Alliance Raid Roulette Needs adjustments

I play all the 24 man roulette levels. Most of them I did in there prime too. Now with a roulette its not balanced at all. If I end up in The Orbonne Monastery its not the same level of challenge as the the first 2 Crystal Tower levels/dungeons. Plus some people don't want a challenge so they don't unlock the later ones. Not a crime but I feel it stops some dungeons from popping up more. Same reason I keep getting snowcloak as a 50/60/70 roulette. I do believe that labyrinth of the ancients need an item level sync of 80. Then bring Syrcus Tower to item level 100 or 110. Even The Royal City could use a little help too. I feel the reward is not balanced. Some people even back out if they don't get The Crystal Tower.

Crystal tower is the fastest run available, outside syrcus tower. You can dps the crap out of the boss and ignore 99% of mechanics outside the last boss. There's no point in adjusting a 24 man raid when it's old content. Unless they add further rewards like MSQ cutscene simulator for triple xp and 5x's tomestones (which isn't gonna happen), it's not worthwhile for the devs to go back and adjust old content from ages past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elkanah

Crystal tower is the fastest run available, outside syrcus tower. You can dps the crap out of the boss and ignore 99% of mechanics outside the last boss.

---

You miss the point. Having too much dps is the problem. That's why its not an equal challenge to the other levels in its roulette. Hence too much exp for those 2 next to the others. How is it old stuff if many run it once a day as a roulette? I have just got out of a run where people complained it was too slow and started talking about dick. What if we had a lower ilv as I suggest? Then we would have the original mechanics to do. On one run of lab I had someone shouting about how the war players should use cd's and take the big hit on King Behemoth to make it faster. How is that not ok?

After it's 2 patch time in the sun, 24 mans are meant to be burned through to get experience, not to be challenging content. If it wasn't a quick way to get exp, not nearly the same amount of ppl would still run it as there is nothing else that is really worthwhile coming from it outside of glamour and story if its your literal first run through.

It would be great if they went back and redid some of the old content of gave us extreme versions of the 24 mans, but if they haven't yet I doubt they ever will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

After it's 2 patch time in the sun, 24 mans are meant to be burned through to get experience, not to be challenging content. If it wasn't a quick way to get exp, not nearly the same amount of ppl would still run it as there is nothing else that is really worthwhile coming from it outside of glamour and story if its your literal first run through.

---

um.... What about The Orbonne Monastery? Many people back out the second its there roulette. Last time I was there we all died on every boss. I got it as a roulette a few weeks back and people kept jumping ship all the way through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

You miss the point. Having too much dps is the problem. That's why its not an equal challenge to the other levels in its roulette. Hence too much exp for those 2 next to the others. How is it old stuff if many run it once a day as a roulette? I have just got out of a run where people complained it was too slow and started talking about dick. What if we had a lower ilv as I suggest? Then we would have the original mechanics to do. On one run of lab I had someone shouting about how the war players should use cd's and take the big hit on King Behemoth to make it faster. How is that not ok?

---

Sadly you're barking up the wrong tree if you think squeenix will adjust older content to challenge users lol. If it's not shb, then they're gonna ignore it for the most part. It's fine as it is. I can understand the complaints, but squeenix isn't gonna touch it anymore since it's no longer relevant content and shb. Simple as that.

Old content? The lore is used in Shadowbringers and they suggest you go play it. Also its in a roulette many play daily. With New game plus more people might go check out old content. That feature not even out yet. If they can change the Main Scenario roulette they can change this. I don't think it needs to be the min item level but a lower one would be better then it is now.

I love Orbonne but lately when i get it for my roulette the alliance cant get past Thunder God. Honestly, I dont blame the people backing out as soon as they get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

Old content? The lore is used in Shadowbringers and they suggest you go play it. Also its in a roulette many play daily. With New game plus more people might go check out old content. That feature not even out yet. If they can change the Main Scenario roulette they can change this. I don't think it needs to be the min item level but a lower one would be better then it is now.

