Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

Is there anyone who’s actually enjoying their job?? I seeing a lot of negativity on almost every job the game offers currently,

I love BLM... but it has almost no changes from StBl blm, and what did change were a few minor QOL abilities and single target versions of our hard hitting aoes...

Criticism tends to come from a place of love, rather than hate. If you hate a job, you'll just play something else and not care what they do to it. If you like a job, it's easy to spot some things that could be improved. You won't find me commenting on the healer threads, for example, because I'm not a fan of healing. It's a safe bet that the people complaining are still invested in the jobs they're complaining about.

Overall, I think most of the sentiments I've heard (except, perhaps, from certain healers) have been relatively positive.

I've only leveled two jobs to 80 thus far:
BRD - Didn't change much. Still enjoy it, though I'll admit that the lv80 ability is... lackluster.
MCH - Changed a lot. Love it, but I could also get on board with a number of tweaks to improve its playability.

and only dabbled in a couple other jobs:
DNC - Eh. It's not for me, but I can see why others might enjoy it. I'll level it to 80 anyway, just because I level everything.
WAR - Didn't change much. Not a fan of the new AOE combo though. Conal-aoe > circle-aoe? Who thought that was a good idea?

People who dislike the changes come here to complain. People who like the changes tend not to post anything, probably because they're too busy playing the game.

I, for one, am loving how the new Machinist plays, though I haven't had a chance to use it in many longer fights yet, so it's possible I just haven't run into any problems it has.

The forums tends to exaggerate a lot of the dissatisfaction people have with Jobs because it's where we come to give feedback, and the people most incentivized to actually provide that feedback are people who aren't satisfied. Someone on Reddit did a poll on how people felt about their Main jobs, which was then aggregated by a JP user and for the most part people were happy.
https://i.redd.it/m7yo4tdrmp831.png
Key: Dark Red: Very Satisfied, Light Red: Somewhat Satisfied, Yellow: Indifferent, light blue: Somewhat Dissatisfied, Dark Blue:Very Dissatisfied.

While it isn't perfect since r/FFXIV isn't necessarily representative of the entire player base, it is a decent visualization on how people are probably feeling about it. Pretty much every job is getting at least a 70% general satisfaction or at the very least, 80% aren't unhappy with them. The only jobs that are complete botches to the players are Monk, Scholar and Astro. Everyone else is relatively happy.

I don't hate any of the changes, I just think some of them aren't the best. In fact, the only changes I don't like are those to the AST and BRD. BLM is the class I currently like the most (always has been), and the rest of them are alright.

SE made job changes with new players in mind as the target audience, at times to the exclusion of what people currently playing the job might have liked about it. So yes, there are some jobs with a lot of frustrated former-mains.

There's also some bias in an official forum context, because this is the only way non-JP players have to endeavor to communicate with devs. So even if a job is broadly like but just has some QoL concerns, those will get posted here because it's not like there's any other way to express those kinds of requests to SE. And anyone with any sort of gripe large, small, founded or not, will post them here because that's just what you're supposed to do.

SAM - Apparently plays well but has mediocre numbers. People are generally happy but would like slightly better damage.

MNK - Good numbers but plays strange. People aren't very happy.

NIN - Average numbers but good raid contribution like always. Apparently complicated. I think people are generally pleased with it.

DRG - Very good numbers (possibly too good), flows well, good raid contribution. People are very happy with it.

BRD - Apparently plays well but a good chunk of people are displeased with most of the removal of their support kit. Mixed feelings here. Some are happy, some are not.

MCH - Plays well. Very straightforward from what I've heard. Good numbers. People are happy.

RDM - Plays well. Has a few mana issues though. Other than that people aren't complaining much about it. Hasn't changed much since SB. People are generally happy with it.

BLM - Extremely good numbers. Lots of QoL changes. Better mobility, downtimes aren't a problem anymore with this class. People are very happy with it.

DNC - No idea. All I've heard is that the class is easy and relatively fun. I'd say most are content with it.

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

Is there anyone who’s actually enjoying their job?? I seeing a lot of negativity on almost every job the game offers currently,

---

I'm loving the Summoner changes. Yes it was a new learning curve but that was to be expected. I personally think its still too early for people to be complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

---

Yeah the sample size on that poll was definitely skewed towards newer or more casual Summoners. Look in most places and it's being eviscerated just as much as it's being praised, including the JP forums.

I also don't see a vote count so for all we know that's like 1000 people.

