Healers Exist for DPS fun only?

Thoughts?

I'm starting to get the feeling, even going to tanks, that the other two roles besides DPS exist to solely and completely facilitate their fun.

Ours and tanks, starting in ShB, is second thought.

This title made me think you meant that healers exist only to do dps becuase that's what makes healers fun. I thought it was a bold new take on how enjoyable our current dps kits are. I would have to say for the actual topic tho that all the roles were intended initially to be fun. You can see from the way the classes were designed in ARR that every role had some complexity. Even WHM had Stoneskin, Cleric Stance, and a lot of utility in fluid Aura plus actually had to be careful with managing MP and enmity. The delay on Benediction as their only instant heal said a lot about how high the expectations were for a skilled healer. You needed to be able to predict and time your cast for the majority of the fight and your only emergency skill still needed foresight to be effective. It was way more complex than what we have now where you can oGCD your way thru almost anything and never once look at your mp as WHM. The problem seems to be that over time the developers realized that high stakes roles like healing and tanking were inevitably going to cause wipes by unskilled players being terrible and instead of creating exhuastive tutorials and training missions for these roles they decided to lower the skill ceiling. Bad players are still bad one nerf after another tho and we ended up here with one dps button and a ton of redundant healing skills. As long as the focus is catering to terrible players instead of creating better players we're going to continue this downward spiral in design. Nowhere in the game is a tank swap ever explained. No healer missions require you to use Surecast, Swiftcast, or Rescue. Slidecasting is not only possible but required to optimize and also never acknowledged. Im still shocked we arent told to always be casting as a general rule. Sadly I only expect the skill ceiling to comtinue to fall.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

This title made me think you meant that healers exist only to do dps becuase that's what makes healers fun. I thought it was a bold new take on how enjoyable our current dps kits are. I would have to say for the actual topic tho that all the roles were intended initially to be fun. You can see from the way the classes were designed in ARR that every role had some complexity. Even WHM had Stoneskin, Cleric Stance, and a lot of utility in fluid Aura plus actually had to be careful with managing MP and enmity. The delay on Benediction as their only instant heal said a lot about how high the expectations were for a skilled healer. You needed to be able to predict and time your cast for the majority of the fight and your only emergency skill still needed foresight to be effective. It was way more complex than what we have now where you can oGCD your way thru almost anything and never once look at your mp as WHM. The problem seems to be that over time the developers realized that high stakes roles like healing and tanking were inevitably going to cause wipes by unskilled players being terrible and instead of creating exhuastive tutorials and training missions for these roles they decided to lower the skill ceiling. Bad players are still bad one nerf after another tho and we ended up here with one dps button and a ton of redundant healing skills. As long as the focus is catering to terrible players instead of creating better players we're going to continue this downward spiral in design.

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Making things easier is always and I mean ALWAYS the worst option one can decide to go through with. Players will just put in less effort and still cause wipes while also pushing away those who enjoyed the role.

So yeah I agree, mandatory tutorials are a must instead of hand holding terrible players.

With Shadowbringers it definitely feels like it, although the reason is probably that what they want healers to do is disconnected from what players want and what's truly happening in game.

This whole thread reeks of bitter paranoia.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

This whole thread reeks of bitter paranoia.

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Not entirely. It's been pretty apparent they put far greater emphasis on the DPS jobs than tanks and healers. Now I don't necessarily think it's to facilitate more for DPS players but rather a misguided perception people aren't playing tanks and healers due to them being too difficult. Everything about Shadowbringers' design seems to follow this assumption: that if only the roles were more approachable, people will want to play them.

To the surprise of absolutely no one except the dev team, that didn't work. Many people who dislike playing tank and healers weren't necessarily intimated by the role but simply dislike the added responsibility. Or they prefer just focusing on their damage and more robust rotation than managing health bars and CDs. Meanwhile, the players who actually liked these roles felt slighted—with several moving on.

One of my core complaints with Shadowbringers is the dev team seemed to prioritize getting new players to try out different jobs instead of making their existing playerbase happy.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

This whole thread reeks of bitter paranoia.

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The healer slide in the job action liveletter leading up to ShB was skipped over hastily, and healers weren't mentioned at all during that presentation, as well as only having one side compared to the few for tanks and the numerous for DPS.

Healer criticisms were ignored during 5.0.0, and despite a QA being filled with questions on healers at the time, they refused to answer any healer questions and instead chose to talk about inane shit like if the Exarch actually made those sandwiches the WoL gets during the MSQ.

