Summoners: Please give us actual summons to make us feel like a Summoner please.

I'm so disappointed with what they have done to summoners in FFXIV, Giving us a watered down poor excuse for a summoner. I once read it was because they didn't want 100 people on screen with an Ifrit summon out so instead we have 100 people with a red blob out which looks ugly. Below is a video of FF11 and as you can see, the summons look amazing, cool as hell and made summoners feel like they were a summoner int he FF universe. Other asian mmo's have summoners that feel more FF than this game. Make Summoners Great Again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMX33Su7PXo

As long as they give us the option to resize the summons just like we can for bahamut, I don't see why not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coatl

As long as they give us the option to resize the summons just like we can for bahamut, I don't see why not.

---

How did I miss this! /googles

Agreed!

From developing side I can understand why they did what we have now, but I am agree that having 3 blobs and one more or less good looking Summon but for limited time is a big meh. I mean, there were so much Primals, but we still Summon only three of them on a permanent basis and can summon fourth once per few minutes, seriously? If we can't have new primals because of balance issues, maybe it's possible at least to give us option to glamour them to what we want, not just carbuncles? ;_;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halivel

From developing side I can understand why they did what we have now, but I am agree that having 3 blobs and one more or less good looking Summon but for limited time is a big meh. I mean, there were so much Primals, but we still Summon only three of them on a permanent basis and can summon fourth once per few minutes, seriously? If we can't have new primals because of balance issues, maybe it's possible at least to give us option to glamour them to what we want, not just carbuncles? ;_;

---

This is wher ei think their main argument breaks down. They didn't want us to all be running around with a Ifrit or Shiva minion but everyone using a carbuncle is ok? Makes no sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamChattaway

This is wher ei think their main argument breaks down. They didn't want us to all be running around with a Ifrit or Shiva minion but everyone using a carbuncle is ok? Makes no sense.

---

Carby is small. He's asking for huge summons which is what SE doesn't want. With the code the way it is having actual summons WILL break this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamChattaway

crappy looking red blob

---

Jalapeño pepper, chicken nugget and a chicken :D

Oh, we were going to get more according to Yoshi-P

"--I enjoy playing summoner as my main job, but when it comes to end game content, it's all Garuda-Egi with no opportunity to use Ifrit or Titan. That's pretty disappointing, and I'd like for Ifrit and Titan avatars to also play active roles in party content.
Y: Earlier I talked about Black Mage from my own point of view, but I've also seen that Garuda was always used on summoner. Originally we intended for each avatar to play a different role depending on the content and party setup. Since Garuda has the highest DPS, Garuda is used in the most content, so I think that's the main issue. If we made the other avatars stronger, then Summoner would be stronger overall, and if we made Garuda weaker to compensate for powering up the others, then the reverse could be true, so we are carefully considering what to do. It's a cute summon, but in the future you'll be able to summon a certain old man and a sister clothed in ice who's also quite cute. Although actually I wish I could copy the Mammet with the Mirage Prism.
--Are those summons coming next, or will Leviathan?
Y: Leviathan, hmm... I'm not sure whether Ramuh or Leviathan will come first (laughs). I think it'll happen when the level cap is raised, so I really can't say yet."

This is from 2014 before heavensward was released.

Long after that we got a glamour system for Egi, alongside promises like being able to use Sefirot-Egi and the like in the future. This next question/answer was from January this year:

"Q: When will we see an update to egi glamour.

Yoshida: We are working on it so please wait a little bit longer."

I do not know what are we going to get as SMN on the 5.0, but at this point i am a bit tired of empty words about the class myself due to the frustration.

I kind of like the concept of how they handled summoner, but the egis themselves look attrocious. If they want to give summoner a small persistent pet that's fine but make them look good. Ever since they added egi glamour I've just been using carbuncles because cute > ugly blob.

Another thing they might be able to do is to let demi bahamut be glamoured. Say, demi bahamut, demi shinryu, demi alexander, giga carbuncle as options, all sized according to the setting you chose. Giving you a small persistent pet and a larger temporary pet summon.

While I hold the unpopular opinion that the Egis look cool (seriously - I think they look exactly like a summon would look if summoned using a geometry textbook XD), I agree that the SMN job wasn't well put-together from the get-go. This seems to me in part because they seem like the devs wanted to build a damage-over-time DPS, realized they didn't have a Summoner job in the game yet, and decided to tack on a pet.