EA needs to not be bugged at all, pets need to be buffed, makes little to no sense i can EA during phoenix pre level 80 but then cant afterwards, numbers need to be buffed across the board

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3

Yeah the sample size on that poll was definitely skewed towards newer or more casual Summoners. Look in most places and it's being eviscerated just as much as it's being praised, including the JP forums.

I also don't see a vote count so for all we know that's like 1000 people.

---

Standard Statistics gripe here, but 1000 people is more than enough to build a bell curve with confidence. Once you've exceeded 30 pretty much every response you get will fall within that range and not go out beyond 3 standard deviations of the average.

Here's a link to the google docs with the results.

Here's a link to the actual survey results, it looks like it's still actually live and accepting responses and Summoner's satisfaction is dropping.

I really like the NIN gameplay, it has a lot of loss-and-gain split decisions and choices.
Sadly doesn't feel as rewarding for the effort right now...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Standard Statistics gripe here, but 1000 people is more than enough to build a bell curve with confidence. Once you've exceeded 30 pretty much every response you get will fall within that range and not go out beyond 3 standard deviations of the average.

Here's a link to the google docs with the results.

Here's a link to the actual survey results, it looks like it's still actually live and accepting responses and Summoner's satisfaction is dropping.

---

Gotta love being orange in satisfaction.

I've found that after running EX with DRK, I like it in EX content, not so much dungeons. Got Crown of the Immaculate on my first try with the help of a friend and competent party, wasn't comfortable with my DPS just yet but I can see how to improve. In dungeons, I'm bored or not enjoying the feel. I'd like more self sustaining elements or faster CD.

I don't like healing in trials, but I do enjoy WHM in dungeons. Thin Air/Presence of mind+slap a Divine on the tank and Holy Holy Holy.

Doesn't mean much since I’m in a small minority but I still really enjoy playing Scholar. I done the whole of the MSQ with it and didn’t find it particularly slow or tedious.

Not trying to say that the job doesn’t need changes or that these complaints aren’t valid, just that there are some who did enjoy the job haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idolon

People who dislike the changes come here to complain. People who like the changes tend not to post anything, probably because they're too busy playing the game.

I, for one, am loving how the new Machinist plays, though I haven't had a chance to use it in many longer fights yet, so it's possible I just haven't run into any problems it has.

---

there are people who came to the forum to say they love the new machinist, so its possible the new machinist just isn't actually bad/boring/depressing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3

Yeah the sample size on that poll was definitely skewed towards newer or more casual Summoners. Look in most places and it's being eviscerated just as much as it's being praised, including the JP forums.

I also don't see a vote count so for all we know that's like 1000 people.

---

"Definitely has to be wrong because it doesn't align with with my own views"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idolon

People who dislike the changes come here to complain. People who like the changes tend not to post anything, probably because they're too busy playing the game.

---

Pretty much this. I love the new DRK; I feel like I have a tool for almost everything that comes my way, and the class tends to be very busy once you get the cooldown and MP management figured out. DNC is also great fun, and while it has occasional doldrums where you just get terrible luck with procs, it also has moments of insane button mashing when the procs come flying in. AST and WHM are not nearly as bad as I've been led to believe, and GNB has been a joy so far.

Just because I don't post anything doesn't mean I hate the new jobs iteration. Also, I don't feel inclined to defend my position on this matter on every single negative thread. So what you read is negativities feeding on other negativities resulting in an even bigger negativities, all from a couple of same people.

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

If we do not post in the Official Forums, how do we communicate appropriately with the Devs? How do we voice our discontentment about the changes to jobs, who quite a few have mained for years only to have its gameplay or identity altered for newcomers, and tell Devs this is the wrong path to take? The only reason I see people complain instead of giving suggestions is because it feels like we (players/community) aren't being listened to when it comes to making those changes. Can you look at MNK, AST and SCH threads and tell me the Devs had a good idea what the community wanted for these jobs, despite many actually giving out suggestions before? People will not take the time to put out well-written suggestions if they're simply going to be ignored anyway. That is wasted time and effort.

Players love the game (if they hated it, they wouldn't spend 20$ every month at minimum). They want this game to be the best experience it can be. I've seen those on this forum willing to engage with the Devs in discussion about what changes would be good, but get nothing but white noise in return unless it's during FanFests or interviews. I'm not saying they should be on forums 100%, but please at least leave us some acknowledgement that you're reading what we put out.

