Worst housing system I have ever seen

The game buries you in decorations and expects you to try and win the lottery for getting a plot. I know why the devs dont fix this, they are using this as incentive to move to a less populated data center/server. Do not give in, keep putting the pressure on to add more plots and fix the housing issue! also they should investigate monopolies hard. housing Monopolies are against TOS and there is tons of real estate agents anyway selling and buying plots using their accounts and their families accounts.

Now all of that aside the method of obtaining a plot is literally the lottery which favors people with alot more time to play the game creating a has and has not situation (further giving incentive's for people to seek out real estate agents and pay large sums which violates TOS) If your going to make this system as such make it an actual lottery where NO one can own more than one house personally. (Sorry folks, for those of you who play this game for housing, you need to learn the share)
Give us something different, please devs. Maybe an instanced housing option similer to the APTs.

/facepalm
There is already an instanced housing called apartment....

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

/facepalm
There is already an instanced housing called apartment....

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Beat me to it.

I seen worse housing systems in MMOs. LotRO when I tried that game about 7 years ago immediately comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

The game buries you in decorations and expects you to try and win the lottery for getting a plot.

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The game doesn't expect you to do it. It lets you decide if you want to try.

You can use most of the housing items obtained through normal game play in apartments. You only need a plot for the outdoor items and those usually are an optional purchase you're free not to make.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

I know why the devs dont fix this, they are using this as incentive to move to a less populated data center/server. Do not give in, keep putting the pressure on to add more plots and fix the housing issue!

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Of course it's one incentive to get players to move to lesser populated servers where housing is already available. They aren't going to add more wards when that's going to create even more vacancies on worlds that already have plots available.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

also they should investigate monopolies hard. housing Monopolies are against TOS and there is tons of real estate agents anyway selling and buying plots using their accounts and their families accounts.

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Where does it state that in the ToS?

I doubt the flippers are using the accounts of family members when an individual can have multiple server accounts.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

Now all of that aside the method of obtaining a plot is literally the lottery which favors people with alot more time to play the game

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I can't think of a MMO that doesn't give advantages to people with more time to play. It's hard to design a MMO so greater time investment doesn't lead to greater rewards.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

(further giving incentive's for people to seek out real estate agents and pay large sums which violates TOS)

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Please quote the portion of the ToS that says this is a violation when only gil is involved.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

If your going to make this system as such make it an actual lottery where NO one can own more than one house personally.

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They aren't going to penalize players who legitimately obtained multiple houses when limits were per character, not per account. Forcing those players to give up their additional houses will only help a handful of players and still leave the majority without wanting one.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

Maybe an instanced housing option similer to the APTs.

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Now you're onto something. More plots is not the answer. An improved instanced housing system is because then every player, even every character, who wanted a house could get one without creating the strain on server resources that more wards creates. It removes the power of the flippers because there's no reason to try to bribe another player to give up the plot they already own when you can get one directly from the game when you want.

I've no doubt that have something in store for us with regards to housing improvements but only they know exactly what it is. Let's hope the 5.1 live letter gives us some information.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Now you're onto something. More plots is not the answer. An improved instanced housing system is because then every player, even every character, who wanted a house could get one without creating the strain on server resources that more wards creates. It removes the power of the flippers because there's no reason to try to bribe another player to give up the plot they already own when you can get one directly from the game when you want.

I've no doubt that have something in store for us with regards to housing improvements but only they know exactly what it is. Let's hope the 5.1 live letter gives us some information.

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This I agree with. I’m certain they know by now that just adding new wards/plots isn’t going solve the problem. And even if they did find more ways to prevent bots or house flippers who just buy plots then sells them at crazy prices, they would just find ways to exploit that system again just like now.

What they really need to work on is improving apartments and perhaps allowing us to upgrade them with our Gil. They already have the framework and foundations of instanced housing, they just need to evolve or improve on it. I mean I love the crystarium inn suite. Note how it feels more spacious and bigger than the previous inn rooms we had. I think that’s a hint that they’re working on something involving apartments.

Now I might be wrong and this is just theory crafting but I do think they are working on something, just because there has been no response from them so far doesn’t mean they don’t see or ignoring the problems of our current housing system. But they can’t make promises they can’t keep either.

But I also hope that they’ll bring it up either at the part 1 of the 5.1 live letter (though I assume it’ll be mostly about the Neir raid) ^^ or they’ll mention it in Part 2.

Housing is a topic that needs in general a fix.
It cant be that you have housing in this game with servers full of thousands over thousands of players, and then this game actually makes it possible only for like a few hundred of them to actually own a house (among which are many FC Headquarts and actually no personal houses), while everyone else is forced to have maximum only an appartment. Thats pathetic.

Housing has to be possible for everyone. I don't need to have for this extra full housing villages. Would be enough if my house is just a personal instance to which I could invite others, it doesnt need to stand for me extra in an instanced village full of houses from others.

Make Housing if that needs to be a thing that costs like 1 Dollar/Euro rent a half year, thats 2 Dollar/Euro a year, if that use only 1 million active players theb does earn housibg 2 million cash that should be more than enough money alone already to upgrade servers with more than enough bandwith to ensure that everyone can have own houses who actually want to have one, because only due to that feature being there, doen't mean that all players want also to use it.
Not every player must be into housing and likes it, ther are also alot of player which don't care themself about housing in FF14 at all.

But everyone who cares about it, should also be able to use that feature, without being forced to play any plot lottery for years!!! Thats just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

/facepalm
There is already an instanced housing called apartment....

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Thank you. Apartments are dirt cheap and are literally everywhere on my server, on top of that, they don't hold you hostage (unlike houses), and will always be there for you no matter how long you're away from the game. I don't think the players who keep complaining about housing are ACTUALLY upset about not having their own space, they're just upset a few other players have something they don't (and something that isn't even all that I might add, as a home owner myself, I honestly just use my house as a gil sink and the occasional gardening).

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Housing is a topic that needs in general a fix.
It cant be that you have housing in this game with servers full of thousands over thousands of players, and then this game actually makes it possible only for like a few hundred of them to actually own a house (among which are many FC Headquarts and actually no personal houses), while everyone else is forced to have maximum only an appartment. Thats pathetic.

Housing has to be possible for everyone. I don't need to have for this extra full housing villages. Would be enough if my house is just a personal instance to which I could invite others, it doesnt need to stand for me extra in an instanced village full of houses from others.

Make Housing if that needs to be a thing that costs like 1 Dollar/Euro rent a half year, thats 2 Dollar/Euro a year, if that use only 1 million active players theb does earn housibg 2 million cash that should be more than enough money alone already to upgrade servers with more than enough bandwith to ensure that everyone can have own houses who actually want to have one, because only due to that feature being there, doen't mean that all players want also to use it.
Not every player must be into housing and likes it, ther are also alot of player which don't care themself about housing in FF14 at all.

But everyone who cares about it, should also be able to use that feature, without being forced to play any plot lottery for years!!! Thats just ridiculous.

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Sorry, but the moment you suggested players should actually pay rent for a house in FFXIV, I couldn't take you seriously. Some of you claim that the current system is such a disaster, but then you propose ideas that are literally 100x worse. What are you trying to accomplish here.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Sorry, but the moment you suggested players should actually pay rent for a house in FFXIV, I couldn't take you seriously. Some of you claim that the current system is such a disaster, but then you propose ideas that are literally 100x worse. What are you trying to accomplish here.

