Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

Which abilities do you think are used too little in the current state of the game to justify keeping them around?

Interrupts and Esunas should have a reason to exist, so I would like to see these kind of mechanics more in savage

Uh the entire healer role could be trimmed in reality then. (No I don't actually want that, but healers need to feel like a actual impactful role, tanks also to a degree)

But for real I don't think things need to be trimmed I think the entire system needs to be reworked especially for tanks & Healers. I don't think EW's design (which is just shb but more simple) really would fit in a new expansion, Most classes I'd be clueless to what they can even add that feels unique or cool anymore. You could take out some ogcd's or useless abilities that aren't important to the class, a good example is Paladin, you got goring blade which is just a 60s burst button, when you literally have your holy magic buttons for burst, theirs no reason for current goring blade, Shield Bash is currently just a skill that exists, But would I want these skills removed? Not really I'd want these skills to be useful and have more impact to their kit, but things like merging holy spirit/circle into a cleave attack or Holy sheltron/intervention makes more sense then just removing skills that could be better.

At the end of the day I don't really think anything needs to be outright trimmed, I think removing stuff is fine at times but theirs usually nothing to replace that skill which is the issue that generally pops up, it makes legacy content feel worse when you're playing half a class, a lot of the time you get something removed/reworked into a skill that just is there for the sake of being there (goring blade again lol).

Crowd Control abilities on bosses for certain mechs would also be nice. Sleep and bind in savage mechs would be nice!

preferably none, we should be aiming to consolidate some abilities instead of removing them. I'm tired of seeing skills get deleted and then be replaced with nothing at all.

Undraw
/10char

Game's already kinda bare bones so I wouldn't remove anything. Instead I wanna give more meaning to what we already have. There're some abilities that just get used to be used, but they don't feed into a gameplay mechanic or anything. You just sorta tap them every minute or every 30/45s or whatever for the potency. For example, you know how bard's empyreal arrow gives you a free proc on your songs? It'd be cool if more of those "USE THIS WHEN IT'S UP" abilities did stuff like that. That same job, bard, has an ability called sidewinder that just gets used to be used. And it has 2 dots that you just apply with a single skill and those dots don't even affect your songs anymore. Stuff like that feels so limp and forgettable. I'm not saying there shouldn't be fluff or that everything has to have a tightly controlled purpose, but the skills that don't feed into anything at all just feel aimless. Purposeless.

Also whoever thought removing the card mechanic from AST's main party buff and putting it towards a self buff that makes the opener feel giga-scuffed and also removing lord/lady of crowns as buffs again and turning them into a feckless heal and a feckless damage spell and also removing noct/diurnal sect should please please please never touch ast again. Whoever redesigned AST for EW completely missed what I enjoyed about playing AST, which was supporting my team, having 2 different gameplay styles (regens and shields), and having a semi-luck based system that fed into my signature raidbuff. I hate these new changes. I tried to like it because AST used to be the only healer that felt engaging for me, and they completely ruined it. I hope they don't "trim" anymore. They've trimmed enough.

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

---

Mao agrees with Tasty Bunny.

I feel like phys-ranged role actions could be reevaluated. Like Foot Graze could be cut, and Leg Graze could be given a second charge. Maybe bring back, and rework Hawk's Eye, and make it so that it guarantees your next weaponskill crits or something. Head Graze is perfect, but give us more reasons to use it in high end duties please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

---

I disagree, Healing on tanks is perfectly fine, DPS also have healing abilities. I like that certain jobs that aren't healers can heal and have healer utility like rez, Such as Paladin, Gnb, Rdm, Smn, Dnc ect. Removing that to band aid fix healers wont do much, Healers will still be just as boring as they are without actual changes on healers.

I do think we can certainly reduce healing such as warrior's aoe sustain and shake ect. PLD's magic attack healing can also be removed, But in general I feel like removing healing from tanks just removes another thing from a role that already has had so much removed, Infact I want tanks to have a more importance in protecting the party, not less.

