DSR was just solo healed

https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._solo_healast/

Surprising nobody, it was an AST.

To me, this is the last piece of evidence we needed to be sure that the healing and mitigation provided by non-healer jobs should really be reduced.

Props to that group. It's an awesome feat.

At the same time it also makes me sadder.

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

The rng has nothing to do with healing itself and more healer-targeted mechanics. That it took them only 10 tries despite that is defijitely impressive, especially seeing as dsr is a fight you need to have to a flawless science to begin with to beat.

Is it worth drawing conclusions from? Maybe not but it's definitely worth noting.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

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In fairness, any group that's cleared DSR so far is a really advanced group min/maxing ;)

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

In fairness, any group that's cleared DSR so far is a really advanced group min/maxing ;)

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Valid point, haha!

But I think that just suggests that we'd need a LOT of groups doing this before we could draw the conclusion that healing is OP.

It's kinda funny reading the general reactions/replies in that thread. About half the people are saying (as is likely here) that this means healing is too easy, while half are noting what I am...and a bunch are also begging for AST not to be nerfed because of this. XD

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule.

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The argument is this exception shouldn't be remotely feasible regardless of player skill level. Ultimate, and even Savage, should be dealing enough damage that bringing only one healer is a guaranteed death. Otherwise, how can you ever engage two players in their primary role (healing) when only one is actually required? This is why healers spend the overwhelming majority of their casts on a single button. They have nothing else to do even at the Ultimate level.

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Originally Posted by Hellebore_Ghrian

To me, this is the last piece of evidence we needed to be sure that the healing and mitigation provided by non-healer jobs should really be reduced.

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This. It's already a joke in normal mode content that the tank is the healer and also the tank, but to see it reach Ultimate shows that there simply isn't enough healing required for healers to actually be engaged healing. And a lot of that is because there's so much healing coming from other sources.

The only time you really need to work hard in healing is if you've got a group that gets into real trouble by messing up a lot. The rest of the time, healers are just not very good DPS. That's not really true of the other roles. Does SE have no healers on the dev team, or is "we technically have healing but we don't want healers thinking about it when they could be mashing Glare instead" the actual design goal, here?

This is an excellent showcase of just how much MP you get from simply being Astrologian, if nothing else. Draw, Lucid Dreaming, Astrodyne... Crazy to think that someone thought AST needed any more sources of MP regen this expansion.

What's that the healer with two lucid dreamings and the most busted healing can solo heal ultimate?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

---

Or...

We could consider that healers are entirely optional in dungeons... (Oh and, all DPS or all tank runs of the alliance raids are a thing too).

We could consider that normal mode raids, designed for 8 players, were solo'd in the tier's starter gear...

We could consider that exs and savages have been solo healed or in some cases done with no healers, as usual...

-

Is solo healing DSR an impressive feat that was done by an exceptionally skilled player? Yes.
Is this some sort of weird exception to the rule in a game that's normally very demanding on healing? Hahaha. No.

Because its easy, now do it.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

Because its easy, now do it.

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Did you have a point with this?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Or...

We could consider that healers are entirely optional in dungeons... (Oh and, all DPS or all tank runs of the alliance raids are a thing too).

We could consider that normal mode raids, designed for 8 players, were solo'd in the tier's starter gear...

We could consider that exs and savages have been solo healed or in some cases done with no healers, as usual...

-

Is solo healing DSR an impressive feat that was done by an exceptionally skilled player? Yes.
Is this some sort of weird exception to the rule in a game that's normally very demanding on healing? Hahaha. No.

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Right? If you look at the clear, impressive though it was, it comes with a sweet near 50/50 DPS/healing ability split and around a 45% overheal. Solo healing the hardest content in the game, content supposedly meant for two healers, is possible while -still- spending half your time brainlessly mashing 111111111 and STILL overhealing by a lot.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

What's that the healer with two lucid dreamings and the most busted healing can solo heal ultimate?

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Now watch AST get nerfs in 6.2 rather than deal with the fact that the vast majority of mitigation comes from the party, and not the healer.

