current job system isnt perfect for this kind of jobs.. because dark knight a job that of a lancer? seriously?
that'd mean, that the dark knight uses lances for fighting (if they dont change anything from the current system).

And that dragoon and dark knight would just make the difference between 5 skills.. wohoo.
the other skills from the class would be the same.. so a dark knight would almost play like a lancer.. with just 5 dark knight skills.
and thats why they introduced a new class for summoner. because it just mostly doesnt work at all.
lancer is almost a dragoon.. conjurer almost a white mage, thaumaturge, almost a black mage... etc. pp.


and thats why they need to introduce new classes for each new job. because the job system in FFXIV does not make really sense, jobs are just the advanced version of the class itself. i really see the only way it would work for ranger or puppetmaster. because a puppetmaster (hand to hand weapons) with the basic weapon skills of a pugilist.. thats what a puppetmaster is supposed to be (although he also would have the auras then, which i think really doesnt fit). and a ranger with the basics of the archer with then just special ranged attacks.


that would work.. for the others.. i dont really think so. a necromancer having ice, fire and thunder combos + pets? for what do i need a black mage then? that'd be too similiar really.

I have said many times before I love the idea of Blue Mage coming from lancer...just like Kimahri from FFXI at level 30 give lancer "Lancet" for absorbing spells as their first job ability.

Except in Final Fantasy XI, DRK is a Sword based class, so it can come from GLA.

What would be interesting, IMO, is to remove Shield Skill from GLA an recreate a Sentinel type subclass.

Then, create one-handed and two handed weapons for every class. After all, THM and CNJ already have it.
This way, we could have PLD from GLA Sword+Shield and DRK from GLA 2h-sword.
WAR from MRD 2h-Axe and BST or Viking from MRD Axe+Shield

And so on...

As for SAM, they should create a Ronin class, which could evolve towards SAM (2h-Katana) and NIN (Katana+Shield, or Dual Wield if jobs can have traits)

I'm for all of these, my philosophy is the more jobs the better!

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I think with the current job system it would not work like that.
For PUG i more would say Puppetmaster and not dancer -.- that'd be perfect seriously.

but i think the current job system isnt perfect for this kind of jobs.. because dark knight a job that of a lancer? seriously?
that'd mean, that the dark knight uses lances for fighting (if they dont change anything from the current system).

And that dragoon and dark knight would just make the difference between 5 skills.. wohoo.
the other skills from the class would be the same.. so a dark knight would almost play like a lancer.. with just 5 dark knight skills.
and thats why they introduced a new class for summoner. because it just mostly doesnt work at all.
lancer is almost a dragoon.. conjurer almost a white mage, thaumaturge, almost a black mage... etc. pp.


and thats why they need to introduce new classes for each new job. because the job system in FFXIV does not make really sense, jobs are just the advanced version of the class itself. i really see the only way it would work for ranger or puppetmaster. because a puppetmaster (hand to hand weapons) with the basic weapon skills of a pugilist.. thats what a puppetmaster is supposed to be (although he also would have the auras then, which i think really doesnt fit). and a ranger with the basics of the archer with then just special ranged attacks.


that would work.. for the others.. i dont really think so. a necromancer having ice, fire and thunder combos + pets? for what do i need a black mage then? that'd be too similiar really.

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Puppet Master is yes an option for pugilist but I am talking specifically about the next wave of jobs to be introduced. Puppet Master requires pet controls which are not yet implemented in the game and it unknown the extent to which arcanist will grant pet controls and sub abilities.

Lancer and I'll say it again is the most VALID choice for Dark Knight. First off Scythes are polearms and THAT is the weapon of lancers, not just lances.

