The trust system is great, I hope it gets expanded

Recently arrived in shadowbringers and unlocked the trust system which I was blown away with, this is such a great system that imho should be a staple for any mmorpg.

Not only can it help people learn mechanics and get used to a fight, it can be tuned for harder content so it could be turned into a form of solo challenge that could share similar rewards to similar challenging group content.

Since pve has always been scripted content a simple counter script was always the easiest counter which is proved to how flawlessly your npcs do mechanics leaving everything else to you, your individual performance would be in charge of the result because all the npcs are meant to do is the bare minimum seeing how low the dps of the npcs is.

I hope they start thinking of expanding this because I believe this could end up making people try out harder content in their own pace which they wouldnt do previously, it could even lead to a huge area of solo challenge content which wasnt explored previously in other mmorpgs since many scoffed at the idea of systems that allow players to not interact with other players yet a huge % of mmorpg players enjoy a heavily solo experience.


Have the devs made any statements about how they feel about the trust system and their plans ahead?

I don't think they should expand it to more difficult content as is (even if it could benefit people like me who don't care to use the party finder) as I think requiring other people should still be a feature of certain contents in this game.

That said, I would love to see it being expanded to those contents as practice runs where you don't gain any achievement/reward for beating hard contents with a Trust, but maybe delay it until at least the weekly reset after the content has been cleared with a party full of players in every data center.

If it were used for harder content, I think it would have to work more like the squadrons where you tell them what to do, otherwise the trusts are saying "this is the official strategy". The problem with that is SE wants each party to come up with their own unique strategy to take it down that works for them.

I appreciate the trusts aswell and always run a dungeon with trusts first.

But I have to say, it's not always good. Many times I've been a bit disappointed by the lack of reaction. In Dohn Mheg the trusts really show their personality.
And in other dungeons, they're just not that different.

I really hope trusts will pump up a bit their damage, they don't use AoE so every pack takes a while and a dungeon can take 20+ minutes. Sometimes 30.
Another problem is how they adjust their DPS, the longer you take the more agressive they'll be. Because of that behavior, if you Tank, pull the pack and wait for them to kill the pack, they'll grow agressive and powerfull to end the dungeon faster.

It's not optimal, it's just a cheap, easy and not bothersome way to deal with the dungeon while leveling.

I'm not against Trusts in harder content. But not in players savage, they could introduce "Trusts savage" like how we have duels in Bozja.
For normal 8 man content, would be good aswell, but not in savage that just wouldn't work.

I think it should stick to msq content.

Expand it to include trials, sure, so you can play through the msq if you want. But it shouldn't allow you to do savage/ex/ultimate content on your own. This is still an MMO afterall.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Not only can it help people learn mechanics and get used to a fight

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But running a content with non-AI players also helps people learn, we all see the mechanics and react and can even talk with one another about it - realistically you'll just end up following one of the npcs whilst mashing one of few attack keys.
Challenging solo stuff would be cool though, a bit like the bozjan 1vs1 fates but something expanded like an instance that is designed around 1 player being able to clear it, if I recall correctly the game Aion had instances that you could do with a group of people, but also offered a solo version of some of the instances for players.

I mean, squadrons were going to be expanded and let you do any content without others. Trusts are claiming to be the same... I'll believe only once it happens, sorry.

I agree, savage should get trust. And ultimates. Why should i have to play with other players in a MMO, they don't pay my sub. Its not like there is RMT thats 24/7 posted in party finder for these...

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I mean, squadrons were going to be expanded and let you do any content without others. Trusts are claiming to be the same... I'll believe only once it happens, sorry.

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I have a feeling that expanding squadrons had to be dropped due to the AI they gave them. I'd have to replay the dungeons they have available again, and... I'm not super inclined to do so presently. But. I suspect somewhere along the way, devs realized the dumbed down AI for squads was incapable of handling some of the more critical mechanics that get introduced over the length of the game. Squadrons are awesome, in the way they just bull rush through everything, mechanics be damned. But, just try to figure out how to make them smartly dodge an insta-kill attack, and their limitations start showing. And, devs just sorta went with the easy option of "let's just give up and start over."

Trusts should be added to everything that doesn't require a brain.