This is absolutely impressive and all props to that team. That being said, my favorite part is they still had over 100 casts of Fall Malefic and it was their most used spell.

The game is parodying itself at this point.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Or...

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Or nothing.

DPS are entirely optional in dungeons. Hell, I'd wager TANKS are. It would be a pita, but you could probably heal + 3 DPS any 4 man in this game. Likewise, people noting all tank runs of P1S work like to suggest this means healers are unnecessary, but that ALSO suggests DAMAGE DEALING JOBS are unnecessary if low damage tanks were able to clear the enrage without needing a single one, now doesn't it? This same argument likely carries to Extremes. There is ONE all class - no Job stone - Zodiark Ex run on the abacus. I know this because I was in it. (I don't run parsers, but I saw someone uploaded the run.) It was close, but I feel like if we were able to clear the add DPS check and enrage with a Gladiator, Marauder, two Conjurers, and four Pugalists, an all tank run of ZodEx is very likely entirely possible to do. Once again, does this mean Damage Dealers are unnecessary in FFXIV?

.

It's an impressive feat not done by JUST an exceptionally skilled player, but EIGHT - a full party - of exceptionally skilled players, working together, pushing their limits. It took a number of tries because they ALSO had to have luck turn just their way. They also had to cheese some mechanics to get it to work. And they brought the most overpowered of the healers that also has infinite MP along as their healer of choice to clear it.

YES, that is an exception to the rule.

But if you doubt it: Solo heal it right now and show us all how easy it is?

.

Is healing undertuned in much of the game?

Oh yes.

Does this prove healing is completely undertuned even in Ultimates and that there's no challenging content for healers in the entire game?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Does this prove healing is completely undertuned even in Ultimates and that there's no challenging content for healers in the entire game?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic

So engaging. So expertly tuned. A zillion thrills a minute.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Or nothing.

DPS are entirely optional in dungeons. Hell, I'd wager TANKS are. It would be a pita, but you could probably heal + 3 DPS any 4 man in this game. Likewise, people noting all tank runs of P1S work like to suggest this means healers are unnecessary, but that ALSO suggests DAMAGE DEALING JOBS are unnecessary if low damage tanks were able to clear the enrage without needing a single one, now doesn't it? This same argument likely carries to Extremes. There is ONE all class - no Job stone - Zodiark Ex run on the abacus. I know this because I was in it. (I don't run parsers, but I saw someone uploaded the run.) It was close, but I feel like if we were able to clear the add DPS check and enrage with a Gladiator, Marauder, two Conjurers, and four Pugalists, an all tank run of ZodEx is very likely entirely possible to do. Once again, does this mean Damage Dealers are unnecessary in FFXIV?

.

It's an impressive feat not done by JUST an exceptionally skilled player, but EIGHT - a full party - of exceptionally skilled players, working together, pushing their limits. It took a number of tries because they ALSO had to have luck turn just their way. They also had to cheese some mechanics to get it to work. And they brought the most overpowered of the healers that also has infinite MP along as their healer of choice to clear it.

YES, that is an exception to the rule.

But if you doubt it: Solo heal it right now and show us all how easy it is?

.

Is healing undertuned in much of the game?

Oh yes.

Does this prove healing is completely undertuned even in Ultimates and that there's no challenging content for healers in the entire game?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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I will say as a super casual player that dungeons and EX fights are undertuned for healers, especially when it becomes more efficient to have less or no healers to run that content.

Sure, all these random group setup scenarios are probably possible in content but it doesn't mean much when they are less efficient then subbing out a healer for another dps and asking the one healer to heal more.

I find it amusing that even as a solo healer on the hardest fight in the game, his most casted spell is STILL Fall Malefic.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

DPS are entirely optional in dungeons. Hell, I'd wager TANKS are. It would be a pita, but you could probably heal + 3 DPS any 4 man in this game.