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To be honest, I'd support a rent/property tax type system over boosting purchase prices like some players want. It's more akin to getting a mortgage - make a down payment then pay the rest over time instead of needing a huge amount of gil up front. It also ends up a more effective gil sink because it's taking more gil out of the economy over time than the single upfront purchase fee does.

It's not a disastrous idea. The disaster would only happen if poorly implemented. Still, I don't think it's something SE is going to consider let alone do at this point unless they can't come up with different housing solutions and need to find a way to lower demand for what is already in the game.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

To be honest, I'd support a rent/property tax type system over boosting purchase prices like some players want. It's more akin to getting a mortgage - make a down payment then pay the rest over time instead of needing a huge amount of gil up front. It also ends up a more effective gil sink because it's taking more gil out of the economy over time than the single upfront purchase fee does.

It's not a disastrous idea. The disaster would only happen if poorly implemented. Still, I don't think it's something SE is going to consider let alone do at this point unless they can't come up with different housing solutions and need to find a way to lower demand for what is already in the game.

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In order to stop their houses from being demolished, homeowners have to pay £72.99 (€116.91) a year. If careful, they can get away with only paying for 9 months if they choose to take breaks or stop playing the game but want to keep their house. (they would also need to log in and touch base)

They do not have the luxury of only paying for 4 months a year in order to keep up with story.

I still maintain the best MMO game I've played for housing was White Knight Chronicles.

there is no need to have housing cost real money, a game that came out in 2004 was able to give EVERYONE houses with no cost of real money. that game was everquest 2.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Thank you. Apartments are dirt cheap and are literally everywhere on my server, on top of that, they don't hold you hostage (unlike houses), and will always be there for you no matter how long you're away from the game. I don't think the players who keep complaining about housing are ACTUALLY upset about not having their own space, they're just upset a few other players have something they don't (and something that isn't even all that I might add, as a home owner myself, I honestly just use my house as a gil sink and the occasional gardening).

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Or some people want the outdoor space/gardening and more than 1 floor to decorate. But nice generalization

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Or some people want the outdoor space/gardening and more than 1 floor to decorate. But nice generalization

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I know you won't like my answer, but I gotta keep it real: that stuff is all extra. Just because people want something, doesn't mean they should be guaranteed to have it. But let's say that they actually granted your wish and expanded upon Apartments, you do realize they would also have to add some other cool things to houses right? Since they're intended to be the superior housing options when compared to apartments.

Houses and apartments should not have equal features and amenities, there has to be some incentive to fork over those millions for your own estate. Not trying to be a jerk here, just sharing my opinion, but I honestly believe that most (key word: most) players who resent and complain about the housing in this game are upset simply because a few players have something they don't. Because let's be honest here, housing is definitely not needed to make your way through this game, especially if you have an apartment. It just really seems like the root of this issue is jealousy/envy...which I honestly don't understand because Housing is truly not even all that. It's just a gil-sink.

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Make Housing if that needs to be a thing that costs like 1 Dollar/Euro rent a half year, thats 2 Dollar/Euro a year, if that use only 1 million active players theb does earn housibg 2 million cash that should be more than enough money alone already to upgrade servers with more than enough bandwith to ensure that everyone can have own houses who actually want to have one,

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Yeah, but.. Well, sorry to tell you this, but..

People already pay for their housing. It's called their sub fee. Doubt people would be okay with people having to pay more to keep what they earned in-game. What about the people who don't have that much income they can throw away? Well, you just alienated them. Kudos!

Sure does suck when you claim "for the people" then fall into these sorts of pits. Want some rope?

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Make Housing if that needs to be a thing that costs like 1 Dollar/Euro rent a half year, thats 2 Dollar/Euro a year, if that use only 1 million active players theb does earn housibg 2 million cash that should be more than enough money alone already to upgrade servers with more than enough bandwith to ensure that everyone can have own houses who actually want to have one, because only due to that feature being there, doen't mean that all players want also to use it.
Not every player must be into housing and likes it, ther are also alot of player which don't care themself about housing in FF14 at all.

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Why on earth would you suggest something like this?!
Has the games as services culture permeated so much that now you're asking to give SE more money - like some sort of abused spouse.

If they wanted to add more houses they would. If they wanted to open more servers the would. I think it's safe to assume they want to spend their money elsewhere.

Fact is, the way it is now just sucks . The game just offers not enough plots, that everyone on a server can have a house, who is interested into one.

Why on earth did I suggest that you ask, because to give the game more options of income, because if income isn't here the root issue, then I don't know why this game is unable for 6 years now too offer dedicated Housing Servers for the world servers, so that players on the various world servers have enough bandwith space for unstanced individual playerhousing. And if I pay now 11€ for a month of playtime, ir 12€, is absolutely no big, deal, complaing about 1 €\$ is pathetic, if it would make it possible that everybody can have therefore own individual houses without space limilations.
All just a matter of priorities and looking at it from a costs/service relationship what you get for your money.

Its just natural, that if we ask for more service, that we most likely will have to pay somewhen/where/how for that, be it either through the sub, or via buying an expansion. We can't expect from SE to get a solution to the housing problem just for free >_>

And my comparison there was just my way of saying, that I'd be willing to pay monthly that 1€ more, if that in theory would be already enough, when enough people do that, to warrant that all player can experience a proper housing system in this game. 1€ more doesn't hurt, when it is spent for something you like and you want to see it getting improved.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Yeah, but.. Well, sorry to tell you this, but..

People already pay for their housing. It's called their sub fee. Doubt people would be okay with people having to pay more to keep what they earned in-game. What about the people who don't have that much income they can throw away? Well, you just alienated them. Kudos!

Sure does suck when you claim "for the people" then fall into these sorts of pits. Want some rope?

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The sub fee isn't for the house. The sub fee is for access to the game servers.

If the sub fee was for the house, then every player would have one and wouldn't have to pay any gil to get it in the first place.

If someone is dumb enough to keep paying a sub fee to retain a house in a game they aren't otherwise playing, that's their choice.

I don't agree that getting or keeping a house should be a real money purchase, but a gil fee to retain a limited resource would make sense.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

I know you won't like my answer, but I gotta keep it real: that stuff is all extra. Just because people want something, doesn't mean they should be guaranteed to have it. But let's say that they actually granted your wish and expanded upon Apartments, you do realize they would also have to add some other cool things to houses right? Since they're intended to be the superior housing options when compared to apartments.

Houses and apartments should not have equal features and amenities, there has to be some incentive to fork over those millions for your own estate. Not trying to be a jerk here, just sharing my opinion, but I honestly believe that most (key word: most) players who resent and complain about the housing in this game are upset simply because a few players have something they don't. Because let's be honest here, housing is definitely not needed to make your way through this game, especially if you have an apartment. It just really seems like the root of this issue is jealousy/envy...which I honestly don't understand because Housing is truly not even all that. It's just a gil-sink.

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There you go. Still generalizing with nothing to prove your point. Calling everyone...sorry "most" people who are complaining jealous is just wow...
People arent complaining because the system itself is aids, and theyd like a system that benefits EVERYONE...no no its because others have something that they cant have. Are you serious???? You have to be a troll..

