Post Duty damage meter

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

You can kinda read how well a party is doing in a duty through enmity list and how quick stuff dies. If healer is second in enmity then dps obviously are undergeared or don't understand their rotation (or both). With enough game sense/experience you can tell without any overview at the end what could've gone better.

Some folk also just put blinders on for their roulette reward (lord knows those are just as common in Frontlines). Add that results would be too varied, things like role, gear, melds, knowing how to optimize, and understanding of mechanics. Newbie might be given the idea they're performing poorly when they're just learning a new boss and had just enough ilvl to queue.

I don't expect an end of duty stat overview to bring much change other than make the game bleed casuals, and as of right now they probably don't want more to drop.

There was that one boss in Lapis Manalis that gave your party a grade based on the kill speed. As a mechanic, it worked since that doll was a battle instructor for reapers. Most PF parties with no deaths would get a score of 7. A party with a death or two would get a 12. Getting a score of 1 required hacking the dungeon with 4 BiS DPS on release, iirc.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

My God are people this desperate for damage meters? Even if the duty is already done, what's stopping someone from going off on a DPS for doing poor dps or a Healer for barely healing or a tank for taking way too much damage without using mitigations?

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The fact that they can get reported to a GM for doing so after the fact, for one.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

My God are people this desperate for damage meters? Even if the duty is already done, what's stopping someone from going off on a DPS for doing poor dps or a Healer for barely healing or a tank for taking way too much damage without using mitigations?

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There is no desperation at all in my post, I am simply asking for thoughts and feedback. Yikes

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

My God are people this desperate for damage meters? Even if the duty is already done, what's stopping someone from going off on a DPS for doing poor dps or a Healer for barely healing or a tank for taking way too much damage without using mitigations?

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Whats stopping? the TOS just like they do right now?
If you hunt someone you get the hammer...
Is it so hard to imagine that some people like to compete with friends in a friendly manner or evaluate your personal performance for yourself to improve yourself?

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

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They had to disable chat due to toxicity and you think that somehow had nothing to do with the scoreboard?

Buddy, get real. It absolutely did. Hell, people use the social list to harass people afterwards.

You want that for *all* content? Just no more chat or people being gone after because they weren't top deeps in halatali?

Because people who would do that exist in numbers that are sickening on this game.

It will not be used for those purposes. You know that, so perhaps find some sincerity on the matter.

It's as if their GMs are all too busy doing something that they can't uphold their own ToS... yeah.. some underground popoto farming in starting cities, perhaps.

I'm ambivalent overall. Ppl will get shitty for other reasons so long they're shitty at the core. On the other hand, there's also "send ss of your scoreboard".

It would be really good to have a dps meter in the game, that way you can see if one person is holding the other 7 back. You can then remove them and get another person that will help clear the fight.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

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With how this community is it is 100% safe that this would only nurture toxicity in large parts of the content. Some weirdos would probably even start gatekeeping ARR dungeons just so they can feel superior about their damage numbers.
As a personal thing in ex/savage/ultimate it might have some sort of usage but on the rest? I simply do not trust this community to be considerate with something like this at all, especially those who have an unhealthy obsession with these numbers. Just look at the forum and how people are being treated with "git gud" and "skill issue" by simply asking for accessibility features.

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Originally Posted by MiaBlaze-Cari

With how this community is it is 100% safe that this would only nurture toxicity in large parts of the content. Some weirdos would probably even start gatekeeping ARR dungeons just so they can feel superior about their damage numbers.
As a personal thing in ex/savage/ultimate it might have some sort of usage but on the rest? I simply do not trust this community to be considerate with something like this at all, especially those who have an unhealthy obsession with these numbers. Just look at the forum and how people are being treated with "git gud" and "skill issue" by simply asking for accessibility features.

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Are these people with an unhealthy obsession with these numbers in the room with us right now?

It wouldn't work too well, because people tend to give facts an emotion.

The closest thing you could do is obfuscate all the numbers and just replace it with phrases like "You did really good!", "You were amazing!", "You did your best!" because people out there will get upset at raw data showing that their feelcraft ice-only BLM that can only use 6 of the 34 skills available to them at level 100 had dealt less DPS than the AST who pressed malefic & combust a few times and then went afk to order some pizza.

well I think it shouldn't be in the game outside of PvP because well now people can literally blacklist people and share the one that would do bad in DPS as DPS. the toxicity will be high like insanely high

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Originally Posted by theunhappypotato

Are these people with an unhealthy obsession with these numbers in the room with us right now?

