2.0: New Disciple of Magic or Spell Reform?

Which is going to be the first of the two?

One of the new pictures from 2.0 shows a Black Mage using some new lightning spells... Bothering to a point to know that 2.0 we'll probably still be spamming thunder spells.

Is this going to be changed?

Just because summoner was an example for a new Pet class doesn't mean it'll be the next Disciple of Magic class released. I go by Yoshi-P's example of how he views the results from the Viera in the race poll. Summoner might not be next, it could be puppetmaster or beastmaster or whatever.

The interviews that have been going on seems to touch up on almost every subject besides the Disciples of Magic...Why!?

Is anything planned at all for 2.0 release for Disciples of Magic? Or is going to be well after the release?

The spell could be cutscene, like the spells you see in intro cutscenes (on the boat for example). Something we, can never have /cry

I still think a Summoner will come, or some form of pet class if its not summoner directly. I dont think beastmaster though. But they also want debuff stuff, which i dont think Summoner would typically be for, so we may have Arcanist type.

I dont think there be new class at 2.0 more so after.

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Originally Posted by viion

The spell could be cutscene, like the spells you see in intro cutscenes (on the boat for example). Something we, can never have /cry

I still think a Summoner will come, or some form of pet class if its not summoner directly. I dont think beastmaster though. But they also want debuff stuff, which i dont think Summoner would typically be for, so we may have Arcanist type.

I dont think there be new class at 2.0 more so after.

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Oh god, please any disciple of magic that doesn't debuff, please. Debuffs are so useless right now it would be such a waste of a new damage dealing or healing mage.

But we don't know. The developers hardly ever commented on the disciples of magic. The only thing mentioned recently is that they don't have plans for Blue Mage skills. It only makes me think that they haven't even touched on the idea of adding another disciple of magic.

If the debuff effects on some of our spells were more potent, I think it would increase the utility of spells like Stone and Aero.

Sometimes, even as THM, I'll open with stone as it "decreases" magic evasion. While the debuff does land often for me, its really hard to gauge its use. I rarely cast Aero as the dot on it just doesn't seem all too great.

There is a whole library of spells that got removed... these could easily be repurposed into a new DoM. Class = Sorcerer/Sorcery, Job = Necromancer ?

Considering those spells were themed around life/death, astral/umbral... it kind of makes sense.

Well, they could make Arcanist and its job have "field" buffs and traps like the infamous boat bubble since the community has talked so much about it.

That could be an alternative way to introduce buffs/debuffs as the typical blind, silence, etc ... since they're already attached to damage spells.

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Originally Posted by giolli

If the debuff effects on some of our spells were more potent, I think it would increase the utility of spells like Stone and Aero.

Sometimes, even as THM, I'll open with stone as it "decreases" magic evasion. While the debuff does land often for me, its really hard to gauge its use. I rarely cast Aero as the dot on it just doesn't seem all too great.

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It's not just the potency that's the problem, it's the whole enfeeble system that was ruined. They were remade to be used for a fast-paced one time moment. Try casting sleepga on a frog more than once and see how fast it wakes up.

No one notices how terrible it is because you run through most trash mobs or burn them down with aoes. It's just another reason why there needs to be a spell reform soon.

No matter how much piety you stack the only time an enfeeble is useful is the first use, after that it's near worthless it's effect will never be as good as the first use. Which is why a new disciple of magic that is strictly debuff only WILL be useless. It would hardly be desired after people see how bad enfeebles really are.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Oh god, please any disciple of magic that doesn't debuff, please. Debuffs are so useless right now it would be such a waste of a new damage dealing or healing mage.

But we don't know. The developers hardly ever commented on the disciples of magic. The only thing mentioned recently is that they don't have plans for Blue Mage skills. It only makes me think that they haven't even touched on the idea of adding another disciple of magic.

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I am just taking from interviews

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http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-in...nix-fallen-mmo
NY: First off, personally we believe that there still aren't enough buffs or debuffs or crowd-control types of abilities and spells. The first thing was adding more of these.

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This isn't class specific but it talks about the skills, and 1 class could be made to for-fill all of these. Might be his plan. I dunno.

I'd really love ma slow/paralyze/dia/bio back XD

Well its gonna be the same story if they come out for mage jobs that only debuff. The Trash mobs will die to fast for them to be any use. And the Dlvl crap make Debuffs useless on bosses, theyeither resisted entirely or its land for 10 second not enough to make a difference, or well just never see it proc of the boss.

