When are we gonna remove the DRK+DRG meta in FL?

SMN and WHM were ridiculous and got nerfed after one patch but DRK and DRG stayed as the meta for more than half a year. Other jobs are a joke.

Reduce Salted Earth area effect to the actual circle and add a 50% fall-off to Sky Shatter on 2nd+ targets.
Either this or DRK and DRG need their dmg mitigation removed as they're meta.

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Originally Posted by TakumiHarada

They nerfed SMN and WHM after one patch but DRK and DRG stayed as the meta for more than half a year. Other jobs are a joke.

Reduce Salted Earth area effect to the actual circle and add a 50% fall-off to Sky Shatter on 2nd+ targets.
Either this or DRK and DRG need their dmg mitigation removed as they're meta.

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rather then saying that... they should just give back fetterward

Never .

The solution to salted earth is to fix the slow server ticks and funky animations that decide to pull you from 10x further away than the spell is supposed to.

Dragoon shatter isn't much of an issue imo. They already reduced the AoE shatter potency, if they're coordinating LB's they deserve whatever kills they score.

Skill issue, kid

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Originally Posted by Archeron

The solution to salted earth is to fix the slow server ticks and funky animations that decide to pull you from 10x further away than the spell is supposed to.

Dragoon shatter isn't much of an issue imo. They already reduced the AoE shatter potency, if they're coordinating LB's they deserve whatever kills they score.

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Dragoon lb is rediculous, I get way more kills and way faster bh on dragoon than any other job because of how busted it is right now due to it getting buffed unnecessarily several times.

It's the one job that never should have been touched at all since start of this expansion for pvp as it was fine as it was at first, now it's one of the least skilled, low risk and highest rewarding job there is.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

The solution to salted earth is to fix the slow server ticks and funky animations that decide to pull you from 10x further away than the spell is supposed to.

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This.

There's something very weird going on with Salted Earth, it can randomly pull you further than it's supposed to because of wonky snapshotting, even just running away when you see the DRK coming may not even stop them from pulling you in anyway.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

The solution to salted earth is to fix the slow server ticks and funky animations that decide to pull you from 10x further away than the spell is supposed to.

Dragoon shatter isn't much of an issue imo. They already reduced the AoE shatter potency, if they're coordinating LB's they deserve whatever kills they score.

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DRK and DRG alone aren't exactly an issue, there is not much you can do when 2 o 3 people coordinates their LBs or skills to combo your raid.

If you want to fix DRK/DRG Meta just rework the DRK limit break because they can dive 1vs60 and don't give a fuck because their Limit break its completely/utterly OP . 10 seconds of invulnerability its just too much there is no counterplay to it

It seems that no matter what happens, someone is always going to take advantage of the design. It really shows that pvp is designed for CC and not FL, where you can have a premade of 4 Summoners drop their Bahamuts on the exact same spot. Or 3 DRKs pulling you hither and yon while DRGs drop on you from above. Perhaps the best way to fix the issue short term is to do away with 72 player battles and go with 24.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

DRK and DRG alone aren't exactly an issue, there is not much you can do when 2 o 3 people coordinates their LBs or skills to combo your raid.

If you want to fix DRK/DRG Meta just rework the DRK limit break because they can dive 1vs60 and don't give a fuck because their Limit break its completely/utterly OP . 10 seconds of invulnerability its just too much there is no counterplay to it

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thats not entirely true, there IS a counter play but.... you wont like it.

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Originally Posted by DiznypKC

It seems that no matter what happens, someone is always going to take advantage of the design. It really shows that pvp is designed for CC and not FL, where you can have a premade of 4 Summoners drop their Bahamuts on the exact same spot. Or 3 DRKs pulling you hither and yon while DRGs drop on you from above. Perhaps the best way to fix the issue short term is to do away with 72 player battles and go with 24.

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It really doesn't matter what they do. Larger scale pvp cannot be balanced. Even "weaker" jobs can be deadly when you stack them. This applies to any game that is class based pvp. People just need to accept that and understand that large scale pvp is just a chaotic zerg.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

It really doesn't matter what they do. Larger scale pvp cannot be balanced. Even "weaker" jobs can be deadly when you stack them. This applies to any game that is class based pvp. People just need to accept that and understand that large scale pvp is just a chaotic zerg.

