Field Commander set: can the requirements to earn it be reviewed?

The requirement of 100 Seal Rock wins to obtain the Field Commander coat is utterly frustrating, especially since you get no progress at all from anything but a win – no matter how well you played or how narrow the victory was. It seems an excessively high wall to lock glamour behind for what is supposed to be casual content – by comparison, you're guaranteed your primal mounts after less than a hundred unsynched victories, but this will take on average 300 twenty-minute fights with no possibility of it becoming easier over time.

Ideally I would like to see it simplified in general – perhaps 100 matches rather than 100 wins – but if lessening it is not an option then perhaps is it possible to shift the requirements for it from pure wins to some kind of cumulative points total?

The current requirement is essentially reaching 100 x 800 points, so a cumulative total of 80,000 points would be the same target, but then you'd still be making progress towards it with a fail while getting there faster by winning.

Theoretically, yes, they can be reviewed.

Will they? No. Enjoy the suffering.

I quite like where it is. 300 matches theoretically, though the better you get, the fewer it will take.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I quite like where it is. 300 matches theoretically, though the better you get, the fewer it will take.

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It just doesn't seem to be anything much to do with skill. My proportion of wins hasn't gone up over time, and everyone else wants the same thing so everyone improves equally and we're back to a game that's so balanced that everyone comes close to winning but can't.

It's a massive amount of luck, and you're guaranteed to have more frustrations and losses than wins, for which you get nothing at all.

In the past you just went full premade with 7 PvP friends and played the 24 version of the mode, because 72 would have never popped, because we didn't have Frontline daily rotation yet. And then you had a 90-100% winrate.

Nowadays you suffer through RNG matches with 72 players forced sized maps, with only being able to join with 3 PvP friends. Your impact is smaller. You probably need 300 matches to get 100 wins. But the advantage is you don't need to wait hours for Seal Rock to pop anymore.

I would recommend them to let players play with their friends again more in PvP...and reintroduce 24 mode

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It just doesn't seem to be anything much to do with skill. My proportion of wins hasn't gone up over time, and everyone else wants the same thing so everyone improves equally and we're back to a game that's so balanced that everyone comes close to winning but can't.

It's a massive amount of luck, and you're guaranteed to have more frustrations and losses than wins, for which you get nothing at all.

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Pretty much. I did 3 Seal Rocks today and 2/3 matches we lost because one of the teams decided they would relentlessly spawn camp us even when we were in last place and the winning team got to keep node after node in peace on their own side of the map. Literally nothing our team could've done to salvage the situation because it was just red killing their own chances at victory and dragging us down with them.

It will take a long time since now you can only play Seal Rock once every 4 days. Just gonna have to be patient.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

It will take a long time since now you can only play Seal Rock once every 4 days. Just gonna have to be patient.

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I mean, no? You can just keep doing the roulette over and over on that day, but it's definitely slower seeing as there's 3 other maps to cycle through.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It just doesn't seem to be anything much to do with skill. My proportion of wins hasn't gone up over time, and everyone else wants the same thing so everyone improves equally and we're back to a game that's so balanced that everyone comes close to winning but can't.

It's a massive amount of luck, and you're guaranteed to have more frustrations and losses than wins, for which you get nothing at all.

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This is actually a lapse in basic numeration as well as competition psychology.

First of all, everyone has "randomness", including your opponent. The micro is things like where nodes spawn, the teammates you get, etc. To some extent this is true in any form of competition where you are matched with people. You get people whose total sum of ability or output is worse than your opponent. Of course, it leaves out the basic fact that your opponents often have a deficit to make up for. FL, RW, CC, PvP in any game, any sport, you have lost to opponents who have had worst circumstances to overcome, because they were better than you.

The macro is your ability to mitigate randomness. This is why people in very random games like poker or TCGs can have positive winrates. Of course in the micro you can have bad luck, unwinnable situations. However, your strategy or ability is to win more often than other people against degrees of "luck", and this degree of influence is your statistical individual influence. Furthermore, a matchmaking system always has a degree of retention, VS players exiting the system, as well as degree of investment. You should be winning more the more you play, and if you are not, it is a lack of ability. Because micro circumstances affect a game, but your macro individual performance, over so many games, will increase the likelihood of performing well, shotcalling well (mitigated against randomness of how much players assigned to you respond).