Even before the revamp... I really didn't feel any debuffs/enfeebles were worth casting. They had a negligible impact. Slow was the only spell that I recall that "seemed" to work. My experience with binds was that they really lasted barely a second.

Maybe they realized that "recreating" debuffs in the new system was a lost cause during the revamp? Or at least creating a class centered around debuffs and enfeebling just wasn't going to work?

2.0 is an interesting beast because we really don't know how much of the core game that we already know will change. At one point, I expected essentially reworked maps, reworked graphics engine and reworked quests/content. Now, based on interviews, it seems like they're revamping/reworking almost everything.

I do agree, in order for a debuff class to work, it needs to be useful and be impactful throughout an entire combat scenario.

I'd like to see defuffs made useful again. Once the battle has started debuffing really is pointless. The mobs usually die too fast or the effect isn't enough. Aside from that we really need more spells, not just a new class.

On a different note, I want that forcefield (the one in the LL intro) back (well, tecnically, it can't come back is it's never been in the game, but you know what I mean).

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It's not just the potency that's the problem, it's the whole enfeeble system that was ruined. They were remade to be used for a fast-paced one time moment. Try casting sleepga on a frog more than once and see how fast it wakes up.

No one notices how terrible it is because you run through most trash mobs or burn them down with aoes. It's just another reason why there needs to be a spell reform soon.

No matter how much piety you stack the only time an enfeeble is useful is the first use, after that it's near worthless it's effect will never be as good as the first use. Which is why a new disciple of magic that is strictly debuff only WILL be useless. It would hardly be desired after people see how bad enfeebles really are.

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I agree! I can't remember which thread but I mentioned that if they bring back real debuffs they have to make some revisions to the CC cooldown system, otherwise debuffers are gonna feel useless. so tired of debuffs being sandwiched in with other skills/spells. It sucks that we have dispel at the moment, but it hardly ever gets used because it's on freaking Aerora.

well, they also need to get passed the mentality of "Oh why do we need a debuffer? If we just through in a DD we'll kill it faster anyways." This game right now is far to DD heavy.

Like Red Mage for instance, Jack of all Trades, Master at Nothing, We know will be the Debuffer job, I havent played the original FFs to know exactly what red mage can do, but ill base it of of 11s Rdm.

What it Might be.

Debuffs - As of right now, Useless

White Magic - If it gets anything from Whm, it wont outshine Whm, EVER, unless it gets Reraise, shell, Haste and refresh, but asides from refresh, Whm will rage not getting the other 3.

Black Magic - Lets face it Red Mage will never touch Black Mage dmg, the only thing i see is Rdm actually getting the use of only Aero and Stone, but do to Rdm limitations of not getting the Higher tier it wont get the Ra's.

Red Magic - I for one expect obviously since they said Rdm will be a front line job the Return of the En spells, that Don't waste Mp like the Monk Hand of Line. ( And the weapon should have the effect on the Rdms Sword like the opening Trailer that the Caster used to put fire on the Arrow to kill the Marbolo). The Return of the Light and Dark dots Bio and Dia. Let Blm get the rest.

Melee - Fencer - Not sure about that but i thought i heard Rapiers will be their weapons, if anyone can show me this it be appreciated. Rapiers are Faster and Weaker than their Long Sword counter parts, Which would add to Rdm being the heavy DoT class.

But alas the Community gave Red Mage the second lowest vote, so probably wont see that for a while either. I bet the only reason why pet job won was cause everyone wants BeastMaster. I bet if Summoner had its own spot Its be at the bottom with Dark Knight and Red Mage.

truth. i think they need to ignore the polls on this one and put out a straight debuffer. i mean, if they want to truly make this an FF MMORPG, nothing says final fantasy lovin' like the pillsbury debuff boy

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

I bet if Summoner had its own spot Its be at the bottom with Dark Knight and Red Mage.

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I beg to differ. lol

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I beg to differ. lol

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No dont get me wrong i couldnt be happier that it pet jobs won, cause at least now 1 job i really wanna play might be added. But im a pessimist and totally expect them to add Beastmaster first.

The major thing I'd like to see changed is the way mobs die so fast. It makes many things feel less effective like debuffs, combos, and crowd controls. An AoE fest also makes exping really boring imo. I'm glad they added exp chains/mob link, but it shouldn't be as easy as AoEing them down to get great exp. I hope they change this by raising the difficulty of each mob so that debuffs/crowdcontrols are required to handle a link of 3~5 mobs.