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It's more difficult to balance, but it's not impossible. At least, it can be balanced a whole lot better than it currently is.

The most glaring issue right now is the complete lack of AoE damage drop off. This is the main source of FL imbalance currently, that AoE attacks can do full damage to as many targets as they can hit. This gives certain jobs as massive advantage in Front Lines over others.

The simple solution, which has been done in other games, is to limit how many targets an AOE can hit at once, or to cap the maximum amount of AoE damage that can be done by. And they could do this without it even impacting CC, just make it so AOEs do full damage up to 5 targets at once, any more than that and there's damage drop off.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

It's more difficult to balance, but it's not impossible. At least, it can be balanced a whole lot better than it currently is.

The most glaring issue right now is the complete lack of AoE damage drop off. This is the main source of FL imbalance currently, that AoE attacks can do full damage to as many targets as they can hit. This gives certain jobs as massive advantage in Front Lines over others.

The simple solution, which has been done in other games, is to limit how many targets an AOE can hit at once, or to cap the maximum amount of AoE damage that can be done by. And they could do this without it even impacting CC, just make it so AOEs do full damage up to 5 targets at once, any more than that and there's damage drop off.

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Melee have a a pretty large damage reduction percentage by default in FL. If you're getting smashed by AoE as a ranged that is your fault. Adding in damage falloff solves nothing and would likely cause more problems in a already zerg heavy mode.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Melee have a a pretty large damage reduction percentage by default in FL.

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Yes, I know. I mostly play as melee in Front Lines. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

If you're getting smashed by AoE as a ranged that is your fault.

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Except for all of the specifically created choke points intentionally placed around objectives that force players to have to bunch together.

This is literally the top of the ramp of Mid in Onsal, 3 identical choke points that force entire teams into those those spots. Guess who wins? It's usually the team/s that have a DRK+DRG combo.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Adding in damage falloff solves nothing and would likely cause more problems in a already zerg heavy mode.

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It absolutely would solve the DRK+DRG combo from causing entire party if not alliance wipes. Or SMN Bahamut spam that was the cheese play of choice originally.

And I say this having been the DRK or DRG in the above scenario on several occasions. It's not balanced, at all, and it deserves some measure of being tuned back. AOE damage is far too rampant in FL and needs to be scaled back by some degree. Or alternatively, jobs that are more single target damaged focused need a damage boost to compensate, but that would arguably cause far more balancing issues.

Why people thinks this need a fix when it is ranges on your team wasted all their critical CC for their own personal dips?

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

DRK and DRG alone aren't exactly an issue, there is not much you can do when 2 o 3 people coordinates their LBs or skills to combo your raid.

If you want to fix DRK/DRG Meta just rework the DRK limit break because they can dive 1vs60 and don't give a fuck because their Limit break its completely/utterly OP . 10 seconds of invulnerability its just too much there is no counterplay to it

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There is a counterplay to DRK LB. They still take fall damage, obviously not applicable in every scenario but you can definetely punish Dark knights in select locations.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

thats not entirely true, there IS a counter play but.... you wont like it.

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Because spending CC in a obvious invulnerable target its a good trade.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Because spending CC in a obvious invulnerable target its a good trade.

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Nope, just knock them off a cliff.
PLD and DRK still die from gravity even when invuln.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Nope, just knock them off a cliff.
PLD and DRK still die from gravity even when invuln.

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Oh yes, just let me pull out my POCKET CLIFF I bring with me everywhere in case I happen to run into a drk.

SE just needs to cap the salted earth at 5 targets, so it is not affected in 5v5 yet not broken in frontline.
ANet did that in gw2 to balance their 5v5 and massive scale pvp.

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

SE just needs to cap the salted earth at 5 targets, so it is not affected in 5v5 yet not broken in frontline.
ANet did that in gw2 to balance their 5v5 and massive scale pvp.

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Ideally all AOEs should be capped at 5, not just salted earth.

Arguably the pull effect of Salted Earth should just be changed to a stun as well. A huge part of the issue of the ability, and what makes it work ridiculous well with DRG, is the pull effect.

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Originally Posted by Zush

Oh yes, just let me pull out my POCKET CLIFF I bring with me everywhere in case I happen to run into a drk.

