Why is the next new job a melee DPS?

I watched the expansion live event yesterday to get caught up with the game. Something caught my eye, and it was that the two new jobs would be a healer and a melee DPS respectively. I found it weird because currently there are four melee DPS, and three magical and physical ranged DPS. Are melee DPS more popular in this game? It seems weird to add a fifth job to a role when two roles are currently at three.

Edit: I could not respond to everyone because of the post limit but I have upvoted your explanations! Thanks a lot for explaining.

We have 4 magical dps :^)

Yoshi-P always wants one of the new jobs to be a DPS because DPS is the most popular role. Whether it's because they prefer dealing damage or because they are too anxious to tank and heal, it is the most popular role.

It's a melee DPS because they design Dragoon gear specifically for Dragoons, unlike most gear which is for multiple jobs, so it was time to make that gear useful to other jobs as well.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

I watched the expansion live event yesterday to get caught up with the game. Something caught my eye, and it was that the two new jobs would be a healer and a melee DPS respectively. I found it weird because currently there are four melee DPS, and three magical and physical ranged DPS. Are melee DPS more popular in this game? It seems weird to add a fifth job to a role when two roles are currently at three.

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I mean, there's also the fact that Physical Ranged and Magical Ranged combined are six classes under the overarching Ranged category, while Melee are currently at four, up to five when Endwalker launches. It makes no sense to add another Physical Ranged after Dancer was added in Shadowbringers, and SE, as you can see from the classes added via their previous expansions for FFXIV has an "every other" expansion strategy with adding new classes to roles. Melee are just getting another addition after last having received Samurai in Stormblood, about 3-4 years ago.

While they do like to keep the roles equal when possible (This was there reason for picking dancer as ranged) I imagine that's only if they have a suitable job concept they are happy with in time.

It wouldn't be good for the game to stick too rigidly to role parity if it meant impending a ranged or magic they were unhappy with or currently unable to make work as it likely would not be up to scratch.

Because the actual situation is that we have 3 physical ranged, 3 magical ranged, 2 striking melee, 1 scouting melee, and 1 maiming melee, so adding another maiming or scouting melee makes the most sense. That's the reason we were given by Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Yoshi-P always wants one of the new jobs to be a DPS because DPS is the most popular role.

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So why the f are all the queue times for us DPS 40+ minutes?

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

So why the f are all the queue times for us DPS 40+ minutes?

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DPS is the most popular role, therefore there are less people playing tanks and healers. Want a quick queue? Learn how to play a less popular role. That's just how it is.

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Originally Posted by GrassCuttingAuRa

DPS is the most popular role, therefore there are less people playing tanks and healers. Want a quick queue? Learn how to play a less popular role. That's just how it is.

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These are facts. I wont deny that and I do have a tank. But I refuse to level him any further with the toxicity around "get gud". Let me learn and not be forced to do wall to wall because you are in a rush.

I haven't seen 40 minute dps queues since 2.0....


You are doing something very wrong.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I haven't seen 40 minute dps queues since 2.0....


You are doing something very wrong.

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No Im running on an alt and trying to do old raid content for the story

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

So why the f are all the queue times for us DPS 40+ minutes?

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The queue times for DPS are generally high, because there are more people playing dps than the other roles even accounting for the 1-1-2 ratio in most content save alliance raids.

In a dungeon dps are 2/4 of the slots but more than half of the people are generally queueing as dps, hence a longer wait.

In terms of older raids for story, that's largely because of people being able to duck out of doing raids they don't want to by reducing their ilvl by removing gear. So if you want to do orbonne monestary for example, a lot of people queueing for alliance raid roulette are avoiding it by cheesing with gear.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

In terms of older raids for story, that's largely because of people being able to duck out of doing raids they don't want to by reducing their ilvl by removing gear. So if you want to do orbonne monestary for example, a lot of people queueing for alliance raid roulette are avoiding it by cheesing with gear.

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While I am not overly complaining about queue times, I just go do something else till the controller buzzes. I think, more like wish, something could be done about that. For example theres lots of people running crystal tower, but its 20-30 minutes for my summoner to get in. Sky pirates is 40+ for example.

For alliance raids what I think they ought to do is tiered ivl requirements.

You're level 50 to 59? You need to queue with an ilvl high enough to do any crystal tower raid.

