Should bosses get something along the lines of a mini enrage, or super TB?

This would only come into play when there are just one or both tanks left alive, and the boss just does away with them after 10-12 seconds?

I'm not sure if anyone else feels my frustration with tanks holding players hostage because the boss can't kill them if they know the mechanics, and they also can't kill the boss because it has too much HP remaining. This came to mind with the last Rubicante EX party I was in, and would have loved it if he just kept spamming Dualfire until naught but ash remained.

Thoughts?

As a tank main, no, we should be able to solo the bosses that we can solo. If the rest of the party die, they can lay on the ground and learn the mechanics from a confident tank that spends 10 minutes doing them flawlessly. Then they will know next time.

I am 100% in favor of casual dungeon bosses having Enrages, make it completely and utterly lenient, if the party is doing like, 1% grey parse-level damage, they still wouldn't even see the hints of an Enrage, but I had a few situations where the Tank will absolutely BM the party over mistakes, like the Healer dying early and the DPS being unable to keep up with unavoidable damage as a result even if they play perfect, and then brag about how they are "useless" after they spent 20 minutes on a war of attrition just being a goddamn cockroach about it and wasting everyone's time.

In general I am in favor of features that reduce the Tank's ability to BM the party, which currently is too high due to the disparity in difficulty between casual dungeons and Savage/Ultimates and the need for Tanks to keep up with the latter while also participating in the former, don't get me wrong, most Tanks are really nice and my experience is that Tanks tend to try harder than DPS players, but I still dislike being at mercy of the Tank being willing to be nice, even if I can report them after.

Some kind of enrage timer might help push people to actually do things instead of sandbagging and dragging the fight on forever. Some fights do have them, but not many.

That said, I prefer the "soft enrage" style over the "hard enrage". In a hard enrage, the boss just suddenly gets tired of fighting and one-shots everyone (see Alexander Prime's second cast of Divine Judgement; the first, scripted one requires a tank LB3, but the second just kills you even through it). In a soft enrage, the fight's momentum eventually makes it impossible to continue, usually through a stacking damage buff (Cerberus if not chained in time), or environmental factors (Shinryu breaking parts off the platform until you eventually just run out of room), or some similar effect. The latter feels like a natural progression of the fight, while the former feels like an ass pull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

As a tank main, no, we should be able to solo the bosses that we can solo. If the rest of the party die, they can lay on the ground and learn the mechanics from a confident tank that spends 10 minutes doing them flawlessly. Then they will know next time.

---

You can't solo it. You're spanking it with a wet noodle, and will eventually get taken out by the boss's hard enrage, by which you are just wasting everyone's time. Players learn better by doing than by watching. More if not all bosses in the game should have these soft enrages to wipe the floor with selfish, ego driven tanks.

I'm a tank main and have been saying this for years (though not entirely here, iirc)

It would actually make some incentive for people to actually learn and do their role instead of being able to get a verified chimp to squish a banana on the 1 key and still be able to clear the content. Me being able to solo bosses is great and all, but it does take a long time, which ultimately ends up being more of a waste of time rather than an impressive feat.

I think they should interchange between soft and hard enrages.

I want normal raids to have an enrage tbh. I don't want it to require amazing gameplay or anything to meet, just have a reasonable ~12 minute enrage for a fight that normally will take <10 minutes or something. Dungeons I honestly don't care. When I tank fights and the rest of the group dies I just kill myself because it's quicker to reattempt than to solo it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

You can't solo it. You're spanking it with a wet noodle, and will eventually get taken out by the boss's hard enrage, by which you are just wasting everyone's time. Players learn better by doing than by watching. More if not all bosses in the game should have these soft enrages to wipe the floor with selfish, ego driven tanks.

---

I didn't read the "ex" part but I have found it useful being able to solo large parts of extreme trials, because it allows me to show my party the mechanics without them being distracted by a rotation and other things.

I did this in this expansion in Barb ex and Endsinger ex, showing them mechanics several phases beyond where they were dying and how I executed the mechanics. It was useful for them to see in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amenara

I want normal raids to have an enrage tbh.