I do not see hate in those threads, I simply see anger. If there's such anger at changes inside a video game, it's that people were invested and attached.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poppet

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

---

It's a bit early to call balance we don't even have a savage yet. Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poppet

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

---

OK i dont know about the other jobs but Stormblood Mnk was definitely not the best it ever was, in fact it was, till that expansion, the worst iteration of MNK by far the "best" MNK was in HW, since then the job is¿ mediocre at best, the middle ground in all the worse ways, being a mediocre DPS and a Mediocre support, all that compounded by FC being hidden behind RNG and party composition (which is still a problem), Tackle mastery was a joke and the riddle system was incredibly useless (until 4.2 with RoW), the slow down of RoF always felt off, although it had its uses besides being an incredible buff. Overall MNK in SB was mediocre at best in ShB is still mediocre with even less to do.
Also TK is fucking useless. Tk rotation was annoying but at least it made use of TK. Do i want it back? no. Is it better than what we have now ? Saddly yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

Is there anyone who’s actually enjoying their job?? I seeing a lot of negativity on almost every job the game offers currently,

---

remember, the one who hate it become very active in forum to spread the negativity.

while the majority who enjoy it stay in the game thus you heard nothing in the forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSmiley

It's a bit early to call balance we don't even have a savage yet. Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

---

It's more clunky and flawed gameplay than numbers. Even SB MCH was meta viable. Just not fun to play. However, bad numbers do contribute to all 4.

Without providing feedback that won't change. And they'll stay like SB MCH did for a whole expansion without it. Hopefully not with it too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reyre

OK i dont know about the other jobs but Stormblood Mnk was definitely not the best it ever was, in fact it was, till that expansion, the worst iteration of MNK by far the "best" MNK was in HW, since then the job is¿ mediocre at best, the middle ground in all the worse ways, being a mediocre DPS and a Mediocre support, all that compounded by FC being hidden behind RNG and party composition (which is still a problem), Tackle mastery was a joke and the riddle system was incredibly useless (until 4.2 with RoW), the slow down of RoF always felt off, although it had its uses besides being an incredible buff. Overall MNK in SB was mediocre at best in ShB is still mediocre with even less to do.
Also TK is fucking useless. Tk rotation was annoying but at least it made use of TK. Do i want it back? no. Is it better than what we have now ? Saddly yes.

---

MNK at start of SB was bad and you're right. After it got PB and RoW changes it became the best it had ever been. Every single part of MNK's kit had meaning. The previously useless Tornado Kick was suddenly a huge boost to your damage and not a dps loss button. Building GL was no longer a problem area at any point of a fight.

I know a lot of people didn't like RoF, but its purpose is for you weave all your ogcds under it. By doing so you won't clip and lose damage. Having too much SkS wasn't nearly a problem anymore. Despite is being undesirable by a lot of MNKs it made the job better. Now it serves no purpose and it's clearly worse now.

Having dps loss buttons in MNK's current kit and server tick Anatman fishing isn't exactly what I'd consider a success story. When it didn't have any of that nonsense just three weeks ago. It's still suffering it's biggest SB problem. Being more punishing than SAM for less damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

---

Not... by the end of SB. Not remotely. At worst, SAM just remained a bit undertuned relative to BLM and MNK and RDM needed their raid buffs opened up (at very faint pDPS cost).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

SAM - Apparently plays well but has mediocre numbers. People are generally happy but would like slightly better damage.

MNK - Good numbers but plays strange. People aren't very happy.

NIN - Average numbers but good raid contribution like always. Apparently complicated. I think people are generally pleased with it.

DRG - Very good numbers (possibly too good), flows well, good raid contribution. People are very happy with it.

BRD - Apparently plays well but a good chunk of people are displeased with most of the removal of their support kit. Mixed feelings here. Some are happy, some are not.

MCH - Plays well. Very straightforward from what I've heard. Good numbers. People are happy.

RDM - Plays well. Has a few mana issues though. Other than that people aren't complaining much about it. Hasn't changed much since SB. People are generally happy with it.

BLM - Extremely good numbers. Lots of QoL changes. Better mobility, downtimes aren't a problem anymore with this class. People are very happy with it.

DNC - No idea. All I've heard is that the class is easy and relatively fun. I'd say most are content with it.

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

---

From what I've seen this is about right, though I dunno how to interpret the SMN gif.

MCH seem happy with the changes and DPS, but from what I've seen latency is still a big issue if not worse than before. A lot of oGCDs and clipping. I haven't played MCH in ages though.

RDM definitely has mana issues. Even using Lucid perfectly on CD, you have a good chance to run out of mana in a drawn out fight. Red Mage is no longer Rez Mage. I used to love picking people up and saving the Healers their Swiftcasts. But not anymore. I don't wanna sacrifice my DPS just to pick up that DPS who has died 3 times already. No I only rez healers. I think RDM being in the middle of that earlier graphic is pretty apt. "Meh." Like SE didn't mess up the class, but they didn't really add anything exciting either.