I think the diminishing effect of sleep is okay because you shouldn't be able to keep a mob slept forever. They should lower the reset time on the diminishing effect for some of the debuffs like paralyze, slow, and blind imo.

It was really disheartening when Yoshi proclaimed that mobs of your lvl range should die within 30 seconds.
While I don't want to go back to the old days (like soloing with XI's BLM; THE HORRORS!), I think this is waay too fast.

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

The major thing I'd like to see changed is the way mobs die so fast. It makes many things feel less effective like debuffs, combos, and crowd controls. An AoE fest also makes exping really boring imo. I'm glad they added exp chains/mob link, but it shouldn't be as easy as AoEing them down to get great exp. I hope they change this by raising the difficulty of each mob so that debuffs/crowdcontrols are required to handle a link of 3~5 mobs.

I think the diminishing effect of sleep is okay because you shouldn't be able to keep a mob slept forever. They should lower the reset time on the diminishing effect for some of the debuffs like paralyze, slow, and blind imo.

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Mobs definitely die too fast for me too. Especially when playing as a magic caster. 1-2 spells or a combo will kill most mobs even 3 levels higher than me way too fast making debuffs pointless... I'm killing mobs my level within 10 secs... To me there's just no sense of accomplishment in this.

also there is the issue of doing 2 combos and you are almost out of mp...i wish they bring back the spell levels and decrease the dmg/mp needed.

not really a fan of current BLM :( .

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Originally Posted by Sehro

also there is the issue of doing 2 combos and you are almost out of mp...i wish they bring back the spell levels and decrease the dmg/mp needed.

not really a fan of current BLM :( .

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Can i ask? Are you using the Full Thundaga combo? Cause you really cant run out of Mp with just a Thunder - Thundara combo. If so stop cause Thundagas dmg is only good if it Crits. The only time i use it is if Excruiate doesn't go off on Thundara.

Blue Mage is out the cards it seems =(

well look at the game right now. The monsters die in seconds learning Blue Magic would be so god damn hard.

PS god only know whats SEs formul;a would be for learning Blue magic. Imagine if Learning it was equivalent to getting and ifreit weapon.

They have tons of magic classes that could be released, yet nothing as far as to what might be released.

Just don't want to wait another half a year or more for new disciple of magic, while Blm/Thm stays thunder-only caster. It's boring, and uninteresting and what about the people who only want to play casters only? After almost two years there should be more.

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Originally Posted by viion

Blue Mage is out the cards it seems =(

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/wrists :(

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

No dont get me wrong i couldnt be happier that it pet jobs won, cause at least now 1 job i really wanna play might be added. But im a pessimist and totally expect them to add Beastmaster first.

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This would be a good thing, especially since we already know Shepherd will be a class in this game.

One of the interviews I read stated that the picture of the black mage using a thunder spell was actually showing off the new animations for spells. Like they are getting revamped. I'm pretty sure that's what it said.

Also, I hate the way they work right now. Primary damage is Thunder combos which is so lame. I honestly don't think everything should combo. They should do something IMO, it's very boring being a black mage.

And another thing, they need to make enemies last a whole hell of a lot longer than they do now and make the debuffs a lot stronger since sometimes they take forever to stick.

Guess thats why he said he's interested in the SC+MB system from XI and we may see something similar to that when they finish redoing battle regimen.

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Originally Posted by giolli

Maybe they realized that "recreating" debuffs in the new system was a lost cause during the revamp? Or at least creating a class centered around debuffs and enfeebling just wasn't going to work?

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Probably the latter. As I always say, enfeebling is a tertiary class aspect, and should never be the raison d'etre of any class or job.

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2.0 is an interesting beast because we really don't know how much of the core game that we already know will change. At one point, I expected essentially reworked maps, reworked graphics engine and reworked quests/content. Now, based on interviews, it seems like they're revamping/reworking almost everything.

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My hope is that debuffs are spread out between classes that make sense, but to stay away from the nonsensical absolutes that encompasses most of the Final Fantasy spells. If they re-imagine the debuffs in a way that makes sense and just used the names we are familiar with, it would be a big step forward from what we had.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This would be a good thing, especially since we already know Shepherd will be a class in this game.

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Its not good cause theres only 2 mages in the game it needs more there 5 melees

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This would be a good thing, especially since we already know Shepherd will be a class in this game.