Dragoon and Dark Knight would play VERY differently, although they share 15 common abilities, 10 actually not 5 are different. You neglect to include sub class abilities. Take note:

Dragoon:
Jump
Elusive Jump
Ring of Talons
Dragonfire Dive
Disembowel
Second Wind (Pugilist)
Blindside (Pugilist)
Hawk's Eye (Archer)
Quelling Strike (Archer)
Chameleon (Archer)

Dark Knight: (My design)
Drain
Soul Eater
Mass Fear
Dark Harvest
Blood Weapon
Foresight (Marauder)
Provoke (Marauder)
Overpower (Marauder)
Necrogenesis (Thaumaturge)
Sanguine Rite (Thaumaturge)

Dragoon plays a strong DPS role, while Dark Knight takes on a less DPS but gains the ability to become a sustain tank and damage in waves by sacrificing HP for Damage.
Your arguement is invalid that there is only a 5 skill difference. Class only dictates weaponskills and a few minor abilities that may loose value depending on the job you play.

Furthermore I agree that new classes are needed, I'm sure by now you've looked at my job speculation guide and the 4 additional classes I had to make up to make it work. Puppet Master can not yet exist without Pet Mastery, so dancer was the next best choice.

Necromancer would take a nerf on its magic damage. My design brings about a healer element and perpetual ressurection. You forget that stats play a role as well and that jobs are built on their job uniquities not their class similarities. Black Mages have crowd control, something that the Necromancer design does not have.

Honestly if anything, Dark Knight is the only things that is actually READY to be in game, everything else requires new class sub actions to help flesh them out to their full potential.

You lost me at necromancer.

The job just does not have a FF feel to it. (even the FFV:A version was a stretch for the series)

In fact, Puppetmaster was FFXI's answer to Necromancer so I'd rather see that as an option.

Other thoughts...

• Dark Knight seems to be a natural growth out of MRD with DRG and THM skills supporting it. DRK has always been a suicide attacker rather than a tank -- trading HP for higher DPS. That's the best way to look at the job moving forward.
• LNC into Samurai is a logical step if SAM is going to be a TP burner like FFXI's version.
• CNJ's best alt job would be Geomancer from the lore and skills.
• THM alt job could be Sage (see Tellah from FFIV) Lower MP with bigger and deadlier spells.
• GLD could easily support Red Mage, but the OP's Soldier suggestion is another great option. (Squall comes to mind)
• PGL, hmmm... best options are Puppetmaster or Dancer IMO
• ARC > Ranger is easy pick. Hard to argue with that one...
• Arcanist > Time Mage would be interesting. But we don't know much about the job at this point.

I'm a marauder and I don't think I want to become a Beastmaster...

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You lost me at necromancer.

The job just does not have a FF feel to it. (even the FFV:A bonus job version was a stretch)

In fact, Puppetmaster was FFXI's answer to Necromancer so I'd rather see that as an option.

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We should not limit Final Fantasy.
Jobs are not set in stone.

I personally love commanding the undead, I do not want a silly puppet that I felt made no sense in FF. I did love Vivi but thats it.

What could work is the limit points like in FFXI. This would prolong content and always ensure people have something to do.

In FFXI when I couldn't do any endgame or anything, it's always easy to just hop on limit parties in Aht Urgan.

Oh look, it's the job making game again.

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Puppet Master is yes an option for pugilist but I am talking specifically about the next wave of jobs to be introduced.

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"wave of jobs?" atm as far as I can see we're just getting the "missing classes" (musketeer, arcanaist) and jobs for those classes (???, arcanist). Anything beyond that will probably be in an expansion.

"the more jobs the better!"
- I'd rather have a few jobs done right than a bunch of jobs with less thought behind them.

DRK is one of the few I see people talking about that's likely to come anytime soon, but I don't know that it would go off gladiator, I think marauder would be far more likely.

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Originally Posted by Kazai

We should not limit Final Fantasy.
Jobs are not set in stone.

I personally love commanding the undead, I do not want a silly puppet that I felt made no sense in FF. I did love Vivi but thats it.

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We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

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So these golden rules of all final fantasies mean we shouldn't discuss new jobs? That's for Yoshi and his team to decide alone?

That kind of thinking only holds back innovation. (That's what this game really needs)

Thief could be an option for Gladiator since the latter is capable of wielding daggers. If they don't plan on having THF branch from GLA, they should really take daggers away from GLA.

