The State of Homogenization: A New (Healer) Player's Perspective

As all of you who saw my posts may know, I have not played this game for a very long period of time. In fact, I've only been here since the middle of Shadowbringers. In the eyes of the devs, I am the target demographic. Every change they have made over the course of the game was done in the name of people like me. The mechanics were easy to learn, and I never felt like I was lost or left in the dust. Despite this, my feelings toward this game teeter on the cusp between disappointment and frustration.

When I first entered Eorzea, I was filled with wonderment. A world where I as an adventurer could be anything and everything. To finally be able to immerse myself in the classic feel of Final Fantasy from learning about my first class to the utter excitement of earning my very first job stone was nothing short of euphoric. This, the music, the story, and the boss fights were everything I wanted from a Final Fantasy game, and I immediately thrust myself into learning everything I could about my job and role. My eyes lit up at every learned ability, and new techniques such as weaving, while they proved difficult at first, filled me with pride when I finally figured them out, and at one point on the hill of progress, when I hit level 80, I thought to myself: "This is where my skills will truly be put to the test!" And as I looked up to observe the rest of the knowledge I had yet to achieve...

...I realized I was already at the peak.

I stood there for a moment in disbelief. Surely this wasn't all there was to it? I am to only press one singular spell for all content? This can't be true!

Overtime I took to learning the other jobs. Just as a quickly climbed down that hill to explore another, I was at the peak again. Every stone, every blade of grass was in the same location, only this time in different colors. All the while, I found myself performing the same dance but with the most minute of variations depending upon both job and game mode. As I sat upon the peak of the fourth hill, I began to feel as though all my efforts led up to nothing more than an illusion of choice. I was effectively punished for improving. I went to consult with others to understand the meaning behind this only to be met with the desperate cries for change that fell on deaf ears. Was this what Yoshi P wanted for people like me? Did he assume we were too foolish to take any semblance of complexity? How could such an allegedly open developer act so dismissive towards his own players? The flavor of the jobs I loved so much throughout the franchise were mere husks of themselves. What was once a magical world peeled away to reveal a sterile room of four walls. No imagination, no challenge, only accessibility for the sake of it. I didn't feel welcomed, I felt betrayed.

I write this and post this in the general forums in the hopes that a dev reads it. If you are reading this, please know that in the eyes of even a new player, this game rings hollow. The lack of creativity in job design and overall gameplay is unacceptable. We know this game can be better and that you have the resources to make it so. Listen to your newer players and listen to your veterans. Yoshi P said it himself that other games feel like the communty versus the devs. Make this the exception. Save this game from the jaws of apathy.

It’s unfortunate you didn’t get to experience healing pre-Shb. Healing used to be so fun, AST was amazing, we had all the cards and time magic and 2 sects. SCH actually had 2 diff fairies entirely, not just in looks. More dps, just far more interesting all over. They have really gutted healers bad and healer community has been screaming on deaf ears for years to no avail. Devs have ignored them entirely and continue to butcher the jobs and the game to the point it’s not fun or interesting to even new people. Are they too dumb to realize they are killing the game? Do they just not care and only care about the money? We don’t know? But as long-term players SO MANY of us share your frustration.

Now you know why so many people use this game as a socializing tool only instead of actually playing it, it's dull for the most part and classes aren't satisfying enough to make boring content enjoyable. There's only the story, which is nice. Normal modes which are for babies and harder content for dedicated ones. Nothing in between so no wonder we loiter in the hubs :-)

I think you fail to understand humans.

many years ago, things did tend to be a bit more complicated. not excessively complex mind you, but you had to think about what choices you made to get the best performance in any given metric. it was possible however, to still do the bare minimum and "get by" but fewer people did that because most people were fairly dedicated to whatever game it was.

when gaming became more mainstream, and more people came into it to pass the time. gaming itself changed. you complain about lack of complexity and naturally, the game devs and management are obviously to blame. the real blame is the influx of people, and their demands for systems they dont have to put time into and the dollar signs of in front of company stakeholders.