---

I discovered O1 has a 14 minute enrage. On the other hand, when I solo'd E12 I was able to go over 20 minutes without seeing an enrage. Shows how design changed at some point.

I mean some bosses already do, like the last two bosses of Amaurot(might be wrong about one of them).

I have mixed feelings on it though. On one hand it could force people to do better, or on the other it could really be frustrating.

We had a soft enrage once in AK (Ampador Keep). It was called the Demon Wall bees. Took too long, and those bees would spawn to destroy your group. I miss those bees so much. D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I mean some bosses already do, like the last two bosses of Amaurot(might be wrong about one of them).

---

Nothing a tank can't handle. I solo'd the last boss on DRK a bunch of times. All you have to do is know the mechanics, exactly when to mitigate and TBN, especially for the beam that you have no platform to hide from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I discovered O1 has a 14 minute enrage. On the other hand, when I solo'd E12 I was able to go over 20 minutes without seeing an enrage. Shows how design changed at some point.

---

Yeah I remember I was messing around in E12N on my warrior solo, was able to clear the DPS check and was like there is nothing stopping me from just beating this. I stopped because I didn't want to spend 45 minutes in that place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I didn't read the "ex" part but I have found it useful being able to solo large parts of extreme trials, because it allows me to show my party the mechanics without them being distracted by a rotation and other things.

I did this in this expansion in Barb ex and Endsinger ex, showing them mechanics several phases beyond where they were dying and how I executed the mechanics. It was useful for them to see in my opinion.

---

Players will still need to learn how to do the mechanics amidst distractions. It is a hands-on learning process, and trial and error is needed for that. They will learn faster by getting more attempts at the mechanics they are failing. You as a tank have the privilege of being able to fail mechanics without dying to them, and are not punished for failure like healers and DPS players are. There are also very likely players who are down who do know the mechanics, but at no fault of their own have died to unavoidable AoE damage due to lack of heals. You really should take that into consideration.

As for dungeons, I don't really care. However, if it is faster for you to kill yourself and let the whole party give it another go, that is likely the best choice. It's understandable and actually prudent if the boss has <5% to just go ahead and finish it off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I mean some bosses already do, like the last two bosses of Amaurot(might be wrong about one of them).

---

I speak from experience that Amaurot's last boss does not have an enrage, the safe spots will slowly crumble, but it is actually easy to mitigate through the blast anyway and recover from it, it just turns the big attack into unavoidable damage, because the way it's designed it's not meant to just kill you, but rather you continuously take damage the longer you stand in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Players will still need to learn how to do the mechanics amidst distractions. It is a hands-on learning process, and trial and error is needed for that. They will learn faster by getting more attempts at the mechanics they are failing.

---

Not necessarily. Seeing someone else do the mechanics first without distractions can help you to do them better yourself sooner than you otherwise would. That is why "Point of View" videos on youtube or streams are useful.

Quote:

---

You as a tank have the privilege of being able to fail mechanics without dying to them, and are not punished for failure like healers and DPS players are.

---

Yes, well you are not helping anything if you don't do the mechanics as correctly as is possible while solo because then nobody is really learning how they are supposed to be done.

Quote:

---

There are also very likely players who are down who do know the mechanics, but at no fault of their own have died to unavoidable AoE damage due to lack of heals. You really should take that into consideration.

---

It really depends on the context. If you are in a practice party and they don't seem to know the mechanics then it's useful. If they do know the mechanics or you have already demonstrated them once, then maybe you should just reset.

Hard disagree on this one. Tanks should be free to solo what they can. As boring as the role is, they need to be allowed to have something.

I think this should be a thing in EX or above. But equally, it would need to be based on the overall % of players alive relative to how many are in the party. E.g., so it doesn't necessarily shaft people who do solo runs of content.

In normal content, I would disagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Not necessarily. Seeing someone else do the mechanics first without distractions can help you to do them better yourself sooner than you otherwise would. That is why "Point of View" videos on youtube or streams are useful.

---

They are useful to make you aware of the mechanics, and help very little with performing them. If this is the case, people could watch a video guide and then come into a practice party and perform the mechanics flawlessly. This isn't the case at all. Often when I see tanks do this, they still fail mechanics. They just don't die to them. Some mechanics such as limit cut, bait AoEs, and partner stacks require players to be up for them to even be seen properly.