I think the class system as it is now is very limiting in what new jobs can branch off of them. It seems kind of a waste to make a brand new class for every job since classes are pretty underutilized as they are.

For the example of Dark Knight, as OP pointed out, Lancer is the obvious choice due to the abilities that damage themselves to boost their damage output, however, Marauder or Gladiator seem like a more logical choice for the job to branch off of from a lore perspective. Gladiator is very defensive based and it's hard to justify having a pure damage dealing class like the Dark Knight branch off of it though, and Marauder is almost in the same boat.

It doesn't seem like the format of classes and jobs are changing anytime soon with the leak of Arcanist > Summoner. While I don't see new jobs branching from existing classes happening anytime soon, I hope when the time comes they can make it work out ok. I would be a bit disappointed for them to just keep creating new classes that end up becoming obsolete once you have the job unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

We don't limit FF -- the series has an established history, mythos, and design approach to it.

Some people just want to copy-paste their favorite WoW/Diablo class into the game without taking the established FF mythos into consideration.

With 14 games in the main series, the Tactics games and more in spinoffs/sequels, it's best to build off of the established lore before trying to deviate from the rule - (And deviating from the rule is something I'd reserve for Yosh and other lead designers at SE alone)

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I just hope the dev team on FFXIV can do something new and refreshing for Final Fantasy as a whole. So that when 16 or 17 comes out people can say "put job [blank] from XiV in this game."

I know Yoshi has what it takes and I hope he and the dev team express their creativity with new jobs and/or primals.
Look at the concept art for the new zones in 2.0...simply breath taking.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Gladiatior -

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There is a thread about this on the GLA subforum. i've posted my thought on it there. I'll all for the gunblade though.

I personally feel that GLA should be restricted to single handed weapons. the shield abilities should be reworked to be usable with and without a shield. until that happens GLA is locked in to tanking, as you need to block to make the abilities useful.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Marauder - Marauder is also very particular and I had much difficulty finding the best ways to manage it. It is geared very much towards bruiser type jobs so its hard to put any kind of hybrid twist on it.
-> Beast Master
I think if arcanist gives pet management sub abilities it will be a viable option of beast master, yet this job is still very obscure. I'm not even sure if monster correlation exists in this game.
-> Viking
Taking a different approach than warrior, the viking subs THM and takes on a melee/mage combination. To ensure that their magic damage is up to strength it would require the use of a way to power up your magics before use. For further info on viking please consult my guide.

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Right now MRD can easily fulfill one of two roles. Tank and DD. WAR is a tank class currently.

a more focused DD class would be nice. I like the Viking idea. but i'd love to see it dual wield axes. but if it's sub THM might as well just call it DRK. makes more sense IMO.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Lancer - Here is where I really want to see Dark Knight as it's potential is at it's greatest. Abilities like life surge and blood for blood already make it the prime suspect for the Dark Knight job. What does Dark Knight bring to the table as a role? Sustain tanking. Many a times I will end up in a party that can't happen to find a GLA or MRD to tank so we end up with the LNC tank.
-> Dark Knight
Dark Knight is probably one of the few jobs that can easily make it into the game RIGHT NOW with the current classes we have available for sub abilities. A sub of THM and MRD will help Dark Knight in sustain tanking using provoke necrogenesis, and blood bath.

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I'm not 100% sold on the DRK here being a tank. but i do agree it woudl make sense for LNC to spawn a tank-like class. the high PIE score would allow for mitigation of magic damage.

But I'd honestly rather see an enfeebling/support class come from LNC. the high PIE score will help it land those enfeebles and not sacrifice damage.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Pugilist - Pugilist is also very obscure with the classes we currently have but It does seem to present a few options.
-> Dancer
Taking on some healing ability from conjurer and a few enfeebling ablities (see my guide) dancer can feel a lot like it's FFXI counterpart. I would like to see this style of dancer come to ffxiv whereas it utilizes dances to wither enemies and support your allies.