60 to 69? Better have ilvl high enough for dun scaithe.

70 to 79? Orbonne.

Level capped? Whatever the ilvl of the newest raid in roulette is.

The tradeoff then though is that it's potentially annoying for people who just reached those milestones but don't have the gear for them yet, who honestly can't make those threshholds and aren't just cheesing the system.

Another solution could just be to remove the ilvl requirements and only base it on level but then you could end up with several undergeared people.

The part of the queue time that's based on roll distribution though there isn't much they can do about it, as redesigning content with a different breakout of roles would be a huge shift from where things are currently balanced.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

So why the f are all the queue times for us DPS 40+ minutes?

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because its the most popular role, hello? more people playing dps means fewer people playing tanks and healers.

They have multiple systems of DPS classification.

A: Melee and Ranged (4/6 currently)
B: Melee, Physical Ranged and Magical Ranged (4/3/3 currently)
C. Maiming, Striking, Scouting, Aiming, Casting (1/2/1/3/3)
Either can be valid.

They change their minds which system they strive to keep 'even' at any given time, and this actually works out quite well because if they stuck to one system, it would mean they would eventually hit a stage where that balance was achieved and they would have to break it by adding new jobs, the next DPS job in a given expansion would be predictable because we could easily see where the gaps were, and it would enforce a stricter party make up.
So you have to realise, while Yoshi P might say they're looking to even out the roles, they never want to actually achieve a balance between them.
Think of it like playing RDM.

Their explanation for choosing a maiming gear melee job specifically is flimsy because Ninja is in exactly the same boat. Unless they're going to shift Ninja over to aiming gear, then this sets the precedent for 7.0 to add another melee using scouting gear, but I'm sure they'll change up their philosophy before then and give us a Magical Ranged instead.

because melee chads run this game

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Their explanation for choosing a maiming gear melee job specifically is flimsy because Ninja is in exactly the same boat. Unless they're going to shift Ninja over to aiming gear, then this sets the precedent for 7.0 to add another melee using scouting gear, but I'm sure they'll change up their philosophy before then and give us a Magical Ranged instead.

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Dragoon has had its own armor type since the beginning of ARR compared to ninja who was added after arrs release and even shared striking gear at a point which is why they said what they did with dragoon and maiming.

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

Dragoon has had its own armor type since the beginning of ARR compared to ninja who was added after arrs release and even shared striking gear at a point which is why they said what they did with dragoon and maiming.

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Ninja doesn't share striking gear.
It uses Dexterity, not Strength.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Ninja doesn't share striking gear.
It uses Dexterity, not Strength.

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That's not what they said. They said it did... at a point. Which is true. Nin didn't get its own gear until 2.4. Until then, it used striking gear.

That's why 110 striking gear had both STR and DEX.

See: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...m/32d5357cdc9/

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Ninja doesn't share striking gear.
It uses Dexterity, not Strength.

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At one point there was some gear that had both strength and dex. iLvl 110 stuff

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

These are facts. I wont deny that and I do have a tank. But I refuse to level him any further with the toxicity around "get gud". Let me learn and not be forced to do wall to wall because you are in a rush.

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I get your sentiment but you could literally just say something like "Hey, I'm a new tank so I'm going to pull a little slow since I'm still learning" and the vast majority of the time people will either be fine with it or offer you some tips for tanking multiple packs.

You could also go tank some fates instead of dungeons, there's not much of a difference between the two except for the latter you have a dedicated healer keeping you alive and some dps to help burn down mobs, and the former there's no real consequence for losing aggro since nothing hits hard aside from the big fates.

I get that tanking is nervewracking but people will only maybe be toxic if you say nothing and tank poorly, and people who are toxic no matter what can easily be votekicked.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

They have multiple systems of DPS classification.

A: Melee and Ranged (4/6 currently)
B: Melee, Physical Ranged and Magical Ranged (4/3/3 currently)
C. Maiming, Striking, Scouting, Aiming, Casting (1/2/1/3/3)
Either can be valid.

They change their minds which system they strive to keep 'even' at any given time, and this actually works out quite well because if they stuck to one system, it would mean they would eventually hit a stage where that balance was achieved and they would have to break it by adding new jobs, the next DPS job in a given expansion would be predictable because we could easily see where the gaps were, and it would enforce a stricter party make up.
So you have to realise, while Yoshi P might say they're looking to even out the roles, they never want to actually achieve a balance between them.
Think of it like playing RDM.