remembering or wanting "the good old days" will never change things in the current environment because the majority DONT WANT THAT. they are going towards a more solo experience because its a good thing to do, they are because most people dont want to play with others.. period. blame the companies, sure, for not telling people no, but also, blame the players... we.. ALL OF US... made the games what they are today.. if anyone should be called out.. its the players.

so get off your high "I am the target audience" horse. companies aim for the largest demographic.. so, if you dont like where they landed... your fellow "target audience" people brought us here.... think on that for a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jin-

Now you know why so many people use this game as a socializing tool only instead of actually playing it

---

I mean, its an MMORPG, the fact that it is used as a socializing tool is perhaps its primary reason for existence so that is a pretty weird point to make

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaoTech

Healing used to be so fun, AST was amazing, we had all the cards and time magic and 2 sects. SCH actually had 2 diff fairies entirely, not just in looks.

---

Healing was the same (it was spam 1 button for damage except on SCH), most of the AST cards were useless or sub-optimal so you were shuffling them like you do now when the symbol is wrong, the choice of fairy was mostly pointless because you just choose the best one.

once a game hits a certain level of popularity it will always cater to the worst players.

anyone who sucks before it got popular would silently move onto another but eventually there's enough of them to make a stink and since you've gotten used to the influx of popularity (and typically cash) you'll do what you can to retain them.

see: pokemon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

once a game hits a certain level of popularity it will always cater to the worst players.

anyone who sucks before it got popular would silently move onto another but eventually there's enough of them to make a stink and since you've gotten used to the influx of popularity (and typically cash) you'll do what you can to retain them.

see: pokemon.

---

I would argue WoW has catered more towards the hardcore crowd with Mythic+ and it has NOT been good for the game overall

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Healing was the same (it was spam 1 button for damage except on SCH), most of the AST cards were useless or sub-optimal so you were shuffling them like you do now when the symbol is wrong, the choice of fairy was mostly pointless because you just choose the best one.

---

Speak for yourself. I used all my cards and the other fairy. And Sch for SURE wasn't just a one button pony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

I would argue WoW has catered more towards the hardcore crowd with Mythic+ and it has NOT been good for the game overall

---

Though as a healer main I'm always a little sad that our DPS rotation could mostly be executed by one of those old-fashioned teeter-tottering bird toy things, I will point out that my beloved WildStar also explicitly and very determinedly tried to cater to hardcore players overall.

That... did not end super well.

(It wasn't the only factor, but it was a big one.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

I would argue WoW has catered more towards the hardcore crowd with Mythic+ and it has NOT been good for the game overall

---

I listened to a video with Asmongold talking about this today. He pointed out pretty much how WoW needs to also cater to the causal players in order to retain subs and not just the hardcore types.

Imo, there needs to be a balance between newcomers and veterans, along with casuals and hardcore players.

This game needs midcore content. Desperately! And the jobs need to reflect that with some being easy to pick up others being moderately difficult and then the rest being hard/challenging to master.

Can't have the game teetering too much on the easy or hard side There needs to be a balance! And unfortunately, Yoshi and the dev team may need to learn the hard way on why not to cater too much to a singular demographic of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Though as a healer main I'm always a little sad that our DPS rotation could mostly be executed by one of those old-fashioned teeter-tottering bird toy things, I will point out that my beloved WildStar also explicitly and very determinedly tried to cater to hardcore players overall.

That... did not end super well.

(It wasn't the only factor, but it was a big one.)

---

My thought on Wildstar is they wanted to capture the segment of players that liked big time sinks or coordination efforts like guild attunement. they wanted the people who sunk 8-10 hour days into EQ and WoW, and liked the challenging of herding cats into a 54 man, or bigger, raid where the challenges were much more organizational/tactical then "skill". This is a niche market for sure, but certainly existed during Wildstar's launch time

It also used a much more intense combat system, closer to a "skill" based combat vs a tab target one. The market for this continues to be overestimated, much like the market for hardcore PvP MMORPGs. But this market certainly existed then and still does.