The healer forums have been a dumpster fire for two years and full of complaints about these changes, even on JP and ESPECIALLY on NA. It got so bad on NA that JP players started pointing it out to the devs how much of a shitfest it was, to no avail.

Every change made this expac for healers has served to dumb them down further, and is done under the pretense of "encouraging healing", revealing a complete misunderstanding on how the devs think healers should play.

Healers have gotten repetitive gear designs this whole expac, robe after robe after robe after robe, most of them shit, too. The variety of previous expacs is gone and is lost in a sea of feminine robes and priest outfits.

The myriad complaints have basically been ignored entirely, for TWO YEARS, and then when they finally announce a new healer the devs said they struggled to develop for it and are basically winging it. And then the Job trailer is just Benefic, Asp. Benefic, Malefic, and Gravity with a full cast-time. The VERY BASIC ROOT OF A CURRENT HEALER KIT AND THE SHIT THAT EVERYONE IS SICK OF, just another 111111111111111 class by that showcase.

It's no wonder people expect poor understanding at best and maliciousness at worst. Leaning toward maliciousness with how the devs ignore all the criticism and even go against the criticism by telling players to "focus on healing" in patch notes, in complete contrast with how their own game plays.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Thoughts?

I'm starting to get the feeling, even going to tanks, that the other two roles besides DPS exist to solely and completely facilitate their fun.

Ours and tanks, starting in ShB, is second thought.

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I'm not sure I follow, how are those roles there for the DPSes fun?
What those roles do doesn't make the DPS perform differently. They're not changing DPS gameplay.
Do you mean they facilitate DPS fun because those two roles stand more firmly between the party and a wipe?
That they're there to keep the party up so the DPS can keep pushing buttons?

Because a good tank/healer can only do so much to stop you from dying to that mechanic you just botched.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I'm not sure I follow, how are those roles there for the DPSes fun?
What those roles do doesn't make the DPS perform differently. They're not changing DPS gameplay.
Do you mean they facilitate DPS fun because those two roles stand more firmly between the party and a wipe?
That they're there to keep the party up so the DPS can keep pushing buttons?

Because a good tank/healer can only do so much to stop you from dying to that mechanic you just botched.

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They mean the last part, that healers are being designed to just be there to babysit the DPS to make sure they don't die. In other words, Solely existing to facilitate the fun of the DPS and fill queues.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

They mean the last part, that healers are being designed to just be there to babysit the DPS to make sure they don't die. In other words, Solely existing to facilitate the fun of the DPS and fill queues.

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What a weird take, given that healers primarily interact with tanks.

I don't find dpsing on healers fun.

I also don't think healers only facilitate dps fun. My fun as a healer comes when shit hits the fan and we barely survive.

Alas, that doesn't happen much here.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Making things easier is always and I mean ALWAYS the worst option one can decide to go through with. Players will just put in less effort and still cause wipes while also pushing away those who enjoyed the role.

So yeah I agree, mandatory tutorials are a must instead of hand holding terrible players.

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I've always played a healer, but recently created an alt who is just a tank/dps, and I'm honestly developing whitemagephobia at this point, specially because I know they can do better, they just don't want to

(and no, I don't mean low level dungeons like Totorak, or those that like letting tanks drop to <20% HP before healing, I mean WHMs in Bardams or above that only uses Cures, not even lilies)

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

What a weird take, given that healers primarily interact with tanks.

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To be fair, tanks are the ones who inherently need healing, whereas the dps are the ones getting babied in that sense because more often than not, if they need healing is because they step in bad.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Thoughts?

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I've been thinking and saying as much since the Media Tour presented prior to the release of the Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

To be fair, tanks are the ones who inherently need healing, whereas the dps are the ones getting babied in that sense because more often than not, if they need healing is because they step in bad.

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Do tanks and healers not need extra attention if they step in bad?

You are confusing inexperienced players with a role. Anyone making a mistake such as 'standing in bad' requires additional attention.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Do tanks and healers not need extra attention if they step in bad?

You are confusing inexperienced players with a role. Anyone making a mistake such as 'standing in bad' requires additional attention.

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So it's not a problem about babysitting DPS so they have fun, it's about being there for anyone when they make mistakes.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

So it's not a problem about babysitting DPS so they have fun, it's about being there for anyone when they make mistakes.