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I always pictured THF spawning form pug. dance also makes sense and i could see a support like class spawning from pug too. but i'm not sure how viable it would be.

pug also has taunt, so i could see a tank spawning from this class too. an eva tank to take advantage of featherfoot and haymaker.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Archer - I know what everyone wants is what they originally anticipated.
-> Ranger
Capitalizing on Archer's ranged DPS rangers quickly become on par with the damage of dragoons and monks. To make them that much more unique I propose sharpshooting techniques to help dismantle your enemies body parts easy. I do not recommend bringing ranger to musketeer's first job. Musketeer has a few more viable and fun choices, please refer to my guide. Although, I do believe it will require a musketeer sub job to make ranger what it should be on Archer.

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agreed.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Conjurer - Im expecting conjurer's next job to explore it's offensive magic.
-> Geomancer
Geomancer is a great choice of this as it brings home conjurer's natural elements. Geomancer is Black Mage's cousin and handles the natural ancient magic of Quake and Tornado. Terrain and Weather also go hand in hand with the conjurer class.

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agreed.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Thaumaturge - At this point many could wonder what even fits on thaumaturge but if there's one thing it would be the dreaded Necromancer.
-> Necromancer
Many have requested it and it ties in perfect with the lore of the Thaumaturges guild. Again with arcanist having pet management abilities you should be able to handed undead with sub action abilities. Dark Flare or Dark Firaga would be a great combo spell to use in the Fire combo chain.

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i think this would overlap with the speculated arcanist/summoner too much. i think the next viable path forward for THM is to have something more enfeebling based.

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we badly need another healing class. I'd love to see chemist make an appearance.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Oh look, it's the job making game again.

"wave of jobs?" atm as far as I can see we're just getting the "missing classes" (musketeer, arcanaist) and jobs for those classes (???, arcanist). Anything beyond that will probably be in an expansion.

"the more jobs the better!"
- I'd rather have a few jobs done right than a bunch of jobs with less thought behind them.

DRK is one of the few I see people talking about that's likely to come anytime soon, but I don't know that it would go off gladiator, I think marauder would be far more likely.

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I'd like it if you didn't belittle the subject. I put some serious time and effort into making a speculation guide. Perhaps I'm wrong about my speculations, but I like to think I'm making a good contribution to the game by breaking down each job and figuring out how this rigid system works for the greatest amount of possibilities for the best results of a job. You apparently did not even look at the speculation guide which can be found in my link, which each job had extensive thought put into them, and while some of it is a work in progress, I would appreciate discussion that is constructive to the process.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

I always pictured THF spawning form pug. dancer also makes sense and i could see a support like class spawning from pug too. but i'm not sure how viable it would be.

pug also has taunt, so i could see a tank spawning from this class too. an eva tank to take advantage of featherfoot and haymaker.

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I'm always iffy with pugilist and thief, I feel that it doesn't do thief enough justice. I'd rather wait until a scout class and see it done right than rush it onto pugilist where it doesn't have much any of a stealth feel. When I think about dancer I think that curing waltz can be used as a great AoE heal based on TP. When it gets to classes like this you begin to see a lot of hybrid DD/Healers, somewhat like the Necromancer. But healing is just a party element and not something that should just be stuck on a role like white mage is bound simply because it is the prime healer/support. Take paladin for example. Paladin should be able to HEAL the team and tank. They should be able to take a white mage out of the formula, but due to insufficiant ability, they fall short.

I think the evasion tank is a good prospect but I'm still iffy about it. Only time will tell what the dev team actually decides to do.

Thank you for a constructive post btw.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I'd like it if you didn't belittle the subject. I put some serious time and effort into making a speculation guide. Perhaps I'm wrong about my speculations, but I like to think I'm making a good contribution to the game by breaking down each job and figuring out how this rigid system works for the greatest amount of possibilities for the best results of a job. You apparently did not even look at the speculation guide which can be found in my link, which each job had extensive thought put into them, and while some of it is a work in progress, I would appreciate discussion that is constructive to the process.