DNC is easy and fun, but people are pretty heated about where its DPS is at right now. Too little? Just right? HOW MUCH? WHO HAS THE MATH??!
I've played it to 80, and I think it could do with some adjustments. It's fun and fast when you hit your burst windows, but slow between them because resource generation is so RNG that you can spend the whole time trying to build Feathers and Esprit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Not... by the end of SB. Not remotely. At worst, SAM just remained a bit undertuned relative to BLM and MNK and RDM needed their raid buffs opened up (at very faint pDPS cost).

---

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

---

BRD provided top-tier tDPS regardless of DRG's presence. The issue was that you needed both BRD and MCH to get top-tier tDPS out of DRG. Even then, MNK in all physical comp could already outperform its tDPS, as could SMN with even just a BLM. By the end, NIN had the lowest tDPS of any meta job.

I'm not saying I liked that it felt like we were playing comps more than it felt like we were playing jobs, especially since the gameplay would be basically unchanged between them, despite the numeric codependence, but it wasn't nearly so bad as people make it out to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

---

DRG + BRD was too good. NIN was flexible for SMN + BLM just because Contagion was pretty much better trick for BLM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

---

meta isn't really about balance it's more like people want to duplicate whatever is most successful, even if it isn't that much more successful than something else. People didn't lose fights because they didn't have a drg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

The forums tends to exaggerate a lot of the dissatisfaction people have with Jobs because it's where we come to give feedback, and the people most incentivized to actually provide that feedback are people who aren't satisfied. Someone on Reddit did a poll on how people felt about their Main jobs, which was then aggregated by a JP user and for the most part people were happy.
https://i.redd.it/m7yo4tdrmp831.png
Key: Dark Red: Very Satisfied, Light Red: Somewhat Satisfied, Yellow: Indifferent, light blue: Somewhat Dissatisfied, Dark Blue:Very Dissatisfied

While it isn't perfect since r/FFXIV isn't necessarily representative of the entire player base, it is a decent visualization on how people are probably feeling about it. Pretty much every job is getting at least a 70% general satisfaction or at the very least, 80% aren't unhappy with them. The only jobs that are complete botches to the players are Monk, Scholar and Astro. Everyone else is relatively happy.

---

while yes, but FFLogs does kinda Show a Different opinon in some cases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

SAM - Apparently plays well but has mediocre numbers. People are generally happy but would like slightly better damage.

MNK - Good numbers but plays strange. People aren't very happy.

NIN - Average numbers but good raid contribution like always. Apparently complicated. I think people are generally pleased with it.

DRG - Very good numbers (possibly too good), flows well, good raid contribution. People are very happy with it.

BRD - Apparently plays well but a good chunk of people are displeased with most of the removal of their support kit. Mixed feelings here. Some are happy, some are not.

MCH - Plays well. Very straightforward from what I've heard. Good numbers. People are happy.

RDM - Plays well. Has a few mana issues though. Other than that people aren't complaining much about it. Hasn't changed much since SB. People are generally happy with it.

BLM - Extremely good numbers. Lots of QoL changes. Better mobility, downtimes aren't a problem anymore with this class. People are very happy with it.

DNC - No idea. All I've heard is that the class is easy and relatively fun. I'd say most are content with it.

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

---

is it though :P, Because Summoner by PlayTime is Winning against majority above it :P, 3rd Most Played Job currently :P these two sights give very different opinons to what the community Put in that orginal Poll, i dont think this is a Co-incidence overall, as We know they look at logs and look at Underplayed Jobs as a Lack of Audience playing the job is generally a good indicator there is a problem.

so either, Peoples Minds changed after the Poll on the job, or the Silent Majority Do actually enjoy the new Summoner.


https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=1045

If u look at logs to what people are actually playing it'd be.

Dancer > Dragoon > Summoner > Bard > SAM > BLM > MCH > RDM > Ninja > Monk.

and while Monk does remain a Common Denominator, the other jobs have moved around ENTIRELY and while u could Say, "they're just messing around trying new things etc etc" that wouldnt contribute to Summoners holding 3,000 More parses then its Next in line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drayos

while yes, but FFLogs does kinda Show a Different opinon in some cases.



is it though :P, Because Summoner by PlayTime is Winning against majority above it :P, 3rd Most Played Job currently :P these two sights give very different opinons to what the community Put in that orginal Poll, i dont think this is a Co-incidence overall, as We know they look at logs and look at Underplayed Jobs as a Lack of Audience playing the job is generally a good indicator there is a problem.

so either, Peoples Minds changed after the Poll on the job, or the Silent Majority Do actually enjoy the new Summoner.


https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=1045

For example, Summoner, is the most memed on job here, yet holds 3rd Position in the most played job in trials, BLMS top, yet has a Lower Playtime then Even summoner does in this. Machinist being second yet Again Lower Played.

