Inappropriate line of Emmanellain after the "Unrest in Ishgard" quest

Hello. I'd like to report a rather old NPC line during Heavensward Main Scenario Quests.

After completing the "Unrest in Ishgard" quest, it's possible to find Emmanellain in the Jeweled Crozier. If the player talks to him, there are such lines:

https://i.imgur.com/MBnSGj9.png
https://i.imgur.com/MTJupat.png


Although, in Japanese version he only says this ("The topics of gossip lovers in the Imperial Capital are constantly changing. Apparently they saw Iceheart during the commotion surrounding the heretic's invasion of the Imperial Capital! Wow, she was apparently a beauty!"):

https://i.imgur.com/lRC9eq1.png

I think it's obvious, the hair color where Emmanellain means. It sounds rather unpleasant and lewd, for this an additional dialog window was even added, and also Ysayle's next appearance in the story shows her sacrifice. I find this line out of place with such a context. I would like it to be paid attention to.

Thank you.

Emmanelain isn't the world's biggest gentleman but this does feel a little too far, even for him.

The only problem I see with this is that it's not a direct translation of the JP text.

On its own, admittedly, I think it's actually quite funny. It's a 13+ rated game, after all, so I don't see the issue with this type of perverted humor.

There are certainly more graphic things in this game than this (such as lalafell courtesans) but this assertion that these this is inappropriate are exactly why we have Haurchefant being censored.
Please stop condoning censorship.
It leads to a worse game.

I agree that it should be changed, but not for the reason that the OP claims.

I think the question here isn't whether it corresponds to the age rating, but in the context. Mentioning or showing courtesanism as a phenomenon (and it doesn't matter, among the lalafells or not, because lalafaels ≠ children) isn't the same as openly asking about the color of a woman's pubic hair, and where does this interest come from, if white or other "odd" hair isn't a rarity in the game universe, Emmanellain literally has a blue-haired half-brother, or did he also ask this question about him? xD And this isn't just the localizers adding a line to background NPCs, like replacing lines for some NPCs in Kugane, but the words of one important MSQ character about another MSQ character. Even if this line is skippable, it is still there, and this isn't a hint, this is an absolutely direct question, and is it ok to add while next time WoL meets Ysayle is her death? This isn't censorship, as with Haurchefant (to whom I have no reservations in the JP version and whose character change also upsets me), whose hints were much more ambiguous, and how can these words be equivalent censorship if JP Haurchefant was changed by the localizers themselves, when OP question concerns the fact that the localizers added words to their translation that are absent in the Japanese version. But one thing is true: poking a finger at genitals and laughing is quite suitable for 13-year-olds, that's why it's not a question of age rate, and it's very sad for me that the game has so many jokes like this one.

The sentence seems open ended enough that it could be anything. If that's where your mind goes .. well. You can say it's implied or obvious, but you can only know for sure if you asked the person that translated it to this what their intent was.

I'd just read the sentence as something else if the implication bothered me that much. "I wonder, what's the color of the hair like when seen under a moonlit sky? Her beauty must melt a man's heart then, surely!"

He's not finishing the sentence. Your mind is filling in what he was going to say, based on your own expectations.

As a fan of lady ice heart i take offense to this npc as well we should petition them to be kicked out of ishgard. XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chyro

The sentence seems open ended enough that it could be anything. If that's where your mind goes .. well. You can say it's implied or obvious, but you can only know for sure if you asked the person that translated it to this what their intent was.

I'd just read the sentence as something else if the implication bothered me that much. "I wonder, what's the color of the hair like when seen under a moonlit sky? Her beauty must melt a man's heart then, surely!"

He's not finishing the sentence. Your mind is filling in what he was going to say, based on your own expectations.

---

This would be possible if he hasn't stopped short when he sees Honoroit next to him "suddenly", so it'sunlikely that it's just some kind of poetic compliment. And why then add an additional dialog box for the sake of just another compliment? This was obviously done intentionally, and in the context only the lewd ending fits, and it's not at all about my "corruption", but about logic and, again, situation context.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Telkira

The only problem I see with this is that it's not a direct translation of the JP text.

On its own, admittedly, I think it's actually quite funny. It's a 13+ rated game, after all, so I don't see the issue with this type of perverted humor.

There are certainly more graphic things in this game than this (such as lalafell courtesans) but this assertion that these this is inappropriate are exactly why we have Haurchefant being censored.
Please stop condoning censorship.
It leads to a worse game.

I agree that it should be changed, but not for the reason that the OP claims.

---

My issue isn't the perverted humor. My issue is more that this is wildly out of character for Emmanellain. There are some sailor/pirate NPCs in ARR who talk WAY more crudely, but you'd expect it from them. Here, it makes very little sense.

It's just a dirty way of questioning if her hair colour is natural or not. Not exactly a common "joke", but not a rare one. It's in keeping with the tone of ARR and HW's writing, which could get pretty blue sometimes, and I don't really get how it's out of character for someone like Emmannellain.