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I don't even understand writing a "guide" to speculation. Let people speculate about whatever they want. Speculation can be fun, personally I would rather be realistic and think about what's actually probable rather than inventing a bunch of jobs and hoping they implement them. That being said, speculation doesn't need any guidelines. This is fantasizing about what you'd like to see in the game- any expectation of actual implementation is unrealistic.

Well, I don't really agree much with the OP and I can tell you outright MRD will never become BST - we confirmed ages ago that "Shepard" was in the .dats, which will likely be the base class for BST. I imagine Assassin will function as either THF or NIN's base class as well (Bard & Dancer were in there as well along with SAM and Musketeer, but it's interesting to note that Bard ended up being a job, not a class).

GLA is is mostly fine, but I do feel it was a huge mistake removing Circle Blade as PLD really lacks any kind of AoE offensive skill - Steel Cyclone is a big part of what makes WAR so attractive as a tank. PLD could also stand to receive some more defensive buffing to make it a better alternative to WAR as currently WAR takes the hits almost (if not just) as well as a PLD while dealing out significantly more dps. I repeat - DO NOT NERF WAR, BUFF PLD SE! We don't need a repeat of XI. Lastly I'd like to point out that Fencer was also confirmed, and in early interviews Tanaka had visions of making it a job for GLA - one that would attack/gain sword skill faster. My guess is they use it as a base class for RDM and have THM as the other required class (using CNJ as the 2nd class for subskills on the action bar)

Not much to say about MRD, except that WAR is a little disappointing on the DD front. It's a great class overall, much better than it was in XI, but I was sad to see the only real offensive skill gained as WAR was Steel Cyclone (I don't count Mighty Strikes since it's a special, and they cut its duration in half). Honestly, I think they should just remove the gradual fading of Rampage altogether and change berserk back to how it worked in XI - +25% attack and -25% defense. Currently it actually doesn't boost your attack at all until you start landing hits, and then it resets when you take damage, which is going to be quite often as WAR tends to tank a lot. Oh, but it still reduces your defense the whole time @_@. MRD should be the base class for DRK however, with THM again as the other job required and then using either LNC or GLA as the other subskill set (GLA would be more fitting, but LNC has better offensive skills to offer that are more in line with DRK's theme)

LNC - LNC has been really good so far. The only thing I'd really like to see happen is an option to have the XI Wyvern, but with trade-offs. For example, while its out you can not use any sub-skills of other classes. I don't think they need to make a separate dragon master class or anything along those lines. I like how DRG is now, but I also liked XI's version quite a bit so I think the best route is to give players the option of playing either style but restricting the other otherwise DRG would be too strong. LNC should also I feel be the base class for Samurai (Unless they add a Katana class) along with ARC as Samurai were prominent users of the Naginata & Yumi (the Katana was actually rarely used for anything but executions). But knowing SE, they'll probably make Katana the main weapon as part of a new class, in which case LNC and either ARC (Yumi) or GLA (actually, you could almost argue MRD too for Bushido because of provoke but GLA seems more fitting) would be the subskills associated.

As far as PUG goes, I'm surprised they did STR & INT and not VIT & MND (or VIT & DEX) given the playstyle and general theme of MNK. Not as much HP either as in previous installments. The class functions pretty well as a DD, could maybe use some more evasion or HP but yeah, no complaints really. I'd love to see them add PUP again as a new job if and when they get around to pet classes. Or there's also White Monk from the FFTA series, but that just seems redundant in an MMO.

ARC is a bit of an oddball. I'm still having issues wrapping my head around it being Bard this time, but that was SE's call and they made it. Honestly, at this point I don't see them getting RNG. It would be nice, but I have feeling they are saving RNG for Musketeer's job, and I'm fine with that. Really, what else are you going to do with Guns but deal massive amounts of ranged damage? And since when does a bow do more damage than a gun anyway? My only fear is they instead bring back COR for Musketeer's job, since they're more or less pirates. I liked COR in XI, but I'd rather not see a return of the gambling mechanics. Oh yeah, and BRD could really use a few more songs.