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Shepard isn't a DoW/M class it would most likely be the DoL class that would help out leathworkers and crafts using animal parts that can only be "gathered" through fighting atm lol. As to why that DoL wasn't implemented from Day 1 nobody knows lol.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Shepard isn't a DoW/M class it would most likely be the DoL class that would help out leathworkers and crafts using animal parts that can only be "gathered" through fighting atm lol. As to why that DoL wasn't implemented from Day 1 nobody knows lol.

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Yeah, I'm tired of killing sheep ;-;. Maybe if they add that, they can reduce the drop rate on leathers from fighting which SHOULD help with the bots running rampart.

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Originally Posted by giolli

Even before the revamp... I really didn't feel any debuffs/enfeebles were worth casting. They had a negligible impact. Slow was the only spell that I recall that "seemed" to work. My experience with binds was that they really lasted barely a second.

I do agree, in order for a debuff class to work, it needs to be useful and be impactful throughout an entire combat scenario.

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Thaumaturge was my main the first year I played and I thoroughly enjoyed the job UP until the spell reforms. My main job as THM was to debuff and enfeeble, and I never really had any issues with it, or with them landing. I thoroughly enjoyed being a support mage, and with how the game was back then, you needed at least 1 THM in your pt to debuff/enfeeble (it really helped in darkhold). Not sure how anyone else feels, but I totally miss that about the old spells/actions. I liked the idea of combos, but they totally destroyed THM by making it an elemental class. I had always wondered, if they make another job from THM, that job isnt gonna differ much from either BLM or THM because it's still gonna be casting thunder/fire combos >.>

I really want Arcanist, and if we get it, I hope its what THM used to be.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

Thaumaturge was my main the first year I played and I thoroughly enjoyed the job UP until the spell reforms. My main job as THM was to debuff and enfeeble, and I never really had any issues with it, or with them landing. I thoroughly enjoyed being a support mage, and with how the game was back then, you needed at least 1 THM in your pt to debuff/enfeeble (it really helped in darkhold). Not sure how anyone else feels, but I totally miss that about the old spells/actions. I liked the idea of combos, but they totally destroyed THM by making it an elemental class. I had always wondered, if they make another job from THM, that job isnt gonna differ much from either BLM or THM because it's still gonna be casting thunder/fire combos >.>

I really want Arcanist, and if we get it, I hope its what THM used to be.

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Unless they change the current system of enfeebling, the class won't be high in demand. Why take a job that won't effect bosses too much, or trash mobs that die from a spam fest of steel cyclone, drg combos,and blm with the fire line, the only time making fire spells good for anything (still not a good thing).

Jinrya, could you give me the short on each spell's situational usage for BLM? I have yet to level a BLM to 50, since I stopped playing casters after Conjurer's lost the elemental wheel and Thaumaturges lost the majority of their playstyle connection to lore (imo).

From what I've heard so far, it sounds like each spell type covers one purpose (Fire chain - AoE, Blizzard chain - slowing, Thunder - damage), and since damage is the only thing that doesn't run out of use, 80+% of casts are for the Thunder Chain. Is that approximately right?

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(To be replaced once I've heard what the playstyle is actually like)
If that's the case, the easiest increase to enjoyable variability would be to create either combo branching, rather than mere combo chaining, which seems helpful for just about any class, or to have a sort of secondary tier to combo-ing, a bit like turning the intentions of a series of spells. This would probably be done through another spell, though it should be one that's neither so commonly used as to be annoying, nor as unused as I hear many BLM auxiliary spells are. A pair of spells though, might be more appropriate.

For example, if you spammed Thunder for a minute straight, you could hit this spell and cast Blizzard, which would cause the target to take a chance at being stunned (slowing / debilitation being the basic 'intention' of Blizzard), based on damage taken compared to its health per second over the next variable (additional Blizzard casts increasing time?) duration.

The issue with that though would be that something has to keep track of the "spamming Thunder for a minute straight", which would likely require either another spell, or a passive Stance / Style type spectrum, (between Damage, Dispersal, and Debilitation so to speak).