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The sub fee isn't for the house. The sub fee is for access to the game servers.

If the sub fee was for the house, then every player would have one and wouldn't have to pay any gil to get it in the first place.

If someone is dumb enough to keep paying a sub fee to retain a house in a game they aren't otherwise playing, that's their choice.

I don't agree that getting or keeping a house should be a real money purchase, but a gil fee to retain a limited resource would make sense.

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Thing is, that could just as easily punish the people who do keep a sub active on a month-per-month basis. Just because they aren't logging in consistently doesn't mean they want to suddenly lose their house because they couldn't find the hours to pay an arbitrary gil tax. It'd just rub people the wrong way all around and necessitate even more time that they may not have. Should they be punished because of that after they've already gone through the effort of plunking down millions for the plot?

And while this may not be an issue for some--I'm an active crafter and gil's no real obstacle for me--it'll still hit those who aren't as great at making a digital income. Especially since to make the gil tax a feasible idea, you'd need to make it in the ballpark of a sizable chunk in order to push it as a legitimate worry. I play a game to get away from the idea of paying taxes; I don't need it permeating my pretend-y fun times, too.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

To be honest, I'd support a rent/property tax type system over boosting purchase prices like some players want. It's more akin to getting a mortgage - make a down payment then pay the rest over time instead of needing a huge amount of gil up front. It also ends up a more effective gil sink because it's taking more gil out of the economy over time than the single upfront purchase fee does.

It's not a disastrous idea. The disaster would only happen if poorly implemented. Still, I don't think it's something SE is going to consider let alone do at this point unless they can't come up with different housing solutions and need to find a way to lower demand for what is already in the game.

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That's a terrible idea to me, just make the purchase price higher. But once someone buys a house they should own it unless they reach the demo timer. If someone grinds out gathering or crafting, or whatever they need to do to raise the gil, they shouldn't be able to turn around and lose their house because they can't put a lot of hours into the game for a time or want to play aspects of it that may not provide them much gil.

I spent almost every gil I had on my first house, and then I went and finished the Realm Reborn storyline, and all of the quests to get the HW. I barely had any furniture. Should I have lost my house because I wanted to take a break from grinding out gil and do something else in the game?

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

they shouldn't be able to turn around and lose their house because they can't put a lot of hours into the game for a time or want to play aspects of it that may not provide them much gil.

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When it's a limited resource, someone who only intermittently plays the game shouldn't have priority to own a house over someone who is actively playing and would make much more frequent use of it.

Absolutely they should be losing their house under the limited quantity system if they can't be bothered to log in for a few hours each month.

But that takes things back to why an improved instance housing system would be better. No one would have to lose their house when it's stops being a limited resource so someone who's not playing doesn't block someone who is playing from owning one.

Also, why did you bother buying a house when you were so strapped for gil you couldn't even afford to furnish it? That's dumb consumerism, spending what was a fortune to you on a luxury item you don't need and couldn't afford to maintain. You would have been better off learning how to earn and save gil.

If the system required you to pay a monthly fee to continue to own the house, would have you bothered buying it in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

When it's a limited resource, someone who only intermittently plays the game shouldn't have priority to own a house over someone who is actively playing and would make much more frequent use of it.

Absolutely they should be losing their house under the limited quantity system if they can't be bothered to log in for a few hours each month.

But that takes things back to why an improved instance housing system would be better. No one would have to lose their house when it's stops being a limited resource so someone who's not playing doesn't block someone who is playing from owning one.

Also, why did you bother buying a house when you were so strapped for gil you couldn't even afford to furnish it? That's dumb consumerism, spending what was a fortune to you on a luxury item you don't need and couldn't afford to maintain. You would have been better off learning how to earn and save gil.

If the system required you to pay a monthly fee to continue to own the house, would have you bothered buying it in the first place?

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I wasn't unable to maintain the house, it was a choice to do something else. When I did the home is where the heart is quest, I said I'm getting a house and put everything on hold to accomplish that goal. My first jobs to level 50 were crafting and gathering. When I got my house I took a break from all that gil grinding and got back to the story. The only crafting and gathering I did was gear.

If I wanted to take a break from this much gathering and crafting everyday. COnstantly watching the MB, I was well within my rights.

https://i.imgur.com/pytNRQC.png

After I unlocked HW I went back and finished decorating my house. But that's how the game goes, in ebbs and flows, whether it be your playtime, or what you're focusing on in game. People shouldn't be forced to have to continually keep making gil once they've purchased their house if they want to do other things with their time in-game. Or if life happens and they can't put a lot of hours into the game they should be penalized dealing with things so that they have no house when they do have more time to play. It's not giving players priority it's letting them keep what they earned when they were putting in the time. Just because someone new comes along that can play a lot, doesn't mean that veterans who put a lot of time in prior should be walked over because they may not be able to do so now. The whole just because I can play right now and you can't I should get priority is nonsense.

Also, I need no help in making and saving gil. I made a plan from the start to level crafters and gatherers first, and I've gone from that small house, to a medium to a large, as well as geared most classes in the game hardly investing any gil from day one.

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

I wasn't unable to maintain the house, it was a choice to do something else. When I did the home is where the heart is quest, I said I'm getting a house and put everything on hold to accomplish that goal.

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The quest doesn't say you're getting a house. It said that houses are being sold to adventurers without going into detail about how to get one unless you take the time to talk to the Resident Caretaker as the quest suggests. There was no stated guarantee that you'd be able to get one.

I'm glad you did manage to get one after you made it your goal to do so.

But you still haven't answered my question about what you would have done if there was a monthly fee required to retain the house at the time you were ready to purchase. Would it have influenced your decision so you didn't buy or would you have accepted it was going to be that little bit of extra effort to keep the house?

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

Just because someone new comes along that can play a lot, doesn't mean that veterans who put a lot of time in prior should be walked over because they may not be able to do so now. The whole just because I can play right now and you can't I should get priority is nonsense.

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It's not nonsense when a limited resource is involved.

If houses didn't demo, the majority of them would be owned by people who stopped playing the game years ago. Those of us who came later would be out of luck, stuck staring at unused houses owned by people who don't play and likely won't be coming back.

There has to be a form of demolition when housing isn't unlimited, and that means people who have quit playing need to lose out so those who are playing get their chance.

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

I've gone from that small house, to a medium to a large, as well as geared most classes in the game hardly investing any gil from day one.

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So then you know better than to say you'd have to stop playing the rest of the game to focus on making gil if housing had a monthly fee.

The game throws a lot of gil at you passively through normal game play, and that normal game play presents even more opportunities to make gil if you take an extra half hour a week to convert the tomestone and other items you get into gil.

The issue you seem to have is the difference on "people who play a lot more should get priority" thing. That is a minefield so thorough, even a MILLIMETER of a miss-step will turn you into giblets. So here we go!

Player A has played since A Realm Reborn. Has been pretty active since then but with the recent launch of Shadowbringers, life-stuff has come up and taken them away from the game, making their gametime maybe an hour or two every few WEEKS.

Player B has played since Stormblood and doesn't have any life-related connections or emergencies and, for the sake of this. Say he works from home, or doesn't have a job at the moment. But can play to his hearts content.