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No, they're in the game being cruel to sprouts

Yes! Wildstar had something similar where at the end of an instance it would show you (and only you) how well you did compared to your party during the dungeon for damage, execution, and deaths. It did not show anyone else your rank, so you didn't get anyone using it to target specific low performers. It honestly was one of the things that brought me from chilling as a casual housing nerd to coming to love number crunching performance gaming.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

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Depends what type of info if you're talking for pve, because the damage tallies in pvp are a lot less relevant especially considering that class pick, team composition, and whether or not you spend your time defending/frontlining vs actually pew-pewing to your heart's content will wildly affect this. Padding is also a thing, and you can perfectly have crazy high numbers but actually contribute so little to actual moves that matters or securing/assisting kills that it's far from telling the whole story. If anything, the pve habits (keep casting, keep things on cd etc) are generally the hint of poor pvp play, but good scoreboard padding.

On the other hand, pve is just about damage damage damage and even more damage. It has zero depth and no variables (beyond gear differences and limitations), so a pve DPS meter is absolutely not comparable.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

They had to disable chat due to toxicity and you think that somehow had nothing to do with the scoreboard?

Buddy, get real. It absolutely did. Hell, people use the social list to harass people afterwards.

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It actually didn't, for the reasons I mentioned above. The reason people are toxic in pvp is like for any competitive online pvp game, they get mad at teamates for all the reasons in the world, be it teamates making genuine mistakes to just imagining that all their woes come from another teamate. Chat got toxic in Feast before the scoreboard appeared.

People always think "Oh no i get harassed because there is now a DPS Meter" and forget the fact a DPS Meter is one of the most important Tools to see improvements, the same with FFLogs for now, the way Combat in Final works with the Snapshotting is incredible bad, without FFLogs you just cant get enough Informations and dont come me with "read the battlelog" everyone which says now he goes through thousand of lines with Battlelogs are straight up liar.

so yes i want a dps meter even if it means after the duty, even if it means only a dps meter which shows MY stats, so long its accurate it would be great

But if people see everyone's DPS, then they might see how badly designed and unbalanced everything is.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

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I'd be fine with an ingame damage meter that is visible only to you and collects only your performace.

When I played WoW, the only reason why I had Recount (damage metter addon) was to keep an eye live if I was pulling the numbers I should've been pulling at my ilvl/gear. It let me know what kind of situations my dps plummeted more so I could get better.

As someone who plays on console and can't use addons I appreciate being grouped with people using ACT. I like the ability to look at my logs and see how well I did on any particular fight. See where I need to improve.

I do wish there was at the very least a personal dps meter and rating in game. Just the ability to see how you're doing without having to use an external source.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty. For those players that have been around for over a decade PVP was extremely toxic and that's the reason chat is muted in CC matches.

I know having a damage meter during content is Divisive for people but I dont see the harm in letting people know post completion how things worked out in the run. This would be a stepping stone to seeing how the community would react to a change.

would you all be on board with a post completion stat tracker ? I think its a good idea

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I cna't tell if you're trolling or not because you been on here since 2017. duty finder or not, that stuff would get real toxic real fast. even before ACT people become toxic during 2.0 if you weren't dpsing or tanking correctly. I rather SE focus on other things. Damage meters are the least of their priorities. things are a ok right now. If anything they need to put back dps checks in dungeons and scale them appropriately to ilevel for the party.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

People always think "Oh no i get harassed because there is now a DPS Meter" and forget the fact a DPS Meter is one of the most important Tools to see improvements, the same with FFLogs for now, the way Combat in Final works with the Snapshotting is incredible bad, without FFLogs you just cant get enough Informations and dont come me with "read the battlelog" everyone which says now he goes through thousand of lines with Battlelogs are straight up liar.

so yes i want a dps meter even if it means after the duty, even if it means only a dps meter which shows MY stats, so long its accurate it would be great

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don't bring up fflogs or third party tools. SE will go after that next. no one learns do they.