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This is absolutely true, you can clear any dungeon with any set of four jobs you want, nothing is tuned in a way that would prevent it. It would be a LOT slower without a single DPS, though. And clearing content faster is objectively better than clearing it slower, especially when we're taking about content you're largely only doing to farm currency. There's no benefit to a purposefully slower run though, other than perhaps the novelty of amusing yourself once or twice by going in with 4 healers and getting the clear. So, while yes, DPS are also by no means mandatory on the lower end of the difficulty spectrum, they're still *desirable*, and one tank that can self heal through a bigger pull while the DPS burn things faster in turn is also desirable. Healers... not so much. This is what people *actually* mean when they say they're unneeded. Not that they're unusable or anything else couldn't be dropped as well, but simply that in general if you can get away with doing so it's always better to drop as many healers as possible... and that it is also very common to be able to do that with at least one of them in most content.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

Because its easy, now do it.

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If you had read what people said...
You'd see that they congratulated the group and the healer and they recognized the effort needeed.

The point is not player skills. It's that the hardest content of the game shouldn't even be doable without 2 healers.
Especially after Yoship repeadetly telling us "wait Savage, wait Ultimate" each time people were complanining about the bad healer design.

We gathered enough data other the past years to proove that there is a huge disconnect and problem with healing and healer.

Anything would be better than what we have right now. It's a fake role, a fidget spinner you give to kids to keep them distracted while the rest of the group does their work. As someone who has been a career healer since XI but can barely stomach it in XIV it's very frustrating.

As is, you could dismantle the entire role and dish out a few more role actions or up consumable use and the game would very sincerely improve in both depth and usability.

It doesn't matter how many healing buttons there are when there's zero thought process or need for any of it, WHMs had to beg to even be able to throw their useless healing into the void where you'd be clawing at the walls for Lillies in any other MMO raid. Cracking potions over heads in retro JRPGs genuinely has more tension and triage than 99.99% of healer gameplay in XIV.

I have no opinion on what they do anymore, my only care at this point is to actually see the development team lift a finger to do something about genuine rot.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

---

Nah we can draw conclusions. This combined with everything else is just icing on the cake. It’s a prime example of the problems with healing and a direct rebuttal against Yoshi P’s shitty mindset of “just go play Ultimate for engaging healing.” Tired of seeing people defending this shitty healer design for so long.

Lets look into this a little closer rather than just blindly throwing opinions.

Looking at the entire log they uploaded, there's 2 key wipe points that stand out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8wMt1cU2w The first mechanic that killed them most frequently. - This isn't a heal check whatsoever, it's just a particularly precise dodging intermission.

https://youtu.be/KNEuMpgvwkY?t=754 The second mechanic that caused repeated wipes. - This is much harder to read and understand what was going wrong, I'm not sure if the group themselves has explained it? My best guess is that it's down to a sequence of mechanics that uses the healers as targets for hits that need to be soaked across 4 making it a bit of a pot shot as to whom actually gets targeted.

As an outlier it could also be LB3 generation? They need to use the LB3 to survive Ankh Afah reliably (Due to the healer having to stand alone) and they didn't cast it on any of the 4 wipes that I looked at at that point.

My opinion from this?

Eh, anyone who's paid attention to DSR knows that it was never really a healing check anyway. It's absolutely the most intense test of mechanics, precision, dps and mitigation in the game yet. But in terms of sheer healing throughput required? It's no higher than what we already see in Savage, adjust for the stat squish and it's less Damage taken per second than E12S's door boss.

IMHO it's just further evidence that SE have backed themselves into a corner with this. E12S's Door Boss was about as hard as they can push healing requirements with the toolkits we had then because of the way our MP economy and GCD healing kits are tuned. Until these aspects get a serious rethink, I don't think we'll ever see the sort of healing check that many of us are hoping for because the game simply can't support it as things stand.

If there was ever a clear sign that SE needs to make our kits more interactive within themselves, this is it IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Lets look into this a little closer rather than just blindly throwing opinions.

