WAR needs love

WAR main here...I don’t complain much, but WAR is unplayable for me now. Our damage notch, gone. Our survivability, gone...in its place, subpar raid utility that pales in comparison to our fellow tanks. NF is horrible, it’s not like Heart of Stone, Divine Vail, or TBN. It’s totally reliant on another party member, to give us an ability, that was stripped from us. Maybe I’m just crying, but every tank has a feel totally absent from current WAR. Our gap closer is locked behind gauge that we can’t build outside of combat while all other tanks have 2 stacks. I could go on, but I already feel like I’m whining. I just want WAR to feel mighty again or at least like I belong beside my fellow tanks

Yeah I agree to the buff of warrior you don’t need parsing to see that gunbreaker and dark knight of play WAR’s burst dps style if your gonna burst at least let me feel it and don’t tell me inner release give you crit cause it doesn’t matter if you don’t have dmg now now your gonna hit me with the tanks don’t need dmg and that’s true but and that’s a big butt I can assure you NF bad doesn’t gain for its worth you also need another player for it that kinda rude thx square for more double gating not only that but gives you 10% DR Weak! Also tide to raw cd like why WHY! Is that there play elaborate that it’s not clever it’s not balance it’s just there I have to choose 15%dr on my self or 10% with a weak bloodbath that feels like I’m tickling my self and the person next to me I could write a book on this I’m just highlighting one of the millions of flaws that killed the class the King is dead since shadow bringer and I’m a Drk main man but it still saddens me to play war time to time and be disappointed

Bro.

WAR can perform up to 5k HPS. It turns into a third healer!

Imagine how much freedom that allows the healers.

Sure, WAR can heal, but can it DPS? WAR DPS is not as far behind as it seems. Is it 4th? Yes. Is it bad? Not even close. Best GNB in E5S has 12.5k aDPS, whereas best WAR has 12.4k aDPS. Are we really going to cry about 100 DPS? In E8S, that gap jumps to a shocking 400 DPS! Wowsers! WAR's so undepowered amirite?

WAR has their 30% mitigation, and rampart, just like every other tank. Holmgang, that's probably the best invuln. Bro, WAR's got it all: damage, mitigation, healing.

What more you want?

Personally just want the job to be fun/engaging again lol. (mostly liked older defense builds, followed by SBs threat control. Now they are just over simplified blue DPS, with mostly the same simple DPS rotation from SB.)
But to be honest, Im rooting for DRK more than WAR, I love me some 2hand swords <.<; (Again, playstyle, not actual performance)

I miss the thought required back to play it well in SB and the build variety in HW

Warrior got nothing this expansion
it had bloodbath returned to it as nascent flash (returned skills are not new skills) an aoe qol change that didn't need to be required before previous dev mistakes and generic damage upgrades to memecleave

I miss inner beast, such a satisfying sound and funny feeling seeing my 5 ft tall au ra uppercut Titan in the crotch with her axe. I can't even see her anymore using fell cleave there's so much sparks and discs


Levelling my blm in the grand company squadron was very painful for me. why? Seeing all these old abilities the devs have removed over the years from our favourite jobs, looking at you phelbotomise, butchers block, mercy stroke, largresse, fracture and level 15 assassinate

I said this back in March and I was crucified for thinking NF was a meh ability.

I still think this today, and still feel that the devs should come up with something better that is more inline with the other tank classes that don't rely on another class to use. I mean PLD can even heal themselves to proc Divine Veil if the healer isn't healing them.

Warrior is still a "cool" class to play and will probably always be a cool class to play. It's hard hitting and gratifying to see huge numbers pop up. But the job needs to have some synergy added to make it "less of a chore" to play.
PLD is perfect combat flow
DRK is perfect combat flow (best in my opinion)
GNB is perfect combat flow
WAR needs work on it's burst phase as I find it very "stars align" you get good DPS feel. Same with NF as it's usable only when it's right, and in this case large AOE packs. I hardly ever use it on bosses or 8 man raids. I usually use raw intuition for damage reduction. Apart from using as OT ability...it's still just MEH.

And let's be honest with NF is only good with Inner Release. Other then that it's strong with if you pop Infuriate for Inner Chaos. Might get 18-24k heals.

Might as well bring back Bloodbath as a warrior only skill and remove it from all the DPS roles. Shake it Off is the only raid utility that is one of the warriors strongest. Raid wide damage reduction...AND it applies to the warrior also. Great skill.

Anyways...those are my opinions.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I said this back in March and I was crucified for thinking NF was a meh ability.