I think Esuna and interject/silence needs more usage in the game, otherwise they simply need to go back and update old content to no longer require it so they can remove it.

Removing positionals will remove the requirement for true north.

A couple of GCD healing moves on healers need to be trimmed and replaced with DPS moves with slight healing added to them.

We know AST and DRG are getting reworked to see adjustments with their button bloat.

If anything we need to see the combos become 1 button as an optional thing in the game.

On Monk, almost everything except dragon kick!

Remove Freecure.

Remove cheating

They can merge battle lit with dragon sight. since they are both used under 2mins.

Dramatically reduce the group healing/regeneration capabilities on TANK/DPS roles,
and remove Physick from the Summoner as it will always remain a big joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remiff

and remove Physick from the Summoner as it will always remain a big joke.

---

Rather than remove it, they should change it to scale to INT the same way Vercure does.

Generally I don't think they should trim out any skills, but take the more useless ones and actually fix them so they're less hotbar bloat and have some actual utility...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

Also whoever thought removing the card mechanic from AST's main party buff and putting it towards a self buff that makes the opener feel giga-scuffed and also removing lord/lady of crowns as buffs again and turning them into a feckless heal and a feckless damage spell and also removing noct/diurnal sect should please please please never touch ast again. Whoever redesigned AST for EW completely missed what I enjoyed about playing AST, which was supporting my team, having 2 different gameplay styles (regens and shields), and having a semi-luck based system that fed into my signature raidbuff. I hate these new changes. I tried to like it because AST used to be the only healer that felt engaging for me, and they completely ruined it. I hope they don't "trim" anymore. They've trimmed enough.

---

What they really need is to bring more interactivity back and make classes more unique rather than trim stuff out.

AST is pretty much entering a breaking point in job kit from how empty the toolkit feels relative to certain encounters. I'm glad they took a chance to try to address the AST concerns, but the attempt they tried didn't really address any of the issues. The amount of solo-play ability AST has is abysmal because a big portion of its DPS is all siphoned into party-play buffs and balancing that out with supposed 8 other members who do higher and optimal dps -- which may or may not always exist. Not to mention, the amount of support from solely DPS buffs doesn't need a convoluted system to do what it needs to do. Literally 6 cards can be simplified into 2 different cards and due to how lackluster Astrodyne itself works, it still doesn't do well to justify fishing for the remaining seals when the cards themselves is the core mechanic of AST's job gauge. What AST needs is a lot more than what healers are afforded. More than what the entire healer role is afforded, really.

The abysmal effect of Astrodyne could've been way more impactful if it was designed to support both party play and solo play so it plays more into the support-oriented style and simultaneously doesn't make AST actually the hardest job to clear solo duties with DPS-check enrage timer, but it became the biggest joke of all by being the weakest buff and having one of the ridiculously dense weave window to execute it in due to the need for lightspeed to make those windows doable. The amount you get out of the skill simply isn't enough to really justify its design in the current toolkit.

Condense some buttons please. After using Ley Lines it should immediately turn into Between the Lines for example. Group related abilities together like that and you'd save so much space.

Cure 1/Benefic 1/Physick should all turn into Cure 2/Benefic 2/Adloquium. This wouldn't just trim 1 ability for those healers(so you don't have to keep the lower level spells on a spare bar in case you get thrown into lower level content), but it would also keep sprouts and unfortunately long time players from falling into the trap of using them after level 30.

They will probably get rid of the stun.

On a personal level without thought for others, condense the ever living dodo out of anything that can be, and add more fun skills. I don't really see why I need to 1 2 3 if I could just pvp combo it instead. That's a personal thing though. I'm happy with 16 complicated / engaging buttons, heck I would probably be fine with 8 if they were really cool (pvp kits are fun, though in normal content they'd still need a little more). Some jobs have a lot of buttons that seem to take up space just to make the hotbar messy and your fingers do more splits (like why is leyline and leyline teleport separate?).