---

Titan lore is also used in Shadowbringers. Doesnt make it not old content.

There isnt a lot of challenge for challenger's sake in this game. Current content always has a varying degree of challenge, but comes with rewards worth said challenge. People used to be patient for Orbonne when it first came out/up to 5.0 release because the reward was worth the time. Now they get better gear just from running story. That being said, it's a hard pitch to make to get SE to make a dungeon that drops i80 gear challenging again when the reward coming out of it is exponentially less rewarding.

To be honest I would really just love the content to be made with a max item level from the start. Why not tale Labyrinth of the Ancients and make it item level 80 or 90? It was out around item level 55 min. It drops item level 80 gear so why are we ilv 130? The Royal City of Rabanastre lost some of its charm too from this. In the first fight Three Azure Guards would spawn. When is the last time you saw them?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5108507

I know theres a lot of posts but my question is on this topic. I'm post # 696

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

Old content? The lore is used in Shadowbringers and they suggest you go play it. Also its in a roulette many play daily. With New game plus more people might go check out old content. That feature not even out yet. If they can change the Main Scenario roulette they can change this. I don't think it needs to be the min item level but a lower one would be better then it is now.

---

To be honest, its part of the daily roulette because if it weren't new players/characters would never see it pop up for them to complete for MSL or blue+ quests. Honestly why aren't you complaining about Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium not being challenging enough? Those are run by even max level characters because the tomes per hour are the highest in the game yet the raids themselves aren't very challenging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaymer77

Honestly why aren't you complaining about Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium not being challenging enough?

---

I just want to point out the those are 8 man dungeons. There not raids. Also this, Crystal Tower is not msq. Nothing makes you do any 24 man levels.

Nowadays, Alliance & MSQ-Roulette are just easy XP. I just use it for a quick daily xp-boosting while leveling my classes.

As stated it wont be ez if you pull World of Darkness, the orbonne monastery, or Dun Scaith. Why I don't understand them not putting Labyrinth of the Ancients on a lower item level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

um.... What about The Orbonne Monastery? Many people back out the second its there roulette. Last time I was there we all died on every boss. I got it as a roulette a few weeks back and people kept jumping ship all the way through.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

As stated it wont be ez if you pull World of Darkness, the orbonne monastery, or Dun Scaith. Why I don't understand them not putting Labyrinth of the Ancients on a lower item level.

---

These are all easy peasy for anyone who has run them. Last time I was in all of these we burned through it so fast many mechanics were skipped, it all depends on who is in the party, how many new ppl there are, the skill level of them, etc. But anyone who has been doing it since it was fresh can power through it practically with their eyes closed.

But the fact remains, its had its day in the sun and is now outdated by many many physical levels and many many ilvls which in the land of ffxiv is a death sentence. It's in the roulette to help get new people through it while giving the people doing it again an exp bonus. And if you are new it still will be challenging, regardless on whether or not come mechanics are skipped. That's why you saw so many ppl die. But for others who have run it 250 times, we would never step foot in there again without a little bonus incentive, and that's where being able to mostly cheese it comes in.

If it still took as long as it did back at release it wouldn't be worth it since there are faster ways to gain exp which is also why you saw ppl leave, they may not know how easy it is now or they may have had a pt similar to yours and judged it not worth the time. So pick your poison. Have things loose their difficulty or just not be able to complete the content since it would be nearly impossible to find anyone to do it. The only games that can keep old content difficult are games that still put significant rewards behind them. That's why ffxi was able to keep things like dynamis and einherjar challenging for years, people always ran them because the reward was worth the time and the difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

I just want to point out the those are 8 man dungeons. There not raids. Also this, Crystal Tower is not msq. Nothing makes you do any 24 man levels.