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Yall had one then you complained about it. at this point imma just call it a skill issue and move on.

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Originally Posted by Zush

Oh yes, just let me pull out my POCKET CLIFF I bring with me everywhere in case I happen to run into a drk.

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Then just... ignore them? Go attack other non invuln targets. You guys wanted a counterplay to invuln targets and now that you have one you're complaining about it. It's not like they're even that dangerous once they've popped their LB off and clearly haven't wiped your alliance.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

The solution to salted earth is to fix the slow server ticks and funky animations that decide to pull you from 10x further away than the spell is supposed to.

Dragoon shatter isn't much of an issue imo. They already reduced the AoE shatter potency, if they're coordinating LB's they deserve whatever kills they score.

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I agree that coordination should be rewarded. But only DRK/DRG being the meta has nothing related to "coordination".
Other jobs, say PLD/BRD, coordinating doesn't have the same effect as DRK/DRG coordinating. The ceiling is the problem.
In FL these two jobs are THE solution when that alliance coordinates well.

I'm not complaining about coordination. I'm complaining about only DRK/DRG having a much higher ceiling/potential than the other jobs in FL.

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Originally Posted by TakumiHarada

I agree that coordination should be rewarded. But only DRK/DRG being the meta has nothing related to "coordination".
Other jobs, say PLD/BRD, coordinating doesn't have the same effect as DRK/DRG coordinating. The ceiling is the problem.
In FL these two jobs are THE solution when that alliance coordinates well.

I'm not complaining about coordination. I'm complaining about only DRK/DRG having a much higher ceiling/potential than the other jobs in FL.

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It takes a lot of incompetence to allow a DRK/DRG LB to go off, especially in a way where it wipes your team.

1. Nobody applies CC to the DRK who is charging your lines.
2. DRG LB's, and nobody guards, or backs away in response.

Every class doesn't need to be made to compete with DRK/DRG. They have their niches. Theres 24 people on your team, and it takes one of them applying CC to either the DRK, or DRG, and for your team to not spread out to wipe to this "meta".

We need to push for fixes to the server tick, (which likely are never coming.) if we want PvP to play, and feel better than it is.

PLD also does have major coordination power, just nobody complains about paladins or their defensive AOE until they have 10 seconds of invuln and they're being attacked by an entire team at once.

Much rather an organized team of DRK+DRGs get a big bomb using coordination than a stack of scholars making the entire match a slog from start to finish,all with no coordination required.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

It takes a lot of incompetence to allow a DRK/DRG LB to go off, especially in a way where it wipes your team.

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No it doesn't, I got top kills again last night as dragoon because skillfull job is skillfull.

You don't even need a dark knight to do so neither, you can literally run around the enemy team and lb them from behind, they'll al think it's a friendly dragoon and boom, mass wipe.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

No it doesn't, I got top kills again last night as dragoon because skillfull job is skillfull.

You don't even need a dark knight to do so neither, you can literally run around the enemy team and lb them from behind, they'll al think it's a friendly dragoon and boom, mass wipe.

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"Skillfull" as in you place a blue circle overtop of enemies who aren't paying attention who are clustered together? If thats skill then scholars are also skilled for placing mass dots on people. Don't be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

"Skillfull" as in you place a blue circle overtop of enemies who aren't paying attention who are clustered together? If thats skill then scholars are also skilled for placing mass dots on people. Don't be ridiculous.

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Can confirm, I get more kills on dragoon than anything else and nothing about it is skillful.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

"Skillfull" as in you place a blue circle overtop of enemies who aren't paying attention who are clustered together? If thats skill then scholars are also skilled for placing mass dots on people. Don't be ridiculous.

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Do I really gotta put a /s on such a blatantly obvious sarcastic statement next time so some people actually get it? Just .... wow.

It looks meta because most players are abysmally bad in all possible ways. I barely die to this as a summoner, and if they can get me, then credits to them.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

Do I really gotta put a /s on such a blatantly obvious sarcastic statement next time so some people actually get it? Just .... wow.

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The only thing blatantly obvious here is your lack of humour. I'd suggest for you to look in the mirror if you wanted a joke.

Making a sarcastic comment on a forum filled with people who standby all sorts of horrible suggestions and recommendations only makes you another clown in the circus.