And I can prove this. I myself, who I would consider above average, have a about a 39% first place rate, 28% third place rate. This means that, weighed against 71 people, over so many games (about 2k FL matches), I have increased my chances of a first place win by about 18%, which isn't bad. This is mostly solo queue. Goes up when I queue with good players, goes down when I queue with people who are new, which has been a lot lately since I have been getting a lot of people into PvP their first time. People who are way better than me can get over 40% first place winrates, and of course even just one friend you play with can increase that drastically, especially if you are on comms, but I don't want to bring that into the picture since not everyone can have that. And, of course, it is worth mentioning for all the times you can get a stack on the enemy team, you can get a stack on your team, which again, is equally random for everyone unless you yourself form the stack.

All statistical evidence suggests that, the more you play, if you are at all improve, you will win more often. This has been checked against thousands of permutations, you should have about 33.33% average first place winrate. Less when you are new (basically fodder for the better players to build BH and get more wins), and more with your experience. A mere cursory glance at achievements shows a majority of people have generally a low number of total games, but a lot of people are entering the system, that means anyone who wants the coat, and they don't suck at the game, will get it marginally faster than 300 matches. Even if it's just 280 matches or something that's not too bad.

And honestly, if you can't win 100 matches of Seal Rock, you are not a Field Commander. You are a Cadet, and that coat isn't for you. :p It is a glamour that has prestige. It is also the one PvP 100 win achievement with reward intervals, too, so you are getting stuff before you even reach 100.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

And I can prove this. I myself, who I would consider above average, have a about a 39% first place rate, 28% third place rate.

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You know this winrate in the pic used to be a lot better. 2 revamps and its even sub 50%. If I would play another 1000 matches I would probably be sub 40% like you.

It is a bit too much clusterfck nowadays. It used to be more useful to win just by leading people.

The Field Commander set should be dyeable btw, it is not even really pure white..

https://i.ibb.co/7QBs768/image.png

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I quite like where it is. 300 matches theoretically, though the better you get, the fewer it will take.

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Uh, we are talking about Frontline here where wins and losses are determined solely by luck?

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Uh, we are talking about Frontline here where wins and losses are determined solely by luck?

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A single match is luck. Many matches is your ability. If you still have <30% winrate after hundreds of matches, you should be re-evaluating your approach.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

You know this winrate in the pic used to be a lot better. 2 revamps and its even sub 50%. If I would play another 1000 matches I would probably be sub 40% like you.

It is a bit too much clusterfck nowadays. It used to be more useful to win just by leading people.

The Field Commander set should be dyeable btw, it is not even really pure white..

https://i.ibb.co/7QBs768/image.png

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To go back to this, I agree. Feel like 6.1 PvP mitigates skill index more than previous. It's so much more volatile and carry power is diminished without a three or four stack.

It's suppose to be an evergreen achievement just like the mounts. Just something you get eventually. It's still less of a troll than the titles.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

The Field Commander set should be dyeable btw, it is not even really pure white..

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Yeah... yeah it should.

This problem could very easily be fixed by having Frontline set to a random map draw upon que pop instead of 1 map per week. You would have the chance to make progress on your coat every single day.

(Okay I know its 1 map per 4 days, point still stands lol.)

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

I mean, no? You can just keep doing the roulette over and over on that day, but it's definitely slower seeing as there's 3 other maps to cycle through.

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These rewards aren't something that is meant to be acquired quickly. If you are too impatient... well that's a "you" problem then.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

I mean, no? You can just keep doing the roulette over and over on that day, but it's definitely slower seeing as there's 3 other maps to cycle through.

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It's actually faster, because in the past only Shatter would pop for FL.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

This is actually a lapse in basic numeration as well as competition psychology.

First of all, everyone has "randomness", including your opponent.

The macro is your ability to mitigate randomness. This is why people in very random games like poker or TCGs can have positive winrates.

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I'm fully aware that the other teams are fighting luck just as much as I am. That doesn't make it any less frustrating to lose over and over based on that luck after twenty minutes of high-intensity struggle.

Also, people playing poker or TCGs are playing solo. Their performance is entirely down to how they personally handle their situation.

