There's hardly any sense of danger when fighting a dungeon boss or a B Rank Hunt etc. I've encountered fate mobs that are more dangerous and fun to fight.
Running dungeons with the same old expectation of a simple boss fight where you run a bit over there and then dodge that extremely slow AOE attack, and then hack it down till the fight is over is all getting tedious and fatiguing. Feels easier than HW and SB.
How about adding more depth to these fights so that they're more interesting to complete, add some mechanics we haven't already seen. Also, crank up the boss attack speed, throw in multiple tank busters in close proximity, more adds, more danger! Pleeease! :D:D:D:D
With ilvls going higher, these battles are getting pretty bland. I guess this would hugely affect the balance of things though... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ZzZzZzZz
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08-07-2019, 05:36 PMBigToughSE please, why are the enemies and bosses so easy? This is too EASY!
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08-07-2019, 05:39 PMEvanoel
Not all players are as elite as you are. :rolleyes:
The difficulty is fine. -
08-07-2019, 05:49 PMNedkel
Just because you play a tank, and never die (due to the team efforts), it does not mean its easy on all other around you.
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08-07-2019, 06:11 PMIlyrian
If the healer dies near the start of a boss fight I can't think of a single ShB boss that you could survive an entire encounter for currently. Maybe H Switch first one?
Not saying they're super hard - but there is definitely an some effort being put in somewhere. -
08-07-2019, 06:14 PMKaitoAsaha
Self impose limitations onto yourself and do dungeons in entry level ilvl stuff for that specific dungeon. But be sure to inform your healer, because healing a tank with lower level gear requires more attention and heal spamming.
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08-07-2019, 06:58 PMVidu
Aaah, I just love it when such requests are made by people who havent done Savage nor any of the more difficult Ex-primals for the past years! :) Because its so easy to direct them where to go: Ex-primals and Savage are the place to look when you want a real challenge!
Dungeons are meant to be content that can be cleared by everyone, B-ranks are meant to be solo'd by now. If you want a challenge, stop looking in the wrong places and go do some Savage or Ex-primals. -
08-07-2019, 07:18 PMBearded
Quite happy with the dungeon & trial difficulty in the MSQ thanks.
Harder stuff is there to be found in the savage and extreme content. MSQ must always be accessible to those who are not into "best of best" gear whereas savage and extreme is there for those masochists who enjoy being pushed that bit more. -
08-07-2019, 07:36 PMAsiraganJust because someone thinks the difficulty is too easy doesn't make him an "elite players" whatever that means...Quote:
Originally Posted by Evanoel
The dungeons are just rollface, and have been like that for quite a while, really. Asking from the players to be a little more than awake isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Not asking for savage/extreme difficulty here, but making so that players at least get a little better is not a bad thing. Just so...you know, avoiding people raging over that ice spec black mage, or that healer that just seems to be a little too afk.
And it also just make the victory that much more sweeter when you do win. -
08-07-2019, 07:44 PMAnne-
Maybe you haven't noticed since you seem to play tank yourself, but a lot of tanks in duty finder have no idea how to press a cooldown, even just one. Now by your suggestion they would be floortanking all day long and I got to be the healer that puts up with it and gets blamed. Thank you, but no thank you.
How about you try some stuff that's meant for people that are looking for a challenge. Expert trials, savage... Enjoy! -
08-07-2019, 08:18 PMMisutoraru
there are extreme trial and savage for players who seek more challenge content
I do hope we have slightly more difficulty rise in normal dungeon
but B rank are meant to be soloable -
08-07-2019, 08:21 PMInsertcoins
If you haven't done anything past a 24 man please for the love of all... get out of here with your BS. Go try the trials and savage before you come here crying about the game being to easy. >:/
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08-07-2019, 09:01 PMspf1200
As someone who has never completed a savage I agree. This game is too easy and it is actively making the player base worse. This thread is a good example actually lots of people who don't seem to want to have to put any effort into the game cause they have never been asked to try.
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08-07-2019, 09:07 PMspf1200
I'm on a phone so I can't edit. Yes savages can be "hard" but honestly the hardest part of them is having the patients to deal with the randoms that can't do the most basic of mechanics since again the msq never asks people to try or think
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08-07-2019, 09:28 PMViduI dont totally disagree with you or the OP in the sense that I think it would be better if we had a better learning curve throughout the dungeons, with them getting gradually more difficult and leading up to Savage and Ex-primals in a more natural way.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
But I'd also like to point out that you're saying yourself that you're not doing the more difficult content because you're worried about getting randoms who cant handle the mechanics - are you sure you want to get those randoms during your daily expert roulette?