The problem is, combat like Wildstar's doesnt lend itself to the long play times that Wildstar was also targeting. So the intersection of these two markets was small.

Definitely a game that would have done well going after a different market

Cool housing too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

I think you fail to understand humans.

many years ago, things did tend to be a bit more complicated. not excessively complex mind you, but you had to think about what choices you made to get the best performance in any given metric. it was possible however, to still do the bare minimum and "get by" but fewer people did that because most people were fairly dedicated to whatever game it was.

when gaming became more mainstream, and more people came into it to pass the time. gaming itself changed. you complain about lack of complexity and naturally, the game devs and management are obviously to blame. the real blame is the influx of people, and their demands for systems they dont have to put time into and the dollar signs of in front of company stakeholders.

remembering or wanting "the good old days" will never change things in the current environment because the majority DONT WANT THAT. they are going towards a more solo experience because its a good thing to do, they are because most people dont want to play with others.. period. blame the companies, sure, for not telling people no, but also, blame the players... we.. ALL OF US... made the games what they are today.. if anyone should be called out.. its the players.

so get off your high "I am the target audience" horse. companies aim for the largest demographic.. so, if you dont like where they landed... your fellow "target audience" people brought us here.... think on that for a bit.

---

Dang, that's a lot of words for a Glarebot. I'm impressed.

Welcome op, welcome. Take a seat and grab something from the buffet, do you want something to drink while you get told "go play ultimate" and "healers should heal" ? (this is a joke)

To be honest, yes this it. Yoshida made healing for people that dont want to heal or even play the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

I mean, its an MMORPG, the fact that it is used as a socializing tool is perhaps its primary reason for existence so that is a pretty weird point to make

---

Yet Square seems to go in the opposite direction xD

Sounds like you should go play a different game. Not every game is meant for every person... if you don't enjoy the way this game injects variety into the gameplay experience, then this game probably isn't the right one for you. *shrugs* Not a big deal really.

And I just wanna point out... if you go far enough down the 'oversimplifying your descriptions' rabbit hole, every video game ever sounds exactly the same.

"I push a few buttons and my character does stuff on screen".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

Sounds like you should go play a different game.

---

Wow.. that didn't take long to be said... is this the new lazy buzz phrase of argument on these forums lately?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Wow.. that didn't take long to be said... is this the new lazy buzz phrase of argument on these forums lately?

---

New? Most FFXIV players can't even imagine what the game would be like if it were different from how it is now because they're new and 99% of coverage of ff14 is positive to an outrageous degree that is IMO completely unjustified, or if they're not new they're so bought into EVERYTHING the dev team does because in their eyes they can do no wrong, even though they've shown quite a bit recently (and in the past) that they change stuff for the worse regularly, or in general just seem disconnected from what players actually want, and just push for more homogenization (see: hissatsu kaiten removal, trick attack/mug change, everything they've done with healers/most jobs in general since shadowbringers)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuritzkale

New? Most FFXIV players can't even imagine what the game would be like if it were different from how it is now because they're new and 99% of coverage of ff14 is positive to an outrageous degree that is IMO completely unjustified, or if they're not new they're so bought into EVERYTHING the dev team does because in their eyes they can do no wrong, even though they've shown quite a bit recently (and in the past) that they change stuff for the worse regularly, or in general just seem disconnected from what players actually want, and just push for more homogenization (see: hissatsu kaiten removal, trick attack/mug change, everything they've done with healers/most jobs in general since shadowbringers)

---

It truly is like a colt religion of the almighty SE with Yoshi as their savior leader. I get the game is blowing up enough to where it's often the most tweeted game and all but wow... it just impresses me everytime I see that strong level of dismissal as if they never had something to be passionate about in life and be able to criticize it so it can continue to improve...