In Frontline, whatever skill you may have comes down to 1/24th of the team's performance. And even if you're the best player ever, the other team might have more people who are just as good.

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Originally Posted by Sinstrel

This problem could very easily be fixed by having Frontline set to a random map draw upon que pop instead of 1 map per week. You would have the chance to make progress on your coat every single day.

(Okay I know its 1 map per 4 days, point still stands lol.)

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That wouldn't remotely fix it. It would make the situation four times worse, because I would have to queue for Frontline and hope for Seal Rock instead of queuing on Seal Rock day.

I have a 40ish% winrate overall, few more wins for the coat but I still have days where I just can’t win. Even if I’m playing the same. Feels pretty rng based to me. *shrug* you can also be a player who literally does nothing in every match and still get the coat.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

You know this winrate in the pic used to be a lot better. 2 revamps and its even sub 50%. If I would play another 1000 matches I would probably be sub 40% like you.

It is a bit too much clusterfck nowadays. It used to be more useful to win just by leading people.

The Field Commander set should be dyeable btw, it is not even really pure white..

https://i.ibb.co/7QBs768/image.png

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Really want that to be dyed, it is such a good coat.
And I agree it is chaotic.

But overall the map rotation is also what holds back the grinding, not exactly just the wins. There are days you cannot play so you might miss the map you want to grind or days you are only losing, making it feel like you wasted your time.

Best advice i could give is to just play without worrying too much on the achievement and have a set amount of matches you want to do per day. (I also need this mentality if I want to get the Shatter title from 300 wins so Rhalgr grant me strenght, still at 121).

You have vastly better chances of winning if you bring your own party to FL. Solo potential is severly limited by wheter team listens to callouts and with all the damage reduction making it harder to punish others.

It's an achievement of perseverance. Otherwise it doesn't hold value.
You win roughly 1/3 times (I have 1200 games with 36% win rate so that's the normal RNG rate) so that's about 300 games. Suffer with everyone else.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

Suffer with everyone else.

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Well, if they changed it, everyone else would suffer less too.

I don't see the value in locking things behind lengthy perseverance requirements. I would get more joy out of seeing more people actually wearing the cool outfit.

I'm at 70 wins atm, so nearly there. Still wouldn't mind if they lowered it to 50 or 30 or whatever, I'd just be happy people got easier access to more stuff. But then again I never got the appeal of the exclusivity of items gated behind huge grinds, as opposed to ones gated behind hard content.

By that logic, let's just give people <Saint of the Firmament> for making a few crafts or gathering a few items.

The entire point of something being an achievement is that it takes time, effort, and perseverance to obtain. When I see people with Field Commander set or titles like Saint, I know they put in a lot of effort to get it, and they have my respect for doing so. They should get some sense of satisfaction from it too, I imagine.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

By that logic, let's just give people <Saint of the Firmament> for making a few crafts or gathering a few items.

The entire point of something being an achievement is that it takes time, effort, and perseverance to obtain. When I see people with Field Commander set or titles like Saint, I know they put in a lot of effort to get it, and they have my respect for doing so. They should get some sense of satisfaction from it too, I imagine.

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The Saint titles were a horrendous design and it was madness that the devs seemed pleased with it and repeated the process that encouraged people to craft at an unhealthy rate. I wasn't involved at all – neither crafting nor titles are my thing, though I'm not sure I'd have participated even if they were – and I don't see it as an achievement for them to be proud of. It just means they threw a ridiculous amount of time into it because the devs devised a system that would drain their time in a monstrous way when it could have been done with an approach that required daily participation but had a cap on how much time needed to be spent per day.

Likewise, I wouldn't be remotely proud of "achieving" ownership of the coat. It is a massive suck on my time that I probably should have spent on something better, and may come to nothing in the end if I don't get it completed – and all that to get it on just one character, and the process to be repeated if I want it for a second character.

It's an "achievement" established in another era of the game, where nearly all the other prizes from that era have become simpler and less time-consuming than they originally were. PVP doesn't allow this one to naturally simplify in the same way, which is why I think the devs need to manually review it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's an "achievement" established in another era of the game, where nearly all the other prizes from that era have become simpler and less time-consuming than they originally were. PVP doesn't allow this one to naturally simplify in the same way, which is why I think the devs need to manually review it.

