Let's talk about Beastmaster

With the Dark Knight and Red Mage threads being so popular, I figured I'd make one about one of my favorite classic Final Fantasy jobs, Beastmaster.

The way I see it, there are two paths that this job could be developed on.

OPTION 1
Base Class: Flayer
Weapon: Whips
Skillset: A sort of blue mage/beastmaster hybrid, studying the the monsters they encounter and mimicking the most powerful of their abilities. In the current armory system, blue magic is kind of a long shot, with a player only getting 15 skill slots per main class. Including whip skills in the mix it seems like a bit far fetched, though a cool idea.

OPTION 2
Base Class: Wildling
Weapon: One-handed Axes
Skillset: If SE decides to make the game more party focused again, this could be a skillset devoted to soloing. The lore I'm trying to drum up here would be that those who are affected by the Greenwrath of the Twelveswood become wildlings, having to fend for themselves as they are deemed "untouchable." This plays well into a solo class. Axe skills would be about damage, debilitation, and HP gain. Wildlings would be encouraged to use shields to compliment their one-handed axes and solo nature.


Regardless of which sort of base class Beastmaster gets, the concept/lore/theme of Beastmaster would be different from previous iterations like FFXI. Beastmasters are not loving, not friendly, not caring. They are cold and ruthless, they use their dark will to cause beasts to submit to their bidding. This is not Pokemon, Eorzea is not filled with lovable creatures. No matter how cute they are, every beast in Eorzea is a deadly monster. Affection is a weakness and can only lead to getting killed by letting your guard down.

BEASTMASTER

Primary Stats:
PIE
VIT

Abilities:

Level 30: Charm
Brainwashes a monster to fight by your side. Using this ability again releases the monster from your control.
(Cannot charm: Undead, Humanoids, Demons, Beastmen, Dragons/Wyrms/Wyverns, Elementals, Notorious Monsters)
Wears off after a certain time, based on Piety.

Level 35: Summon Beast
In the event that there are no pets to charm, the Beastmaster can use bait equipped in the pack slot to call a pet into battle

Level 40: Rejuvenate
Uses a significant portion of your MP to restore your charmed pet's HP by half its total amount.

Level 45: Synchronized Attack
A ferocious attack with your weapon that also causes your pet to simultaneously use one of its TP attacks without needing the normal required TP amount.

Level 50: Dominate
Gives your pet a large bonus to all of its stats, in addition to Regen and a TP gain bonus. If used without an active pet, allows you to charm any level pet for a static 10 minutes.


In addition to the abilities you get, your pets will be able to use abilities every 5 levels on a separate row in the action bar:

Pet Abilities:

Level 30: Attack, Return
Attack: Sends your pet to attack targeted enemy. Return: Calls your pet back to you.

Level 35: Sic
Causes your pet to use a random TP ability.

Level 40: Whimper
Causes your pet to gain enmity

Level 45: Intimidate
Causes your pet to shed enmity

Level 50: Obey
Choose which TP ability your pet will use. Long recast.


I understand that some of these abilities are similar to how Beastmaster performed in FFXI. (Oh my god I'm using the XI word.) However, BST was done really well in XI, why not keep some things similar while adjusting other things for the type of game XIV is.

While we're on the XI note, another thing I would like to see make a comeback is ecosystems. They added a level of depth to combat that we just don't have right now.

I'm looking for ideas, feedback, discussion. I really want to see BST implemented right. :)

Guttler hungers.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

However, BST was done really well in XI, why not keep some things similar while adjusting other things for the type of game XIV is.

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Probably because BST was not designed well. It was designed around an idea the players never took to and thus the job was sentenced to several years of leveling on their own. Charm as it was in XI should never repeat itself, because then it gives way to the foolish fears Tanaka and Matsui had for pet classes.

My suggestion for BST would be to have a stable of permanent pets (these can be charmed and kept in stable afterwards) with abilities that require both BST and pet to be active. Pets should have their own stat scaling independent of how open world mobs scale, this way we don't run into the excuse the devs in XI used for BST.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Probably because BST was not designed well. It was designed around an idea the players never took to and thus the job was sentenced to several years of leveling on their own. Charm as it was in XI should never repeat itself, because then it gives way to the foolish fears Tanaka and Matsui had for pet classes.

My suggestion for BST would be to have a stable of permanent pets (these can be charmed and kept in stable afterwards) with abilities that require both BST and pet to be active. Pets should have their own stat scaling independent of how open world mobs scale, this way we don't run into the excuse the devs in XI used for BST.