Looking at the entire log they uploaded, there's 2 key wipe points that stand out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8wMt1cU2w The first mechanic that killed them most frequently. - This isn't a heal check whatsoever, it's just a particularly precise dodging intermission.

https://youtu.be/KNEuMpgvwkY?t=754 The second mechanic that caused repeated wipes. - This is much harder to read and understand what was going wrong, I'm not sure if the group themselves has explained it? My best guess is that it's down to a sequence of mechanics that uses the healers as targets for hits that need to be soaked across 4 making it a bit of a pot shot as to whom actually gets targeted.

As an outlier it could also be LB3 generation? They need to use the LB3 to survive Ankh Afah reliably (Due to the healer having to stand alone) and they didn't cast it on any of the 4 wipes that I looked at at that point.

My opinion from this?

Eh, anyone who's paid attention to DSR knows that it was never really a healing check anyway. It's absolutely the most intense test of mechanics, precision, dps and mitigation in the game yet. But in terms of sheer healing throughput required? It's no higher than what we already see in Savage, adjust for the stat squish and it's less Damage taken per second than E12S's door boss.

IMHO it's just further evidence that SE have backed themselves into a corner with this. E12S's Door Boss was about as hard as they can push healing requirements with the toolkits we had then because of the way our MP economy and GCD healing kits are tuned. Until these aspects get a serious rethink, I don't think we'll ever see the sort of healing check that many of us are hoping for because the game simply can't support it as things stand.

If there was ever a clear sign that SE needs to make our kits more interactive within themselves, this is it IMHO.

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Adding on to this:

Two healers are "required" because SE puts in mechanics that specifically target healers and unnecessarily punish the group for not taking 2.

Lazy design imo.
Forcing a 2 healer mechanic in every fight so the team is forced to take a second healer, not because they need one.

I imagine solo healing would be a lot more popular if all the content worth doing didn't have a mandatory double healer check mechanic.
It literally has nothing to with the skill of the healers or the party, the game simply forces you to take a second healer if you don't want to be trolled by things like searing wind.

Honestly pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Adding on to this:

Two healers are "required" because SE puts in mechanics that specifically target healers and unnecessarily punish the group for not taking 2.

Lazy design imo.
Forcing a 2 healer mechanic in every fight so the team is forced to take a second healer, not because they need one.

I imagine solo healing would be a lot more popular if all the content worth doing didn't have a mandatory double healer check mechanic.
It literally has nothing to with the skill of the healers or the party, the game simply forces you to take a second healer if you don't want to be trolled by things like searing wind.

Honestly pathetic.

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Yep, pathetic indeed.
The two big factors for taking 2 healers into Ex and Savage are:
1) arbitrary invisible "targets two healers" mechanics.

e9s, e11s, e12s door boss are examples for this. They are impossible to reliably solve when having one healer as you cannot see who gets targeted and to whom it gets redirected if a 2nd healer isn't present. Many other bosses hat healer-targeting mechanics which can thankfully be seen (like Chain Lightning on e5s) and thus reliably be dealt with if the person targeted reacts in time. Entirely possible in pugs
That was also a reason why this team had to RNG fish. They weren't fishing for crit heals, they were fishing for the invisible healer mechanic not lawnmowing their entire party.

2) The-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

If said TSTSNBN allowed to show solo healer comp kills without switching tabs on your profile, you'd see a lot more solo healer runs. The usual argument against someone solo healing a fight if we had trouble finding a 2nd healer wasn't "No, damage is too high, it's too risky". It was "No, I want logs".

And in DF it's impossible because DF enforces it. No "Join solo healer parties for full party content" option to tick.

I especially abhor the invisible healer targetting mechanics. That is just an incredibly lazy way to enforce 2 healer comps.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

[…]And in DF it's impossible because DF enforces it. No "Join solo healer parties for full party content" option to tick.

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Reminds me that one Lucy Pyre’s comment: ”You’re just here because DF says you have to be.”

now they either nerf astro MP or they lock raid finder duties to 2 tanks 2 healers and 4 dps and just whistle

Yoshi P: play Ultimate if you want engaging content
The content: still glare spamming 50% of the time as solo healer in the hardest ultimate this game has to offer

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I will say as a super casual player that dungeons and EX fights are undertuned for healers, especially when it becomes more efficient to have less or no healers to run that content.