A damage meter is useful only if it comes with some reference point for evaluating high vs. low — and that reference point would, ideally, take into account job, ilvl, melds, crit variance, etc.

Otherwise, you might as well show me random numbers for all that's worth.

(And that's to say nothing of the next question, "Why is my damage bad?", something that's difficult to answer without the ability to analyze what happened when over the course of an encounter…)

Do you really believe that PvP matches statistics don't create toxicity? Oh my sweet summer child...

First of all, CC is a very small community of people. They almost all know each other besides a few sprouts. These "well-known" people will look upon how you did, then match you with ignore mark the next game if you come into their team and potentially troll or afk the whole match.

Then these people will go on discord server made for ffxiv online pvp where they will brag about how you were bad, name and shame you and then screenshot whenever you go, see your char and much stalking involved.

So thinking that pvp is very safe is just not true. People will shame, mark you and do emotes on your body. Unless you are in group with them and they know you.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

don't bring up fflogs or third party tools. SE will go after that next. no one learns do they.

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none of them costs square money or shows off nfsw content, and there was older screens which showed on a LL that yoshi had act on his desktop, so the possibility is so small that this will happen

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

-and there was older screens which showed on a LL that yoshi had act on his desktop, so the possibility is so small that this will happen

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? As far as I'm aware, the only pic of that that exists is an edited meme screenshot.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Depends what type of info if you're talking for pve, because the damage tallies in pvp are a lot less relevant especially considering that class pick, team composition, and whether or not you spend your time defending/frontlining vs actually pew-pewing to your heart's content will wildly affect this. Padding is also a thing, and you can perfectly have crazy high numbers but actually contribute so little to actual moves that matters or securing/assisting kills that it's far from telling the whole story. If anything, the pve habits (keep casting, keep things on cd etc) are generally the hint of poor pvp play, but good scoreboard padding.

On the other hand, pve is just about damage damage damage and even more damage. It has zero depth and no variables (beyond gear differences and limitations), so a pve DPS meter is absolutely not comparable.



It actually didn't, for the reasons I mentioned above. The reason people are toxic in pvp is like for any competitive online pvp game, they get mad at teamates for all the reasons in the world, be it teamates making genuine mistakes to just imagining that all their woes come from another teamate. Chat got toxic in Feast before the scoreboard appeared.

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Not the point being made. There is no scenario where you can add an element like this to the pve aspect of the game and it not result in toxicity.

Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Not the point being made. There is no scenario where you can add an element like this to the pve aspect of the game and it not result in toxicity.

Get over it.

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Thats not even true, like i said previous, add a dps meter which shows only YOUR OWN DPS and Stats/Casts etc etc etc now you can compare yourself with other Vipers which arent against it, so where is now the toxicity?

And even if they would add a full group dps meter which sadly wont happen why are people so afraid of it? Are they worried because people could see that they press only 1 button every 10s, i said it so often nobody expect that people play like a god, only to carry the own weight thats not toxic thats normal human behaviour

I think a personal rating or score shown to you at the end to allow you to know how you're doing would be really nice. Bonus if you can enable it yourself, as an opt-in for those who want it. I sometimes wonder 'am I doing OK?' with my class, and being on the PS5 I have no way of accessing some of the tools that PC users have to measure themselves. I know stone/sky/sea can give you a very general idea, but it'd be nice for something more in-depth.

Terrible idea and there's a reason why a DPS meter hasn't been implemented in the game. PvP stats work because PvP is literally about competing. Besides the objective, the scoreboard is the content. You aren't competing against people in PvE you're competing against a boss. The second that a dps meter would be implemented, people would stop caring as much about mechanics and start stat padding so they can screenshot it for Discord. As a WoW refugee, when people start obsessing over DPS it brings in harassment and elitism every single time. It doesn't matter who in your party is the lowest on the DPS meter as long as the content gets cleared.

If you care more about numbers than the duty complete screen, maybe you're playing the wrong MMO twin...

No, thank you. There is no need for something like that in the more casual content. In the more endgame content, there are already tools the community utilizes but SE has always been adamant about not using them against other players. Having an official measurement in game would dilute that grey area they can exist in, so there's no reason for SE to implement it. Not to mention it would lead to toxicity in the more casual content over something that isn't needed there because there will always be those more concerned about their numbers than enjoying the run with other people.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Not the point being made. There is no scenario where you can add an element like this to the pve aspect of the game and it not result in toxicity.