In your mentality, Player B should have priority over a housing plot, purely because he has more time on his hands. That should NEVER be the case. Nor should a player be penalized for getting a house, even when only the most popular NA servers are the ones effected. Keep in mind that Final Fantasy XIV is a game at its heart and is usually played to act as entertainment, a distraction or some way to get away from real-life stresses. I can guarantee that if they added "Housing Taxes" as a solution, the housing system would be a deadzone. Purely because XIV would have failed at the first hurdle. Nobody (that I know of, at least) would actively sink time into a game-system that reminds you of reality and its stresses.

It would work well as a gil-sink. But the richest players would merely lose a single drop of their earnings, while people who can't earn much lose their entire purses because the Gil Average is so astronomically high. once again alienating a large chunk of the playerbase.

For people claiming everyone deserves a house, you sure are coming up with ways to screw over others, huh..

EDIT: As for the "Your sub fee lets you play the game, nothing more" defense. While technically correct, the sub fee also pays for any mandatory systems the game has in place. Any EXTRA stuff (more retainers as an example) would be tacked on the side. in her case, going with your desire to tax the people that own a house, you fall into a pit.

Housing is optional, yes. But once you buy a house, that housing tax becomes a mandatory system. Which means it MUST be covered under the Sub-fees original pricing, otherwise they will shoot themselves in the foot by giving plenty of players more than enough reason to avoid FCs and Personal Housing, only making it a deadzone even quicker with only the richest of players able to own the houses and be unaffected by the taxing system. (See above for the reason) And yes. If this "Housing tax" scenario becomes truth, then FCs would get heavier taxing to accomodate. Otherwise you're just promoting Shell FCs to a "must-have" priority. Something XIV has enough issues with as it is.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The quest doesn't say you're getting a house. It said that houses are being sold to adventurers without going into detail about how to get one.

But you still haven't answered my question about what you would have done if there was a monthly fee required to retain the house at the time you were ready to purchase.


It's not nonsense when a limited resource is involved.

If houses didn't demo, the majority of them would be owned by people who stopped playing the game years ago. Those of us who came later would be out of luck, stuck staring at unused houses owned by people who don't play and likely won't be coming back.

There has to be a form of demolition when housing isn't unlimited, and that means people who have quit playing need to lose out so those who are playing get their chance.


So then you know better than to say you'd have to stop playing the rest of the game to focus on making gil if housing had a monthly fee.
.

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Man, you look at statements and just make wild assumptions.

Where did I say a house was promised to me? All I said was after I saw houses during the quest I made it my goal to get one. If houses would have came with a tax I would have still gotten one, why would I not have? I had all the means I needed to make gil. Also, no one said you have to stop doing everything else to make gil. I said after focusing on making gil in the way I wanted a break for it for a while.

Also, since you want to talk about bad consumerism as if this is real life. If we want to act like this game should real-life principles, houses would never be this cheap with this demand. They would be closer to what they were in the beginning and we wouldn't even have this issue. Taxes in real life go towards something, they're investments in your neighbourhood and city. They serve no purpose here other than a means to take something someone bought.

I also never said people who have quit the game should keep their houses, but that's not we're talking about here. Let's just say what is really going on. You have people who don't have something trying to think of ways to take it from people that have it, even though they're active players. If you don't play the amount of hours we deem acceptable, you lose your house. If you don't pay some arbitrary tax amount that goes towards nothing, you lose your house. Do we really want some type of arbitrary minimum hour threshold to keep your property? If you want to go play Greedfall, or Jedi Fallen Order, you come back and your house is gone because you didn't put in 20-30 hours a week in FF XIV. Like I said it's ridiculous. We shouldn't be trying to come up with ways to take things from players who are playing the game.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

There you go. Still generalizing with nothing to prove your point. Calling everyone...sorry "most" people who are complaining jealous is just wow...
People arent complaining because the system itself is aids, and theyd like a system that benefits EVERYONE...no no its because others have something that they cant have. Are you serious???? You have to be a troll..

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I mean, I've just speaking based on what I've personally seen. I'd say it's more of a prediction rather than me stating it's some cold hard fact, which I don't feel like is unreasonable to do. It seems like that point in particular really got to you though, seeing how your entire response only addressed that. Relax.

And also, your argument is weak. So, you believe that people are complaining because the sysyem is bad (or "aids", I guess) since it doesn't benefit everybody. But, here's the thing it does. Apartments are literally the answer for people who'd like a house but aren't able to afford one/can't find an open plot/etc. On top of this, if you join an FC with a house (but obvioisly this shouldn't be the ONLY reason you join an FC, it's rather shallow) it'll basically be yours as well. You'll most likely have access to the garden, orchestrion, and maybe even redecorating if FC lead is chill. Having your own personal estate in this game is not a right bro, it's a luxury, it's a privilege. I know it is hard to hear, but that's obviously how SE has designed them. I mean, you literally lose the house if you don't play for a certain amount of time.

And no, I'm not a troll. Just because someone disagrees with you and has different beliefs doesn't mean they're trolling you. No offense guy, but you seem kind of immature. And I don't think any conversation we have will go anywhere.

Get an apartment dude, they're fine. If you're on Crystal and you can't afford one, hit up "The Protector" on Goblin. They cost like 500k right? I will give you 250k towards it.

I had mine for YEARS before I bought my own house, and it was perfect for me. And to be honest, if it came down to it, I'd rather lose my house than lose my apartment if I had to choose one.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

I mean, I've just speaking based on what I've personally seen. I'd say it's more of a prediction rather than me stating it's some cold hard fact, which I don't feel like is unreasonable to do. It seems like that point in particular really got to you though, seeing how your entire response only addressed that. Relax.

And also, your argument is weak. So, you believe that people are complaining because the sysyem is bad (or "aids", I guess) since it doesn't benefit everybody. But, here's the thing it does. Apartments are literally the answer for people who'd like a house but aren't able to afford one/can't find an open plot/etc. On top of this, if you join an FC with a house (but obvioisly this shouldn't be the ONLY reason you join an FC, it's rather shallow) it'll basically be yours as well. You'll most likely have access to the garden, orchestrion, and maybe even redecorating if FC lead is chill. Having your own personal estate in this game is not a right bro, it's a luxury, it's a privilege. I know it is hard to hear, but that's obviously how SE has designed them. I mean, you literally lose the house if you don't play for a certain amount of time.

And no, I'm not a troll. Just because someone disagrees with you and has different beliefs doesn't mean they're trolling you. No offense guy, but you seem kind of immature. And I don't think any conversation we have will go anywhere.

Get an apartment dude, they're fine. If you're on Crystal and you can't afford one, hit up "The Protector" on Goblin. They cost like 500k right? I will give you 250k towards it.

I had mine for YEARS before I bought my own house, and it was perfect for me. And to be honest, if it came down to it, I'd rather lose my house than lose my apartment if I had to choose one.