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I actually liked the way BST worked in XI, aside from the whole "aggro-after-charm" thing. I liked the idea of being able to go out in the wild and steal a beast for your own use, it required a good sense of situational awareness. Keeping track of ecosystems helped too.

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

Also the real reason that BST fell into obscurity was that for a while the BST's pet would count as the equivalent of a 7th player in an exp party as far as exp distribution went, bringing down everyone's overall exp. Also as a truly "advanced" job, many players didn't know what they were doing and essentially became gimp warriors by not managing their pets correctly.

I like he detail in the OP. Always nice to see posts of passion like this.

However, I think pets should be a character feature and not a class. We know in 2.0 thy're allowing us to have chocobos fight by our sides, it'd be nice if they eventually expanded on that to include other beasts.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

We know in 2.0 thy're allowing us to have chocobos fight by our sides, it'd be nice if they eventually expanded on that to include other beasts.

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Hmm, I had hoped that was tentative. IMO it seems kinda dumb, I just, I can't picture chocobos as anything other than steeds (or a summon that calls an entire trampling herd of them). But new ideas, and whatnot, always refreshing. Maybe BST could forgo the chocobo fighting thing in favor of other more wild (and likely stronger) beasts?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Probably because BST was not designed well. It was designed around an idea the players never took to and thus the job was sentenced to several years of leveling on their own. Charm as it was in XI should never repeat itself, because then it gives way to the foolish fears Tanaka and Matsui had for pet classes.

My suggestion for BST would be to have a stable of permanent pets (these can be charmed and kept in stable afterwards) with abilities that require both BST and pet to be active. Pets should have their own stat scaling independent of how open world mobs scale, this way we don't run into the excuse the devs in XI used for BST.

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BST was designed perfectly, and with the solo player in mind.

Why do you say it was designed badly? Because it took copious amounts of work to hit 75? It did, for sure. But the rewards were monumental in terms of content that opened up to you once you were 75.

In the early years I made hundreds of millions in gil from BST (100's of Millions). Solo farming, Hakutaku runs, etc etc. Some people enjoyed the solidarity and challenge that came from leveling beastmaster. Not to mention you were a furry badass in your sheepskin AF. Everyone respected a 75 BST in the early years of FFXI.

It was hands down my favorite job in XI, and I wish they would implement it exactly now, as they did then. Which I know won't happen, because people in today's gaming society would panic even at the thought of a challenge of that scope.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

people in today's gaming society would panic even at the thought of a challenge of that scope.

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http://www.soshichan.org/g/src/131929779764.gif

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

BST was designed perfectly, and with the solo player in mind.

Why do you say it was designed badly? Because it took copious amounts of work to hit 75? It did, for sure. But the rewards were monumental in terms of content that opened up to you once you were 75.

In the early years I made hundreds of millions in gil from BST (100's of Millions). Solo farming, Hakutaku runs, etc etc. Some people enjoyed the solidarity and challenge that came from leveling beastmaster. Not to mention you were a furry badass in your sheepskin AF. Everyone respected a 75 BST in the early years of FFXI.

It was hands down my favorite job in XI, and I wish they would implement it exactly now, as they did then. Which I know won't happen, because people in today's gaming society would panic even at the thought of a challenge of that scope.

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It was designed badly because it was designed to be a party class. Like the ninja tank, the players did something with it that SE never thought of and they rolled with it.

I fully support the implementation of a Solo job.

I support this and if Bst comes out i am SO charming a Snurble!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I fully support the implementation of a Solo job.

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All classes are capable of soloing. I'm pretty sure Yoshi-P said something about keeping it that way.

I'd like to see a very detailed pet system, not the same stuff we got in XI minus PUP which was a pretty interesting system with the attachments. Rather then charming, I'd like to see capturing, perhaps each residence can house 5 monsters with expansions if you obtain the proper Carpenter/blacksmith/armorer materials +gil to produce the add-ons.

The capture command would be just like the archer auto-range attack in the sense that it would not count towards the 15 ability limit and be an ability you have from lv 1. When you capture the pet you can mate it to make creatures with unique traits and such but the overall idea is each pet class should have a heavy reliance on crafters/gatherers. For BST/Tamer this would be cookers and botanist/fisher to gather the ingredients needed to make pet food that allows you to raise their stats.

For automatons it would be a combo of blacksmith/armorer/alchemist creating devices used to enhance the performance of the automaton.