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I can assure you, outside of trolling friends, you're going to have remarkably little fun eating unavoidable damage, on any job, except for perhaps Dark Knight.

This game absolutely does not believe in the mantra of "Stand in fire, DPS higher". Tanks do not gain resource from taking damage. No DPS gains resource from taking damage. Healers do not gain resource from healing more damage opposed to utilizing specific skills, which in turn do not provide more based on how much they healed, but rather that they were used.

They, the developers, are actively designing away from the idea that 'healers adjust' by removing vuln stacks and replacing them with damage downs.

The notion that a healer exists only to babysit other players to let them have fun is flawed on basically every level of play outside beginners.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I can assure you, outside of trolling friends, you're going to have remarkably little fun eating unavoidable damage, on any job, except for perhaps Dark Knight.

This game absolutely does not believe in the mantra of "Stand in fire, DPS higher". Tanks do not gain resource from taking damage. No DPS gains resource from taking damage. Healers do not gain resource from healing more damage opposed to utilizing specific skills, which in turn do not provide more based on how much they healed, but rather that they were used.

They, the developers, are actively designing away from the idea that 'healers adjust' by removing vuln stacks and replacing them with damage downs.

The notion that a healer exists only to babysit other players to let them have fun is flawed on basically every level of play outside beginners.

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That's... a compelling post and I find myself unable to argue against it (not that I was trying to argue here).
Well said.
Maybe if more DPS had moves like SAM's Third Eye things would be different, but I think you're pretty on the money.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Do tanks and healers not need extra attention if they step in bad?

You are confusing inexperienced players with a role. Anyone making a mistake such as 'standing in bad' requires additional attention.

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No, what I meant is that a tank getting damaged is part of their role, while dps mostly aren't, and our job as healers is to watch over when they do get damaged, either due to inexperience, latency, or even trolling, hence "babysitting" (which I probably should've put in quotation marks the first time). The issue at hand though, is that while healing as a role in on itself works as the safety net of the group, it doesn't mean they exist solely to heal in raids, let alone justifies being treated as second class players, if not outright ignored, which is what's been happening as of late.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

No, what I meant is [...]

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Ah, this reminds me of another healer conversation (oh hey, it was also one with Kabooa~).

Thread:https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...BD#post5605527

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I have a story. It'll be kinda long, but I'll see if it resonates at all with XIV's forum healer enthusiasts and the relationship we have with the way the development team views healers.

Once there was a tabletop RPG called Pathfinder. Its first edition had been out for a while, and the designers began work on a second. Now, while tabletop RPGs have an infinite amount of creativity inherent in them (as you can homebrew or change rules wherever your group pleases), officially-run games are a different beast. The person running the game has to abide by the base rules in the core book. A part of this includes ingame stores; you can't restrict player access to items that are present in the core rulebook. When players level up, they get points to use on buying items and can buy whatever they want. The point of bringing this up is, if the game designers don't like something about how this works, the normal answer you give the average player of "just change the rules you don't like" doesn't apply. They'd have to design the behavior out of the core rules.

One of the behaviors that the game designers -really- wanted to do away with was the infamous Wand of Cure Light Wounds. It became a staple to buy a few on hitting level 2. Players would grab some wands, then spam healing spells as needed between combat to patch back up and keep going. The initially proposed solution to this was a brand new system for interacting with enchanted items that severely curtailed the number of times you could use a wand in a day. There was a discussion about this among some long-term fans that got really interesting. Summarizing it:

Players didn't decide to start buying these wands out of thin air. They started doing it because it was a logical thing to do. If you stop me from using wands, I'll tell you exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to town and finding a group of NPC clerics for hire. I won't even ask their names. I'll call them Cumbersome Wand of Cure Light Wounds numbers one through five and pay them to sit outside in a wagon, then spam healing spells on our group between fights. The problem with this solution here is that the game designers are punishing the players for finding a shortcut solution they don't like to the real problem. You know why players are opting to buy healing wands? Because healing gameplay design isn't fun. Outside roleplaying reasons, basically nobody plays this game for the pulse-pounding thrill of loading up their daily slots with Cure spells and playing the health battery pack for the rest of the party between pulls. You don't need a warm body to fill this function; you could basically script it if it were a game we played online. Conveniently, since this entire role can be replaced with a wand, the players can choose classes with more fun and interactive design while not losing the important ability to heal themselves up after a fight. Make clerics fun and attractive to play without reducing their ability to keep the party alive, then you've solved the problem.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

No, what I meant is that a tank getting damaged is part of their role, while dps mostly aren't, and our job as healers is to watch over when they do get damaged, either due to inexperience, latency, or even trolling, hence "babysitting" (which I probably should've put in quotation marks the first time). The issue at hand though, is that while healing as a role in on itself works as the safety net of the group, it doesn't mean they exist solely to heal in raids, let alone justifies being treated as second class players, if not outright ignored, which is what's been happening as of late.