I still think this today, and still feel that the devs should come up with something better that is more inline with the other tank classes that don't rely on another class to use. I mean PLD can even heal themselves to proc Divine Veil if the healer isn't healing them.

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this doesn't even come close to compare. the equivalent skill you are looking for Nascent Flash is Intervention on Paladin, which does require a party member targeted to use. Divine Veil equivalent is Shake it Off, which does not require a middle man for activation.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

this doesn't even come close to compare. the equivalent skill you are looking for Nascent Flash is Intervention on Paladin, which does require a party member targeted to use. Divine Veil equivalent is Shake it Off, which does not require a middle man for activation.

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It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

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Originally Posted by Vatom

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

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My thoughts exactly. Intervention requires you to think about what you are using it for because it costs oath. Intervention is fire and forget, and I usually pop rampart or sentinel for OT absorption for tank busters or tank cleave.

Nascent flash is just...there. I honestly think the duration needs to be 10 seconds of HP absorption, and then it would be a skill that I can take a little more time to think about what I want to do before it's over.

You have to look at what you get from the skill before you compare it. The purpose of WAR using NF is for the health regen(something gutted from the kit in stormblood, but still attached to steel cyclone, that still got gutted). You can’t compare that to intervention which exists ONLY as utility.
Had NF given a free infuriate stack, I’d be fine with it. Rip out a core element in our job, then give it back in a weird gated fashion just seems...wrong

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

this doesn't even come close to compare. the equivalent skill you are looking for Nascent Flash is Intervention on Paladin, which does require a party member targeted to use. Divine Veil equivalent is Shake it Off, which does not require a middle man for activation.

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This skill should not even need another party member to be used. It's useless if you solo, but then most people say use your chocobo. That's not the point. The point is make worth using. Bloodbath would fix all of this, and I honestly don't know why SE decided to take it away from warrior to begin with, and then give it back in a worse form.

Remove Nascent Glint mechanic and increase the length timer to 10 seconds and this skill is fixed honestly. Change it so you can cast it on ANY party member and would fix the OT aspect as well.

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

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Originally Posted by A-Omega

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

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they are referring to savage fights, not 4man dungeons (to an extent EX/24man. since damage isnt always fatal w/o a CD, and nor do u always need 2, or even 3, CDs to survive a TB)
Invincibility will be better for 4 mans, but being able to survive multiple tank busters that deal more than all your HP in dmg, rather often, is always more useful than 1 invincibility in the same savage fight. The only reason its value is much lower now, is (1) they created fights where soaking dmg was longer than a the duration of old holmgang, or (2) didnt have a target before the change to holmgang. and the biggest reason (3) theres no longer a "DPS stance" in which u can truly benefit from having holmgang take ungodly strong TBs with, w/o having to worry about stacking CDs, turning tank stance on, and or use a tank swap for, due to not having enough CDs to survive.

Obviously in a 4man pull, going to 1 hp just means the healer couldnt outheal the dmg they take, and so its pointless. but in a savage fight, the boss charages up a single attack, and after its over, they go back to tickling u with light auto dmg, and a healer can more than easily bring u up past the safety net. (And so can you as WAR with Thrill+equilibrium+NF combined. But this is one of the reasons I wish Thrill of battle was WARs primary CD, instead of RI.)

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Originally Posted by Vatom

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

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Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

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I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

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Originally Posted by Vatom

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

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Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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Cute but that still doesn’t get us anywhere nor have proven anything but insults

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Originally Posted by Vatom

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

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Originally Posted by Vatom

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

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So I have what you said and you said "it's kinda of not a equivalent", when both require a target, and both give said target damage reduction, both have a degree of job flavour, I mean unless you cannot understand what you wrote, Idk but that is as close as you get to the same skill without homogenisation. And yes, TBN and HoS are all under the the same branch as Intervention and Nascent Flash, when used on another party member as they all mitigate damage on another party member.

"come on bro do you read lol do you even tank" also personal attacks like this are nothing but a pathetic scapegoat when someone is talking out of their a** but yes I can tank bro, with all savage fights from Creator up to current tier minus Shiva cleared, due to finishing off TEA, with no ultimate in 5.3 we took our time and have Ultimate kills under my belt, all as PLD, so yea bro I can tank leagues better than you.

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Ok nice flex I mean ultimate really isn’t relevant Anymore and savage anyone can do now not Like I haven’t savage since HW too so now I’ll retract my last statement Out of respect it was out of line but back to the debate

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I wouldn't describe Ultimates as "really isn’t relevant Anymore" they are still the most difficult content in the game and still some people struggle even now. Savage is hit and miss, but a lot of people even struggle with that. Both still deserve some respect in terms of the content it brings, even though savage has become easier over the years.