It's got to be a discord group that is telling each other to say this on the forums to rile people up, right? RIGHT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuritzkale

New? Most FFXIV players can't even imagine what the game would be like if it were different from how it is now because they're new and 99% of coverage of ff14 is positive to an outrageous degree that is IMO completely unjustified, or if they're not new they're so bought into EVERYTHING the dev team does because in their eyes they can do no wrong, even though they've shown quite a bit recently (and in the past) that they change stuff for the worse regularly, or in general just seem disconnected from what players actually want, and just push for more homogenization (see: hissatsu kaiten removal, trick attack/mug change, everything they've done with healers/most jobs in general since shadowbringers)

---

Or they either simply like the changes or don't care and continue to support it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaoTech

It’s unfortunate you didn’t get to experience healing pre-Shb. Healing used to be so fun, AST was amazing, we had all the cards and time magic and 2 sects. SCH actually had 2 diff fairies entirely, not just in looks. More dps, just far more interesting all over. They have really gutted healers bad and healer community has been screaming on deaf ears for years to no avail. Devs have ignored them entirely and continue to butcher the jobs and the game to the point it’s not fun or interesting to even new people. Are they too dumb to realize they are killing the game? Do they just not care and only care about the money? We don’t know? But as long-term players SO MANY of us share your frustration.

---

To put the situation in a nutshell, healers are designed to appeal to people who, for the most part, don't even want to play a healer in an attempt to drawing more people to the role, without realizing - or perhaps caring - that veteran healers, those who actually like to play healers, are simultaneously leaving - they're not expanding the healer population, just.... cycling through it?

If you find healing boring, you should play and experience Savage/Ultimate content as a healer. If the devs didn't simplify healing, it would lead to a very large pool of players being very ineffective at healing to the point that ppl probably wouldnt be able to complete normal mode content reliably

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AetherStar_26

If you find healing boring, you should play and experience Savage/Ultimate

---

Tell me then, why should we be bored in 95 percent of the content then? It’s such an asinine argument to be making especially since savage and ultimate still fall under their fight design meaning that the fights and the damage done in those fights are scripted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Healing was the same (it was spam 1 button for damage except on SCH), most of the AST cards were useless or sub-optimal so you were shuffling them like you do now when the symbol is wrong, the choice of fairy was mostly pointless because you just choose the best one.

---

Keep your 'suboptimal' to yourself, please.
I'm not playing that game. I don't approach my gaming experience with an excel spreadsheet. And I never thought I'd say this, but I enjoy PvP. And you know why? Because I actually feel like I have an identity. If SE starts to homogenise PvP I'm out. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AetherStar_26

If you find healing boring, you should play and experience Savage/Ultimate content as a healer. If the devs didn't simplify healing, it would lead to a very large pool of players being very ineffective at healing to the point that ppl probably wouldnt be able to complete normal mode content reliably

---

Plenty of healers do that and guess what?

Pressing Dosis for 200 times a fight is just as boring in savage as it is in normal content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AetherStar_26

If you find healing boring, you should play and experience Savage/Ultimate content as a healer. If the devs didn't simplify healing, it would lead to a very large pool of players being very ineffective at healing to the point that ppl probably wouldnt be able to complete normal mode content reliably

---

Go click on to the second quote I have in my signature and read that whole post. That is my response.

Also this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ASkellington

My response to "go do ultimate" is,

okay, so when do healers get to automatically start at the level cap of each expansion since it seems you do not want us to enjoy the other 90% of the game?

I have done the MSQ as a CNJ to WHM to AST when I got to HW and stayed AST all the way to EW. It is boring. Doing solo duties when you only have 2 abilities (4, now I guess with the occasional Lord of Crowns and ES) is beyond tedious. And unlike ESO where they get to have the excuse of "play magical dps until group content" CNJ doesn't get to do that until 15.

Saying to "play dps to get to MSQ" doesn't wholly disregard the fact that if I want to play a healer I got to level it. Y'know. Dungeon content? Or Deep Dungeon content? Or Fates? All of which are boring on healer if you have a competent group.