Quote:

---

Yes, well you are not helping anything if you don't do the mechanics as correctly as is possible while solo because then nobody is really learning how they are supposed to be done.

---

You're not making strong arguments why this should not be a thing, and spouting your opinion as if it is a fact. Practice party clear rates for EX and above would be exceptionally higher if this were true. I suggest perhaps playing a solo game if you want to play by yourself.

Quote:

---

It really depends on the context. If you are in a practice party and they don't seem to know the mechanics then it's useful. If they do know the mechanics or you have already demonstrated them once, then maybe you should just reset.

---

No. If players want a visual representation they can go watch a video guide, or use the duty recorder. People log into the game to play the game dude. Not watch you flex your tank privileges.

No real pro (other than the tank not holding the party hostage) but a few cons.

I've got a few friends with disabilities that I help get through MSQ. My being able to solo bosses as tank has helped us continue thru a couple of EW dungeons that would have been walls to their progress otherwise. Having the enrage could mean having to wait an entire expansion before we can unsync the dungeon and they can progress again.

It's probably rare that a tank holds a group hostage. If I'm with a random group and the rest of the party dies, I'll go ahead and wipe it unless the boss is down to 5% or so. If the party has wiped a few times and we end up about to wipe again, I will ask the rest of the party if they want me to solo it as they watch to learn the mechanics. It becomes their choice about whether we progress or not.

I know others would argue that such parties should just be disbanded but that also takes away the opportunity for willing players to help the others learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

They are useful to make you aware of the mechanics, and help very little with performing them. If this is the case, people could watch a video guide and then come into a practice party and perform the mechanics flawlessly.

---

That does happen sometimes, especially among people who watch streams, because watching someone wipe endlessly has a way of burning the mechanics into your own mind without having done them yourself. There are certain mechanics this doesn't help with if a component of the mechanic is not visually telegraphed well.

Quote:

---

Often when I see tanks do this, they still fail mechanics. They just don't die to them.

---

Yes, well, that's because most tanks aren't like me. I'm in the minority that wouldn't. So maybe those tanks that aren't like me should just reset it unless it's the party's first time seeing these mechanics.

Quote:

---

You're not making strong arguments why this should not be a thing

---

You're not making strong arguments for why it should be impossible to solo. There is a wall or an edge to jump off in most high-end content and the majority of the time they do reset it or get asked to. If there is a small minority that repeatedly keep going for 4 minutes after everyone wiped, then blacklist them maybe so you avoid their parties?

A better argument for making ex bosses not soloable for ages is that you couldn't do it so easily in Heavensward. Even in normal mode A11, a PLD could not clemency their way to survival for long against Cruise Chaser when it wiped everyone (and it did this regularly at the end, for anyone who wasn't there).

In order to achieve this, SE could increase the auto attacks and their damage output, but would this fit the game's current direction?

Quote:

---

Practice party clear rates for EX and above would be exceptionally higher if this were true.

---

No they wouldn't. I didn't say seeing someone do the mechanics was the only component of learning, I just said it helps contribute to it and speed it up a bit. Of course they need to actually practice it as well.

Quote:

---

If players want a visual representation they can go watch a video guide, or use the duty recorder.

---

There are parties where people didn't watch guides though. Watching a guide is not the same as watching someone actually do it in real time either. Guides do the slow-motion thing and spend 2 minutes explaining a mechanic that takes 5 seconds, which doesn't give you the sense of timing you require to learn it.

I've been in a few situations where I got stuck with a party that absolutely, unequivocally could not complete the content they queued for. They would die to avoidable boss mechanics like clockwork. In those situations, I was really only able to complete the duty because of being able to solo my way through. I would very much prefer not to get pigeonholed into a crippling overreliance on other players in inconsequential content.

If the group screws up on a boss once or twice, yeah, sure, wipe it up so they can participate. Assuming they learn from their mistakes, it's all kosher. But if they don't? Well, why should I be punished because one or two healers and some DPS feel compelled to stand in bad? Three strikes, as far as I'm concerned. After the third, they can lay there and watch while I do it myself.