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Originally Posted by Vatom

I think I’m getting what your saying now that we clear some of it up your saying they are all the same cause they can be given to other player and I’m saying no they are not now that we got this part of where we stand let’s go back into what I was getting and you can retort

NF does not = intervention or tbn or Hos especially his and tbn and that be cause they can be dropped on themselves whole mech that changes it’s us and benefits the tank and tbn is even better granted if it break you get a free att I mean I could complain about my cost but this isn’t a drk thread it’s a War thread if NF did any of that I could say yeah those two should be in twine with this but they are in a different group or to be in a compromising position sub group that’s the closet I’ll get but intervention is tied by gauge = not a cd for pld raw and NF tied together that’s a cd no a team buff though it has the workings of it I’ll give you that because of the locking of it to another player And my comment all of the tank abilities like that might as well be all in the same group was just sarcasm sorry flew over someone’s head I guess just because the have 1 true similarity does mean they are but anyway it still doesn’t come close to the other excluding pld which can also cover... does that count too? But anyway even if we go you route it’s still at the lowest of the 4 which is why this thread was made plus the other parts of war that kinda don’t fit together but let’s us finish with your reply and move on to real matters at hand which is to discuss war faults granted I still see other tank have some too but no game is perfect just war needs well... some love Anyway I’m done

Please respond

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There isn't much here I need to counter with as this is very much an agree to disagree scenario. Obviously each skill is different, but all four skills carry out the same function when used on another party member other than self. All four mitigate damage on another party member. Each has a unique feature, WAR gets to heal itself plus target member through NF. PLD can buff their Intervention, but only if it lines up, you don't typically go out of your way to buff it, unless required cooldowns will be back up for when you need them. TBN, you've already brought up, personally the cost is justified imo, so as to not abuse a cheaper cost for flood/edge, and it also has the shortest recast timer of all four. HoS can apply it's BS on top of the 15%, only while under the effect of BS. And, all have a unique trade-off to use, NF shares a recast timer with RI, Intervention has a cost of 50 gauge, TBN cost 3,000mp, and prevent a second use on self if use on another and HoS just a recast timer but same as TBN precludes another use until it comes off cooldown, also arguably the weaker of the four imo. As far as I see it, all four skills work in the same capacity with similarities to one another. Therefore I classify them all under one branch, the only exception is TBN and HoS, are treated with a dual classification since they also compare against Sheltron and Raw Intuition.

*side note*: Cover I kinda view as a unique utility skill along the same lines as Passage of Arms, mostly as it's a redirect of damage, not a damage mitigation skill outright.

I can understand wanting improvements for WAR, but NF I do not agree with needing any sort of change, I genuinely believe requiring a party member keeps the skill balanced, to use Clemency as a point to argue, it's very potent but requires MP and a GCD to use so requires a heavy cost for a large amount of healing, NF being less, but still absurd levels for how frequent it can be used, targeting requirement in my eyes seems fair. Honestly I believe WAR requires a full rework and the removal of current IR on the whole and redesigned is more vital for the job to make it less boring to play and not the odd child out with the guaranteed crit DH mechanic, preventing it sharing the actual BiS with the other three tanks but to name a couple problems with the job.

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Note: I don’t need to talk out my *** as your saying I’ve been through the ups and downs of this game for roughly 8years I’ve seen Drk dodge aoes like they never existed I’ve done it I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party I’ve seen Warriors clutch the clear cause he said I got this and bloodbath his way to victory so no I never talk out my *** but I give you this I was a bit emotional and for that your have my regrets but don’t think cause of ultimate you and I are on a different scaling cause I’ve seen it and done it

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Tbh, you did p*** me off ngl, and I've played since the beginning of HW, so I've seen and done it all from that point onwards, and only thing I won't take your word on here is, "I’ve seen Pld cheese mechs and revive a healer so he could lb3 the party". Simply because Raise was traited on WHM to allow combat raise, a trait which paladin did not gain access to. As you did p*** me off, by insulting me, of course, I was not going to be polite in my response, and I used my ultimate and savage accolades as a counter point to your "lol do you even tank".

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Originally Posted by Vatom

no game is perfect just war needs well... some love

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Tackling that mess of a run-on sentence is no easy task. I'm not even going to bother! Bro, you need to learn about your periods, commas, and other punctuation marks.