---

And just like that, with your reply you completely disregard the point I was making. Crystal Tower isn't MSL questing. It is 100% optional. If they made it more difficult people would not even bother unlocking it on other characters. Its in the daily roulette because people who are on the quests for it would never see the quest completed unless they were to manually find a group for it. Snowcloak is MSL unlocked which is a good reason why you are seeing it in the daily roulette. Both Labyrinth & Syrcus are blue+ quests that are 100% optional. Hell even Orbonne Monastery is optional because its not a MSL unlock. You are focused too much on the ease or difficulty of old expansion content and for whatever reason you feel that old expansion content should be more difficult now than it is. Quite frankly, if old content were more difficult you wouldn't see as many people doing it because the rewards just aren't there. The only reason why people who are in the Shadowbringers expansions or straight up level 80 do old content is for glamour and tomes. Level 80 players don't need exp. The exp gained from old content doesn't give you much for anyone outside the level range that the dungeon/raid is appropriate for other than the BONUS exp given for completing the dungeon.

Ever consider playing for oh, I don't know fun. If fewer people ran it and we had better runs that would be a good thing. We get to many bad that players pull early and shout at new players. Once had a bunch of others in a run say watch a video or don't play. We can see the exp brings in bad players and I have had to report a few. Its just not working out for many people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

Ever consider playing for oh, I don't know fun. If fewer people ran it and we had better runs that would be a good thing. We get to many bad that players pull early and shout at new players. Once had a bunch of others in a run say watch a video or don't play. We can see the exp brings in bad players and I have had to report a few. Its just not working out for many people.

---

Again, if fewer people ran it that would mean longer queues for EVERYONE especially new players who are experiencing the content for the first time. You are talking about OPTIONAL dungeons/raids not MSL ones. I understand you are a healer and a healer queue is quite low (being a WHM I understand this very well too) but for your average DPS the queue time can be very long. Making things harder (and in return it will make the dungeons/raids LONGER too) means fewer players will queue for those. That means that people will be waiting much much longer than they currently are. Again this is OLD content and provides, quite frankly, crappy rewards outside of the exp for completing it even if you are the appropriate level to run it. A friend of mine has been telling me & my boyfriend to farm poetics for gear because they are good pieces and can upgrade to even better. I looked it up and the gear I can get it upgrade to is lower in item level & stats than stuff I can buy on the market for gil. People aren't running this content for items. They are running it because the exp bonus rewards. Making old content more challenging for people in current content in ANY MMORPG has never been a thing. The reason for this is developers push for people to run the new stuff they released. The only game that I've seen update old content has been WoW with revamps or redesigns/re-release of old content. Old content is literally just that....OLD CONTENT. It makes no sense to reward players who are max level for running old outdated content. The exp bonus is just a perk of running old content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

Ever consider playing for oh, I don't know fun.

---

Your fun and my fun may not be the same. Your fun and what SE wants to implement for fun may not be the same.

If you want to make a game that is strictly 100% your idea of fun, might I suggest you enroll at a university that has a great game development program, graduate, then put a plan together along with a proof of concept demo, shop it around to various companies and investors and find the one that will allow you, without any interference from them, to make a game that is exactly what you deem fun, then try to maintain that game's active subscription base for over 10 years while putting in a plethora of new content every 3 months along with upgrading every existing piece of content every 3 months to keep everything aligned.

Then we can chat.

Why it needs a rework. Make them all the same time and challenge investment of the player that plays it. Crystal Tower,as said, is to ez next to others in the same roulette. If they can rework some old stuff this should also be an option. They brought back the frontlines with its roulette and rules. I never said make it hard. Just add in more of it. The higher item level took away the experience. Why cant they work on this roulette too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

Why it needs a rework. Make them all the same time and challenge investment of the player that plays it. Crystal Tower,as said, is to ez next to others in the same roulette. If they can rework some old stuff this should also be an option. They brought back the frontlines with its roulette and rules. I never said make it hard. Just add in more of it. The higher item level took away the experience. Why cant they work on this roulette too?