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I have an apartment already so yeah...also why would I accept gil from you?
I focused on that comment because it seemed important to...(is that a problem?). Joining an fc doesnt fix the issue in any way shape or form when you want these things to be yours. Not shared. You cant put value on something for someone else, like alot of people here tend to do. Housing isnt for everyone to have? Ok fine. They need to do something to satisfy those who want but cant have. ie.instanced housing, sharable apartments, upgradable apartments etc...
If telling someone they must be a troll makes you immature...then thats a first to me. You generalized what most people who complain about housing are based off of only the people youve seen as jealous. That is off. But I digress.
In regards to your last statement. Thats good for YOU. Not everyone wants just an apartment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I have an apartment already so yeah...also why would I accept gil from you?
I focused on that comment because it seemed important to...(is that a problem?). Joining an fc doesnt fix the issue in any way shape or form when you want these things to be yours. Not shared. You cant put value on something for someone else, like alot of people here tend to do. Housing isnt for everyone to have? Ok fine. They need to do something to satisfy those who want but cant have. ie.instanced housing, sharable apartments, upgradable apartments etc...
If telling someone they must be a troll makes you immature...then thats a first to me. You generalized what most people who complain about housing are based off of only the people youve seen as jealous. That is off. But I digress.
In regards to your last statement. Thats good for YOU. Not everyone wants just an apartment.

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Lol...okay, I'm literally here offering to help you out and you respond with rudeness and you try to make me feel dumb about it. I don't even feel bad that you don't have a house now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Lol...okay, I'm literally here offering to help you out and you respond with rudeness and you try to make me feel dumb about it. I don't even feel bad that you don't have a house now.

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Rude? Because I said why would I take gil from you?
Come on now...why would I be here talking about housing if I didn't have the gil to get one (let alone enough for an apartment)? It wouldnt make sense on my part. No one is being rude. Blunt? Sure. But if thats how you choose to take it by all means. Do that.
Also, im not looking for folks to feel bad. Im just here to state my opinion like everyone else.

I find it interesting that whenever people say instanced housing other people will respond we have that already, but I always felt it was clear that they meant unlimited (feeling) housing where every single person can have one. Which we don't have. There are not even unlimited apartments, though there is quite A LOT of them. But to add apartments are not houses- and many people intentionally say instanced housing system not instanced apartment system, which are again not unlimited. In multiple ways, in quantity, location theme, location itself, and size, each limitation could be a fairly large issue and each issue can absolutely compound into the other for a less than maximally desirable experience. So every time I see "we have them" I have to wonder is it really that uncommon to read instanced housing as like many other mmorpgs have it (where there might be a technical real world limitation but one that players never see, so it feels "unlimited")- because "we already have it" is very much untrue under that interpretation and interpretation I find exceptionally consistent among people who ask for it (as of way of asking for housing that isn't so limited, like some other mmorpgs, specifically houses too- not apartments).

I can't imagine everyone is being dishonest when they say that we already have it.. but it always surprises me. I try to add what I mean when I say instanced just to prevent that miscommunication but still find it shocking it exists. I desperately want instanced housing, under that interpretation of 'unlimited'. As I find the limitations of a non-unlimited system a bit disappointing, if every single person wants a Shirogane house when it comes out then go for it, if every person wants a large then I think so shall it be, If Goblet is in this month then it's in, if we all go Ishgard then we all go Ishgard. I understand there are MMORPGs that relish in that limited fighting for resources experience (EVE/other hardcore mmorpgs, limited things work well there). FFXIV however is not a sandbox hardcore rpg.. it's a themepark mmorpg. And that is not said with insult, I very much like this game as a whole and I do recommend it if people ask (though warn it's a long journey if they're focused on "catching up" lol)- I want it to be themepark-ish.

I wouldn't say FFXIV's is the worst, I've seen worse lol, and I think the objects that fill the system are fantastic, but I would say the system itself is probably one of, if not the only, thing that remains in FFXIV that makes me actively frown. An unlimited, instanced housing, system with the theme and spirit FFXIV has would be amazing... Although I understand (in a vague sense) to change the system is potentially massive amounts of money and time, if they can "fix" (imo) the system here then I'd be so grateful and if they can't then I really hope they understand players when they say "I want an instanced system" for when the design their next MMORPG because if they misunderstand it like I see sometimes here. . . Well please don't misunderstand it SE.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I find it interesting that whenever people say instanced housing other people will respond we have that already, but I always felt it was clear that they meant unlimited (feeling) housing where every single person can have one.

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It's bad to make assumptions about what another person means because those assumptions get influenced by personal experience and desire. Far better for the poster to be specific in the first place since that limits the room for assumption.

Players need to remember we're talking to the development team through translators. Translators can't make assumptions about what the poster means. They have to translate what is written as accurately as possible. We also need to remember this is a world wide forum, not a regional forum. English speaking players post here regardless of where they live or what world they play on.

If we want to make our actual concerns known, then we need to be accurate in posting them.

Complaining about a lack of housing is going to get ignored. SE can see there is plenty available housing when they look at totals across all world.

Complaining about a lack of houses is going to get ignored. SE can see there is plenty of available houses when they look at totals across all worlds.

Complaining about a lack of houses on the NA worlds will get noticed and in fact has been. SE acknowledged during one of the June Live Letters that there is a shortage of houses on the NA worlds compared to player demand and that they would be discussing the situation internally after Shadowbringers was launched.

If we're going to our concerns addressed, then we need to be specific in stating them instead of assuming others understand what we really want.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's bad to make assumptions about what another person means because those assumptions get influenced by personal experience and desire. Far better for the poster to be specific in the first place since that limits the room for assumption.

Players need to remember we're talking to the development team through translators. Translators can't make assumptions about what the poster means. They have to translate what is written as accurately as possible. We also need to remember this is a world wide forum, not a regional forum. English speaking players post here regardless of where they live or what world they play on.

If we want to make our actual concerns known, then we need to be accurate in posting them.

Complaining about a lack of housing is going to get ignored. SE can see there is plenty available housing when they look at totals across all world.

Complaining about a lack of houses is going to get ignored. SE can see there is plenty of available houses when they look at totals across all worlds.

Complaining about a lack of houses on the NA worlds will get noticed and in fact has been. SE acknowledged during one of the June Live Letters that there is a shortage of houses on the NA worlds compared to player demand and that they would be discussing the situation internally after Shadowbringers was launched.

If we're going to our concerns addressed, then we need to be specific in stating them instead of assuming others understand what we really want.

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Oh yeah, that's why I've added what I mean as I say it whenever I do say. As I am now aware of many misunderstandings in this request, "I want instanced housing" "we already have it" - this is almost always a miscommunication and both parties are not talking about the same thing. Meaning probably an issue on both parts (assume, that famous saying to assume- makes a.. out of you and me lol). Half the reason I posted that wasn't for people here but hopes it was translated if the miscommunication still exists in SE (although I doubt it, but it's possible since I still see it to this day on the forums lol).

I merely wanted to say how I'm shocked this miscommunication exists since when people say it they all almost mean the same thing (very high accuracy/consistency of intent), so you'd think that when people who use it almost always mean the same thing that the miscommunication would be seldom and quickly corrected. I don't change using this wording because I think it's used consistently by the people who mean what they mean, but I do explain it to ensure the same page among what I'm saying is translated as well as others reading it.

So I'm not disagreeing on the need for clarity and that clearly people are assuming things vs understanding what each other mean; although, I also believe sometimes this is done on purpose to damage the conversation. Still am a bit shocked that it's so common when people who use the wording are very consistent on what they intended to mean. They'd likely not be asking for what we already have so you'd think people could also derive this meaning on the fly... but it's not the case lol.