WAR needs a rework. Heck I would argue all tanks need another rework after the failure that is ShB rework for tanks. Sure, they got rid of minor annoyances but they gave us nothing back to actually chew on in tanking. WAR isn't played to me because its boring to play now, even if they buffed WAR to highest DPS I wouldn't play it... its boring to play.

The war is strong enough. No adjustment needed.

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Originally Posted by Gone_Gorge

The war is strong enough. No adjustment needed.

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WAR, and the rest of the tanks, are mechanically sound.

But none of them are strong enough. DAMAGE BUFFS NOW!

I bet the OP is listening to RnB or Techno music instead of Death Metal.
You just gotta switch the music and you'll see.

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

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Unjustified = given very valid reason but ignored because OP disagrees...sounds about right lul

side note: Forums aren't here so everyone can just agree with you, we all gave plenty of justified reasoning behind why we disagreed with the topic, and it all boiled down to a single-minded view, of you're right and the rest of us are wrong. Yes WAR does need work, but it needs an expansion level rework.

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

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I'll humor you on this one and explain what the main issue is with your OP.

Your suggestion is not bad, having recovery / lifesteal tools on WAR is perfectly normal to cement its HP-Tank(-esque) role. The problem in your OP is that you complain about Nascent Flash and would trade that in for your idea.

Shadowbringers added various skills to the tanks to put them on equal footing - PLD got a gapcloser, DRK got an AOE mitigation (that isn't Reprisal) and WAR got a single-target party mitigation in the form of Nascent Flash. To take out Nascent Flash for your idea would mean you replace a ST-party mitigation tool for a recovery tool that is also an AOE party tool (if combined with Thrill of Battle, a personal cooldown no less). Those are all heals, no mitigation.

On first glance, sure there is "no harm done" if WAR goes back to being the only tank who can't support another tank in mitigation, but to say I wouldn't miss Nascent Flash's -10% mitigation on a party member would be like saying I don't use Reprisal for tankbuster / auto attack mitigation (which I do ever since Stormblood).

That being said, unpopular opinion - Nascent Flash is better than Bloodbath (discounting Nascent Glint Bonus). Sure, WAR's Bloodbath at 90s recast / 30s duration had an overall higher uptime than Nascent Flash (25s recast / 6s duration; 30s duration every 125s), but Bloodbath was a lot less flexible because of the recast, while Nascent Flash can be activated more freely and more targetted around key points of incoming damage. Furthermore, you can time your Nascent Flash usage around yourself having damage cooldowns / combo finishers ready to increase the efficiency.

The only downside of Nascent Flash is that you cannot use it solo, which is a non-issue because overworld / solo instance content doesn't hit hard enough that Storm's Path + Equilibrium + Thrill + chocobo / instance buff won't heal sufficiently.

The ONLY reason I can see Nascent Flash making the targetting of a party member optional is to ease the use for self-healing without macros; solo content isn't a reason for doing this though. Exception: PVP Nascent Flash. Would be cool if you could use that without a party member, but that is purely because I tend to like Rivalwings and dueling arena a lot, so even then not that much of a biggie.

TL;DR: Don't sacrifice Nascent Flash for your idea. It is a good cooldown.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

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Ngl, I use <2> or <mouseover> macros with it. It is annoying and usually the times you intend to press it you also press other defenses or maybe Inner Release / Infuriate next to NF. It isn't backbreaking, but I can see why it annoys people.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Yes WAR does need work, but it needs an expansion level rework.

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This is all that you had to say.... Accepting the fact that out of ALL the tanks warrior is the one that needs the most attention. I think everyone can honestly agree they would play others knowing how well they play compared to warrior.

Can we not? Or am I just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

This is all that you had to say.... Accepting the fact that out of ALL the tanks warrior is the one that needs the most attention. I think everyone can honestly agree they would play others knowing how well they play compared to warrior.

Can we not? Or am I just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I will say this again: " I was crucified for mentioning this in a previous post!"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ior-clunkyness

And it was the same people defending without a justified conversation to discuss the OP. Maybe this is why i'm always disappointed by these forums when I ask for a simple discussion and peoples thoughts.

Some people just have to strong opinions and refuse to accept that warrior needs work, and will defend it until SE changes it. Sit there chant "This is the way"

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Well yea what else is there to say, the job is boring and uninteresting and makes gearing an issue if you want to be an omnitank, you have to sacrifice DH because of one problem skill, Inner Release. Inner release is the main reason why Warrior can't naturally evolve the same way Paladin did. The devs put all their eggs in one basket, built the job around one skill, then further cemented this with Nascent Chaos. Outside of the burst, it's spam combo with the occasional Fell Cleave until IR comes up again, with only one oGCD to keep on cooldown to manage.