---

Again you are failing to understand that old content is simply OLD CONTENT. Why should or would a developer keep pushing, updating, and regulating old dungeons/raids in old content if they aren't worth the time? Why would developers push players to continue to play old content instead of going into and playing NEW CONTENT they just released? Just because YOU want to see old content made more difficult doesn't mean you are the majority. In fact, you are in a very small percentage of the player base (I'd estimate less than 0.5% of the players agree with you).

To make a comparison for those who came from WoW I'll say this. Why would Blizzard push players to run Deadmines, Ragefire Chasm, or Molten Core at max level and continue to make updates to those dungeons & raids 15 years after the game was released just to satisfy a player base of less than 1/2 a percent? Answer is they wouldn't. They would push for players to run max level or current content instead and if they want to run those old things for transmog (aka glamour in FF14) then they can do it quickly because the player over gears the place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaymer77

Again you are failing to understand that old content is simply OLD CONTENT. Why should or would a developer keep pushing, updating, and regulating old dungeons/raids in old content if they aren't worth the time? Why would developers push players to continue to play old content instead of going into and playing NEW CONTENT they just released?

---

How about when Crystal Tower was played for the Heavensward relic? Plus its still in the lore. The development team said people should do it before playing the shadowbringers msq. Many play these levels every day. I don't want them changed at all. I'm only saying that a lower max item level would help out. They did it on many of the level 50 dungeons. They could do it. I know i'm not alone. They took the time to take out a tank spot and make it a dps. There not a required dungeon but Crystal Tower Story being missed will not make shadowbringers as god for some. Crystal Tower wont be as good if the dungeons and people in them are un-fun. Most of the time I go people don't even stop for the cs in dun Scaith or Syrcus Tower.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RMA209

How about when Crystal Tower was played for the Heavensward relic? Plus its still in the lore. The development team said people should do it before playing the shadowbringers msq. Many play these levels every day. I don't want them changed at all. I'm only saying that a lower max item level would help out. They did it on many of the level 50 dungeons. They could do it. I know i'm not alone. They took the time to take out a tank spot and make it a dps. There not a required dungeon but Crystal Tower Story being missed will not make shadowbringers as god for some. Crystal Tower wont be as good if the dungeons and people in them are un-fun. Most of the time I go people don't even stop for the cs in dun Scaith or Syrcus Tower.

---

They said you should run it before Shadowbringers because of the lore that comes to Shadowbringers (current content) from Crystal Tower. They didn't say that people should run it because of the CHALLENGE it brings to the table or should bring to the table. It is not uncommon for games to take content/stories/lore from previous expansions (or other games in their franchise) and they have a major impact on CURRENT content. They removed a tank spot and put in a dps spot instead because the need for that extra tank wasn't there. Again you are missing the fact that you're talking about OPTIONAL content. So to sum it up, you want to take OPTIONAL content from a PRIOR EXPANSION and make it MORE DIFFICULT simply because YOU feel it should be harder. Do you not see the absurdity in that statement?

How about the fact that the game costs $20. If a person buys the game and pays sub then it should be worth it. I contend that the story are not enough to warrant a play through of this side quest. If we did not have Shadowbringers as a thing I would recommend people skip this all together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaymer77

And just like that, with your reply you completely disregard the point I was making. Crystal Tower isn't MSL questing. It is 100% optional. If they made it more difficult people would not even bother unlocking it on other characters. Its in the daily roulette because people who are on the quests for it would never see the quest completed unless they were to manually find a group for it. Snowcloak is MSL unlocked which is a good reason why you are seeing it in the daily roulette. Both Labyrinth & Syrcus are blue+ quests that are 100% optional. Hell even Orbonne Monastery is optional because its not a MSL unlock. You are focused too much on the ease or difficulty of old expansion content and for whatever reason you feel that old expansion content should be more difficult now than it is. Quite frankly, if old content were more difficult you wouldn't see as many people doing it because the rewards just aren't there. The only reason why people who are in the Shadowbringers expansions or straight up level 80 do old content is for glamour and tomes. Level 80 players don't need exp. The exp gained from old content doesn't give you much for anyone outside the level range that the dungeon/raid is appropriate for other than the BONUS exp given for completing the dungeon.