I dont believe that ramping up the difficulty we'll magically make everyone care about their job-performance and will make people sit down and look at their rotation. You'll still get a lot of people who wont care - only now that means that you might not be able to complete an expert roulette.
I would also like to know how you know that the difficulty of savage is mostly dealing with randoms if you've never attempted savage? Because I'm running this with my casual static, so no randoms involved and its still a challenge because the fights are designed that way. There is a lot more stuff to deal with than your regular dungeon boss and failing a mechanic even only once often results in your death, while you can happly fail your way through most boss-mechanics. While that isnt great and it probably wouldnt hurt to make even those more punishing, let me ask you again: Do you want that in your daily roulette? Fail several times at the first boss because your healer cant dodge? -
08-07-2019, 09:40 PMspf1200I try most savages never said I haven't tried them. I just quit before clearing them cause I'm tried of deal with people that can play the game. I do agree that it would be a problem to just jump the difficulty up (like they did with shin) but as you stated a curve upwards would be a good way to get people to start trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
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08-07-2019, 09:41 PMPaladinleedsI've tried Savage. Did Sigmascape and Deltascape (will be making a casual static once I get back to the Chaos datacentre, stuck on Light atm due to a rash decision on my part). Never pugged them, but I did have a static. Even with a static, these fights are challenging. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a way the dungeon fights could be tuned up without peeving off a lot of players. I mean look at Shinryu normal for example. People were crying hard for nerfs to that. It was only once we became super overgeared that it stopped being a major problem. People would leave trials roulette if they even so much as caught a glimpse of Shinryu or heard the music. If you make them more difficult, people will get mad... mostly those who are wanting to put the effort in, because they can't clear their roulettes now because of people wanting a carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
Those that have the people for it, will just find pre-mades (which won't help queues at all for randoms). Those that don't, get bodyblocked by it. They, and likely those who can't progress anymore, will almost certainly end up quitting, which will cost SE a LOT of revenue. And just because of the revenue alone, is why it absolutely will not happen, no matter how much we ask for it. Money talks. If we can prove it'll substantially increase SE's revenue (like, 100x more revenue, so as to make it stupid not for them to do so), only then would we have a chance.
Unfortunately, I think even slowly ramping up the difficulty now would cause problems. Personally, I'd love it, but we're so used to dungeons being faceroll easy, that even ramping it up extremely slowly, people would cotton on and complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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08-07-2019, 09:43 PMInsertcoinsBut if you've never completed them how can you make that statement? You can't just copy what others are saying without the experience yourself. Or you shouldn't do that. How can the game be too easy if you never completed the hardest content in the game? Thats like saying Sonic has no running in it and then admitting you've never played a single sonic game. You see how crazy that sounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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08-07-2019, 09:43 PMspf1200Ok didn't since people can't seem to understand. Not completed is not the same thing as haven't tried. I ALWAYS try the new savages I just don't seem to have the patients to deal with people that can't do simple mechanics cause wipe after wipe. God's example would be the people that keep running away from the group while they have the stack marker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
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08-07-2019, 09:46 PMZabuza
Savage raider here. Yes, you are correct that the game is too easy to keep challenge seekers engaged for long. If you have only been running dungeons though, extremes and savages may present the challenge you are looking for.
There used to be more challenging dungeons, such as Pharos Sirius. However, the reason the dungeons are so easy now is that people complained dungeons such as that one were too hard. So, the only way to solve this issue would be creating another difficulty on the dungeons. Experts and hard modes still aren't difficult dungeons. Would probably need extreme or savage difficulty dungeons to scratch your itch. -
08-07-2019, 09:47 PMInsertcoinsMy question is still the same.. you never completed them... so you by that example you never finished a tier. How could you when you don't finish the fights. Again your opinion isn't complete.. it can't be anyway. IF it's so easy get a static and knock em out. That way you'll never see randoms. I dunno... I can't take anyone seriously with that complaint when they don't do the hardest content in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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08-07-2019, 09:49 PMViduAh, sorry, I missunderstood your statment that you never completed savage-fights! my bad!Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
But my point still stands: you quit those fights over people who cant play the game or are at least not able to handle the difficulty that a savage fight presents.
I've seen enough people who cant even handle the current dungeon bosses. My last two Titania NMs involved people not getting "take the fire-stack into a water puddle"-mechanic, even after being told multiple times. Maybe I'm to cynical after 6 years of playing this game and dealing with people who just dont care or just dont get the easiest mechanics, but I dont think that the attempt to force that kind of people to get better by making normal dungeons more difficult will actually achieve that. I dont think that they'll actually get better.
For me its more likely that even your daily expert roulette will show the problem that you had with Savage: Someone wasting the time of the party because they cant deal with the mechanics. And suddenly you're either making sure that you run expert with a fixed party or you quit it...