Only thing I'll say about WHM is why the hell did they remove Shell. No really, WHY?! It would have been nice to help deflect some of Megaflare's damage.

As for THM/BLM, just complete the cycle. I get that they wanted to give CNJ some DD ability, but we really should have a dedicated magical DD that can strike with all 6 elements. Give BLM Water, Earth and Air magic already.

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GLA is is mostly fine, but I do feel it was a huge mistake removing Circle Blade as PLD really lacks any kind of AoE offensive skill - Steel Cyclone is a big part of what makes WAR so attractive as a tank. PLD could also stand to receive some more defensive buffing to make it a better alternative to WAR as currently WAR takes the hits almost (if not just) as well as a PLD while dealing out significantly more dps. I repeat - DO NOT NERF WAR, BUFF PLD SE!

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You can't fix every balance problem by buffing the weaker thing. Eventually you get to a point where everything hits a cieling where buffing without becoming OP is extremely difficult, you essentially buff yourself into a corner. That doesn't necessarily mean in this case that WAR is OP, I'm just saying pleading for buffs over nerfs is not constructive. It's more practical to implement whatever needs to be implemented to bring things into balance. You can't just buff everything to match the best class/job every time.

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ARC is a bit of an oddball. I'm still having issues wrapping my head around it being Bard this time, but that was SE's call and they made it.

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I did find it a bit odd as well, but I like what they did with it. It makes Bard a lot more fun than it was in FFXI. I'd agree with you that if there is a ranger, it would most likely come off musketeer.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Well, I don't really agree much with the OP and I can tell you outright MRD will never become BST - we confirmed ages ago that "Shepard" was in the .dats, which will likely be the base class for BST. I imagine Assassin will function as either THF or NIN's base class as well (Bard & Dancer were in there as well along with SAM and Musketeer, but it's interesting to note that Bard ended up being a job, not a class).

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It's worth keeping in mind that was in the dats BEFORE Yoshida took over as Producer/Director for the game and that many of those classes may never make it into the game.

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GLA is is mostly fine, but I do feel it was a huge mistake removing Circle Blade as PLD really lacks any kind of AoE offensive skill - Steel Cyclone is a big part of what makes WAR so attractive as a tank. PLD could also stand to receive some more defensive buffing to make it a better alternative to WAR as currently WAR takes the hits almost (if not just) as well as a PLD while dealing out significantly more dps. I repeat - DO NOT NERF WAR, BUFF PLD SE! We don't need a repeat of XI.

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I miss Circle Blade as well, but I don't agree with your other points. I think PLD is in a good spot right now.

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Not much to say about MRD, except that WAR is a little disappointing on the DD front. It's a great class overall, much better than it was in XI, but I was sad to see the only real offensive skill gained as WAR was Steel Cyclone (I don't count Mighty Strikes since it's a special, and they cut its duration in half).

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With the right gear a WAR does good damage. There's someone in my LS with a Bravura and full Darklight damage gear and she puts out some pretty good numbers. Even without the relic weapon they still do well. Just most of the time people look to Warriors as tanks and they have to gear as such, so people miss the damage potential.

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LNC - LNC has been really good so far. The only thing I'd really like to see happen is an option to have the XI Wyvern, but with trade-offs. For example, while its out you can not use any sub-skills of other classes. I don't think they need to make a separate dragon master class or anything along those lines.

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I think DRG is a bit underrated since people develop strategies that don't involve them too much, but they are a great damage dealer. The wyvern issue is one that's been beaten to death and the lore in this game does not support Dragoon's having a pet dragon.

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Only thing I'll say about WHM is why the hell did they remove Shell. No really, WHY?! It would have been nice to help deflect some of Megaflare's damage.

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Shell is added to CNJ/WHM via a passive trait.

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As for THM/BLM, just complete the cycle. I get that they wanted to give CNJ some DD ability, but we really should have a dedicated magical DD that can strike with all 6 elements. Give BLM Water, Earth and Air magic already.