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I always find this take...odd. Doing HydEx as a fresh 90, healing was absolutely needed and I had to go through about as many practice parties as I did Titania before clear. Some people just have REAL problems with some mechanics. (It's like P1S - Fourfold makes perfect sense to me, but several days of PFs proved to me that it WASN'T for a lot of the other people I was getting in parties with...)

Part of this comes with comparing prog vs farm. Farming, ZodEx only needs 1 healer. Prog, I was in groups that were dying to things left and right and even some that had trouble clearing the 4 spheres add phase. In the all class/no Job stone run I did, someone even remarked we were clearing the add phase better with no Job stones than many of the early learning parties were. So part of this is that the fights are tuned about right for at level gear, prog, and the first week or three of farming. It's after that, once everyone knows the fights and the mechanics and has better gear and weapons, that they feel undertuned. But go run Coils now (considered very difficult at the time) and they'll likely be far easier, even synced, than they were at level just from the ilevel scaling alone.

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Originally Posted by Icecylee

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Honestly, you have a good take that I somewhat agree with. I DISAGREE that people *actually* mean that, though. I've seen threads from people using that to argue - and I mean this literally - that healers should be removed from the game. While MOST people in that thread had the sanity to say no to that proposal, most basically agreed with it that it means no one needs to/should take healers in 4 man runs and other content. That's not an argument of optimization or speed, it's an argument of "If it's not needed in 4 mans, that means there's something wrong with its design"; but based on that, we must conclude that DPS and Tanks in FFXIV are designed poorly as well.

Which...MAY be true. But my issue is that people aren't generally arguing that other than some peripheral arguments that self-sustain may be a BIT too high.

As we agree: That can be said of literally every role in the game at present.

EDIT:

Also, from the Reddit thread:

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They brought all the other jobs that can help heal. Paladin had like 16 clemencies, RPR for the aoe heals, DNC for curing waltz, monk for mantra, RDM had 30 vercures, even SMN had 9 physicks.

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When you have your other Jobs healing basically as much as an extra healer...

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I always find this take...odd. Doing HydEx as a fresh 90, healing was absolutely needed

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Except we have objective proof it wasn't because people literally did it with the base i570 gear everyone had access to right from the conclusion of Endwalker. Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark do such paltry damage throughout the fight you didn't need either healer. Which is the saddest state we have ever seen EX Primals. Of course, most groups weren't going to be skilled enough to get away that but it wasn't uncommon to see solo healer runs of either fight within the first few days. Even that is still terrible from an optics perspective. The optimal comp fresh into endgame content is dropping a healer.

You go on to mention some people are simply bad at mechanics, thus justifying the need for at least one healer if not two. This is precisely the problem healer mains have. Their role is only worthwhile if other people have no idea what they're doing. A good run of P1S even early on means both healers are little more than gimped DPS. In fact, I'll pull my group from day one prog. 46% and 62% of my AST and SGE's casts were on just Fall Malefic and Dosis III, respectively. This isn't omitting cards or their DoT. Therefore, the actual DPS to healing ratio would be even more comically one-sided. On that clear, we had six deaths (one being brick) and twenty-eight damage downs. That's how much of a complete joke P1S is. While yes, he's the first boss and the first tier is notoriously undertuned. This is going overboard. Two healers clearly aren't needed if you can still beat his enrage with this much of a gong show.

Tanks aren't well designed either, by the way. What puts them a step above healers is they actually have something to fall back on: DPS rotations. Even the often mocked Warrior at least has something to do that makes them feel good and engaging to play. Healers simply don't have that. If the group is half-way decent, you're a crappy DPS and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except we have objective proof it wasn't because people literally did it with the base i570 gear everyone had access to right from the conclusion of Endwalker. Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark do such paltry damage throughout the fight you didn't need either healer. Which is the saddest state we have ever seen EX Primals. Of course, most groups weren't going to be skilled enough to get away that

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That's...kind of my point. If most groups aren't able to do it, then it isn't the general situation. If most groups were still failing or just clearing with 2 healers, than suggesting that it's undertuned would be saying none of those people should have been clearing (since tuning it high enough the groups that WERE doing it with single healers likely would mean too much healing for these other groups to handle). And, again, I was talking about progression and early runs, when people HADN'T outright memorized the entire fights so they could do them in their sleep. :)

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You go on to mention some people are simply bad at mechanics, thus justifying the need for at least one healer if not two. This is precisely the problem healer mains have.