I would love it if I can savage and such with the trusts. There are times where I dont want to be partied up with people or can't find a group so I find the trust system to be convenient. especially when I'm playing late night and everyones asleep and due times are horrendous. I swear ya peeps hate options for players. If people want to use the system for harder content, let them. Its their choice.

Personally, I think the Trust system should stay within MSQ only. I would love to see Trusts available to use in MSQ dungeons for ARR, HW and Stormblood.

I agree with ya but I'm not gonna take the trust seriously till they can go do fates or kill open world stuff with me.

Plus they need to find someway to make it were me and a friend fill up a duty with 2 other trusts, I don't care whose trust gets the exp, this is also a major gripe for me.

In a perfect world our trust system would be like the pawn system in Dragons Dogma, but other then reaching Dragons Dogma lvl I'd settle for the things mentioned above.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

I would love it if I can savage and such with the trusts. There are times where I dont want to be partied up with people or can't find a group so I find the trust system to be convenient. especially when I'm playing late night and everyones asleep and due times are horrendous. I swear ya peeps hate options for players. If people want to use the system for harder content, let them. Its their choice.

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Yes let them do savage. What could be more fun than watching someone with 7 NPCs hit enrage all the time?

And before everyone jumps at me saying "How will they do the mechanics in the first place to reach enrage!?", I'll just say "Ilya strats".

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

I agree with ya but I'm not gonna take the trust seriously till they can go do fates or kill open world stuff with me.

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You have a chocobo companion though and Bozja proved an NPC can actually be useful in fates.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

I would love it if I can savage and such with the trusts. There are times where I dont want to be partied up with people or can't find a group so I find the trust system to be convenient. especially when I'm playing late night and everyones asleep and due times are horrendous. I swear ya peeps hate options for players. If people want to use the system for harder content, let them. Its their choice.

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I would say it is more a question of resources since it would take quite a lot to code and tune everything well, because it is absolutely possible to create trusts for savage and tuning them in such a way that the only way to beat the encounter is by doing the mechanics flawlessly and having decent dps therefore the outcome depends on your personal performance rather than other people's performance as well.

Suddenly the high end content who is known about high difficulty instantly becomes a solo challenge of the same difficulty that avoids one of the biggest issues some players have, the social barrier.

It would also help to dispell the myth that casuals/solo players are bad and the reason they dont clear high end content is because they lack the skill rather the aforementioned social barriers.

I agree with the Op

I run solo, unless it is with the great people in my FC which I rarely if ever do because of my schedule.

Trust has made XI much more enjoyable. The people who hate it, are folks who realize noobies are no longer obligated to play with them; so they can harass the poor noobies in parties lol. Now, new XI players can simply summon their own party to learn the ropes instead of being put on blast in the public forums. There is zero reason to hate on either trust system really. They are hurting no one.

I think ESO has a similar system unless someone can correct me on that?

Trust=casual, I like casual lol. I remember years ago while playing XI as a teenager; me and my LS would bash how the game was becoming more casual. Only to grow up and realize I am no longer a Kroger bagger living in my parent's basement. Free time aint what it used to be lol..........

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Recently arrived in shadowbringers and unlocked the trust system which I was blown away with, this is such a great system that imho should be a staple for any mmorpg.

Not only can it help people learn mechanics and get used to a fight, it can be tuned for harder content so it could be turned into a form of solo challenge that could share similar rewards to similar challenging group content.

Since pve has always been scripted content a simple counter script was always the easiest counter which is proved to how flawlessly your npcs do mechanics leaving everything else to you, your individual performance would be in charge of the result because all the npcs are meant to do is the bare minimum seeing how low the dps of the npcs is.

I hope they start thinking of expanding this because I believe this could end up making people try out harder content in their own pace which they wouldnt do previously, it could even lead to a huge area of solo challenge content which wasnt explored previously in other mmorpgs since many scoffed at the idea of systems that allow players to not interact with other players yet a huge % of mmorpg players enjoy a heavily solo experience.


Have the devs made any statements about how they feel about the trust system and their plans ahead?

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While I do like it, this is an MMO. Key words are: Massive and Multi - multi meaning multiple people. The whole idea of an MMO is to group up with other people to do content. While yes its fun as a DPS to not have to wait 50 minutes for a dungeon or be #role waiting list #150 - its also not what an MMO is about.

