Opinion: Split all MH/OH for glam

Curious what the general opinion is around having more glam options by splitting weapons where possible between MH/OH. Seems simple, but I could see this kind of change being annoying for glam dresser and collectors though due to extra slot usage.

For sure can split: NIN, MNK, DNC, AST
Questionable due to clipping: RDM, SAM
Unlikely for obvious reasons: MCH (why no box glam?)

Also if SE had addressed this previously would be interested haven't found anything so far.

All paired weapons are a single mirrored model. Splitting them up means halving the resourses allocated to every weapon. That doesn't seem like a worthwhile trade-off.

If anything, I'd welcome a reverse where off-hand slot is removed completely. PLD can just have the weapon/shield paired and for gatherers it's just a stat stick anyway.

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Originally Posted by Myrias

[...]Seems simple[...]

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It definitely isn't. It's been brought up before and there's a lot of work that would need to be done in order to do something like this.

Definitely unlikely to happen.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

It definitely isn't. It's been brought up before and there's a lot of work that would need to be done in order to do something like this.

Definitely unlikely to happen.

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Agree it's definitely unlikely, but there could be a relatively simple way of doing it.
You introduce purely-glam versions of the offhand/left-hand weapon, level 1 with no stats or ilvl, that can be equipped in the offhand slot.
This way, the only potentially tricky part is 'hiding' the main hands version of the off-hand weapon.

This wouldn't work well for all weapons, for example although Ninja would be the prime candidate for alternative off-hand weapons, you couldn't feasibly create duplicate versions for every potential Ninja sword out there. Whereas AST, MCH, SAM, could potentially have glam-only variants of a few different card decks/battery packs/sheaths.

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Originally Posted by Myrias

Curious what the general opinion is around having more glam options by splitting weapons where possible between MH/OH.

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I definitely think they ought to, even if it ends up being just for Glamour!

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Originally Posted by Azuri

All paired weapons are a single mirrored model. Splitting them up means halving the resourses allocated to every weapon. That doesn't seem like a worthwhile trade-off.

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They don't actually seem to be. While NIN, RDM, SAM, DNC etc. weapons are all considered dual wielding, each 'hand' is a separate model!

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Originally Posted by Azuri

If anything, I'd welcome a reverse where off-hand slot is removed completely. PLD can just have the weapon/shield paired and for gatherers it's just a stat stick anyway.

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The fact that it would kill shield glamours is probably the only reason they didn't do away with PLD off-hands years ago.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Agree it's definitely unlikely, but there could be a relatively simple way of doing it.
You introduce purely-glam versions of the offhand/left-hand weapon, level 1 with no stats or ilvl, that can be equipped in the offhand slot.
This way, the only potentially tricky part is 'hiding' the main hands version of the off-hand weapon.

This wouldn't work well for all weapons, for example although Ninja would be the prime candidate for alternative off-hand weapons, you couldn't feasibly create duplicate versions for every potential Ninja sword out there. Whereas AST, MCH, SAM, could potentially have glam-only variants of a few different card decks/battery packs/sheaths.

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That would mean recoding the entire weapon system in addition to doubling the number of weapons, figuring out how you unlock/get those vanity items, explaining the system to everyone, defaulting to showing what's in the first slot if nothing is in the second slot, and so much QA work to make sure it all works with so many different areas where it could cause issues.

It would be really cool. I've seen some neat mock ups of NINs with one fire dagger and one ice dagger which was really neat. There isn't a "simple" way of doing it though and just isn't going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

The fact that it would kill shield glamours is probably the only reason they didn't do away with PLD off-hands years ago.

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That's absolutely the case. They went out of their way with special equipment purchasing systems just so people can keep their sword/shield glams.

Machinist box in general just only being one default box is a crime.

Simple isn't the right word, that's fair - but a lot of what it would take system-wise has at least been done in-game:
- stat-less weapons for glam can exist (Emperor's fist) - edit: not truly stat-less, but PLD shield has no dmg so its doable at least
- OH slot still exists thanks to crafters/gatherers and PLD.
- the NIN weapon design winner is a knife and fork set, which is not-mirrored model. To be far, we don't know if they would implement as-is but nothing implies they wouldn't

There are levels of implementation that could be done, or phased rolled out. Maybe only have OH glam slots going forward, do nothing for pre-existing skins... I don't care for the "it would be too hard" argument since its a question of value vs cost and only SE could give a real answer. Upfront would be more work but once online would be very simple to maintain.

The game is old, so there could be far-reaching implications that isn't worth it, which is where any SE response would be cool to see. I'll have to try to see if this question made it into a Q&A or similar.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

They don't actually seem to be. While NIN, RDM, SAM, DNC etc. weapons are all considered dual wielding, each 'hand' is a separate model!