I can see why you'd find it gross as a matter of personal taste, but picking out this scene out of all the other crude jokes and differing translations is a bit weird. You know like 80% of the jokes and references in the game are purely an English localisation thing and not in the JP translation, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

It's just a dirty way of questioning if her hair colour is natural or not. Not exactly a common "joke", but not a rare one. It's in keeping with the tone of ARR and HW's writing, which could get pretty blue sometimes, and I don't really get how it's out of character for someone like Emmannellain.

I can see why you'd find it gross as a matter of personal taste, but picking out this scene out of all the other crude jokes and differing translations is a bit weird. You know like 80% of the jokes and references in the game are purely an English localisation thing and not in the JP translation, right?

---

Of course I know, ARR and HW are the most changed ones. Like, the last cutscene of DRK 50 lvl quests is absolutely different in localization. But this is a question for an another thread xD

I understand that 80% of the localization is the translators' own ideas which even aren't connected with "cultural differences", this is a very common practice in EN localizations, but is this an excuse? I'm not saying that there's a need to check the entire localization and remove the gross jokes, it's just that here the situation is almost the same as with the old description of Moenbryda's minion. A gross joke about a character who sacrificed herself for the WoL and friends. As I already said, this is a mockery of the context, and it's also pretty out of Emmanellain's character. I added a screenshot from the JP version only to provide context, that this is not just a "translation of what was", but an inappropriate thing added for some unknown reason. If there was a complaint about the quality of the translation, I would say about other things/quests/lines, not this moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Margasian

Of course I know, ARR and HW are the most changed ones. Like, the last cutscene of DRK 50 lvl quests is absolutle different in localization. But this is a question for an another thread xD

I understand that 80% of the localization is the translators' own ideas which even aren't connected with "cultural differences", this is a very common practice in EN localizations, but is this an excuse? I'm not saying that there's a need to check the entire localization and remove the gross jokes, it's just that here the situation is almost the same as with the old description of Moenbryda's minion. A gross joke about a character who sacrificed herself for the WoL and friends. As I already said, this is a mockery of the context, and it's also pretty out of Emmanellain's character.

---

Nah, it's not the same at all. It's a lead off into a crass joke abut a character's hair colour, the minion description was something completely different. I don't think the fact that she later died really has anything to do with it, either - if he'd said it after she died, I could understand, but a random NPC aside earlier on in the game isn't really a big deal. I don't get how it's any more a "mockery" than any other alternative translation. Like I said, it seems totally in character for him to me.

Quote:

---

I added a screenshot from the JP version only to provide context, that this is not just a "translation of what was", but an inappropriate thing added for some unknown reason.

---

Which is like half of the ENG translation's humour, lol?

Known womanizer Emmanellain on the verge of making a sexual innuendo? Well I never

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Nah, it's not the same at all. It's a lead off into a crass joke abut a character's hair colour, the minion description was something completely different. I don't think the fact that she later died really has anything to do with it, either - if he'd said it after she died, I could understand, but a random NPC aside earlier on in the game isn't really a big deal. I don't get how it's any more a "mockery" than any other alternative translation. Like I said, it seems totally in character for him to me.

---

One of the biggest localization problem — such things are normal for native speakers. English isn't my native language, so well, for me this joke is very gross and out of character because I still can't understand why everyone thinks that Emmanellain is such a womanizer in sexual way even when I played HW not one time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Which is like half of the ENG translation's humour, lol?

---

And is it make such humor a good one? It just means that this half of humor is not funny gags from localizators and this case is one of many ones. Still, is commonly poor quality of the EN localization can be an arguement and a reason to stop paying attention to the really strange moments?

I consider myself pretty sensitive to jokes in poor taste, but this didn't strike me as offensive when I saw it in game. Considering how close it is to her death, I can understand you feeling like it approaches that line, but I don't think it crosses it.

I thought it was a fun bit of character, giving Emmanellain some silliness and emotional dynamism instead of just passively imparting information to the player. And considering that kind of flavor can be pretty lacking in the game's optional dialogue, it would be a shame to remove any of it.

I don't know. I feel it is in line with a young 20 something fop/dandy who constantly tries to flirt with Laniatte and is a court gossiper. Now is he as skillful or as open about flirting with or trying to do so as Jannequinard? Heck no. If this musing had been coming from Artoirel then yeah it would definitely be out of character for them as out of all three Fortemps boys he is the most straight laced and unflirtatious. He also doesn't wonder why the openly known bastard son who is his half brother has a silvery blue mane of hair as that's the dead give away Edmond had been unfaithful. Since all of house Fortemps seems to continually have only black haired offspring. Unlike the other three houses seem to have a little bit of mingling of house lines. Haillenarte being mostly blonde with a few redheads or strawberry blondes in Laniatte and Francel (who for whatever goes by the last part of his forename). Dzemal being mostly white/silver or platinum with a few pink haired via Jandelaine and Guillefresne. Yes everyone's favorite stylists are cousins to Archombadin and Grinnaux. With Durendaire being mostly redheads and an occasional blonde considering the current heir who isn't a Limsan pirate captain is a icy blonde.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aderyn_Seren

One of the biggest localization problem — such things are normal for native speakers. English isn't my native language, so well, for me this joke is very gross and out of character because I still can't understand why everyone thinks that Emmanellain is such a womanizer in sexual way even when I played HW not one time.