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That's simply not true. The PVP mount from Onsaal is pretty much the same requirement. 100 wins. Implemented after the FL was put in a daily rotation. This is par for the course and normal.

OP just amounts to "I want X thing, so make it easier for me to get." Maybe it'll get put in the next Moogle Tomestone event where other things that took people a bunch of time and effort are given out for practically nothing.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The requirement of 100 Seal Rock wins to obtain the Field Commander coat is utterly frustrating, especially since you get no progress at all from anything but a win – no matter how well you played or how narrow the victory was. It seems an excessively high wall to lock glamour behind for what is supposed to be casual content – by comparison, you're guaranteed your primal mounts after less than a hundred unsynched victories, but this will take on average 300 twenty-minute fights with no possibility of it becoming easier over time.

Ideally I would like to see it simplified in general – perhaps 100 matches rather than 100 wins – but if lessening it is not an option then perhaps is it possible to shift the requirements for it from pure wins to some kind of cumulative points total?

The current requirement is essentially reaching 100 x 800 points, so a cumulative total of 80,000 points would be the same target, but then you'd still be making progress towards it with a fail while getting there faster by winning.

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I've always thought a point total achievement would be a nice change. Something like: 300 points, 3 for a win, 2 for second, 1 for third. It would make losing much less frustrating if you could still get some progress instead of none.

I'm a scrub with a slightly below average winrate and I did get the coat through perseverance. But I think it would be nice for others to not have to grind as long.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

OP just amounts to "I want X thing, so make it easier for me to get." Maybe it'll get put in the next Moogle Tomestone event where other things that took people a bunch of time and effort are given out for practically nothing.

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I don't believe the Moogle Tomestone events have ever given away achievement rewards. They tend to give things that drop from content or can be bought from special vendors.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

That's simply not true. The PVP mount from Onsaal is pretty much the same requirement. 100 wins. Implemented after the FL was put in a daily rotation. This is par for the course and normal.

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And I hope that can be reduced too, in time, or converted to being points-based as I suggested in the OP. But it was added to the game much later so any downgrading would also happen later.

It took me about 2 years to finally get this coat but I had to grind for it cuz I really wanted it. OP, you'll get it eventually if you just keep at it.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

OP just amounts to "I want X thing, so make it easier for me to get." Maybe it'll get put in the next Moogle Tomestone event where other things that took people a bunch of time and effort are given out for practically nothing.

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I would argue that the moogle tome events are their own variety of patience. If you want a thing when it comes out, do the content. Or you can choose to wait for literal years for it to eventually be sold at a tome event.

Oh I get it. Let's unlock all the old Feast mounts too then. Maybe buy them with some series crystals? And how about the 1.0 back tattoo? That was from ages ago. Maybe I can get one if I've played longer than my 30 day free trial? That'd be neat.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

Oh I get it. Let's unlock all the old Feast mounts too then. Maybe buy them with some series crystals? And how about the 1.0 back tattoo? That was from ages ago. Maybe I can get one if I've played longer than my 30 day free trial? That'd be neat.

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Feast mounts, yes. I think it was a terrible plan to ever permanently lock away standard gameplay things as prizes with no chance to acquire them afterwards.

But I recognise that the 1.0 tattoo is a very specific thing that should be restricted to those who were there in unique circumstances.

I got all the set back in 2016 and it took 1 year since Seal Rock released and have to join Immortal Flames to get win easily (back when it's still based on GC). IMO after the joining GC revamp, you get 33% chance to win basically and it's... kinda sucks.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

You know this winrate in the pic used to be a lot better. 2 revamps and its even sub 50%. If I would play another 1000 matches I would probably be sub 40% like you.

It is a bit too much clusterfck nowadays. It used to be more useful to win just by leading people.

https://i.ibb.co/7QBs768/image.png

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I don't know, but until now I keep getting same amount of winrate for both places since ShB pvp... I used to have too much 3rd place because of Maelstrom back in ARR tho...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...YshXjqXyZs.png

Winning FL matches is about leadership rather than individual combat skill. If you want to win more, learn how to shot-call. That's no shortcut or lazy way to do it, nor should there be. Take up the responsibility and lead the alliance. Yes, you will get people that don't listen. Yes you will get the 3rd place team throwing matches by focusing you instead of first place. Yes you will still lose sometimes. But You'll get more wins than not by taking charge and keeping morale high.