Otherwise, one could play on that concept further by using a second spell (Element Soul / Resonance) enabling a larger, more powerful cast of a certain element available to them with the more effect that spell type has had while the spell was active. So, cast Resonance, stack a bunch of Fire-type spells while wiping out small mobs, maybe spreading debuffs along the way, perhaps even including spreading them onto the larger mobs, neglecting direct debuff defenses, though with a lower base chance. Then, use the first spell (Will of the Wheel / Intent), start stacking Frost-types on the boss, building up a Debilitation-type intent. [*This would probably also require that Frost spells could actually do more than merely induce Heavy, and that enfeebling effects in general were greater, with a larger number of total effects possible, with multiple tiers in source and niche.] Once the next wave of small adds spawn I use Fire-type spells, releasing my Resonance charge on Firaga, with the intention still on Debilitation, taking all the stacked debuffs from the boss, along with some frost magic and dispersing it onto the mobs.

*I'd still need to figure out how this would differ from Fire-stacking, Frost burst, etc.

**Honestly, just because there are exactly 3 primary spell types in use, it seems best that there would be three spells added, which should cover and/or replace most functions of the present auxiliary spells while actually being used (and fun to use at that). However, other than the niche (Intent above), and basic elemental type (Resonance above), I can't think of anything atm. Maybe something to do with style, between Power, Speed, and Defense? Idk. I haven't thought that far ahead in this overblown reply. I just feel like it should be 3 and 3. Kind of like a spell wheel with 3 points of view on what separates these 3 particular elements, and the 3 elements themselves in each. Just instinct though. Nothing solidified yet.
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*On the increased enfeebling ability of Frost-type spells mentioned before, I'd really like to be able to do something slow a boss's swing speed to keep a tank alive. But it should function in a different way than true "enfeebling debuffs", i.e. the difference between freezing someone's arm for a moment before the ice breaks and them being slowed exactly 30% for exactly 1 minute, the latter befitting a Thaumaturge far more than a Black Mage.

**I suppose the idea of Flame-magic being usable for dispersal would follow the same idea. Likewise, Thunder-magic perhaps being able to cause slight defense losses of its own, in an aggregate, non-absolute way (not as if by a rule), as mentioned above.

I hope the next pet class is Puppetmaster. I effing love that job.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Jinrya, could you give me the short on each spell's situational usage for BLM? I have yet to level a BLM to 50, since I stopped playing casters after Conjurer's lost the elemental wheel and Thaumaturges lost the majority of their playstyle connection to lore (imo).

From what I've heard so far, it sounds like each spell type covers one purpose (Fire chain - AoE, Blizzard chain - slowing, Thunder - damage), and since damage is the only thing that doesn't run out of use, 80+% of casts are for the Thunder Chain. Is that approximately right?

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(To be replaced once I've heard what the playstyle is actually like)
If that's the case, the easiest increase to enjoyable variability would be to create either combo branching, rather than mere combo chaining, which seems helpful for just about any class, or to have a sort of secondary tier to combo-ing, a bit like turning the intentions of a series of spells. This would probably be done through another spell, though it should be one that's neither so commonly used as to be annoying, nor as unused as I hear many BLM auxiliary spells are. A pair of spells though, might be more appropriate.

For example, if you spammed Thunder for a minute straight, you could hit this spell and cast Blizzard, which would cause the target to take a chance at being stunned (slowing / debilitation being the basic 'intention' of Blizzard), based on damage taken compared to its health per second over the next variable (additional Blizzard casts increasing time?) duration.

The issue with that though would be that something has to keep track of the "spamming Thunder for a minute straight", which would likely require either another spell, or a passive Stance / Style type spectrum, (between Damage, Dispersal, and Debilitation so to speak).

Otherwise, one could play on that concept further by using a second spell (Element Soul / Resonance) enabling a larger, more powerful cast of a certain element available to them with the more effect that spell type has had while the spell was active. So, cast Resonance, stack a bunch of Fire-type spells while wiping out small mobs, maybe spreading debuffs along the way, perhaps even including spreading them onto the larger mobs, neglecting direct debuff defenses, though with a lower base chance. Then, use the first spell (Will of the Wheel / Intent), start stacking Frost-types on the boss, building up a Debilitation-type intent. [*This would probably also require that Frost spells could actually do more than merely induce Heavy, and that enfeebling effects in general were greater, with a larger number of total effects possible, with multiple tiers in source and niche.] Once the next wave of small adds spawn I use Fire-type spells, releasing my Resonance charge on Firaga, with the intention still on Debilitation, taking all the stacked debuffs from the boss, along with some frost magic and dispersing it onto the mobs.

*I'd still need to figure out how this would differ from Fire-stacking, Frost burst, etc.