Also just to add to your complaining about lack of housing point (mid post part)- I tend to mean more issues than that on a personal level when I post, not that you're saying what my complaint is/was but since we're on the topic of clarity I wanted to be clear (:D lol). I have a lot more issue with the system than just quantity (and I don't mean to say that like it's an easy fix, or easy to even make, I'm sure this stuff is hard, and even harder when you were coming out of ARR at mach 8 trying to design as fast as possible).

Since even if you could add 1 of each area until there is literally exactly 1 house for everyone (person and FC), I'd still think it had major issues since that means people couldn't switch to the new zones, sizes, or locations within, if they wanted. It would mean they're stuck in a specific size and in a specific area of a specific theme'd location, and I want a system that allows players to be where they want in a size that they want. On top of that I find the neighborhood benefits are outweighed by the cons it asks in limitations, like size of yard or object choices- so personally I'd like to see some personal zone spaces on top of the freedom of area, size, and location. Noting that I am not seeking destruction of the current system for those who like it, though to add that personal zone spaces can easily be social too and those afraid of losing that probably needn't be (especially if the MMO systems encourage it, Wildstar housing had quite a vibrant housing community).

Not asking for largest size to be free or easy either as that's sometimes assumed from my arguments, I do believe in upgrade paths (and housing should be a long smooth one). Though I also think it would be very smart to start players off earlier with a small room free, like FFXI, and encourage them to upgrade it over time like another type of character progression (to the point you've got a large and all that).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

how can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing but this game cannot?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Oh yeah, that's why I've added what I mean as I say it whenever I do say. As I am now aware of many misunderstandings in this request, "I want instanced housing" "we already have it" - this is almost always a miscommunication and both parties are not talking about the same thing. Meaning probably an issue on both parts (assume, that famous saying to assume- makes a.. out of you and me lol). Half the reason I posted that wasn't for people here but hopes it was translated if the miscommunication still exists in SE (although I doubt it, but it's possible since I still see it to this day on the forums lol).

I merely wanted to say how I'm shocked this miscommunication exists since when people say it they all almost mean the same thing (very high accuracy/consistency of intent), so you'd think that when people who use it almost always mean the same thing that the miscommunication would be seldom and quickly corrected. I don't change using this wording because I think it's used consistently by the people who mean what they mean, but I do explain it to ensure the same page among what I'm saying is translated as well as others reading it.

So I'm not disagreeing on the need for clarity and that clearly people are assuming things vs understanding what each other mean; although, I also believe sometimes this is done on purpose to damage the conversation. Still am a bit shocked that it's so common when people who use the wording are very consistent on what they intended to mean. They'd likely not be asking for what we already have so you'd think people could also derive this meaning on the fly... but it's not the case lol.

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When someone asks a completely obvious question like "how can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing but this game cannot?", then I think it's valid to provide an obvious answer.

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Originally Posted by Edax

The answer to your question is that this game already has instanced housing, it's called Apartments. They were added in patch 3.4 in 2016. You can read more about them in this wiki:
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Apartments

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Yes, I know they are referring to instanced "houses" but even that prompts an obvious answer:

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Originally Posted by Edax

Because Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. controls the intellectual property and chose not to implement your preferred housing system. It's the same reason you can't fly around space in Battleships like Eve Online despite Eve Online being a game from 2003. Square Enix choose not to implement it for FFXIV.

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It maybe damaging to the conversation, but at the same time why would someone start a thread asking something that is completely obvious? It reads like people whining over something that was already given to them. Instanced housing exists in the game, players aren't completely left out, this already seems like progress but so many of these whine threads act like they don't even exist. This is why I personally feel people should be reminded to cherish what they already have. Most of these anti-housing threads are reductionist to begin with, which is why I feel they are so deserving of reductionist answers to their questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edax

When someone asks a completely obvious question like "how can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing but this game cannot?", then I think it's valid to provide an obvious answer.

Yes, I know they are referring to instanced "houses" but even that prompts an obvious answer:

It maybe damaging to the conversation, but at the same time why would someone start a thread asking something that is completely obvious? It reads like people whining over something that was already given to them. Instanced housing exists in the game, players aren't completely left out, this already seems like progress but so many of these whine threads act like they don't even exist. This is why I personally feel people should be reminded to cherish what they already have. Most of these anti-housing threads are reductionist to begin with, which is why I feel they are so deserving of reductionist answers to their questions.

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I do understand that questions like "how can she slap?" are not the best questions if you wanted initiate change or at least good conversation (questions like that get a lot of "because she can.. what are you asking me?"), but I would disagree with you that it's already been given once request is understood (what's been given not equal to what is asked for). When instanced housing is requested, what is intended, what is meant to be desired, is not what exists, instanced housing as they ask for it is not what FFXIV has. And as one does when you want for something, you go and ask for/show desire for something as one should be able to- to be told what is asked for already is given is inaccurate (although perhaps desire could be worded more clearly if it's creating miscommunication, Jojoya is right that we should try to be clear as possible especially as these things go across translated lines).

So I can see how some wordings would/could annoy you and you may feel like they don't deserve an answer that you want to give, but I would disagree at the point that it's been delivered or that they can't ask for it even if there has been shown resistance (by the dev team) thus far. As a sort of example it was asked for a long time to allow us to queue and chocobo at the same time and SE was like "impossible", yet it was shown to be well worth the long game ask anyways. As chocobos are much better now that you can queue and use them (quality of the companions greatly improving, and of course this isn't the only example where persistence and showing the value the players have for something paid off- personally I'm even thinking further to their next MMORPG if they can't do something about it here).

If you wish people were less exaggerated or had better questions, fine and fair enough lol, but still the bottom line is that they're asking for something that doesn't exist currently and at least personally it doesn't seem like it should be hard to deduce that's what they're asking for either (given context and examples of other MMORPGs that have been able achieve the requested result). So if they clearly meant maroon when they said a dark purple red, I guess I find it unnecessary to clog up the information further. Although to be fair it could be possible it's not clear, which is why just in case I always (now) clarify what I mean about systems I'd like to see (now or in another mmorpg).

Also while not really important to the point I would say these are not anti-housing threads in the slightest, if we're at least attempting to be overly clear and not ask / pass silly questions like "how can she slap?" lol. Clearly people want housing to be more accessible and flexible than it is currently, if anything these are very much pro-housing threads but anti-FFXIV's current system. :P

Or I suppose I'd say in another way, while admittedly addictive, if you feel they've worded poorly and yet you understand their poorly worded desires does it help to give them a poorly worded answer vs improving the understanding and attempting to move the conversation to something more constructive? You're allowed to say it's more fun to respond purposefully fire with like fire.. but I just think that's a bad deal in the long run for communication ("I know what they meant, I dislike how they said or that they made it a really messy point so I'm going to knowingly further contribute to it being a mess"). Also of course to be fair and to add not everyone who posts pro-house (;) , "instanced house" lol) is posting in good faith either, some of what might come off as bad is just a bit unregulated passion but I'm sure some are more of a bad faith chaos / salt farm; although, having a similar passion/desire for instanced housing (as I've described it) and wanting to actively discourage the current system as a preferred system even if it only is taken into consideration for the next mmorpg.. it might be harder for me to see bad faith actors that look similar due to my bias.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edax

This is why I personally feel people should be reminded to cherish what they already have.