I think enrages as we know them are kind of boring. The boss just winds up a mega-cast and then kills everyone. I wish easier content had soft enrages where, like... maybe the boss got a ton of damage up stacks or something, so each hit felt like a really painful tankbuster. And each partywide it sent out gave a vuln stack with it and hurt extra hard. And the mechanics would begin stacking and going off at random. Basically just make it harder to survive until the situation becomes untenable, but don't just kill everyone outright because that's boring af. Make the enrage timer so deep into the fight that any group that sees it deserves the L and if they can scrape a win from it anyway then so be it. For example, in the most recent dungeon's final boss... if he lives long enough, he just starts repeating 2 of his mechanics on an endless loop. It's really boring. What if instead of that, he gained an attack-up boost, did some clone-jutsu bullshit, and performed 2 mechanics simultaneously. So now the party has to dodge his zig zagging around the room and deal with him spawning orbs on top of the arena with a pushback at the end. And maybe, because it's a soft-enrage, there isn't always a safe spot in these instances. Like, maybe if you took this long to kill this thing, this is just the end that you deserve and there's really no way out. But if you can persevere and deal enough damage to scrape out a win, then it's yours.

If the party is dead, that is kind of their own fault for not respecting mechanics.

If a tank can solo the remaining HP bar of a boss when everyone else is dead, Let them.
They obviously know what they are doing and if you watch closely enough you might learn a thing or two.

If they wipe at like 3% or something, Have some friendly banter and laugh about it, Then move on with your life.


On the flip side:

Yes all dungeon bosses, especially towards the ShB/EW expansions, Should have enrages to teach people that playing like a 90yo blind man with no hands is not acceptable and you will not be able to move on until you actually put some effort into the game.

This just highlights the issue that tanks are broken, and bosses hits like wet noodles. Healers are just there because the game forces them along.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

If the party is dead, that is kind of their own fault for not respecting mechanics.

If a tank can solo the remaining HP bar of a boss when everyone else is dead, Let them.
They obviously know what they are doing and if you watch closely enough you might learn a thing or two.

If they wipe at like 3% or something, Have some friendly banter and laugh about it, Then move on with your life.


On the flip side:

Yes all dungeon bosses, especially towards the ShB/EW expansions, Should have enrages to teach people that playing like a 90yo blind man with no hands is not acceptable and you will not be able to move on until you actually put some effort into the game.

---

You must be an absolute joy to have in the group. Ragequit after the first wipe, do ye?

This isn't like holding up a departure because you're late to board. It's a game, and players don't make mistakes to spite and inconvenience the rest of the group. Getting knocked out is already their punishment for failing mechanics, and don't need an egocentric tank to kick them while their down. Again I will tell you to lose the elitist attitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gullis

This just highlights the issue that tanks are broken, and bosses hits like wet noodles. Healers are just there because the game forces them along.

---

I definitely agree that they shouldn't be able to ignore mechanics. They can't ignore all of them though, where even normal duties like Iconoclasm will still wipe them out if they don't do the color debuffs correctly. I can also understand a tank's frustration if their party can't stay on their feet even when mechanics are present that they have to do as well. I've played tank enough to know how this feels, which is why I have a lot of respect for the tanks that have heart, and will help explain the mechanics if their group is having trouble rather than have this attitude that says, "Watch me and see how it's done, scrubs."

No need to bash healers, bub. There are plenty of other threads for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gullis

This just highlights the issue that tanks are broken, and bosses hits like wet noodles. Healers are just there because the game forces them along.

---

Addendum: With the exception of DRK, who can't heal themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

which is why I have a lot of respect for the tanks that have heart, and will help explain the mechanics if their group is having trouble rather than have this attitude that says, "Watch me and see how it's done, scrubs."

---

You can mean "watch me" in a nice way, then explain what they saw to them and answer any questions. That's what I have done if I've done it in extreme trials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I've been in a few situations where I got stuck with a party that absolutely, unequivocally could not complete the content they queued for. They would die to avoidable boss mechanics like clockwork. In those situations, I was really only able to complete the duty because of being able to solo my way through. I would very much prefer not to get pigeonholed into a crippling overreliance on other players in inconsequential content.