---

Ehh, not entirely. People will still run Alliance Roulette for the experience. So if they were to, theoretically, make any one of the 24 mans harder. It wouldn't make too much of a difference. With that said, "harder" is subjective. None of them were ever truly difficult despite how much we meme on Weeping City. I do think they should sync us to either the ilvl of the gear that drops or the highest ilvl obtainable when the 24 man was relevant. In the case of Weeping City, this would either be i230 or i240. That isn't going to impact much at all, really. It would, however, allow the raids to at least feel like themselves. I dread Alliance Roulette nowadays because I am so damn tired of Yawn of the Ancients and Syrcus Snore. They're boring because we're so overpowered everything explodes.

Frankly, I am of the opinion this constant easing of older content is what contributes to the game having a plethora of bad players. Until you reach the newest expansion, almost every piece of content is a complete and utter joke. Once again, you don't have to make them hard. Just keep them close enough to their once relevant ilvl and I think things would stay exactly the same. Except Crystal Tower may actually be fun for once.

What if Alliance Roulette adjustments, but it's to make it an actual roulette instead of just Labyrinth of the Ancients, but with relevant tomes?

right, As I said. Put them more on the same level with each other. All 9 of them. Tho when 5.0 was out I got more at 60 due to dancer and gnb.

I don't think any modifications need to be made to alliance roulette.

That said, if they added a ilvl sync'd alliance raid roulette, I'd be all over that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaymer77

They removed a tank spot and put in a dps spot instead because the need for that extra tank wasn't there.

---

Actually, it's not true. They dropped the tank position because they needed exact same party composition as the HW and (the planned) SB raids for the roulette to work properly. So, in order for a min ilvl party to be able to clear the ARR raid, they had to tweak the encounters so the 2nd tank wouldn't be needed.

That said, it ws only tweaks, they didn't dramatically reworked the content

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

What if Alliance Roulette adjustments, but it's to make it an actual roulette instead of just Labyrinth of the Ancients, but with relevant tomes?

---

That would be nice, but other players are the reason for this. There are players who only unlock the first couple "easy" alliance runs so that they can keep this as an easy exp roulette. Someone who only has LotA and Syrcus unlocked is going to limit everyone else matched with them to a boring run. And of course, people leveling a class from 50-60 using this roulette would only have 3 choices anyway, even if all 9 were open to them.

I had a ninja today who took off there gear got in que and then put it back on in the dungeon. They must have done that to drop there item level to get crystal tower. The "ez" ones for exp. People doing that are messing up the random function of the roulette. They where level 70. If the dungeons where closer in challenge level it would not be a problem. Then it would not be the "ez" one.

I don't disagree that the Crystal Tower raids are easy, but I do disagree that making them harder would make them more fun. The primary reason why people even run Alliance Roulette in the first place is for the EXP and tomes. People don't run it to be challenged, or just to have fun. There's a reason why people try to force the Crystal Tower raids by reducing ilvl and avoid Orbonne Monastery like the plague. If you tuned the Crystal Tower raids to be like Orbonne Monastery you wouldn't get fun runs. You'd get incredibly frustrating runs full of people who want to get their exp and tomes for the day and get out as quick as possible. There isn't a high tolerance for wipes in environments like this. People are not going to want to waste their time teaching people fights. Worst-case scenario the roulette just dies, making completing any old Alliance Raids impossible for new players, and best case scenario it makes running Alliance Raid 200% more annoying since every time you queue for it you're just praying that you don't get a group that vote abandons at the second or third boss.

The only way this could be acceptable was if they made it an entirely different roulette with higher rewards. But changing the current one to become an absolute nightmare to run? No thank you.

People would get good at it or stop runing it. Those who stay would enjoy what they got. Not hard just closer to the original patch experience.