**Honestly, just because there are exactly 3 primary spell types in use, it seems best that there would be three spells added, which should cover and/or replace most functions of the present auxiliary spells while actually being used (and fun to use at that). However, other than the niche (Intent above), and basic elemental type (Resonance above), I can't think of anything atm. Maybe something to do with style, between Power, Speed, and Defense? Idk. I haven't thought that far ahead in this overblown reply. I just feel like it should be 3 and 3. Kind of like a spell wheel with 3 points of view on what separates these 3 particular elements, and the 3 elements themselves in each. Just instinct though. Nothing solidified yet.
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*On the increased enfeebling ability of Frost-type spells mentioned before, I'd really like to be able to do something slow a boss's swing speed to keep a tank alive. But it should function in a different way than true "enfeebling debuffs", i.e. the difference between freezing someone's arm for a moment before the ice breaks and them being slowed exactly 30% for exactly 1 minute, the latter befitting a Thaumaturge far more than a Black Mage.

**I suppose the idea of Flame-magic being usable for dispersal would follow the same idea. Likewise, Thunder-magic perhaps being able to cause slight defense losses of its own, in an aggregate, non-absolute way (not as if by a rule), as mentioned above.

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I will try. Fire spells, they are only good for trash mobs. On bosses, they do absolutely crap damage. My best example for this would be chimera. Fire against chimera is terrible. I boost my damage with intelligence and magic attack potency, but against the boss itself it's bad damage. Against the adds like the ants of princess or chimera ant adds it kills them pretty fast. I don't like that. The boss is always more important than the adds.

Blizzard, against even Garuda, who is supposed to be susceptible to ice because she is a wind, doesn't matter. The damage is terrible. Against spamming steel cyclone warriors or Dragoons, blizzard is useless, the mobs will be set free by bind or sleepga. Making the blizzard line useless.

Flare- is god damn useless because of the fact it's self-aoe.

Convert, I hardly use.

Sleepga, unless it's darkhold, I never use = worthless.

Like I said in another post. If more than half the spells are useless, then how is that successful as a class/job.

P.S Edit: Drunk at the moment, give me a few hours to collect my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

Its not good cause theres only 2 mages in the game it needs more there 5 melees

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Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

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This maybe true, that he has shown interest. But it could also be to show interest to make other calm down. If that were true, he showed genuine interest the class would have been released now. It's already been shown in DATs and what the developers have said that the class should have been released from the start. So why hasn't it?

Because, they don't know what to do with it. It would be alot easier to say, than make up some excuse of we are waiting for than 2.0.

(Oh my god Jinrya has caught on to our plan. /ban him)

Honestly, I think whatever classes come out should have a good pairing in the other groups, something that contributes in the non-combat sector. For example, Puppeteer --> Scavenger / Artificer --> Engineer / Mechanist; Shepard --> Beastmaster. Tetra Cards / Bestiary --> Summoner. Whatever it is should have additional components introduced at the same time that make it feel that much fuller.

I'd rather see another Caster class than Melee for obvious reasons. However, I really think only 3 Caster classes will every be necessary. If class gameplay and jobs were to actually play to their lore, then anything soul related should come through Thaumaturge, creation / elemental based should come from Conjurer, and anything else related to the knowledge or manipulation of magic itself or values therein (i.e. Calculator, Scholar, etc) should come through Arcanist.

That said, I find the exact job requirements to be foolishly rigid, and would rather simply be able to able to bring up whatever classes I think best support a job, the job then being like an extra class to learn additional tricks from with time, perhaps at cost of fewer outside spells equipable. In short, shouldn't belong to an exact class 30 / 15 combination.

On the note of classes spanning out to jobs, I've always hoped that Gladiator would be simplified to Swordsman, so that it could potentially include Fencer and Samurai, in addition to Gladiator (the survivalist) and Paladin (the group tank). That's not to say I like the idea of classes being named after their weapons; far from it. I just think Swordsman still has enough of a interesting vibe behind it, and it's the one most locked out by its current class name, including from two of my favorite class premises. (Honestly, I don't want to see Samurai and Fencer only as they were before.)

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Melees have always outnumbered mages in FF. Have you played any of the games in the series? Yoshida has shown interest in something similar to a Calculator in Final Fantasy Tactics, along with Arcanist. Maybe the two will be something similar.

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yes i have, and yes you are right mages are usually out numbered. But still the fact is that there is only 2 mage jobs. where others have had necromancer, time mage, red mage, blue mage, etc as opposed to just blm and white mage.