Avatars could be a combination of goldsmith/alchemist/ to create enhanced gemstones which increase the astral energy of the avatar you summon.

I just think a method like Charm wouldn't be useful in this game considering how weak mobs are the same lv are aka how easy they go down, it really wouldn't mean much to charm one to use in the grand scheme of things.

Though personally I'm trying to hold my breath and hoping that SE will show us some class concepts they have for mechanics that have yet to be introduced lol. Even if it's an alpha concept I'd like to see what they have in mind when they think of a pet class in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Airget

The capture command would be just like the archer auto-range attack in the sense that it would not count towards the 15 ability limit and be an ability you have from lv 1. When you capture the pet you can mate it to make creatures with unique traits and such but the overall idea is each pet class should have a heavy reliance on crafters/gatherers. For BST/Tamer this would be cookers and botanist/fisher to gather the ingredients needed to make pet food that allows you to raise their stats.

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That's a good point. I was thinking of that, and was kind of banking on the current outcry trend (the one about people wanting longer more strategic battles for exp) being brought to fruition, and mob strength being upped.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

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I understand this, but it's a matter of how you look at it. You can have types of pets be better for certain situations. Say, coeurls are good for X type of mobs. Dodos could be good for Y type of mob. Aldgoats are good for Z type of mob and so on.

Your alternative is your class being gimped because you're balanced around charmable mobs that are no different than the outworld mobs that are designed to maul you to pieces. Tanaka used to talk about having to be careful because of the fact part of BST's gameplay involved mobs with much higher stats than any player. This is also why the design eventually moved in favor of jug pets, as they were not the same as outdoor mobs. Again, I don't want anything that would facilitate the devs keeping a job weak the way they did with BST.

That being said, I also want to push for emphasis on abilities that require master and pet to cooperate in order to do damage or support or whatever. Tamer could have basic commands (though for balance reasons I would limit all pets to having one specific ability per type/family) while BST would be able to work in synch with their pet to contribute. BST being able to combo with their pets would also be a neat thing to see. Should bring good things if the job can actually fit into a party with greater ease, too.

I liked the way bst was done in 11 a lot. I'd prefer them to use it as the core template and and update it accordingly. That said though I don't know if it could work in this game because 14 is about spamming multiple squishy mobs for retardedly fast xp...

Dunno but I do know I desperately want bst back.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

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Like BST does in XI with jug pets? every BST and their mother has a Nursery Nazuna, Dipper Yuly and GooeyGerrard the "big 3" BST pets in XI.

The stable Idea is from WoW and while there were "best" pets to have for hunters not every hunter had the same pets, they had the same species but in various colors, sizes and some even had special skills. It was alot more diverse then you make it sound.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I fully support the implementation of a Solo job.

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The problem with this scenario is any job/class can solo to 50 via Guild Leves, whereas in FFXI you had no option but to party with the exception that a Beastmaster could solo up to 75 albeit slowly but surely. I am afraid the "soloablity" of the BST class wont stand out in Eorzea, but other than that I always have and will love BST.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Like BST does in XI with jug pets? every BST and their mother has a Nursery Nazuna, Dipper Yuly and GooeyGerrard the "big 3" BST pets in XI.

The stable Idea is from WoW and while there were "best" pets to have for hunters not every hunter had the same pets, they had the same species but in various colors, sizes and some even had special skills. It was alot more diverse then you make it sound.

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And then I look at things like Guild Wars where having a menagerie of pets meant that you could chose whatever pet you wanted based on physical appearance, but that rendered them entirely pointless. The focus with those was whatever was the most rare, but even then everyone had them.

I would however support an idea of jug pets/menagerie as long as pets have strengths/weaknesses, thus requiring more thought into which pet you used. Do I want a Dodo pet all the time? Not really, but say I'm going to go fight a lot of beetles (or a giant beetle boss o_o), a Dodo (theoretically) would be strong against beetles. But if I'm going to head to the Shiva boss fight, I wouldn't bring a Dodo because they're weak to Ice and would be destroyed, I'd bring something else.

That kind of strategy/consideration was another thing that made BST fun in XI. Bringing a tiger jug to a Yuhtunga party was crap because tigers were weak to mandies, etc.