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Taking avoidable damage is part of no one's role, which is the specific scenario you painted out.

Dealing with unavoidable damage is the healer's purpose. That is why they exist. They do not exist to deal damage - They do varying amounts of it from system to system, but that isn't why they are there. They are there to deal with the damage you cannot avoid. They do not exist to focus the damage output of a superior enemy on to themselves and minimize it with superior defenses.

Contrary to what you are saying, the only reason the healer archetype exists is so that enemies can deal damage greater than your party's total health and not have it end in defeat.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Taking avoidable damage is part of no one's role, which is the specific scenario you painted out.

Dealing with unavoidable damage is the healer's purpose. That is why they exist. They do not exist to deal damage - They do varying amounts of it from system to system, but that isn't why they are there. They are there to deal with the damage you cannot avoid. They do not exist to focus the damage output of a superior enemy on to themselves and minimize it with superior defenses.

Contrary to what you are saying, the only reason the healer archetype exists is so that enemies can deal damage greater than your party's total health and not have it end in defeat.

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Either we're just not seeing eye to eye, or you're advocating that the current state of healers is good, if not ideal [might as well remove our one dps spell then?]. Either way I don't have the communication skills nor mood to keep a conversation that's apparently going nowhere, so let's just agree to disagree.

Since you are having trouble, I will make the effort to simplify this for you.

Inexperienced players are in every role. Anyone taking extra damage requires additional attention (AKA being "Babied") and it is not limited to the DPS.

"Tanks" absolutely do not take avoidable damage as part of their role, beyond fight specific uptime optimizations. Neither do "Healers", and especially not the "DPS".

Healing, as a role in FF14, is not about being a 'safety net'. It is literally about countering the damage the enemy puts out that other roles cannot recover from. That isn't a safety net. A safety net would be a system in which ALL damage is avoidable, ALL characters have a means of restoring their own health despite their load outs, and thus someone SPECIFICALLY loading up to HEAL other allies is a safety net.

Examples of this include but are not limited to Monster Hunter, Diablo, most of the Action oriented RPGs, and even baseline singleplayer Final Fantasy, because Potions are useful.

In order for Healing to be a safety net in FF14, all characters would need a baseline ability to restore their health such that no enemy could kill them with unavoidable damage. This only exists in very niche and well coordinated set ups in the content that the game is actually tuned around.

Effectively everything below Savage, nothing is required. You don't need healers, you don't need tanks, you don't need DPS. Take 8 of basically anything and you will win. (Except All Melee or all PRanged.)

Consider the following as a thought exercise.

If all damage were avoidable, would you play a healer at any point in FF14's history?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Healing, as a role in FF14, is not about being a 'safety net'. It is literally about countering the damage the enemy puts out that other roles cannot recover from. That isn't a safety net.

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You're right, that's not a safety net, but... I also don't think think the most accurate term for what I think they're thinking.

You're right. Healing is about countering the damage the enemy puts out.
But... (and correct me if I'm wrong Allegor, though I see you're trying to gracefully withdraw) it sounds like the frustration stems from that being basically all healers do in FF14. They have broil, a dot, and then a boat load of "You're not dead yet" buttons. And if hitting those buttons isn't satisfying I can understand how one would feel like they're just there for the sake of other players.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You're right, that's not a safety net, but... I also don't think think the most accurate term for what I think they're thinking.

You're right. Healing is about countering the damage the enemy puts out.
But... (and correct me if I'm wrong Allegor, though I see you're trying to gracefully withdraw) it sounds like the frustration stems from that being basically all healers do in FF14. They have broil, a dot, and then a boat load of "You're not dead yet" buttons. And if hitting those buttons isn't satisfying I can understand how one would feel like they're just there for the sake of other players.

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I have at no point said "The current state with healing is good", but if one's complaint with being a healer is that the healer's existence is dependent on other players, quite simply, they should play another role.

That doesn't mean we cannot improve the experience (But frankly, I do not care to get into this, especially not in this thread), but picking a role that by definition focuses its attention on other players and singling that out as a negative has got to be one of the most inane assertions about class design I've seen yet.