Before I started shot-calling in FL, I used to think that the old armies having drummer boys was some stupid thing. But after getting good at shot calling I understand that keeping morale up is the best way to win something. Map awareness and keeping people motivated wins games. It truly does. I've literally brought games back from 200/1400/1400 and won them. You have to be willing to try and have to be willing to lose. That's a part of learning. There will be people out there that hate you for it. They will throw a fit the entire game and argue with you calls. They'll yell at you for using sound effects and be deliberately in the way. And they will blame and mock you if you still lose. Ignore them. Let them have their losses. You want your wins and the silent people will thank you for it. The majority of my player commendations are from PVP (I mostly play DPS) and it shows that people are thankful even if they don't say so out loud.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Winning FL matches is about leadership rather than individual combat skill. If you want to win more, learn how to shot-call. That's no shortcut or lazy way to do it, nor should there be. Take up the responsibility and lead the alliance. Yes, you will get people that don't listen. Yes you will get the 3rd place team throwing matches by focusing you instead of first place. Yes you will still lose sometimes. But You'll get more wins than not by taking charge and keeping morale high.


Before I started shot-calling in FL, I used to think that the old armies having drummer boys was some stupid thing. But after getting good at shot calling I understand that keeping morale up is the best way to win something. Map awareness and keeping people motivated wins games. It truly does. I've literally brought games back from 200/1400/1400 and won them. You have to be willing to try and have to be willing to lose. That's a part of learning. There will be people out there that hate you for it. They will throw a fit the entire game and argue with you calls. They'll yell at you for using sound effects and be deliberately in the way. And they will blame and mock you if you still lose. Ignore them. Let them have their losses. You want your wins and the silent people will thank you for it. The majority of my player commendations are from PVP (I mostly play DPS) and it shows that people are thankful even if they don't say so out loud.

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Also markers greatly help. Focus target\putting some markers in certain places work wonderful. If you have a good tank, you help the tank and so on. It surprises how people immediately drone toward someone marked, like i legit forgot to remove a marker on a random enemy and poor guy constantly got focused, so there's that for better or worse.

And a major tip is to NEVER throw or call it quits if you get a bad start, the amount of times you get people discouraged because the firsts minutes we get ganked by both teams and have 0 points, it happens, it is still doable.

I don't see the problem with 100 wins. Get some friends, get good at reading the map, lead your zerg better than the enemy zerg with callouts and waymarks. I'm climbing winrate wise rn in Seal Rock just because I do that. Also play DRG/DRK/WAR, they're stupid strong compared to any other option for actual impact, followed by NIN/SAM/PLD. Legit if your 4 man is two DRGs, a DRK, and anything else that can buff/debuff/annoy the enemy like DNC (LB to remove guard when stacked under DRK AoE so DRG can LB) you'll have a bigger impact than randos and their 3000 damage bahamuts.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

This is actually a lapse in basic numeration as well as competition psychology.


if you can't win 100 matches of Seal Rock, you are not a Field Commander. You are a Cadet, and that coat isn't for you. :p It is a glamour that has prestige. It is also the one PvP 100 win achievement with reward intervals, too, so you are getting stuff before you even reach 100.

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No, this argument is ignorant af and as somebody who has the field commander coat i will tell you its 100% luck as you can play like a god and do everything right only to lose because the game decided to spawn three s ranks at the 2nd place base area lol (this has happened to me and let me just say its pure cancer.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Feast mounts, yes. I think it was a terrible plan to ever permanently lock away standard gameplay things as prizes with no chance to acquire them afterwards.

But I recognise that the 1.0 tattoo is a very specific thing that should be restricted to those who were there in unique circumstances.

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FOMO rewards are dumb, period.

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

No, this argument is ignorant af and as somebody who has the field commander coat i will tell you its 100% luck as you can play like a god and do everything right only to lose because the game decided to spawn three s ranks at the 2nd place base area lol (this has happened to me and let me just say its pure cancer.)

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I have the coat and the matches that were 100% lost to RNG and not mostly bad gameplay are so few and far between that they aren't worth mentioning.