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Unless they change CNJ/WHM's damage over to purely Holy damage, I don't see THM/BLM expanding too much. It would be nice to see them have more in their arsenal though.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except in Final Fantasy XI, DRK is a Sword based class, so it can come from GLA.

What would be interesting, IMO, is to remove Shield Skill from GLA an recreate a Sentinel type subclass.

Then, create one-handed and two handed weapons for every class. After all, THM and CNJ already have it.
This way, we could have PLD from GLA Sword+Shield and DRK from GLA 2h-sword.
WAR from MRD 2h-Axe and BST or Viking from MRD Axe+Shield

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Well that would work maybe..

My personal opinion about the recent job system is, when they want new jobs to be more exciting..

to reduce the number of skills for the base class (gladiator etc.) and increase the number of job skills. so as you said, switch sentinel for example to paladin only.
i would like the current job system more, if the jobs introduce at least.. dont know.. about 8 skills. 5 are too less in my opinion.


Especially when you introduce a second job for a basic class. right now, the second job would just differenciate between 5 skills.. the others would be shared with the other job. thats boring to me. the two "different" jobs from a same class (for example paladin and dark knight sharing gladiator skills), would mostly play the same .


so i say they should reduce the skills from the basic class, and increase the skills for the jobs.
otherwise i think we will have some problems in the near future. (when they are going to introduce a 2. job for a class). or they are going to introduce a new class for each new job..

I don't think they will be creating more than one tree from the classes we have now. I think every Class will have 1 tree job. Would be interesting and I love the ideas.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

WAR from MRD 2h-Axe and BST or Viking from MRD Axe+Shield

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I like this idea, except that I would expect them to have the Viking AF look like this...and the shouts. It has to have shouts. *nod*

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I'm always iffy with pugilist and thief, I feel that it doesn't do thief enough justice. I'd rather wait until a scout class and see it done right than rush it onto pugilist where it doesn't have much any of a stealth feel.

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Thiefs are good with their hands. pug: h2h class
Thiefs usually use small weapons they can hide on themselves: swap knuckles for daggers. many knuckle weapons are easy to hide.
Thiefs are stealthy: pug has lots of evasion based abilities and blind side

only thing a scout class could really offer that pug does not have is ranged.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

When I think about dancer I think that curing waltz can be used as a great AoE heal based on TP. When it gets to classes like this you begin to see a lot of hybrid DD/Healers, somewhat like the Necromancer. But healing is just a party element and not something that should just be stuck on a role like white mage is bound simply because it is the prime healer/support. Take paladin for example. Paladin should be able to HEAL the team and tank. They should be able to take a white mage out of the formula, but due to insufficiant ability, they fall short.

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in FFT, i always thought of dancer as more of a buffer/debuffer class. that's why i agreed with the initial assessment as supporty. i'm not fond of the idea of dancer as a backup healer. doesn't make a lot of sense to me. it could be a good gap closer though. as we do sorely need another healing class.

my only beef is that a lot of people have all the classes leveled right now. makes it very hard to find healers while leveling. when i leveled whm up from level 1, it went super fast, just because healers are super high demand because of the lack of options.

if pug became a backup healer we'll have the same problem. except not everyone will level pug because they want to heal. they'll probably be leveling it because they want to DD (IE: mnk)

being a more offensive role (debuffer) is more tolerable than going to the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I think the evasion tank is a good prospect but I'm still iffy about it. Only time will tell what the dev team actually decides to do.

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yeah. some people like evasion tanks. it's an option. doesn't mean it will happen though. it also gives more reason to have taunt. >.>;;

i use this in small man stuff. and you can throw it if the healers happen to pull hate. but for the most part i feel like 'why do i have taunt...'

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Thank you for a constructive post btw.