If the group screws up on a boss once or twice, yeah, sure, wipe it up so they can participate. Assuming they learn from their mistakes, it's all kosher. But if they don't? Well, why should I be punished because one or two healers and some DPS feel compelled to stand in bad? Three strikes, as far as I'm concerned. After the third, they can lay there and watch while I do it myself.

---

I've had that happen a few times as a PLD/WAR. Usually I'll just kill myself as quickly as possible so they can join in but if there is like 30% left I'll usually ask of it can just solo it.

100% of the time so far they have been "Yeah sure I could go for a good show".

Personally, I'd rather see bosses (dungeon, raid, etc) do random mechanics (not scripted with pseudo-random mechanics). Get rid of the hard enrage. Make it a soft-enrage - like a damage buff that creeps up until the healers can't heal through it. They'd still have a pool of mechanics to pull from... but instead of being:

Mechanic 1 > Mechanic 2 > Mechanic 3 or 4 > Mechanic 5 > Unused Mechanic from 3 or 4 earlier > Mechanic 6

Just string any from the pool together:
1 > 6 > 4 > 3 > 1 > 5 > etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gullis

This just highlights the issue that tanks are broken, and bosses hits like wet noodles. Healers are just there because the game forces them along.

---

This was my thoughts. Tanks are just OP right now. So much so when I'm learning alliance raids I bring a tank as they essentially never die, as I've seen tanks hit 9 or 10 stacks and not die, while a DPS or Healer will die to a raid or groupwide with far less stacks. As far as simply not dying and not even to know mechanics, the tank still being alive isn't necessarily a testament to innate skill as I saw someone mention earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I am 100% in favor of casual dungeon bosses having Enrages, make it completely and utterly lenient, if the party is doing like, 1% grey parse-level damage, they still wouldn't even see the hints of an Enrage, but I had a few situations where the Tank will absolutely BM the party over mistakes, like the Healer dying early and the DPS being unable to keep up with unavoidable damage as a result even if they play perfect, and then brag about how they are "useless" after they spent 20 minutes on a war of attrition just being a goddamn cockroach about it and wasting everyone's time.

In general I am in favor of features that reduce the Tank's ability to BM the party, which currently is too high due to the disparity in difficulty between casual dungeons and Savage/Ultimates and the need for Tanks to keep up with the latter while also participating in the former, don't get me wrong, most Tanks are really nice and my experience is that Tanks tend to try harder than DPS players, but I still dislike being at mercy of the Tank being willing to be nice, even if I can report them after.

---

Sucks that happened,I never BM someone cuz they could be trying new role or took a break and got rusty, it's like this past weekend at 70% HP in my expert run Sunday my healer and DPS died (terrible with dungeon names but it's was the 2nd boss lady with a scythe that does soul nebula) I healed the other DPS and maintained myself enough that we eventually got kill, didn't have to say anything cept I needed a second to stretch after that fight. Only complaint was after the dungeon didn't get a single recommendation :(

Fun fact, Haukke Manor Hard Halicarnassus technically has an enrage (and I'm not talking about doing too much DPS). After ~6 minutes, she'll use Fatal Allure on a player with the least amount of HP, instantly KO them and then, depending on their HP% (more than likely 100%), wipe the party. Copperbell Mines Hard also had a couple of enrage bosses too, now that I think about it... Pharos Sirius 2.1 even had a few enrages too (don't think Siren had one, though. You just eventually get overwhelmed, especially if you don't Silence Lunatic Song).

Amdapor Keep back in the day also had a couple. Take too long on Demon Wall and you're forced to stand in the DoT puddle (and then crushed... I think). Anantaboga also required players to hide behind the statues, which would transform into an add. Take too long and you'll run out of statues (and since max HP back then was around 2-5k, it was a guaranteed wipe). Tonberry King also has two kinds of enrages: kill too many Tonberry's and Everyone's Grudge will do 1k x Tonberry killed to the tank. The other being if you let the big Stalker Tonberry's get too close (or you damage them), they'll wipe the party.