---

Bottom line is no class in this game should only find fun at the highest tiers of difficulty.

Healer as a role needs to be fixed whether the devs like it or not. We have 2 dps options for the most part for 86 levels and not enough damage being dealt because SE doesn't want to stress out healers to make our 8-10 healing buttons worth a damn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Wow.. that didn't take long to be said... is this the new lazy buzz phrase of argument on these forums lately?

---

Not meaning to be dismissive or tell him 'just go away and never ask for change'... but the game is what it is. They're never going to make this game Lost Ark. It's just not going to happen. The devs are very clearly content with the type of combat design they have(and they have an audience of players who appreciate what it is)... and trying to get them to reinvent the wheel to turn this game into something it isn't is futile.

Sometimes the best decision you can make is to recognize when what a game is... isn't right for you and move on. And if a game's fundamental combat design from the ground up is really that boring to you... maybe that's the lesson you should take away from it.

Edit: And to be clear, I am not saying that no changes should be made to healing. I've said on-stream as well as in other posts recently on the forums that I'd love if they added a little bit of extra variance to the moment to moment gameplay of healing. But... they're never going to make this game into what other MMOs do for combat. Because that's not what this game is. It's going to be rotational, it's going to be fairly - to use the most polite term - stable. Because that's how they keep things balanced. The variance in this game is not primarily in the moment to moment act of playing your class but in interacting with the mechanics of the boss. And that's an acquired taste that not everyone is going to like. And if you don't... you're not wrong for not liking it... but the game may not be right for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

they're never going to make this game into what other MMOs do for combat. Because that's not what this game is. It's going to be rotational, it's going to be fairly - to use the most polite term - stable. Because that's how they keep things balanced. The variance in this game is not primarily in the moment to moment act of playing your class but in interacting with the mechanics of the boss. And that's an acquired taste that not everyone is going to like. And if you don't... you're not wrong for not liking it... but the game may not be right for you.

---

Nobody is asking the devs to turn this game into something it isn't. Nobody is asking for the game to not be "rotational", they're asking for the game to be more like what it once was, before shadowbringers (and then endwalker) completely gutted multiple jobs and entire roles. And if not that, at least some variety in gameplay. There can be difficult and easy jobs, and they don't have to take jobs that WERE complex and took some thinking to use properly and turn them braindead (like summoner). And I don't know how you can say variance in gameplay in ff14 is supposed to be from interacting with the mechanics of bosses, because the VAST MAJORITY of the content in this game is braindead easy, and there are jobs (really just BLM atm) that show that the devs CAN make variance in gameplay come from the moment to moment act of playing your job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Healing was the same (it was spam 1 button for damage except on SCH), most of the AST cards were useless or sub-optimal so you were shuffling them like you do now when the symbol is wrong, the choice of fairy was mostly pointless because you just choose the best one.

---

Selene's Fey Wind may have not been good but what I wouldn't give for an AoE esuna again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

Not meaning to be dismissive or tell him 'just go away and never ask for change'

---

And yet, you know that you are, in fact, being... well, that. Which I have a problem with, especially when you say things like:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

if you don't enjoy the way this game injects variety into the gameplay experience

---

meanwhile the issue that we're having is that we don't have enough variety to support the gameplay experience for quite a few supposedly-required players in this MMO. The lack of variety in PvE is a major reason people are so excited and pleased with PVP as of 6.1, despite balancing issues and difficulty spikes of playing PvP.