Personally I'm okay with the majority of the game being open to everyone - and then having challenges for those who seek one. Dungeons could do a better job preparing for that challenge, but they shouldnt excatly be one. -
08-07-2019, 09:54 PMAylisThey tried it a long time ago with Pharos dungeon....and it was a flop and lead to I wanna say more disbanded parties then AV did if it came up in roulette. It was the hardest "normal" dungeon at the time. A lot of it comes down to SE being oblivious on how to factor in risk vs reward when it comes to drops. I mean...why go through the grief of a super hard dungeon when it gives exactly the same rewards, item level drops, and tombstone rewards as the more easier dungeons and nothing really special to make trying the challenge worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTough
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08-07-2019, 10:31 PMspf1200My bad guess I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. I'll see myself out as to not offend her highness any longerQuote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
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08-07-2019, 10:56 PMFoxyAreku
Do savage raids, the devs of this game are intent on that being the only place where difficulty of any kind should exist.
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08-07-2019, 10:57 PMOvenmittsHaving an opinion does not shield you from any type of critique. If your opinion held more water, you would be able to deflect opposing views much better than resorting to guilt trips and passive aggression. The fact of the matter is, if you think this game is super easy despite not having cleared a savage or dabbled in an ultimate, you are severely mistaken. It is not the hardest content in the history of video games, but I'd say it's entertaining enough to where I'm not bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
Many of you are arguing to make the general base game harder. This stance is fundamentally flawed since SE needs to make the game playable to the masses, not just cater to you. Whenever they try to make slightly more challenging standard content, we always see the backlash appear on the forums asking for nerfs immediately. Look up Pharos Sirius and Shinryu normal for some juicy examples.
No, we do not need harder standard content. Instead, I would suggest they experiment more with making that content enjoyable and interesting. They have been taking different directions than the standard wall to wall pulls lately and adding a bit of interesting twists, but I would not ask them to make the general public, many of whom like yourself don't even complete savage content, work harder and potentially get stuck on a MSQ trial of all things, burnout, and then quit the game and take their money elsewhere.
SE has an obligation to retain the majority of their paying customers, which is the general public that works their way through the MSQ to see the story. Raid content comes later to appease the midcore crowd. Ultimate appears after that to make the hardcore crowd happy.
We do not integrate the likes of the midcore and hardcore with the casuals, simply because some casuals are casual because they either do not have the time to learn how to do higher end content or simply don't have the skill or drive to do it. -
08-07-2019, 11:08 PMSaberMaxwell
If the difficulty of Savage is just that randoms can't do mechanics, why were only 300-odd groups able to even clear E4S on week one? These are, by the by, static groups that don't even have the pug difficulty. Followup, if the difficulty of savage is just pugs, why not form a static or join one?
Right now your statements don't reflect well on you. If the game is too easy, but you haven't completed its hardest content, that has some implications. -
08-07-2019, 11:27 PMJkap_GoatQuote:
Originally Posted by Ilyrian
I died at 2nd boss in The Qitana Ravel as a healer and the PLD beat the boss itself.it was refreshing really.PLD heals are great -
08-07-2019, 11:30 PMCrasherinoMate, you don't need to be "elite" to understand that this games difficulty is limited to "knowing what it does" and "remembering it", that's literally it, once you've got that down, any challenge goes straight out the window on this game, boss fights have nothing to react to once you know what their patterns are as well which just makes it even worse, there's no mechanics that require you to jump over anything on reaction, to dodge roll out of something that wasn't because you "forgot" the boss did that thing, nothing to really manouver around that doesn't literally tell you to "run this way around the circle or boss", because again, the entire premise of this games difficulty is based on memory, basically we may as well just play brain training on the 3ds when it comes to bosses on here, this also includes savage, there's just simply a bit more to potentially remember, and the most smallest amount of co-operation required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evanoel
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08-07-2019, 11:33 PMBright-FlowerI can't speak for all tanks but there are several I probably could as paladin provided I don't mess up any mechanics, and depending on the fight and how well they avoid damage maybe even keep the dps alive too. Maybe not every boss fight but a good deal of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyrian
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08-07-2019, 11:42 PMAsiraganSaw this argument a little too much to my taste on this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
There's something in games called "difficulty curves" which allows the players to go on and have slight increase in difficulty as the game goes on. And let's say that it's really not well made in FFXIV. The very next step in difficulty after dungeons are the extreme primals. Which means that you go from a content that you can do while watching Netflix while others carry you to a content where you need a somewhat fair understanding of your class and basic knowledge about teamwork in FFXIV. Things that you absolutely do not learn during dungeons and/or MSQ.