---

Any given translation is always going to be aimed at its native-speaking audience and their sensibilities, so I don't really know what to tell you. You can either filter it out and write it off as part of their crude humour, or try a different version. I think French is supposed to be the closest to Japanese, while German typically aligns more closely with the English (in my experience, anyway. I don't know if it's strictly universal.) There are a lot of nuances about Emmanellain being something of a ne'er-do-well, if it doesn't reach you, that might be a you thing.

Quote:

---

And is it make such humor a good one? It just means that this half of humor is not funny gags from localizators and this case is one of many ones. Still, is commonly poor quality of the EN localization can be an arguement and a reason to stop paying attention to the really strange moments?

---

Well, the game used to receive a lot of positive reactions about its use of puns, jokes and various innuendoes, so it seemed to land with its target audience. If anything, complaints have only increased with the lighter tone it's taken these days. And you might not think it's funny or particularly good and find it "strange", but going back to my original post, I think that's a matter of personal opinion than necessarily an error on the localisation team's part.

Though it is feasible Emmanellain is being too humble here, this was one of the few memorable NPC moments in the entire game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aderyn_Seren

And this isn't just the localizers adding a line to background NPCs, like replacing lines for some NPCs in Kugane, but the words of one important MSQ character about another MSQ character. Even if this line is skippable, it is still there, and this isn't a hint, this is an absolutely direct question, and is it ok to add while next time WoL meets Ysayle is her death?

---

it is the localizers editorializing, just like replacing NPC lines in Kugane (which makes me genuinely upset). It's literally them adding 'flavor' that wasn't there in the original script. If it were all consistent between languages, I'd be defending it because it would otherwise add character. But I'm not one to put my own tastes above the principle of content consistency and honoring the actual script. I'm a firm supporter of translation over localization for a variety of reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aderyn_Seren

This isn't censorship, as with Haurchefant (to whom I have no reservations in the JP version and whose character change also upsets me), whose hints were much more ambiguous, and how can these words be equivalent censorship if JP Haurchefant was changed by the localizers themselves, when OP question concerns the fact that the localizers added words to their translation that are absent in the Japanese version. But one thing is true: poking a finger at genitals and laughing is quite suitable for 13-year-olds, that's why it's not a question of age rate, and it's very sad for me that the game has so many jokes like this one.

---

Removing these lines because they're too explicit to be appropriate is the very definition of censorship.
I was claiming that removing the lines because they're offensive or perceived as inappropriate would be no different than how they censored a central character during the localization process because the localizers were afraid of negative backlash. Like, hypothetically, if the EN line where the character actually present in the JP script as a crass gag, they would demand that it be removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

My issue isn't the perverted humor. My issue is more that this is wildly out of character for Emmanellain. There are some sailor/pirate NPCs in ARR who talk WAY more crudely, but you'd expect it from them. Here, it makes very little sense.

---

On its own, it's really just a gag. He's already fawning over her. Him catching himself drooling over the color of her pubic hair in front of Honoroit was just a bonus.

Like I said, I support changing it because it's not in-line with the JP version (which seems to be less offensive overall than the revisions made by the EN loc team. give us a translated patch! Not everyone who speaks English is privy to, or wants, the revisions made to appeal to EN speakers!)

I disagree.
Simply put, we should go lewder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Any given translation is always going to be aimed at its native-speaking audience and their sensibilities, so I don't really know what to tell you. You can either filter it out and write it off as part of their crude humour, or try a different version. I think French is supposed to be the closest to Japanese, while German typically aligns more closely with the English (in my experience, anyway. I don't know if it's strictly universal.) There are a lot of nuances about Emmanellain being something of a ne'er-do-well, if it doesn't reach you, that might be a you thing.



Well, the game used to receive a lot of positive reactions about its use of puns, jokes and various innuendoes, so it seemed to land with its target audience. If anything, complaints have only increased with the lighter tone it's taken these days. And you might not think it's funny or particularly good and find it "strange", but going back to my original post, I think that's a matter of personal opinion than necessarily an error on the localisation team's part.

---

I don't agree that if native speakers like any low-quality localization with unnecessary puns I need to play another version instead of complaining about poor quality of translation (and not only in FFXIV btw) and problem not even in differences with JP version but the fact that such "jokes" are tasteless and always out of place, and it's pretty sad that translations as a result make situation when players play almost different games with another characters due to unnecessary changes of their nature to make them more cliche from western media. You like it, okay, but it's not matter of different tastes for me.