And yes, while I think it's probably unlikely, if they upped the strength of mobs to make the game more cooperative/party-based, as well as updated the monster distribution to go with the new maps, then charming wild pets could indeed become useful again. That hope is, again, a bit of a longshot though.

the second beastmaster becomes apart of this game, i'll main that job forever just like i did in ffxi. As of right now i think any pet class will break the game. thats why theres no dragon avatar with our dragoons it went old school. it will come sooner or later. sigh maybe in the first real expansion pack to the game

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Originally Posted by Aminore

thats why theres no dragon avatar with our dragoons it went old school

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I'm pretty sure that's just because of the lore, not really because of game breakage.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

And then I look at things like Guild Wars where having a menagerie of pets meant that you could chose whatever pet you wanted based on physical appearance, but that rendered them entirely pointless. The focus with those was whatever was the most rare, but even then everyone had them.

I would however support an idea of jug pets/menagerie as long as pets have strengths/weaknesses, thus requiring more thought into which pet you used. Do I want a Dodo pet all the time? Not really, but say I'm going to go fight a lot of beetles (or a giant beetle boss o_o), a Dodo (theoretically) would be strong against beetles. But if I'm going to head to the Shiva boss fight, I wouldn't bring a Dodo because they're weak to Ice and would be destroyed, I'd bring something else.

That kind of strategy/consideration was another thing that made BST fun in XI. Bringing a tiger jug to a Yuhtunga party was crap because tigers were weak to mandies, etc.

And yes, while I think it's probably unlikely, if they upped the strength of mobs to make the game more cooperative/party-based, as well as updated the monster distribution to go with the new maps, then charming wild pets could indeed become useful again. That hope is, again, a bit of a longshot though.

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You can do all this with the stable system... what you are asking for is the ecosystem that SE had for XI which is not exclusive to jug pets and the like. With the stable system in WoW a hunter is able to dismiss and call another pet to better handle any given situation. combine that witha monster ecosystem and a Beastmaster can dismiss and call beast a Dodo to fight the beetle swarm.

Yes, I think if jug pets were balanced it would be preferable to charming wild mobs, even though the latter would still be fun.

Plus if we used jugs it'd give alchemists and culinarians something more to do.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Yes, I think if jug pets were balanced it would be preferable to charming wild mobs, even though the latter would still be fun.

Plus if we used jugs it'd give alchemists and culinarians something more to do.

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I can just see SE making a DoL that charms and capture pets and a DoH that makes jugged pets and a DoW that uses them....NO thanks.

Lets just have Carby back and forget this fluffy pet nonsense, err...

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Originally Posted by Roj

I can just see SE making a DoL that charms and capture pets and a DoH that makes jugged pets and a DoW that uses them....NO thanks.

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Lol at first I was thinking of the long lost and fabled Shepherd class, and then I thought of a DoH with a meatgrinder taking all of the shepherd's animals and putting them in a jar.

So yeah, lol, there are better ways to do this. I was thinking jugs full of what the animal you're summoning likes to eat.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Lol at first I was thinking of the long lost and fabled Shepherd class, and then I thought of a DoH with a meatgrinder taking all of the shepherd's animals and putting them in a jar.

So yeah, lol, there are better ways to do this. I was thinking jugs full of what the animal you're summoning likes to eat.

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Full of adventurers then?

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Originally Posted by Roj

Full of adventurers then?

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1316156400

Also, what are your guy's idea for the lore behind Beastmaster in Eorzea? The more I think about it, the more I like my Wildling idea, but that could just be more tooting my own horn

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

You can do all this with the stable system... what you are asking for is the ecosystem that SE had for XI which is not exclusive to jug pets and the like. With the stable system in WoW a hunter is able to dismiss and call another pet to better handle any given situation. combine that witha monster ecosystem and a Beastmaster can dismiss and call beast a Dodo to fight the beetle swarm.

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Agreed. Prior to WotLK, pets were pretty much useless, as the hunter raid spec was Marksmanship and pets were squishy. WotLK is where each was given a situational advantage (yes, I used the word situational to refer to the fabled l0lezmodeWoW). Cats were considered pretty good DPS and could buff the group's AGI and STR with Roar of Courage. Wolves could buff the party with Furious Howl and were considered hardier because of their higher base armor and health. Corehounds had decent DPS and Ancient Hysteria (think Haste, but on steroids multiple times over). Spiders could stun and root enemies. And so on.

The reason I favor a stable system is also because I think jugs as a concept are pretty much BS. If you worry about the poor culinarians, I'd implement a food system for BST pets. Sure, you'll grumble about having to buy specific types of foods for each pet (because that aspidochelone likes mushrooms and not steak), but, well, balance. >.>;

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

I fully support the implementation of a Solo job.

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Considering the entire game will end up being instanced and require 8 member parties, I'm not sure how far you'll get with that.