Their explanation for choosing a maiming gear melee job specifically is flimsy because Ninja is in exactly the same boat. Unless they're going to shift Ninja over to aiming gear, then this sets the precedent for 7.0 to add another melee using scouting gear, but I'm sure they'll change up their philosophy before then and give us a Magical Ranged instead.

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D. Physical and Magical (7,3)
E. Str, Dex, Int, (3,4,3)
F. DPS (10)

I presume it's because Maiming and Scout DPS currently don't share armor pieces with anyone else. Whichever one doesn't happen in 6.0 will happen down the road, along with a proper fourth magic DPS.

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Originally Posted by MPK

We have 4 magical dps :^)

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Blue Mage is Magical: Tank, Healer, Ranged DPS, and Melee DPS.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I get that tanking is nervewracking but people will only maybe be toxic if you say nothing and tank poorly, and people who are toxic no matter what can easily be votekicked.

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Usually I see eye to eye with you, but imma have to disagree on this one. As a healer main who frequents many healer forums and groups, I see the "HE GON LEARN" mentality favored and having Rescuing tanks into bigger groups because they're "bored" otherwise as widely acceptable behavior. There is a not tendency in this game to be willing to let tanks learn because it's slowing the impatient speedrunners down too much.

isnt the amount of each role implemented proportional to full party slots rather than melee/ranged/caster? if you go by that we're actually due a melee.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Blue Mage is a god.

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Fixed this for you :P

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Usually I see eye to eye with you, but imma have to disagree on this one. As a healer main who frequents many healer forums and groups, I see the "HE GON LEARN" mentality favored and having Rescuing tanks into bigger groups because they're "bored" otherwise as widely acceptable behavior. There is a not tendency in this game to be willing to let tanks learn because it's slowing the impatient speedrunners down too much.

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I mean you're not wrong, but with random groups the bottleneck is usually the healer being able to keep the tank up, if the healer is confident they can keep the tank alive I don't see anything wrong with it, albeit I don't really like healers that passive aggressively rescue people instead of opening chat and telling them to pull more and they can handle it.

Anyways, probably shouldn't say more so the thread doesn't get derailed

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Originally Posted by MsQi

D. Physical and Magical (7,3)
E. Str, Dex, Int, (3,4,3)
F. DPS (10)

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I'll take E.
F is useless, and I think if they cared about D at all then we'd already have way more than 3 casters.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

At one point there was some gear that had both strength and dex. iLvl 110 stuff

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I see. So all stuff 50 and below, and even then, it's simply a fraction of the gear available to it that was retroactively given Dex as well as Str, at a stage where all DoW still shared most of their gear as well.
This is purely because Ninja wasn't an original job, it was added in 2.4 and so it needed gear to use.
Every single piece of gear after it's release has been Ninja exclusive 'scouting' gear.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

isnt the amount of each role implemented proportional to full party slots rather than melee/ranged/caster? if you go by that we're actually due a melee.

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This ! I've been waiting for someone to tell that !
It was sure we will getting a melee because the standard composition of a full party is supposed to be: 2 Tanks/2 Healers/2 Melees/1 Physical ranged/1 Magical Ranged.

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Originally Posted by Kazelus

This ! I've been waiting for someone to tell that !
It was sure we will getting a melee because the standard composition of a full party is supposed to be: 2 Tanks/2 Healers/2 Melees/1 Physical ranged/1 Magical Ranged.

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While is is the most common party composition, it's not one that the devs regularly promote. Some fights are tailored around it, but many aren't.
Their official stance is that it's usually 2T/2H, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged, 1 Caster, 1 Wildcard.
The 2 melee typically comes up due to melee generally dealing more damage, but 2 casters is also viable.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

While is is the most common party composition, it's not one that the devs regularly promote. Some fights are tailored around it, but many aren't.
Their official stance is that it's usually 2T/2H, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged, 1 Caster, 1 Wildcard.
The 2 melee typically comes up due to melee generally dealing more damage, but 2 casters is also viable.