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While I think this can become dangerous if people start to basically go in the direction of "SE deserves my money and doesn't need to work for it" (an argument I don't feel you tried to make), I do agree that we should remember the good things and also tell SE about them. Just hearing people complain non-stop probably doesn't help one's enthusiasm for work. Definitely remember to appreciate things, just also don't turn it into "we should be thankful of X pitiful thing" lol (not saying anything is pitiful, it was only meant as a fill in the blank sentence). Not trying to slippery slope you as again I don't think you were saying people are not allowed to criticize, but I bet you could also imagine that argument (of needing to be thankful what you have) being used in a sort of white knight environment where everything is gold even if it's really really not "all gold". Actually that's why I made sure to mention I think SE's objects in the housing are fantastic, and I truly mean that. I do want them to know largely I think the game is amazing and I also try to take part in compliment threads, but I also don't want to be afraid to criticize what I feel like should be (obviously objective on what is good/bad lol XD). Of course not every thread that suggests something is criticism either, probably obvious but I felt to add it anyways.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also while not really important to the point I would say these are not anti-housing threads in the slightest

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Lets look at some of these thread titles:
"Worst Housing System I have ever seen" (THIS VERY THREAD)
"Housing System cannot be adequately fixed"
"Taking my money elsewhere"
"The Housing System is Trash"
"Dreadful Housing System"
"How can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing and this game cannot?"

https://i.imgur.com/9vofiZg.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

While I think this can become dangerous if people start to basically go in the direction of "SE deserves my money and doesn't need to work for it" (an argument I don't feel you tried to make), I do agree that we should remember the good things and also tell SE about them. Just hearing people complain non-stop probably doesn't help one's enthusiasm for work. Definitely remember to appreciate things, just also don't turn it into "we should be thankful of X pitiful thing" lol (not saying anything is pitiful, it was only meant as a fill in the blank sentence). Not trying to slippery slope you as again I don't think you were saying people are not allowed to criticize, but I bet you could also imagine that argument (of needing to be thankful what you have) being used in a sort of white knight environment where everything is gold even if it's really really not "all gold". Actually that's why I made sure to mention I think SE's objects in the housing are fantastic, and I truly mean that. I do want them to know largely I think the game is amazing and I also try to take part in compliment threads, but I also don't want to be afraid to criticize what I feel like should be (obviously objective on what is good/bad lol XD). Of course not every thread that suggests something is criticism either, probably obvious but I felt to add it anyways.

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If feels like the vast majority of housing discussions ended up being reduced to owning a house. For those whom already own homes, there's very little to talk about anymore because few actually want to talk about the housing system anymore, the conversation devolves to talking about the darn placards which is only a very small part of the system. It's not that people shouldn't be afraid to complain, it's that the placard complaints have drowned out all the other housing conversations. I'm a big housing advocate but it's just so tiring to read all these repetitive, reductionist rant posts. What is there even to say anymore?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edax

Lets look at some of these thread titles:
"Worst Housing System I have ever seen" (THIS VERY THREAD)
"Housing System cannot be adequately fixed"
"Taking my money elsewhere"
"The Housing System is Trash"
"Dreadful Housing System"
"How can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing and this game cannot?"

https://i.imgur.com/9vofiZg.jpg

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You missed the rest of that quote :(. These people want houses, so they're not anti-housing. I know what you mean but if you were going to give people silly answers for what you felt were silly questions I thought it only fair to point out these are not anti-housing threads. They want housing, thus not anti-housing. They're anti-FFXIV housing, they want something different. They're not the same though, but like I said I understand what you're trying to say- they're definitely anti-something lol.

Yes people are disgruntled and yes they are anti-FFXIV's system, that doesn't mean they're against housing though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edax

If feels like the vast majority of housing discussions ended up being reduced to owning a house. For those whom already own homes, there's very little to talk about anymore because few actually want to talk about the housing system anymore, the conversation devolves to talking about the darn placards which is only a very small part of the system. It's not that people shouldn't be afraid to complain, it's that the placard complaints have drowned out all the other housing conversations. I'm a big housing advocate but it's just so tiring to read all these repetitive, reductionist rant posts. What is there even to say anymore?

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Would recommend if the forums get tiring to stop reading the ones that tire you- just hardcore nope out of threads :D (I do), the forums are never going to change in that regard lol. Beyond that people will naturally spend more time complaining here (hopefully constructive criticism) than celebrating, because if you're happy or at least apathetic it's more likely you wont bother saying anything at all (which is a bit sad I guess, but generally how people are).

As for what more to say, well /shrug lol. New people coming in all the time, they've got something they want to say. Old people whose feelings haven't changed and want to pulse the issue. W.e.

There is going to be a lot of repeat here, and will always be unless SE becomes hyper restrictive on the speech and content that goes on in the forums. I can understand it can get annoying though, there are ceterain issues that people really care about that I don't.. but at the same time I understand I've got my own cares so I tend to leave their threads alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saxman09

I doubt any of the devs will read this as all these complaints are basically piss in the wind to them. But my issue is the fact that THEY KNOW what the issues are currently, THEY KNOW timers are dumb, THEY KNOW people are losing sleep over this, THEY KNOW an entire FC owns half a ward, THEY KNOW this current set up is promoting click bots/RMT house flipping, THEY KNOW all of this and have to to put out a single quick patch to fix any of these issues.

My quick fix would look like this:
1) END PLOT RELOCATION: Stop it completely, people with houses shouldn't get dibs on plots that are for people without them, ESPECIALLY with the RNG timer implementation. Plot relocation is currently a bane to new house buyers and a boon for RMT. Someone wants to buy a house with money? All someone has to do is relinquish the plot, by pass the timer and they have the new spot. RMT users who own a house love this system, go check reddit if you don't believe me.

2) Destruction of any and all non-active house users and change of use policy: I've taken a stroll to expirment during peak hours mind you and I saw 4-5 houses being used. Actual people hanging out there doing things/activities/queuing/chatting. While roughly 80% of the houses in the wards are completely dead. People are complaining about losing the "community feel" if instanced housing becomes a thing and I say BS, I don't see any community outside of my FC neighbors another constantly active group. All other houses are dead. Might as well have nobody around.

3) Deval timers AND sale timers on placards: This is literally a no brainer. You will stop SOOOO many headaches and people can sleep and have a proper notion of when to be on for those houses to pop. RNG causes imense frustration especially when it wastes people's sub time. WASTING PEOPLE'S SUB TIME ISN'T A FIX. Give people a set time to return and at least they can now feel LESS cheated because they didn't waste 20+ hours of thier lives sitting in one spot praying for RNGesus.
.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You missed the rest of that quote :(. These people want houses, so they're not anti-housing. I know what you mean but if you were going to give people silly answers for what you felt were silly questions I thought it only fair to point out these are not anti-housing threads. They want housing, thus not anti-housing. They're anti-FFXIV housing, they want something different. They're not the same though, but like I said I understand what you're trying to say- they're definitely anti-something lol.

Yes people are disgruntled and yes they are anti-FFXIV's system, that doesn't mean they're against housing though.