I kinda wish they would remove it, but since they won't - I hope they do not expand it such that it takes away from the MO of the MMO.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

While I do like it, this is an MMO. Key words are: Massive and Multi - multi meaning multiple people. The whole idea of an MMO is to group up with other people to do content. While yes its fun as a DPS to not have to wait 50 minutes for a dungeon or be #role waiting list #150 - its also not what an MMO is about.

I kinda wish they would remove it, but since they won't - I hope they do not expand it such that it takes away from the MO of the MMO.

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So you like it but you want it removed anyways? O_o;
I mean it's an option. I like because I can AFK if I want real quick, I can learn rotations or tanking and stuff without people being mean to me about it.
Some people can't be asked to wait that long sometimes and there are still people who prefer other folks since it's faster that way.
I'm also a solo player and have been playing on and off for years so this is really good for me. :eek:
I would leave it to all the dungeons though, I dunno if it's fair for them to be in Savage or anything lol.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

While I do like it, this is an MMO. Key words are: Massive and Multi - multi meaning multiple people. The whole idea of an MMO is to group up with other people to do content. While yes its fun as a DPS to not have to wait 50 minutes for a dungeon or be #role waiting list #150 - its also not what an MMO is about.

I kinda wish they would remove it, but since they won't - I hope they do not expand it such that it takes away from the MO of the MMO.

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By that logic all solo content is antithetical to the idea of an MMO, which is not something I can agree with.
Some people like to go to parties and not socialize. These people should be acknowledged as well. MMOs aren't about socialize or bust any more than the real world is. By engaging with content in whatever way one wants they're able to engage with the community about the content without some of the community needing to be present for the initial content experiencing to validate their experience with the content.
(Phew I hope that makes sense)

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

I would love it if I can savage and such with the trusts. There are times where I dont want to be partied up with people or can't find a group so I find the trust system to be convenient. especially when I'm playing late night and everyones asleep and due times are horrendous. I swear ya peeps hate options for players. If people want to use the system for harder content, let them. Its their choice.

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Options come in the form of static vs pf vs rf, unfortunately allowing 7 AI party members would remove the human error factor of Savage and make it much, much faster to clear.

Pugging for people with uncommon schedules will become easier comes 6.0 with cross DC too

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

While I do like it, this is an MMO. Key words are: Massive and Multi - multi meaning multiple people. The whole idea of an MMO is to group up with other people to do content.

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Everything including games evolve, I never subscribed to the conservative ideology that things should be strictly defined and never changed, and if you noticed since the first mmorpgs the genre has evolved, and more successful mmorpgs including this one have started focusing more and more on solo content because they know many people like mmorpgs for gear progression, pvp, in group dps competition, story and all the other small things that come with them, not solely because its multi.

It is clear more and more people enjoy mmorpgs in a more solo fashion, and you cant deny that fact or tell those people to group up or leave which is why the mmorpgs is changing to be more solo friendly every year.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

While I do like it, this is an MMO. Key words are: Massive and Multi - multi meaning multiple people. The whole idea of an MMO is to group up with other people to do content. While yes its fun as a DPS to not have to wait 50 minutes for a dungeon or be #role waiting list #150 - its also not what an MMO is about.

I kinda wish they would remove it, but since they won't - I hope they do not expand it such that it takes away from the MO of the MMO.

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This is outdated thinking, dude. MMO does not mean "Must always group up", but that you are interacting with many, many other players in one form or another, even without necessarily being the same party or alliance raid group. Nothing is "massive multiplayer" in an 8 or 24 person party. That'd be small or medium/large respectively. Besides, people who love playing with others can still do so. If internal data would show that a fictional majoriy opted for Trusts outside of the fist run - and not counting roulettes - than real people in an MMO, the problem is not the trust concept. But rather that people seeking the classic and trusty MMO feeling are not as much as everyone initally believed.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Recently arrived in shadowbringers and unlocked the trust system which I was blown away with, this is such a great system that imho should be a staple for any mmorpg.

Not only can it help people learn mechanics and get used to a fight, it can be tuned for harder content so it could be turned into a form of solo challenge that could share similar rewards to similar challenging group content.