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You are right but think about developing battle content, you have a party composed with 3 melee (2 tanks + 1 melee), 4 ranged (2 healers + 1 physical ranged + 1 magical ranged) and a wildcard, the wildcard will be considered as a melee by default to avoid any trouble if a melee takes that spot cause a ranged can take a melee slot but not the reverse. So they have in mind a party of 4 melees and 4 ranged when it comes to creates battle content.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

While is is the most common party composition, it's not one that the devs regularly promote. Some fights are tailored around it, but many aren't.
Their official stance is that it's usually 2T/2H, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged, 1 Caster, 1 Wildcard.
The 2 melee typically comes up due to melee generally dealing more damage, but 2 casters is also viable.

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Two melee has been more standard since Second Coil due to fight mechanics. With two caster, there's usually so much overlap from having essentially 5 ranged, that one of them has to be commanded to stay in a melee's spot anyway. Most ranged players don't like doing that.

I remember filling in for a buddy's static during Sigmascape. They ran NIN, RDM, BRD, and either BLM or SMN. I can't remember but I think it was BLM. Anyway, they were very cruel to melee players, and would not shut up about, "Why play melee?" And they purposely killed me with Ink repeatedly, citing I was in their spot... while I'm in melee range on the side I was told to be on. Then they wondered why I was mad at them. Then they said I was parsing horribly. Like, no shit, you just killed me with Ink, and the RDM couldn't even be assed to raise.

I still get pretty grumpy about two caster comp to this day. It makes me uncomfortable, even if I'm not on melee.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Two melee has been more standard since Second Coil due to fight mechanics. With two caster, there's usually so much overlap from having essentially 5 ranged, that one of them has to be commanded to stay in a melee's spot anyway. Most ranged players don't like doing that.

I remember filling in for a buddy's static during Sigmascape. They ran NIN, RDM, BRD, and either BLM or SMN. I can't remember but I think it was BLM. Anyway, they were very cruel to melee players, and would not shut up about, "Why play melee?" And they purposely killed me with Ink repeatedly, citing I was in their spot... while I'm in melee range on the side I was told to be on. Then they wondered why I was mad at them. Then they said I was parsing horribly. Like, no shit, you just killed me with Ink, and the RDM couldn't even be assed to raise.

I still get pretty grumpy about two caster comp to this day. It makes me uncomfortable, even if I'm not on melee.

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RDM and NIN are each very capable of filling in for either the melee or ranged slot.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

RDM and NIN are each very capable of filling in for either the melee or ranged slot.

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Uhh, sure, they both have melee and ranged moves, but at that time especially, unless it came around in NIN's rotation that they were going to use Ten Chi Jin to trigger Suiton, they used it to do the combo ending in Doton. This meant more than ever, be in melee range, but it's not like a NIN is going to stand at 15y and Throwing Dagger for the whole fight. That'd be insane. A RDM standing in melee range the whole fight is much more believable, just reverse Displacement after melee combo if the timing of mechanics allows it.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Uhh, sure, they both have melee and ranged moves, but at that time especially, unless it came around in NIN's rotation that they were going to use Ten Chi Jin to trigger Suiton, they used it to do the combo ending in Doton. This meant more than ever, be in melee range, but it's not like a NIN is going to stand at 15y and Throwing Dagger for the whole fight. That'd be insane. A RDM standing in melee range the whole fight is much more believable, just reverse Displacement after melee combo if the timing of mechanics allows it.

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You always end TenChiJin with Suiton for single target.
That's what Meisui is for and why it lines up with TCJ's cooldown.

No fight in which you have an assigned ranged position, actually needs to stand at a distance for the entire fight, only for specific mechanics. Which is what Raiton is for.
In fact, all players should be within melee range for most of the fight anyway for AoE heals.

Most recently done Hades and SoS EXs as a ranged NIN. There's one mechanic in each of those where the ranged position has to be at range for more than a GCD, and only about 2-3 GCD's at that. Raiton and a little weaving easily covers that and you barely lose a single GCD.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You always end TenChiJin with Suiton for single target.
That's what Meisui is for and why it lines up with TCJ's cooldown.

No fight in which you have an assigned ranged position, actually needs to stand at a distance for the entire fight, only for specific mechanics. Which is what Raiton is for.
In fact, all players should be within melee range for most of the fight anyway for AoE heals.

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Meisui didn't exist in Stormblood, and the potencies of Ninjutsu were different.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Meisui didn't exist in Stormblood, and the potencies of Ninjutsu were different.

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We're in Shadowbringers now.