Even if you want to try and argue that the "gameplay experience" has "variety" in that players can "choose to play a job," it's not enough to just stick something into the game for the sake of having it. It has to be supported and developed, otherwise the "variety" is just slapped-on and unenjoyable. I've seen many other games, MMO or otherwise, get review-bombed for "tacked on" experiences, and I know that there are many people out there that would not forgive that, so I don't understand why we're just supposed to be ok with when they decide to neglect their "gameplay experience" to the point of turning everything into sticky note levels of tacked-on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaoTech

It’s unfortunate you didn’t get to experience healing pre-Shb. Healing used to be so fun, AST was amazing, we had all the cards and time magic and 2 sects

---

Having the knowledge of how AST operates back in pre-ShB is both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because I had fun back then and fond memories of that time; a curse because seeing how gutted the job is now (same cards, no time magic) just make me want to lie down in a ditch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

And yet, you know that you are, in fact, being... well, that. Which I have a problem with, especially when you say things like:


meanwhile the issue that we're having is that we don't have enough variety to support the gameplay experience for quite a few supposedly-required players in this MMO. The lack of variety in PvE is a major reason people are so excited and pleased with PVP as of 6.1, despite balancing issues and difficulty spikes of playing PvP.

Even if you want to try and argue that the "gameplay experience" has "variety" in that players can "choose to play a job," it's not enough to just stick something into the game for the sake of having it. It has to be supported and developed, otherwise the "variety" is just slapped-on and unenjoyable. I've seen many other games, MMO or otherwise, get review-bombed for "tacked on" experiences, and I know that there are many people out there that would not forgive that, so I don't understand why we're just supposed to be ok with when they decide to neglect their "gameplay experience" to the point of turning everything into sticky note levels of tacked-on.

---

No, I'm not. I'm telling the OP that, quite simply, their problems with this game seem - at least from the outset - to be the game itself.

It'd be like me telling From Software to change Elden Ring. My problems with that game are so systemic and intrinsic to what it is, that me complaining about it is pointless. The game is just not for me. So I don't give them that feedback or tell them to change it. I just don't play it. And I play other things.

This game is not homogenized. It is systemically stable. A lot of people mistake 'having similar basic tools' for homogenization, but it's not. White Mage and Astro play dramatically differently overall. Sage and Scholar even more differently than that. Even the most 'commonly complained about' cases of homogenization - Dark Knight and Warrior - feel significantly different in their theme, their style, and the focus. Sure, they have some basic rotational similarities and similar functioning tools... but that's how the devs manage to have 15+ classes in a game where the hardest content is groups of 8 without having certain classes be just systematically excluded from raiding entirely. They give them the basic functioning tools to work and then add flavour in terms of unique abilities, the animations, the story, and the nuance of their gameplay systems(job gauge, ogcds, unique cooldowns, etc.).

That isn't to say anything is perfect... there's definitely room for improvement. But... if your problem is the game itself, then the changes needed to make you happy would basically require reinventing the wheel. And a lot of people are MOSTLY (or at least largely) happy with the wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

No, I'm not. I'm telling the OP that, quite simply, their problems with this game seem - at least from the outset - to be the game itself.

It'd be like me telling From Software to change Elden Ring. My problems with that game are so systemic and intrinsic to what it is, that me complaining about it is pointless. The game is just not for me. So I don't give them that feedback or tell them to change it. I just don't play it. And I play other things.

This game is not homogenized. It is systemically stable. A lot of people mistake 'having similar basic tools' for homogenization, but it's not. White Mage and Astro play dramatically differently overall. Sage and Scholar even more differently than that. Even the most 'commonly complained about' cases of homogenization - Dark Knight and Warrior - feel significantly different in their theme, their style, and the focus. Sure, they have some basic rotational similarities and similar functioning tools... but that's how the devs manage to have 15+ classes in a game where the hardest content is groups of 8 without having certain classes be just systematically excluded from raiding entirely. They give them the basic functioning tools to work and then add flavour in terms of unique abilities, the animations, the story, and the nuance of their gameplay systems(job gauge, ogcds, unique cooldowns, etc.).

That isn't to say anything is perfect... there's definitely room for improvement. But... if your problem is the game itself, then the changes needed to make you happy would basically require reinventing the wheel. And a lot of people are MOSTLY (or at least largely) happy with the wheel.