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No, I'm talking about tuning. There is an issue that as people get better, healers have progressively less to do. But the contra position is that if groups simply aren't able to clear at all early on (when mistakes are being made while learning the fight), then people won't be clearing to get content on farm in the first place.

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While yes, he's the first boss and the first tier is notoriously undertuned. This is going overboard. Two healers clearly aren't needed if you can still beat his enrage with this much of a gong show.

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I feel I've said this same thing...though I think in another thread.

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Tanks aren't well designed either, by the way. What puts them a step above healers is they actually have something to fall back on: DPS rotations. Even the often mocked Warrior at least has something to do that makes them feel good and engaging to play. Healers simply don't have that. If the group is half-way decent, you're a crappy DPS and nothing else.

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I honestly don't get this. I don't "feel good and engaging" on a Tank more than on a Healer. I find both feel good and engaging to play. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Reminds me that one Lucy Pyre’s comment: ”You’re just here because DF says you have to be.”

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It's the Warrior's world, the rest of us just live in it.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

---

It doesn't matter if I or you can do it, it shouldn't be able to happen period in the absolute hardest difficulty the game offers.

Just like tanks shouldn't be able to solo 8 mans, or healer-less runs shouldn't exist either. This is nothing more than another example of how badly the healing role is disposable and diminished.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

FOR ANYONE SAYING THIS MEANS HEALING IS TOO EASY/BROKEN:

This seems to be a REALLY advanced group min/maxing everything to a fine art/flawless science. The OP also mentions that this was their 10th attempt as RNG has to work out just right for it to be successful. [EDIT: Or 10th day of them trying to get it to work, one of the two - point is, it wasn't even possible for them unless the RNG worked out in their favor, which took several attempts to get lucky with.]

The fastest runner in the world can probably outrun several types of animals/vehicles. That doesn't mean this is common or normal.

Do NOT use exceptions that prove the rule as an argument against the rule. It makes no sense. When everyone and their dog is solo healing Ultimates, THEN we can start talking. But how many of you, here, personally have solo healed it?

Any of you?

No?

Then perhaps we shouldn't be drawing grand conclusions from this niche case...

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The reason there's any difficulty to solo healing is because of arbitrary encounter specific mechanics, it has nothing to do with healing itself being difficult. If you could mark a single DPS as the second "healer" for boss mechanic targeting purposes, it would absolutely be no problem to solo-heal every single duty in the game. The only reason it took this long is because of RNG targeting, not because you need a second healer.

Of course you will refuse to see the distinction or the problem here because you are so determined to die on this stupid hill.

Healing is too easy in contents where healers have a lot of downtime (not much healing needed) and because the dps is too simple.

However DSR solo heal doesn't necessarily support it further. There will always be exceptional players in any games that manage to do the unthinkable so I don't think we should base the general state of healers on less than 1% of player base. Most of the 99% have stated that they don't like how the 1 button dps is too simple and most contents don't require a lot of healing. So let's stop at that. SE needs to tackle that issue (which is related to normal contents damage output + healer's dps button) and NOT tuning healer in order to make DSR 100% impossible to solo heal because that would mean they base their decisions around providing a challenge for the top healers in the world while at the same time screwing other players. This is what happens with WoW Mythic. They tune Mythic raids for top raiders, leaving the other players not even touching the content because it's stupidly hard.

So yes I don't think this support your cause in wanting healing to be more challenging in general. Go lookup another games with harder difficulties, see how there are always exceptional players that look like they are bots playing without mistakes and beating the contents with ease. One extreme doesn't always support the other.