I think even the Flan had an enrage. Its slap attack did more damage depending on how many flan adds were still alive, I think (also DPS/Healers had to kite the boss to avoid that attack because even without the adds it did A LOT of damage. Had to use Fluid Aura or Stuns to keep it stationary)

Yes please I could fall asleep through dungeons at high level

Cue "Promises" playing on repeat

That one was both fun launch week and is still spicy. The enrage is slow enough that enough people alive can still pull off a last minute victory before all the tiles are gone. I think something like that might have a good balance. Though usually Doom with no one around to cleanse it does the work before the enrage can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

You can't solo it. You're spanking it with a wet noodle, and will eventually get taken out by the boss's hard enrage

---

While tanks have better DPS than you... as a DPS role.

I would never waste others time on purpose, but I have soloed many bossess when they were 10% or lower, because of why not. Or... I end up soloing O12S unsynced first time parties, becase they dont know mechs and I know I will kill it sooner, than they will learn and not die. Just dont die and use that time for learning. If the tank is a big dick, leave and find a new party. But I dont see a positive point in your suggestion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amenara

I want normal raids to have an enrage tbh. I don't want it to require amazing gameplay or anything to meet, just have a reasonable ~12 minute enrage for a fight that normally will take <10 minutes or something. Dungeons I honestly don't care. When I tank fights and the rest of the group dies I just kill myself because it's quicker to reattempt than to solo it.

---

Pls dont. With my experience, that would waste even more of my time. With no enrage, I can at least keep alive one healer/RDM/SMN, who will res the others. I had 15 minutes normal raids runs. That would not solve anything. And you can find some really bad people and not even make the 12 minutes enrage without nearly wipes. I have seen it all.

Talking about enrages in dungeons... First boss of Troya and last boss of current dungeon have basically enrage. You need to kill the boss before the bar fills. You dont even think about it in normal parties, but you cant solo it (I tried to solo dungeons, and the last one doable is Legacy one sadly).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

If the party is dead, that is kind of their own fault for not respecting mechanics..

---

Not necessarily. If the two healers die, dps can wipe from unavoidable damage even if they do everything perfectly. Happened several times.

The solution to this is to increase boss damage.

Boss autos should really be hitting as hard as most tankbusters hit. Their tankbusters should bring a properly geared tank below 25%. Auto attacks should come out faster too.

Make a fight so a tank can't solo it, and then you won't have tanks wasting everyone's time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

While tanks have better DPS than you... as a DPS role.

I would never waste others time on purpose, but I have soloed many bossess when they were 10% or lower, because of why not. Or... I end up soloing O12S unsynced first time parties, becase they dont know mechs and I know I will kill it sooner, than they will learn and not die. Just dont die and use that time for learning. If the tank is a big dick, leave and find a new party. But I dont see a positive point in your suggestion.

---

If the tank can wrap it up an a couple of minutes, I have no issue, but that's not what I'm talking about in even the slightest. Nor am I talking about unsynced scenarios. I'm talking about bosses having enough HP to where it will take the tank a significant amount of time to solo the boss, which can happen in NM trials and raids since the boss does not have an enrage, or the tank will eventually get taken out anyway by a boss's hard enrage in duties EX and up. This could apply to dungeon bosses as well if the boss takes too long to solo. The positive is not allowing tanks to hold the party hostage, which you have acknowledged in this post wastes the time of the other players.

Despite what you think is a good intention, it really doesn't do anyone any favors. Particularly if you feel like players should not be carried to a clear. You also have the option to leave if the group lacks the skill the complete the duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This was my thoughts. Tanks are just OP right now. So much so when I'm learning alliance raids I bring a tank as they essentially never die, as I've seen tanks hit 9 or 10 stacks and not die, while a DPS or Healer will die to a raid or groupwide with far less stacks. As far as simply not dying and not even to know mechanics, the tank still being alive isn't necessarily a testament to innate skill as I saw someone mention earlier.

---

People will always argue that the game is balanced around savages/ultimate. Content that barely anyone even does, lol.

The fact is that even if they scaled tanks down, healing and dps is still grossly overkill for all normal content. This tells me that the problem isn't the classes, it's the boss/trash design.