Maybe difficulty is not needed during the leveling, but they should step it up a notch at least for the max lvl dungeons. Or create a new difficulty mode to make a smoother difficulty curve. That would at least make for a nice change and give the DoW/DoM more content to do outside of boring dungeons or raids.
Now, and this is my point of view, but I don't think it's fun to mindlessly grind dungeons with absolutely no challenge to farm tomes. Sure, I could go into savage, but you don't get enough of them as a reward, so you found yourself stuck in roulette as your daily chore to get these things.
Quite honestly, saying that someone doesn't get to talk about difficulty just because they haven't cleared savage on the very first week is just absurd... What if they didn't have the time this week? Or only want to play with friends and not doing it with strangers? This argument would have a point if we were talking about savage difficulty, but that's not the case. -
08-07-2019, 11:59 PMSaberMaxwellDifficulty curve is a different subject, and for what it's worth I agree. There's too sharp a curve upward from dungeons to Extremes, and from Extremes to Savage. The person I posted this in response to, spf1200, however, made the blanket claim that the entire game is too easy. Difficulty curve has no bearing on that discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiragan
Again this isn't really part of my argument. That said, hunts are far more efficient for tomes, and you don't do Savage for tomes you do it for gear which is complementary to augmented tome gear.Quote:
Now, and this is my point of view, but I don't think it's fun to mindlessly grind dungeons with absolutely no challenge to farm tomes. Sure, I could go into savage, but you don't get enough of them as a reward, so you found yourself stuck in roulette as your daily chore to get these things.
I never said he couldn't talk difficulty did I? I said "If the game is too easy, and you can't beat it, what does it say about you?" Not everyone can do Savage first week, in fact only about 300 groups made that cut according to Ye Olde Site That Shall Not Be Named. Nobody is bad for not making that cut either, that was a pretty brutal race to the finish for my group on Titan specifically. That said, making a claim that everything, Savage included, is easy while also not having any recorded completions of any content on that level? It's gonna raise eyebrows.Quote:
Quite honestly, saying that someone doesn't get to talk about difficulty just because they haven't cleared savage on the very first week is just absurd... What if they didn't have the time this week? Or only want to play with friends and not doing it with strangers? This argument would have a point if we were talking about savage difficulty, but that's not the case.
We're not talking about Savage in a thread entitled "SE Please why are the enemies and bosses so easy, this is too EASY"? We're not talking Savage when the person I am responding to posted this?
Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
Okay, argument passed. If you ignore all the difficult content this game is braindead. -
08-08-2019, 01:11 AMAsiraganAlright, fair enough. I tough you were answering the OP on the topic of dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
But I still think that this topic can easily be extended to the difficulty curve as a whole. And for that, I really think we need a new mode for challenging dungeons, 4 man mode difficulty, something or other.
Possibly the best way to make everyone happy I think. The ones who care about the story will have easy dungeons, and the other will have the challenge they want without having the backlash from Pharos, as someone mentioned it earlier on this thread.
But I don't think we will see that any time soon, if ever.
Sure, and I wasn't really talking about tome farming efficiency either. My point was that farming tomes really wasn't fun while doing dungeon. And while Savage IS fun, it's really not efficient for it. And as you point it out, it's not even it's main purpose. I think that having more difficult dungeon, for better rewards, would increase the fun factor. Or just add an "ultimate mode" for dungeons, that gives challenge and more tomestone. (By the way I don't think hunts are fun, but that's just me, really).Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
Correct. Then again I tough that you were talking about OP who were only discussing about dungeons here.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
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08-08-2019, 01:41 AMInsertcoinsQuote:
Originally Posted by Asiragan
I want you to think about it this way then. You play fighting games and are pretty good at them. Your fav is Street Fighter. NOW picture someone having played NONE of them but Sonic fighters. And then that player having NO experience in any other fighting game at all tellign you fighting games are too hard and too cheap. Would you take that person's opinion seriously? Remember they only played ONE fighting game out of the 1,000s we have out now. and it's not even a CAPCOM one at that. -
08-08-2019, 04:24 AMAsiraganHmm, I get what you want to say, and on another topic I might even agree with it. But right now, I think this statement is somewhat flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
Here, OP think that dungeons are too easy, and thus should be tuned up difficulty-wise, which I agree with. But unlike in your exemple he didn't go and think that the whole MMO-genre is too easy. Or that FFXIV itself is too easy or too bland.
On this topic, for a content that everyone is doing daily, I think that everyone could have a say in this matter. Him not clearing savage on W1 doesn't mean that he's wrong about dungeon's difficulty.
And it's not like there is 1,000s game mode in FFXIV. There's like... 3 of them..? 5 if you take 24 man raids and normal raids into account.