"Can we not?", what exactly? At what point did I accuse you of saying, "just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?", I accused you of failing to actually read peoples points and chose to dismiss said points as "defending without a justified conversation", because they do not align with your view.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

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Not to seem like I’m insulting you but it feels like you just skimmed the thread that argument was just about similarities not really anything more also who said to get rid of NF I think the concept it good I just feel they should break off of raw as a minimum fix total fix in my eyes would be to allow it to be used on yourself NF isn’t hard to use idk where the thought came from keep it where you target other cool but like dragoon’s eye (cause I forget the actual term) allow it to be self it’s nit a new concept just doing what they did this whole expansion transfer a mech from one class to the other

I'm going back and forth on the forums here and reading a lot of contradictory things.

And for what I can summarize is this:

We believe the idea of Nascent Flash is to keep the warrior alive.

When all of the opinions lean more towards it's ONLY intention is for OT ability to put on the main tank. This seems logical given the mitigation and healing factor.

But why do we use it for AOE pulls when we ourselves get NO mitigation and just straight insane heals?

Is this where the problem with the skill is coming into play for me? I can understand the use of placing it on the MT in a raid for mitigation and heals, because you can really throw out some crazy OS moment healing.

BUTTTT when i'm in a dungeon or MT a raid it is so much more beneficial to pop Raw Intuition. Outside of AOE pulls it's pretty much meh. If I'm off tank then yeah it's great, but won't save me in a dire need moment if I have to target someone low on HP that's in range.

Man i'm glad PLD doesn't need this level of attention. It's perfect the way it is :D

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Well yea what else is there to say, the job is boring and uninteresting and makes gearing an issue if you want to be an omnitank, you have to sacrifice DH because of one problem skill, Inner Release. Inner release is the main reason why Warrior can't naturally evolve the same way Paladin did. The devs put all their eggs in one basket, built the job around one skill, then further cemented this with Nascent Chaos. Outside of the burst, it's spam combo with the occasional Fell Cleave until IR comes up again, with only one oGCD to keep on cooldown to manage.

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Look at you go!

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

"Can we not?", what exactly? At what point did I accuse you of saying, "just trying to get all the masses to agree that warrior is perfect and doesn't need work?", I accused you of failing to actually read peoples points and chose to dismiss said points as "defending without a justified conversation", because they do not align with your view.

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Sorry that was sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Sorry that was sarcasm.

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Ngl, I wasn't sure if that was just another episode of you selective reading capabilities.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Ngl, I wasn't sure if that was just another episode of you selective reading capabilities.

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No, just an attempt to rouse your haughty personality

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont understand the clunkyness argument for nascent flash anyway, its not like warriors have loads of off globals they need to use and its also not like targetting someone else is particularly hard.

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I believe all the clunkiness complaints are tied to desires to use it as a self-buff rather than as the intervention/cover equivalent it is intended to be.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I believe all the clunkiness complaints are tied to desires to use it as a self-buff rather than as the intervention/cover equivalent it is intended to be.

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In the essence, yes, but only in situations where applying to Nascent Glint to someone else provides literally zero benefit by virtue of the situation you may be in. As in, if there is no swapbuster / doublebuster / double autoattacks / shared busters happening, as in no moment where Nascent Glint actually does a thing, why should we still need to press it on someone else just to use it for the self-benefit of this dual purpose skill?

Making it optional just rids off the need to use macros or swap targets manually to apply the buff. Isn't the first time we have dual-purpose skills either, yet Nascent Flash is the only one that actually limits the self-benefit by requiring a target that isn't yourself. What the "intention" is matters little since they literally gave it a self-benefit along with the "intended" effect.

That being said, Dragon Sight worked identically to how Nascent Flash works now, yet got changed to making the Right Eye buff application optional, not mandatory.

Would you still get a benefit to apply it to someone else at every use? Of course you would, yet they decided to give you the option to do not do so.
Would Nascent Flash give their target a benefit at every use? No it wouldn't, yet it is mandatory.

Other skills that were allowed to be used on yourself since Shadowbringers:
- Deployment Tactics to spread a self-applied Adloqium
- Excogitation (for whatever reason)

Also just a personal gripe - it annoys me a bit that everytime this gets brought up, ppl bring up the "intention" argument for Nascent Flash's introduction, despite being dual-purpose from the very beginning. What gives? Why are we so hell-bent on the idea that abilities need to conform into one specific ability type instead of multiple?