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These threads saying they're quitting the game or these threads advocating the destruction of the current housing system are very much interpreted by me as anti-housing as they are very much not pro-housing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Would recommend if the forums get tiring to stop reading the ones that tire you- just hardcore nope out of threads (I do), the forums are never going to change in that regard lol. Beyond that people will naturally spend more time complaining here (hopefully constructive criticism) than celebrating, because if you're happy or at least apathetic it's more likely you wont bother saying anything at all (which is a bit sad I guess, but generally how people are).

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As I said, I'm a pro-housing advocate. I want to talk about housing. I don't see people spamming near identical threads in the other sub-forums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edax

These threads saying they're quitting the game or these threads advocating the destruction of the current housing system are very much interpreted by me as anti-housing as they are very much not pro-housing.

As I said, I'm a pro-housing advocate. I want to talk about housing. I don't see people spamming near identical threads in the other sub-forums.

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Fair enough that you feel they're anti-housing, just so long hopefully you also understand what I was trying to explain ^_^.

Just in case I made a silly example:

A: I love chocolate, I want you to make me a milk-chocolate cake.
B: Okay, I hear you- I've made you a german chocolate cake!
A: I didn't want nuts. I'm allergic to them.
B: I made you chocolate cake, why aren't you happy?
A: I like chocolate, I can't have chocolate cake with nuts- please make me another one.
B: Nah I made you exactly what you wanted.
A: I didn't want this.
B: Literally exactly what you wanted, it's a chocolate cake now get your epipen and be quiet.
A: MAKE ME ANOTHER CAKE
B: YOU WANTED THIS ONE I MADE IT, YOU HATE CHOCOLATE? YOU'RE AGAINST CHOCOLATE AREN'T YOU!?!?!
A: REEEEEEEEEEE
[insert some Gordon Ramsey memes here]

Lol. Clearly B didn't quite deliver what A wanted, just as SE has not delivered housing in the form that I'd say the great majority of players that mention "instanced housing" feel (can't speak for everyone but from what I've read it's true, even if some of the posts are more aggressive than I'd prefer). That's not to say there is no C player who think's German chocolate cake is the best cake, there are obviously lol.. just that for A they do actually love and greatly desire cake (they love housing, they are pro-housing in the concept of housing in an mmorpg) they do not however love german chocolate cake (SE's housing). They're clearly pro chocolate, they're just not pro of the variant made.

Not that I think you have to view it this way, but I doubt if you told people who are making these threads that they hate (or at least are anti) housing, that they hate(/anti) chocolate, that they'd ever agree with you because they don't/are not lol. But I can understand what you're trying to say, so at least I think I see what you're trying to express to me.

Personally I think we should encourage an environment that's open to criticism but also comradery and growth. I understand everyone see's that differently.. so even if everyone agreed with me we'd not agree on end results.. but I do wish we could voice our concerns to SE politely (and I do wish SE takes polite feedback sincerely). Which isn't to say SE must act on every comment or feedback but you'd hope the means of communication are not "the biggest REEE gets the most grease" :p, because it would encourage bit of a toxic relationship.

I don't want to cause too much side discussion but hopefully we're at an understanding even if it's not a complete agreement lol. Feel free to quote/respond to me of course~! Just warning I'll probably not respond because I don't want to derail the thread's purpose, not to see my response as a lack of interest :).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Fair enough that you feel they're anti-housing, just so long hopefully you also understand what I was trying to explain ^_^.

Just in case I made a silly example:

-snip the rest -

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Player A acting that way is the worst possible approach to trying to get Player B (or SE) to reconsider anything. They're coming off as an entitled, spoiled brat having a temper tantrum. They're going to end up getting ignored.

It no longer matters what they're actually asking for. People stop caring about what Player A wants. They've tuned that person out.

If you're trying to use Player B to represent SE's response to players, it's a bad example. Instead of the "Nah I made you exactly what you wanted", the response should have been "I used up my available ingredients making the cake for you. I don't know when I'll have more to try to make another cake for you because I also have to be making food for these other 700,000 people who don't particularly about cake."

No one is trying to discourage criticism but it needs to be calm, constructive discussion promoting change to benefit the community and not the "I'M GONNA QUIT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME WHAT I WANT" temper tantrums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Player A acting that way is the worst possible approach to trying to get Player B (or SE) to reconsider anything. They're coming off as an entitled, spoiled brat having a temper tantrum. They're going to end up getting ignored.

It no longer matters what they're actually asking for. People stop caring about what Player A wants. They've tuned that person out.

If you're trying to use Player B to represent SE's response to players, it's a bad example. Instead of the "Nah I made you exactly what you wanted", the response should have been "I used up my available ingredients making the cake for you. I don't know when I'll have more to try to make another cake for you because I also have to be making food for these other 700,000 people who don't particularly about cake."

No one is trying to discourage criticism but it needs to be calm, constructive discussion promoting change to benefit the community and not the "I'M GONNA QUIT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME WHAT I WANT" temper tantrums.

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Didn't tell you I wouldn't respond to you either so I'll put one more response in as a "I'm out" haha, since while I don't love the title of the thread I do share some desires to change the system (would like to say what was said differently and politely, but I can see their earnest passion for it). And that I don't feel the last few of my posts have been as close to the intent of the thread. First of my post I'm happy with and second to explain further but I don't want the thread mutate into being about assumptions/misconceptions good and bad faith arguments and my feeling therein when it's not what started the thread haha.

Anyway onto your point- I agree. ;).

https://i.imgur.com/iefr9JX.png

If you want a good relationship, and hopefully SE does, I know you do as I can tell from reading how you wish people to talk nicely, then of course we should inform SE of our dissatisfaction of stuff while trying to avoid insults. Sometimes saying something isn't very good feels like an insult I guess but I don't count that, I think we can agree there is a difference between "I don't like this, here are the reasons why I don't like this, I would really like this" is different than "REEEEE SIRENS" hahaha :D.

And just on the player B point I actually infused it with a bit of other players, player B was sort of SE and other players responding to player A (SE has never, that I can recall, told player's to stuff it and take a metaphorical epipen lol). I was mostly going for "if you know what they meant, even if they said it poorly, then why spur further chaos" sort of concept. The concept that these players who are unhappy with the system as is REALLY want housing (uncontrolled and passionately so), they just don't want X, that they REALLY want "Y" and that what X is.. is clearly not Y. I'm fine if people feel like "I don't care, if you say it poorly I'll give you poorly back" but I just don't personally want to encourage that and am fine mentioning counter to that then (as I did lol).

Which was what my first post here was, my shock that something I felt should be evident was not (if you don't assume the worst of people it should be reasonable to figure they're not asking for that which already exists, at least if they've already told you they've gone hunting for houses and they hate the system).. and that I was going to make it evident by also posting what the majority meant when they said "instanced housing".

So anyway, I agree that good criticism is important. Maybe I disagree on the "no longer matters" part, because I think if you know what they meant then you know.. what they said still means something even if the delivery wasn't in a package one may have preferred, and I dislike the idea of adding similar gasoline to the fire even if it's not your fault there is a fire anyways ("I don't like fire, so let's make it a bigger fire!".. lol - at least intentionally, accidents/assumptions happen as you said).

Okay peace out guys :D

If I can bring it back on topic I might respond but otherwise probably not (at least on this thread). I feel comfortable with some tangents but holding that tangent for too long makes me feel bad for the thread's purpose (issues with housing).