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np :p

they just need to give us more job skills than the 5 we have atleast give us 10 for lv50

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Originally Posted by Onisake

if pug became a backup healer we'll have the same problem. except not everyone will level pug because they want to heal. they'll probably be leveling it because they want to DD

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If PUG became a backup healer it doesn't necessarily mean people will want to DD, its what ever the party can scrap together to make a formidable force. If you have a PUG that can either go dancer or monk then you either don't have to worry about either finding another healer or finding another damage dealer as the pugilist can elect to go either way, such is the beauty of instant specialization. The goal is to level your Class. In a game that promotes playing multiple roles, people should get used to the flexibility in tweaking a class via job stone into a completely new role.

Plus I think were more worried about end game/boss content party strategy than the typical leveling pace. In 2.0 leveling is going to be quest based and you are basically going to be able to level without the use of job stones so it wouldn't matter if people leveled to play a specific job or not, they need to understand that their class is what matters most.

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Originally Posted by indira

they just need to give us more job skills than the 5 we have atleast give us 10 for lv50

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Oooo I would not do that. More skills means more crap to manage. Its not the amount of skills you have but how you use them. Take league of legends for instance. Every champion gets 4 skills and a passive. You have to play to the function of your skills, not unneeded spam on repetitive actions. More skills take tactical decision making out of the game.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

It's worth keeping in mind that was in the dats BEFORE Yoshida took over as Producer/Director for the game and that many of those classes may never make it into the game.



I miss Circle Blade as well, but I don't agree with your other points. I think PLD is in a good spot right now.



With the right gear a WAR does good damage. There's someone in my LS with a Bravura and full Darklight damage gear and she puts out some pretty good numbers. Even without the relic weapon they still do well. Just most of the time people look to Warriors as tanks and they have to gear as such, so people miss the damage potential.



I think DRG is a bit underrated since people develop strategies that don't involve them too much, but they are a great damage dealer. The wyvern issue is one that's been beaten to death and the lore in this game does not support Dragoon's having a pet dragon.


Shell is added to CNJ/WHM via a passive trait.


Unless they change CNJ/WHM's damage over to purely Holy damage, I don't see THM/BLM expanding too much. It would be nice to see them have more in their arsenal though.

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Right now, WAR tends to outshine PLD is most scenarios because they take similar damage while WAR has significantly more HP and damage output (including no less than 3 AoE attacks). That's why I feel PLD could do with some straight up damage reduction traits to emphasize the difference in play styles; WAR is more of a powerhouse, while PLD can take more punishment & spike hate easier on command. I never said WAR can't do good damage, just that I was surprised that WAR didn't really add much in the way of DPS to MRD outside of steel cyclone & mighty strikes. But I'm also OK with that, as it means WAR is a viable secondary tank, unlike in XI.

WHM/CNJ having shell as a passive doesn't help the party survive nasty stuff like Megaflare. We need it as a spell again for enemies that attack mostly with magic, or have very high damage spells like MF.

I made "this" Job Idea while I was free, this Idea is "If" SE doesn't change the Class>Job System.

The found at least 2 solution;
First being the Abolishing of Class and made into Individual Jobs, with the addition of Sub-Abilities like what we have now.

Second being the early separation of Jobs and Class skill. I.E. GLA Skills only up to Lv.15, then Job split at Lv.15 (PLD or SOL) allowing more uniqueness to each others' skill on the contrary to the current "Class & Job Skill" where if there is a 2nd Job Root, it will only have 5 Unique Ability. (Which IMO sucks)

I also made a googledoc on "XIV Free Ideas" Check it out or maybe give some input :D I'm just trying to gather up nice Ideas !

You know, people who say a class or job shouldn't be a cause it's not part of tradition...

There are 14 Final Fantasy games, not including the spin-offs.

If we don't include 6, cause anyone can really be anything in it. That's about 3 or 4 FF games that had class/jobs.

3~4/14 games that's less than half, that shouldn't dictate tradition.

Why can't there be a Chaotic Good Necromancer? Someone who is willing to do evil to do good? Oh look the warrior killed the only man that knew the certain information you needed to progress. Oh look now you have your friendly necromancer raise the guys soul temporarily to ask for information and he can't lie to the necromancer.

Yes Necromancy is frowned upon, but to become a sage among magic-users, you have to know all forms of magic.