• Rampart (replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Arm's Length and Surecast (use your actual movement tools, instead of just hitting a "Pass on doing mechanics" button)
• True North (replace with F&C/WT being usable in either order, a passive with charges spent to guarantee positionals infrequently on Monk, etc.)
• Lucid Dreaming (replace the consequent 38ish% of MP per minute with just additional passive tick amounts)
• Tank Stances (replace with default increased tank Enmity, with further positional control and bonuses via who Provoked most recently)
• Shirk (it's almost purely bloat even now)
• Interject and Low Blow being separate keys. Consolidate into one skill that does both functions, and give it 2 charges, ~20s recast. And give us more to interrupt or stun on bosses.
• and maybe Reprisal (likewise replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Undraw (who even has it bound as is?)

More importantly, though, just let us actually macro things properly and without losing the ability to queue actions.

If we're not going to make competitive uses for combo keys out of order, give an option to make using a combo's keys out of order impossible (can set to only allow you to continue, only swap combos or continue the one you're already on, or can only reset, swap, or continue) so that those who enjoy their extra finger-dancing aren't at a disadvantage vs. those who'd rather spend just 1 button per decision ("do single-target combo"), instead of up to 7 buttons on that single decision.

Such would allow for pretty huge savings, and in a fully customizable way.

AST
Combine Draw and Play into a single button. Minor Arcana already does the same. Remove Undraw.

DRK
Merge Oblation 10% damage reduction into TBN at 82.
Rework Oblation into something more useful.
Rework Enhanced Unmend to be less of a meme.
Actully when you think about it, rework the whole DRK 81-90 kit.

Draw/Play into one button. Remove Undraw.

Ogi Namikiri And Ikishoten into one button.

Shoha 1 and Shoha 2 into one button.

Red Mage melee combo into one button (unless they give a different one that is single target)

Do replace Rampart on Warrior and Dark Knight and give them their old 20% back, with the same mit as Rampart. Different graphics for jobs hooray.

If they decide to consolidate all the combos, at least give more of them. Maybe three?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphiana

Which abilities do you think are used too little in the current state of the game to justify keeping them around?

---

remove buff combos like reapers death design, warriors storms eye ect, its very annoying reapplying this especially in aoe when mobs dont all fit in the ring, just add a flat 10% damage buff to all rprs damage, or add it as an effect of enshroud.. its stupid that you need to apply a debuff just to do your base jobs damage. i dont think managing these buffs makes the game harder just more annoying. all these stupid "buff" abiliities do is bloat out the hotbar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

---

Selfish tank healing is fine imo, the issue comes from abilities that allow tanks to heal other players. Especially with no conditions attached.
I think the problem abilities right now are Nascent,Shake,Intervention and Veil.

Clemency is probably fine.

Two and three, mostly. And I don't just mean use pvp combos, but actually remove them. Make the animations cycle as a trait when you get the "new" attack, and average the potency to take into account what would have been the added damage effects of the second and third hit. Also has the benefit of putting an end to the annoying breaking that happens if you use certain other GCDs in between out of opportunity or necessity. I would have liked this game's combat to be a lot more complex in line with XI, but between the speed of fights and the already very deeply slid-to-one-end nature of the mechanics I think we'd be better to rip the band-aid off.

In fact, you know what? Let's get to the top of the hill and then snap off the brake handle. Get rid of auto-attacks as well, and turn every 123 into the auto-attack.

Nothing for DRG
no changes

Nuclear take remove positionals. I have never liked them. I thought they were stupid in 2.0, and they have been slowly removing them for years. Just rip the bandaid off. Casual players don't even do them anymore. I'm like the one moron in the roulette doing them.

All the cure 1 type healing spells need to be combined into upgrades. At level 90, they're dead spells, and that is bad game design.

Honestly, ranged attacks need to be taken off of the GCD. Provoke as an example is a better pulling tool than Shield Lob because it doesn't sit on the GCD.