Since pve has always been scripted content a simple counter script was always the easiest counter which is proved to how flawlessly your npcs do mechanics leaving everything else to you, your individual performance would be in charge of the result because all the npcs are meant to do is the bare minimum seeing how low the dps of the npcs is.

I hope they start thinking of expanding this because I believe this could end up making people try out harder content in their own pace which they wouldnt do previously, it could even lead to a huge area of solo challenge content which wasnt explored previously in other mmorpgs since many scoffed at the idea of systems that allow players to not interact with other players yet a huge % of mmorpg players enjoy a heavily solo experience.


Have the devs made any statements about how they feel about the trust system and their plans ahead?

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Hm, for harder content like Savage, I don't think so. It would make a bit awkward, I think since Savage and beyond is supposed to be a collective learning experience (in theory) with a static group of friends...

But, one thing that I'd love is the Trust system retroactively expanded to pre-ShB by using the Squadrons!

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Hm, for harder content like Savage, I don't think so. It would make a bit awkward, I think since Savage and beyond is supposed to be a collective learning experience (in theory) with a static group of friends...

But, one thing that I'd love is the Trust system retroactively expanded to pre-ShB by using the Squadrons!

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Yeah, SE won't bother adding them to EX and beyond. Just think how stupid they would look if they were to spend months making a fight, just to have you go in with 7 NPCs, and have them execute every mechanic perfectly on day 1. But! SE did think of a solution to those that don't want to do party content called BLU.

Personally, I think that trust and squadron should be deleted from this game. This is an MMO, if you want to go solo, play a solo game. This appart, this does not affect me, go solo if you want, I don't care if you cannot "stand" player. Well technically it affects me because all the hours spend to develop this non-sense is not spend to develop actual mmo content...

But something which I do care about is fairness and because of that I cannot support your request OP. Current content doable with trust is brain dead anyway, so doing it with actual player or NPCs do not change the challenge of it. Same difficulty for same reward is all good for me. But ex/savage/ultimate, no way. It's the last piece of content which is not brain dead. To clear it, you need 8 people not making error. If you go in with NPCs, only you need to do it correctly thus leading to a far easier content. And if you follow my logic, easier content should lead to less reward. Even no reward at all for such an easy challenge which is ex/savage with "perfect" teammate.

I wish we could pick our favorite NPCs and use them for different roles. Like Y'shtola for WHM and BLM or Than red for both NIN and GNB.

What's really annoying about trusts though is that they don't AOE which makes dungeon runs really tedious.

I'd like to see them modified to support small groups. So Trusts would fill in the roles you're missing. Then you could do MSQ content with just one or two other people in a small group setting instead of always just solo. I also wish you could choose to do currently solo instances as a small group, so you could remain with your hunting partners and tackle the challenge together.

People mistake the desire for others to have the solo option with *never* wanting to group. A lot of folks who like to tackle things solo want to enjoy the game and want to interact with other players on their own terms and have the option not to if they aren't feeling it. Plus there's a big misunderstanding of the MMO idea. It just means that you're online in the same persistent world as other people. Old school MMOs like EverQuest had forced grouping, but some classes could still solo a lot of things outside of raids. And MMO has gone away from the forced grouping idea because the developers of new MMOs realized that accessibility = more people = a healthy game.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Options come in the form of static vs pf vs rf, unfortunately allowing 7 AI party members would remove the human error factor of Savage and make it much, much faster to clear.

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And? If its faster and/or easier for a person, let them do it that way. If you want to get the bois together and group up for ultimate or savage, you can do that. Options people options!

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

And? If its faster and/or easier for a person, let them do it that way. If you want to get the bois together and group up for ultimate or savage, you can do that. Options people options!

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Why does every piece of content have to be a cakewalk or something everyone has to be able to participate in? If you’re unable to do extreme/savage with 7 other players, there’s other content readily available.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

And? If its faster and/or easier for a person, let them do it that way. If you want to get the bois together and group up for ultimate or savage, you can do that. Options people options!

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If the tied rewards are tweaked or removed, why not, I honestly think it could be useful to practice your own part of the fight at least. But much of the difficulty of the content comes from having to coordinate 8 people, the fights are designed and balanced around that, not 1 person and 7 bots.