---

you do realize u have 70% identical skills in every one of the healers? they each have almost identical spells and skills in their healing and dps spells.
that is not a base kit if every one of your spells is copy pasted in another with no variance across all jobs in said role. you can have the same identical hotbar for each healer and it will play the same. except maybe ast but they suffer from button bloat that SE decided to create for them cause reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

you do realize u have 70% identical skills in every one of the healers? they each have almost identical spells and skills in their healing and dps spells.
that is not a base kit if every one of your spells is copy pasted in another with no variance across all jobs in said role. you can have the same identical hotbar for each healer and it will play the same. except maybe ast but they suffer from button bloat that SE decided to create for them cause reasons.

---

So let's compare WhM/Astro, which are the two who share the most in terms of role.
Cure 1, Cure 2, and Medica have identical counterparts. Glare and Dia have nearly identical abilities.

That's... it, actually(aside from role actions). Essential Dignity is fairly similar to Tetragrammaton, but not identical.Celestial Intersection is fairly similar to Divine Benison, but again not identical.

So no, it's not a copy paste.

There are abiltiies that serve the same role in different ways - ex. Earthly Star and Assize serve similar roles, so could be put on the same bar, but aren't identical. Medica 2 vs Aspected Helios, again. Similar, but not identical. But you have to be REALLY reductive to say 'these abilities are identical'.

Oh and raise. But... that's basically a role action.

Please provide me any abilities I didn't mention above that White Mage has that any other healer has word for word identical. I can't think of any.

That's weird (or normal). My perspective as a healer is entirely different. My main healer is SCH, and I'm using plenty of buttons. And I notice quite the difference between healing as SCH and healing as WHM. One relies on shields and has more AoE heals. The other has big single-target heals including the "oh ****" Benediction.

Personally, I love the idea of classes being easy to learn, with the "difficulty" becoming finding those select ways to master it that give you the slight bump you might need for something like EX, but where you're able to just engage with pretty much any regular ole' content you want. And if it means anything to you, I've been playing since 2015.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

I would argue WoW has catered more towards the hardcore crowd with Mythic+ and it has NOT been good for the game overall

---

hardcore means nothing when you have 509 addons that play the game for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

So let's compare WhM/Astro, which are the two who share the most in terms of role.
Cure 1, Cure 2, and Medica have identical counterparts. Glare and Dia have nearly identical abilities.

That's... it, actually(aside from role actions). Essential Dignity is fairly similar to Tetragrammaton, but not identical.Celestial Intersection is fairly similar to Divine Benison, but again not identical.

So no, it's not a copy paste.

There are abiltiies that serve the same role in different ways - ex. Earthly Star and Assize serve similar roles, so could be put on the same bar, but aren't identical. Medica 2 vs Aspected Helios, again. Similar, but not identical. But you have to be REALLY reductive to say 'these abilities are identical'.

Oh and raise. But... that's basically a role action.

Please provide me any abilities I didn't mention above that White Mage has that any other healer has word for word identical. I can't think of any.

---

regen and aspected benefic.
medica 2 and aspected helios.
glare and dia are identical to combust and malefic the only thing different is potencies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

regen and aspected benefic.
medica 2 and aspected helios.

---

An upfront heal + heal over time is identical to JUST a heal over time?

I think you're reaching here, my friend.

Edit: And this actually points to my problem with the 'homogenization' argument. People who complain of homogenization tend to be VERY reductive. Which goes back to one of the first things I said in this thread:

If you are reductive enough, everything is similar. An orange is the same as a chocolate bar if all you care about is that they're both edible. A car and a skyscraper are identical if you just reduce them to 'metal frame with stuff inside'.


Edit: I had originally had a bit about Medica 2 in there, but I had forgotten that Helios is just much faster and cheaper, not instant. (Not going to erase my mistake, just correct it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elesh

So you're saying an instant heal and one with a cast time are identical?
An upfront heal + heal over time is identical to JUST a heal over time?

I think you're reaching here, my friend.

---

i think you are trying to ignore the similarities here my friend not me reaching.

also what cast time... both regen and aspected benefic are instant cast.

wow you really try to ignore the bluntant similarities, dont you?