Those are honestly it for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Selfish tank healing is fine imo, the issue comes from abilities that allow tanks to heal other players. Especially with no conditions attached.
I think the problem abilities right now are Nascent,Shake,Intervention and Veil.

Clemency is probably fine.

---

I'd Argue Intervention is fine If Aurora and Hoc are fine, I don't see a issue in single target healing abilities here. I'd argue I much rather not want magic attack healing, it doesn't really feel like you can control it and it's not as fun as giving a regen/mit to a party member.

DV/Shake? Shake is certainly more of a Issue here, the fact it heals, regen and shields is really odd, I think honestly I like the AOE healing aspect of these abilities it's very limited and the barrier aspect is good, I'd certainly nerf Shake's healing, I'd even be fine with DV being nerfed somehow, but I like that PLD's can actually provide aoe support to allies, It fits the job. If we wanted to remove aoe healing then the arguement shouldn't just be about tanks as a lot of DPS also provide AOE healing.

I think tank healing isn't actually the issue, Sure warrior/pld can have some reductions in healing, but even if you have a DRK you're still barely required to even heal, The healing issue isn't just because some times have tanks provide limited group/target healing it's because healer design just doesn't outright work currently.

It feels like people are just pointing at Tanks being the issue on why healer is boring, I mean theirs a certain degree to it like Warriors BW/Flash being super boring in AOE, But I think the actual issue doesn't stem from tank problems it's actually just because healer design isn't really great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

• Rampart (replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Arm's Length and Surecast (use your actual movement tools, instead of just hitting a "Pass on doing mechanics" button)
• True North (replace with F&C/WT being usable in either order, a passive with charges spent to guarantee positionals infrequently on Monk, etc.)
• Lucid Dreaming (replace the consequent 38ish% of MP per minute with just additional passive tick amounts)
• Tank Stances (replace with default increased tank Enmity, with further positional control and bonuses via who Provoked most recently)
• Shirk (it's almost purely bloat even now)
• Interject and Low Blow being separate keys. Consolidate into one skill that does both functions, and give it 2 charges, ~20s recast. And give us more to interrupt or stun on bosses.
• and maybe Reprisal (likewise replace with more control and frequency on job-specific mitigation actions)
• Undraw (who even has it bound as is?)

More importantly, though, just let us actually macro things properly and without losing the ability to queue actions.

If we're not going to make competitive uses for combo keys out of order, give an option to make using a combo's keys out of order impossible (can set to only allow you to continue, only swap combos or continue the one you're already on, or can only reset, swap, or continue) so that those who enjoy their extra finger-dancing aren't at a disadvantage vs. those who'd rather spend just 1 button per decision ("do single-target combo"), instead of up to 7 buttons on that single decision.

Such would allow for pretty huge savings, and in a fully customizable way.

---

I think Physick on SMN should be added to the list of useless skills :3

I feel cool hitting "pass" on movement skills, since you see most people just go flying and you're like 'nah man, I'm good thanks for the suggestion though'. Yet... I have seen a few mechanics where pressing 'pass' actually causes you more problems because you are supposed to be moved lol. I can see that being quite problematic for both the player and the designer of content.

Not quite the topic of the thread, but strongly imo, I would like to see all role skills become personalized to the job that is using them. Dark Knight losing Shadowskin for Rampart, Reprisal, Low Blow, Paladin having both Shield Bash and Low Blow? Etc.. Return Leeches to SCH, leave Esuna to White Mage, etc. Adding variation (even if minor) where possible. Maybe Leeches for example has a short Warden Paeon effect (where if it doesn't remove something it'll wait a few seconds before officially saying it did nothing), or heals a bit if it removes a debuff.

Back when we had 'options' and it was still a bit of an obvious vestige of the FF tactics / FFXI space we came from, it was fine, but at this point I feel that role skills are there just to damage the individuality and theme of each job. Yes all healers will need a debuff removing skill, but it does't need to have the same name or do EXACTLY the same thing (even if some skills, like esuna, will need a stronger similarity than others- like sleep on the magic jobs could have much better variation). At this point it just seems like a way for them to cut costs, and 'feels' like it too- dollar saver skills, get em while they're cheap (sort of vibe). So I would like to see role actions just go entirely, and the jobs unlock those skills with unique characteristics to themselves (even if some skills are going to be more obvious like an Esuna).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Healing abilities on tanks. We have healers to do that.