Get over it.

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Get over what? Do you think I'm defending the addition to a DPS meter to pve or something? I'm saying that the scoreboard is NOT the source of toxicity in pvp, which you advanced in your post. And just as I wrote above, comparing the pvp damage meter with whatever meter would be in pve makes zero sense because both modes don't work around damage the same way at all. That's why adding a full damage meter to pve where you'd get the numbers for everybody would result in a big rise in toxicity, because of the reason I brought up: pve is all about damage, damage and damage again with no other variables.

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Originally Posted by Everbox

If you care more about numbers than the duty complete screen, maybe you're playing the wrong MMO twin...

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To be fair, DPS checks do exist in this game. Sometimes, the numbers do actually have to hit some minimum threshold or else you're not seeing that Duty Complete screen.

And even without DPS checks, improving those numbers might mean you get to that Duty Complete screen sooner rather than later.

The problem is when someone tries to "greed" those numbers instead of playing it on the safer side.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

To be fair, DPS checks do exist in this game. Sometimes, the numbers do actually have to hit some minimum threshold or else you're not seeing that Duty Complete screen.

And even without DPS checks, improving those numbers might mean you get to that Duty Complete screen sooner rather than later.

The problem is when someone tries to "greed" those numbers instead of playing it on the safer side.

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Obviously DPS checks exist, but that’s a far cry from handing players a full-on meter to obsess over the entire fight. Mindsets will shift from focusing on learning mechanics to looking at their number on the DPS meter. Improving your numbers can speed up clears, yes, but only if you actually understand the fights. The vast majority of raid wipes, over 90% by most community estimates, are caused by players not handling mechanics correctly, not by low DPS. In cases where mechanics are executed properly by everyone and the DPS check still isn’t hit, you can just look at enmity order to see who’s contributing least instead of begging SE to add a meter.

Add it in.

If someone behaves poorly using it as a weapon to do so, then you just report them. Are you more scared of making a report ticket or something?

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Originally Posted by Everbox

Obviously DPS checks exist, but that’s a far cry from handing players a full-on meter to obsess over the entire fight. Mindsets will shift from focusing on learning mechanics to looking at their number on the DPS meter. Improving your numbers can speed up clears, yes, but only if you actually understand the fights. The vast majority of raid wipes, over 90% by most community estimates, are caused by players not handling mechanics correctly, not by low DPS. In cases where mechanics are executed properly by everyone and the DPS check still isn’t hit, you can just look at enmity order to see who’s contributing least instead of begging SE to add a meter.

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Nah, ff14 needs dps meter simply to call out not bad play but literal botters pretending to be "casual tee hee" in any content.

Just google auto duty, auto rotation etc. People blatantly cheat to do roulettes and nothing you can do about it.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Add it in.

If someone behaves poorly using it as a weapon to do so, then you just report them. Are you more scared of making a report ticket or something?

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nah because of SE lack of accountibility and people are people and will be toxic because its happened before.

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Originally Posted by Darty123

After PVP matches there is a post stat chart with kills, deaths, healing done ect when the duty is Complete. There seems to be no toxic behavior that I have encountered with it being displayed at the end of the duty.

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Since the statistics page at the end of a match shows your full character name and home world, there were cases of people traveling to someone's home world just to harass them for real or perceived underperformance. It doesn't happen often, but there are people who are unhinged enough to do that. It would probably be far worse in PvE purely due to the fact that more people partake in PvE compare to PvP.

As for people who say "Just report people who harass you", why would the dev team implement something that potentially increases the number of reports the GM team needs to handle?

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Nah, ff14 needs dps meter simply to call out not bad play but literal botters pretending to be "casual tee hee" in any content.

Just google auto duty, auto rotation etc. People blatantly cheat to do roulettes and nothing you can do about it.

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if you think a DPS meter will magically stop botters, I fear you're delusional. People will find ways to cheat no matter what tools SE gives them. Adding a meter just shifts focus from learning mechanics to obsessing over numbers and breeds toxicity for everyone else. IF someone is auto-rotating or botting, there's already logs, reports, and SE monitoring to deal with them. Creating a DPS meter isn't going to solve the issue you're bringing up.