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This is not a speculation. Yoshida has addressed this request in one of the Live Letters not that long ago

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Originally Posted by Azuri

All paired weapons are a single mirrored model.

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if the way textools lists weapons is accurate, this isnt actually true. not that i would ever use textools mind. im a good girl who obeys the tos.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

if the way textools lists weapons is accurate, this isnt actually true. not that i would ever use textools mind. im a good girl who obeys the tos.

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I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Yoshida had no clue how his own game works. But this at least shows his mindset on the problem.

I guess to be fair it was more along the lines of "we have a certain memory budget per character and two different weapons would eat into this budget".

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Originally Posted by Azuri

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Yoshida had no clue how his own game works. But this at least shows his mindset on the problem.

I guess to be fair it was more along the lines of "we have a certain memory budget per character and two different weapons would eat into this budget".

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from what i can see, the game calls for say "ruby tide rapier". that leads to two models, "ruby tide rapier mainhand" and "ruby tide rapier offhand".
it means that the weapon is in two pieces and CAN be changed if the dev team wanted to. but it would still take work and use extra data when storing your glamour or saving your gearset. instead of having one link to two models, you need each model as its own separate entry.

(incidentally mch appears to have an offhand. its dozens of copies of the same lunchbox lmao)

so i understand why it probably wont be changed right now, especially with the graphics overhaul soon. but its not OFF the table.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Yoshida had no clue how his own game works. But this at least shows his mindset on the problem.

I guess to be fair it was more along the lines of "we have a certain memory budget per character and two different weapons would eat into this budget".

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The mindset thing I imagine is a big driver, and really the only way to change that is to request the feature enough to get looked into and changed, so that's what I did. (looks at Living Dead...)

Regarding memory, do we know if PLD sword/shield memory budget is split to equal other single skin classes? Feels like no, but could be clever implementation strategy.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

from what i can see, the game calls for say "ruby tide rapier". that leads to two models, "ruby tide rapier mainhand" and "ruby tide rapier offhand".
it means that the weapon is in two pieces and CAN be changed if the dev team wanted to. but it would still take work and use extra data when storing your glamour or saving your gearset. instead of having one link to two models, you need each model as its own separate entry.

(incidentally mch appears to have an offhand. its dozens of copies of the same lunchbox lmao)

so i understand why it probably wont be changed right now, especially with the graphics overhaul soon. but its not OFF the table.

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what is more likely the "case" isnt that the weapons are "mirrored" in runtime, but are mirrored beforhand(there are some asymetrical dual weapons for NIN iirc???) but still use the same "stuff" to reduce drawcalls etc

Pretty sure it's mirrored at runtime. Any asymmetrical weapons basically function like OP is asking already, there's just no way for the player to interact with that aspect. My guess is because SE seemingly doesn't like off-hand items. I think they would've removed the slot from the game entirely if it wasn't for paladins.

The small amount of glamour benefit would be outweighed by the increased filling of inventory and glamour dresser space.

We just went through this whole thing of dumping HQ harvests to save the item count. Something like this would be two steps backwards.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The small amount of glamour benefit would be outweighed by the increased filling of inventory and glamour dresser space.

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So what you're saying is that if this would happen, the ensuing complaints would force them to look into improving inventory/dresser and their management too? Whoa! Then this needs to happen yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

So what you're saying is that if this would happen, the ensuing complaints would force them to look into improving inventory/dresser and their management too? Whoa! Then this needs to happen yesterday.

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You need to keep up with your news. We have 5 new plates and they're working on the dresser space.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

So what you're saying is that if this would happen, the ensuing complaints would force them to look into improving inventory/dresser and their management too? Whoa! Then this needs to happen yesterday.

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No, I'm saying they still wouldn't change the system, just pile even more things into it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You need to keep up with your news. We have 5 new plates and they're working on the dresser space.

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20 still isn't enough. There are 31 jobs/classes in the game. And unless they plan to add 2 more with each xpac (doubtful) it won't even be enough for DoW/DoM soon.

That said, if the biggest negative is "there isn't enough space!" that's not an issue with the idea. That's an issue with a totally separate system. In which case, yes, I agree. They desperately need to overhaul the glamour system.

Kicking the can down the road every 3-4 years with more wardrobe space doesn't actually solve any problems.

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Originally Posted by ZeraSkiratea

what is more likely the "case" isnt that the weapons are "mirrored" in runtime, but are mirrored beforhand(there are some asymetrical dual weapons for NIN iirc???) but still use the same "stuff" to reduce drawcalls etc

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mnk and nin symmetrical weapons are also stored as "mainhand" and "offhand" weirdly