I'd rather see new hard content for solo or light party specifically designed and balanced for that amount of players, than changes or options to currently existing content, though.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Why does every piece of content have to be a cakewalk or something everyone has to be able to participate in? If you’re unable to do extreme/savage with 7 other players, there’s other content readily available.

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Because clearly it can’t be tuned in such a way that your individual performance is what leads to beating the encounter or not by requiring individual perfect mechanics and decent dps to beat.

Or are you saying that no matter how skilled or perfect you play individually that is irrelevant and it is a ‘cakewalk’ because something out of your control aka other people failed mechanics, in that case how can you talk about how skilled and what a great achievement YOU ve earned when you beat in the group when you yourself just said your individual performance no matter how good makes it a cakewalk?

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Why does every piece of content have to be a cakewalk or something everyone has to be able to participate in? If you’re unable to do extreme/savage with 7 other players, there’s other content readily available.

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Damn we gatekeeping now?

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Damn we gatekeeping now?

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Dunno, who's stopping you from pugging or joining a static?

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Because clearly it can’t be tuned in such a way that your individual performance is what leads to beating the encounter or not by requiring individual perfect mechanics and decent dps to beat.

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The content is tuned for 8 PLAYERS. This includes mechanic solving, healing/mitigation done efficiently, and everyone doing decent dps. You shouting "individual performance" or w/e you have going on in almost every thread tells me you don't understand how raid progression actually works.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Damn we gatekeeping now?

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Not every piece of content needs to be designed for 100% of the playerbase. And yes, performance is and should remain as a gatekeeper.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

The content is tuned for 8 PLAYERS. This includes mechanic solving, healing/mitigation done efficiently, and everyone doing decent dps. You shouting "individual performance" or w/e you have going on in almost every thread tells me you don't understand how raid progression actually works.

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A savage raid and extreme trial is nothing more than a simple challenge, it can be made harder via more mistakes from others or easier by overgearing and skipping phases, tuned for 8 people means very little when it can be 1 player and 7 npcs instead that do the minimum, especially when it can be tuned so you need higher than average personal dps to get through because all npcs would be average which actually means you are gonna do the encounter as it was meant to instead of skipping phases like groups love to do so it is actually harder.

It sounds like you don’t want to admit that people who would beat this often overhyped ‘hardcore’ content are more than capable individually and skilled enough to do it which is what matters in these form of challenges, instead you keep trying to hype up the group’ achievement’ which often overgears and skip phases when they can thus reducing the simple challenge even further.

It is almost as if you don’t want to admit this overhyped hardcore content is not as hard as you would like to believe once that is proven when those dirty casual solo players start clearing it with trusts when there’s no social barriers thus bringing your overhyped achievement to a more realistic ground level which is the source of your true fear.

If they beat it with a trust or with a group it makes little difference, if anything with a group of players it is easier due to having more control over strats by assigning specific spots rather than having to think in real time and the usual overperformers covering for any mistakes, player mechanical mistakes being the real cause of wipes most of the time which is something you can’t control.

Again you cannot say beating with an 8 player group is harder compared to beating it with 7 average npcs and one player unless you argue that individual performance doesn’t matter hence you cannot claim to have achieved anything hard either.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

A savage raid and extreme trial is nothing more than a simple challenge

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Then why do you need 7 npcs to hold your hand to clear in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Then why do you need 7 npcs to hold your hand to clear in the first place?

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tread carefully with him. he is a willy one

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Then why do you need 7 npcs to hold your hand to clear in the first place?

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Oh so you need 7 human players to hold your hand to clear?

In case you haven’t realized you can easily get carried by 7 players, you won’t be getting carried by 7 npcs who do the minimum :^)

So again, the individual skill of the person doing it with npcs seems that it could be far higher than one who does it with a human group which often includes overperformers, but what’s this? That means that beating hardcore content with a group isn’t the huge achievement elitists try to hype up when those dirty casual solo players who always need their hand held beat your l33t content.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Oh so you need 7 human players to hold your hand to clear?

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If 7 humans can hold your hand to clear, why do you need 7 bots to do the same thing? You scared of getting called out as a leech by those human players?