If u look at logs to what people are actually playing it'd be.

Dancer > Dragoon > Summoner > Bard > SAM > BLM > MCH > RDM > Ninja > Monk.

and while Monk does remain a Common Denominator, the other jobs have moved around ENTIRELY and while u could Say, "they're just messing around trying new things etc etc" that wouldnt contribute to Summoners holding 3,000 More parses then its Next in line.

---

what people are playing doesn't tell you what's wrong with the job. There are tons of motivators outside of job design for why people play a class.


also fflogs is not a representitive sample, specific types of players seek out fflog

Opinion poll was before any dps numbers were out. So keep that in mind. As well as people just playing a job they want to enjoy. Like I even played one of the jobs I said was bad and contributed parses to that total. It's after playing it did I know it was bad because I know from experience other things were a lot better. Both in gameplay and damage.

I enjoy brd gameplay flow far more than I did beore, but I hate to see most of our utility gone. I like jack of all trades kind of classes who are ok at everything but not excelling at anything since I like laid back gaming. I play as good as I can and like improving but I dont analyze parses or beat myself up over having my dots drop occasionally - my "hardcore" days are long gone - but still was pretty useful to parties with mediocre DPS. Now I'm being judged more by the raw DPS I pull which puts me under more pressure and makes tiny mistakes way more impactul, which is not the kind of job I originally signed up for.

i like/dislike NIN , is was a fun job but now they added another layer , and the main issue is timing , and all that work for being one of the lowest dps

Rdm is ok , is just another spell after flare/holy , and a melee skill to avoid jumping back , reprise is meh , the new aoe rotation is ok but needs a mana boost , mp cost is too high but plays no different than SB to be honest , thats not bad but not good either , since others jobs received new toys to play with

Brd to me was butched , i played it because support and i love bow as weapon but now meh , it isnt a BRD job anymore , is like removing jump from drgs, makes no sense to me in the FF universe.

Monks are in a very weird place. Half the skills scream MORE SPEED. The other half says SLOW THE F DOWN!

Riddle of Earth doesn't work outside of raids since it requires you to be hit. Anatman doesn't work outside of raids because it requires you to stand still. Riddle of Wind seems nice, but you lose 10% damage from switching off Fists of Fire, so your damage boost is negated and you only get a bit of speed. Riddle of Fire still strips you of your speed. Really wish I had more to do during Riddle of Fire too. Even with the speed boost, I spend most of the time standing there than attacking. Brotherhood still only works on weaponskills and physical damage. Chakras are still luck based though up to 70% on critical hit from 50% once you reach level 74. Six-sided Star puts all your skills on double your normal GCD and feels like an improved Tornado Kick. Tornado Kick still useless though since it eats up all your Greased Lightning stacks and your basic string of combos has close enough potency anyways, so just ignore it.

The good news is that we now have a horizontal Kamehameha (Enlightenment) and a vertical one (Elixir Field). Four GL stacks feels great too.

I can only speak for dragoons as that's the one I've gotten to 80. I honestly enjoy it. I have some very minor gripes, such as a louder sound effect for Raiden Thrust, but I'm overall satisfied with it. I've gotten scholar and dark knight to 75 and so far they're meh; not completely terrible, but could use another look-over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poppet

Opinion poll was before any dps numbers were out. So keep that in mind. As well as people just playing a job they want to enjoy. Like I even played one of the jobs I said was bad and contributed parses to that total. It's after playing it did I know it was bad because I know from experience other things were a lot better. Both in gameplay and damage.

---

This.

I'm leveling a WAR and a SMN right now, the WAR feels fine, my only wish is that they remove beast gauge cost of Onslaught so we could charge more often.

SMN on the other hand doesn't feel like a SMN at all, it should be called RUIN MAGE.
>Egis don't matter at all, contribute to like 2% of your dps
>Bahamut moving delays Akh Morn
>Skill bloat
>Energy Siphon should be merged into Energy Drain OR scraped altogether, feels like unnecessary bloat
>Dots being required for ruin to do damage makes you very weak if dots end but the mob is already dieing so it would be a waste to reapply dots too
>Too many timers to keep track, you look more at your hotbars than at mechanics

I could go on and on, but the worst offender of all, SMN feels weak and is parsing very weak too.