And if you haven't seen the Tank/DPS forums being cluttered by certain topics, I will tell you that the bar for that was set exceedingly high.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I have at no point said "The current state with healing is good", but if one's complaint with being a healer is that the healer's existence is dependent on other players, quite simply, they should play another role.

That doesn't mean we cannot improve the experience (But frankly, I do not care to get into this, especially not in this thread), but picking a role that by definition focuses its attention on other players and singling that out as a negative has got to be one of the most inane assertions about class design I've seen yet.

And if you haven't seen the Tank/DPS forums being cluttered by certain topics, I will tell you that the bar for that was set exceedingly high.

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That's the exact issue I take though, is that the healing itself in this game isn't even interesting. High level play of healing is actively avoiding heal as much as you possibly can.

So what do we have left? Dps'ing. It's why all the veteran Healers and myself included are so focused on it; because it's all we have left of the Role in reality. Healing is not interesting, they've removed every buff and debuff in the game that needs to be maintained beyond Astros cards, and now they've taken away DPS being interesting on Healer from us.

What do we have left to say if we merely exist to fuel DPS fun? That is EXACTLY what it feels like. We know the healing portion of the role isn't going to improve, it never has, and it never will.

@OP:

I'm about as jaded as it gets against the current design direction of the healer role in general at the moment. However no, I don't believe that healers are intentionally designed to babysit the DPS.

Rather I think it's a matter of priority with limited job design time being spent with a DPS role specific mindset coupled with a complete lack of understanding or interest in how healers actually play not only at the endgame, but even in mainstream and levelling content as well. This has been a fundamental problem with SE's job design long before Shadowbringers. Debuffs getting taken from healers and shovelled onto DPS roles is a prime example of this but there are plenty more. SCH launching in Stormblood with no spammable AE even at the level cap is another favourite example of mine.

The issue is one of either misguided effort, or just a complete lack of.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

@OP:

I'm about as jaded as it gets against the current design direction of the healer role in general at the moment. However no, I don't believe that healers are intentionally designed to babysit the DPS.

Rather I think it's a matter of priority with limited job design time being spent with a DPS role specific mindset coupled with a complete lack of understanding or interest in how healers actually play not only at the endgame, but even in mainstream and levelling content as well. This has been a fundamental problem with SE's job design long before Shadowbringers. Debuffs getting taken from healers and shovelled onto DPS roles is a prime example of this but there are plenty more. SCH launching in Stormblood with no spammable AE even at the level cap is another favourite example of mine.

The issue is one of either misguided effort, or just a complete lack of.

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Well said and agreed.

I would like to clarify that us existing to simply fuel their fun is certainly what it feels like, though I have no real tangible proof to back it up other than anecdotal evidence and personal insight.

Not only the DPS, but it does feel like healers are here just to make sure people can queue for content and that's it.

Honestly, even savage/extreme content has nothing to do with healing most of the time. If you avoid mechanics correctly, every room-wide AoE is countered by one AoE heal button press ... It's ridiculous.
Might as well go the GW2 way and put a couple healing spells on each class, then remove healers entirely from the game at this point.

There's always times when we do feel like we had a proper influence on the issue of the fight, but those are rare. Usually it's either "people know the mechanics and everything goes smoothly" or "people don't know the mechanics and we wipe".

There's always exceptions, but that's my general feeling.

Remember, the reason tanks and healers only do 40-50% of the damage a dps does instead of 75% with more engagement, is so even bad dps can feel useful. We can't even feel powerful or have more impact to a raid, despite being the most in-demand roles, because bad dps wouldn't feel as important.

It's just sad when making tank/heal appealing by making them powerful juggarnauts that you're glad to see on a team when played well is so unthinkable, that they had to resort to simplification, making us 1 button glarebots or watered down melee that press a cd 3 times in a 10 minute fight to try and convince people to play them instead for a free pass in endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Remember, the reason tanks and healers only do 40-50% of the damage a dps does instead of 75% with more engagement, is so even bad dps can feel useful. We can't even feel powerful or have more impact to a raid, despite being the most in-demand roles, because bad dps wouldn't feel as important.

It's just sad when making tank/heal appealing by making them powerful juggarnauts that you're glad to see on a team when played well is so unthinkable, that they had to resort to simplification, making us 1 button glarebots or watered down melee that press a cd 3 times in a 10 minute fight to try and convince people to play them instead for a free pass in endgame content.