---

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardeth

Nuclear take remove positionals. I have never liked them. I thought they were stupid in 2.0, and they have been slowly removing them for years. Just rip the bandaid off. Casual players don't even do them anymore. I'm like the one moron in the roulette doing them.

---

Positionals as an idea are decent, but in practice they mostly just end up punishing you when you can't freely get behind or on the side of a boss due to mechanics and/or aoes.

As a BLM, I ask that we throw Scathe where it belongs, in the trash. I have NEVER had this on my hotbar and I know several other BLM mains who also never use this. As an AST? Undraw. Just, seriously, throw Undraw away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnRam

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

---

Yeeeeaaaaaaah...I remember going through an era where healers had a lot of whether the run goes smooth or not put on them. Both as a healer and a tank. Which created a ton of pressure for healers. This era also gave some of them massive egos and made them unironically say things like "The tank has no say in what their comfort levels are. That's for me to decide." This is an era, I would rather not return to. At least with current design, if I'm playing WAR or PLD? If I die? That's on me. And I will own that. But gutting everyone's self sustain is just going to put way too much pressure on healers and make the role more intimidating to some. Plus...what about solo duties?

Gut them.

Gut them all.

Every last one of them.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...69a219fa49307&

Ranged needs adjustment. They either need to buff it or nerf the goddamn bosses with giant hitboxes. I honestly prefer the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarRosie

As a BLM, I ask that we throw Scathe where it belongs, in the trash. I have NEVER had this on my hotbar and I know several other BLM mains who also never use this. As an AST? Undraw. Just, seriously, throw Undraw away.



Yeeeeaaaaaaah...I remember going through an era where healers had a lot of whether the run goes smooth or not put on them. Both as a healer and a tank. Which created a ton of pressure for healers. This era also gave some of them massive egos and made them unironically say things like "The tank has no say in what their comfort levels are. That's for me to decide." This is an era, I would rather not return to. At least with current design, if I'm playing WAR or PLD? If I die? That's on me. And I will own that. But gutting everyone's self sustain is just going to put way too much pressure on healers and make the role more intimidating to some. Plus...what about solo duties?

---

NOPES! No throw away Scathe! Is very much needed spell of last resort when in huge hunts trains and has mere second or two to tag critter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnRam

Let puts all the responsibility of an entire role in one player, so if that player isn't good or doesn't have enough gear = impossible to clear or kill boss.

No thanks, Tanks are fine its just how the game its designed.

---

You can have tank healing and healer healing work in synergy, If the Healing requirements demanded more healing and ogcd heals were trimmed in a world where healers had to actively GCD heal, Tanks using defensives/small healing abilities would actually be more useful instead of just replacing the healer role. Personally I like how tanks can contribute team healing, I don't think healers or tanks should be fully independent from one another but at the same time I'm fine with a tank carrying a healer or a healer carrying a tank ect. (In normal content)

I don't get why people want to take healing from tanks, it's really not going to fix the healer role, It feels like healers and tanks are just fighting at what little they have, I honestly just see removing utility from tanks as a lose/lose because its not going to make healer more fun, Instead of considering if the issue isn't actually tanks, but it's how healing works in the game. If there was more agency in how healing felt both roles could actually benefit as "team supports".

If tanks shouldn't heal? should healers mitigate? Should tanks not have Dps rotations? Should Dps not be able to heal too? I think it's fine for certain roles to lean into another role a bit, it just shouldn't entirely replace the other role, I get that hard fights can be done without healer, but again that seems to me to be a issue with the healing requirements personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Should tanks not have Dps rotations?

---

Yeah if healers can't, tanks shouldn't either