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*cries and rocks in corner*

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Remember, the reason tanks and healers only do 40-50% of the damage a dps does instead of 75% with more engagement, is so even bad dps can feel useful. We can't even feel powerful or have more impact to a raid, despite being the most in-demand roles, because bad dps wouldn't feel as important.

It's just sad when making tank/heal appealing by making them powerful juggarnauts that you're glad to see on a team when played well is so unthinkable, that they had to resort to simplification, making us 1 button glarebots or watered down melee that press a cd 3 times in a 10 minute fight to try and convince people to play them instead for a free pass in endgame content.

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53-60%.

Lets at least use the right numbers, hrm?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

53-60%.

Lets at least use the right numbers, hrm?

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Do you always have to be so..... abrasive?

You understood what they meant, arguing semantics doesn't really move an arguement forward.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Do you always have to be so..... abrasive?

You understood what they meant, arguing semantics doesn't really move an arguement forward.

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The argument is that "We are less engaging and weaker".

The reality is "We are subjectively less engaging and stronger than we've ever been."

Healers moving into Shadowbringers were -brought up to the level of Astrologian at the end of Stormblood- in terms of their damage contribution. Take a moment to consider that. Of all the jobs in this expansion, healers proportionally increased the most in terms of raid damage. Attempting to paint the scenario as that not being the case is disingenuous. Why should I, or any one else for that matter, take an argument seriously when the facts are being misrepresented so?

When you are making subjective arguments, purposely making up information that is objective in an attempt to sway the argument should not only be corrected but called out.

I would hope that you would do no less to me if I said "Healers are in the best spot they've ever been because they deal more damage than bards.", and I would expect no less. I'd honestly be insulted if you didn't.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The argument is that "We are less engaging and weaker".

The reality is "We are subjectively less engaging and stronger than we've ever been."

Healers moving into Shadowbringers were -brought up to the level of Astrologian at the end of Stormblood- in terms of their damage contribution. Take a moment to consider that. Of all the jobs in this expansion, healers proportionally increased the most in terms of raid damage. Attempting to paint the scenario as that not being the case is disingenuous. Why should I, or any one else for that matter, take an argument seriously when the facts are being misrepresented so?

When you are making subjective arguments, purposely making up information that is objective in an attempt to sway the argument should not only be corrected but called out.

I would hope that you would do no less to me if I said "Healers are in the best spot they've ever been because they deal more damage than bards.", and I would expect no less. I'd honestly be insulted if you didn't.

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I mean, fair enough. However the arguement is really less about damage, and more about how the role overall feels. I think that's where the rub is coming from; adding mathematical information to a subjectively emotional topic is kind of like saying Apples and Oranges are the same because they are fruit.

Yes, they are fruit, however they taste entirely different, and some people may like them, and some may not.

I don't mind the presenting of mathematical information, however it's relevancy inside this topic is a bit off kilter, and off subject. It merely deflects the topic, rather than moving it forward.

You are without a doubt one of the more logical and factually accurate posters I've seen over the years, I will indeed tip my hat at that Kabooa.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

I don't mind the presenting of mathematical information, however it's relevancy inside this topic is a bit off kilter, and off subject. It merely deflects the topic, rather than moving it forward.

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The topic where we designated an other to vent our frustration on to?

The best way for that topic to move forward is kill the thread, and I'm well aware of the irony that I've contributed so much to it, so with a less than graceful exit, I'll sign off here.

Edit: As a small post-leaving thought, I do hope the live letter has something for you and others to like from it. Fingers crossed.

Does anyone that posts on the Healer Roles subforum actually enjoy healing

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Originally Posted by nalgene

Does anyone on that posts on the Healer Roles subforum actually enjoy healing

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Not anymore, no.

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Originally Posted by nalgene

Does anyone on that posts on the Healer Roles subforum actually enjoy healing

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Healing right now is fun if your idea of fun is being a healbot. If it isn't, then its boring at best and an abomination at worst and a massive insult given we've had 2 years of feedback and 4 for whm without anything so much as an acknowledgement.

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Originally Posted by nalgene

Does anyone on that posts on the Healer Roles subforum actually enjoy healing

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Big nopers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nalgene

Does anyone on that posts on the Healer Roles subforum actually enjoy healing

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There was a time back in the dark ages or too say it with Lord Elrond words “ I was there. I was there 3000 years ago ...”