I think I would have preferred it if Summoner was more old-school about summoning - big, flashy spells that summon a primal, have them do their thing, and then vanish. There'd be no need to worry about the world becoming cluttered with too many huge pets, all or most summons would actually be useful, and we could have as many summons as we wanted, at one spell per summon.

FFXI is the only other Final Fantasy with summons as pets, and Summoner wasn't well put-together in that game either (it spent most of its tenure as a glorified healer). X and XIII had PERSISTENT summons, but in those cases the rest of the party went away and it was pretty much a solo show with the summon vs whatever you were fighting - obviously not workable in a MMO. All the rest of the FFs had summons that appeared, did their thing (that thing could be an attack, or a buff, or a heal, or whatever), and then left, and I think that model could work in a MMO, as well. Heck, they could even keep the whole DoTs/Ruin thing going, and have the summons be on oGCD cooldowns!

I'd honestly take doggo/demon ifrit over the jalapeno pepper anytime, even if they're chibified.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what the developers want to do, and wanted to do all along, but they have to sit on their hands due to the limitations of the MMOrpg experience and it's environments.

I am sure there are TONS of stuff the devs would love to do and happily oblige; but doing so would break the game world into dust.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While I hold the unpopular opinion that the Egis look cool (seriously - I think they look exactly like a summon would look if summoned using a geometry textbook XD), I agree that the SMN job wasn't well put-together from the get-go. This seems to me in part because they seem like the devs wanted to build a damage-over-time DPS, realized they didn't have a Summoner job in the game yet, and decided to tack on a pet.

I think I would have preferred it if Summoner was more old-school about summoning - big, flashy spells that summon a primal, have them do their thing, and then vanish. There'd be no need to worry about the world becoming cluttered with too many huge pets, all or most summons would actually be useful, and we could have as many summons as we wanted, at one spell per summon.

FFXI is the only other Final Fantasy with summons as pets, and Summoner wasn't well put-together in that game either (it spent most of its tenure as a glorified healer). X and XIII had PERSISTENT summons, but in those cases the rest of the party went away and it was pretty much a solo show with the summon vs whatever you were fighting - obviously not workable in a MMO. All the rest of the FFs had summons that appeared, did their thing (that thing could be an attack, or a buff, or a heal, or whatever), and then left, and I think that model could work in a MMO, as well. Heck, they could even keep the whole DoTs/Ruin thing going, and have the summons be on oGCD cooldowns!

---

I agree..to summon the big flashy primals to become part of party while the summoner disappears. Also even though Im not really a fans of the EGIs, I was disappointed when there no RAMUH & LEVIATHAN egis.

We summoner true fans have been asking since reborn got ignored when he came out ask again for that or more summons ignored mostly. the d3vs don't want real summoners because real summoner are gods lol

I'd like for them to scrap Egis entirely and have it so that our primary summon is always a Carbuncle, with the color of it having no bearing on gameplay. Just make the Carby a filler thing for low levels or if you screw up your rotation or die at later levels.

Instead of Egis, just let us pick three of any of the primals from a list of all the primals that we've defeated and we can summon a Demi version of them for a set period of time in combat. They can be separated into melee/single-target focused Primals (ex: Ifrit, Titan, Ravana, Sephirot) and ranged/multi-target focused Primals (ex: Garuda, Ramuh, Bismarck, Sophia). So, in time, you'll have at least three of each Primal for use in different situations, the single-target ones being used for boss fights and the multi-target ones used for dungeon mobs.

At level 70, you get the power to summon a Demi version of any Elder Primal you've encountered after summoning your weaker Demi-Primals, all of them performing the same to keep them all balanced. So you can choose from Demi-Bahamut, Demi-Odin, Demi-Alexander, etc..

Wait, what's a "Summoner"?

...

Oh! Right, I believe there was a Summoner bad guy in the SB part of Bahamut Mage's job quest. It would be cool to have that as a job.

i personaly don't care if they are gaints or not just please turn them into chibi forms like ramuh primal fight with them not glowing like a fire crystal but appear as tiny Ramuhs like his summoned egis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rollout

I'd like for them to scrap Egis entirely and have it so that our primary summon is always a Carbuncle, with the color of it having no bearing on gameplay. Just make the Carby a filler thing for low levels or if you screw up your rotation or die at later levels.

Instead of Egis, just let us pick three of any of the primals from a list of all the primals that we've defeated and we can summon a Demi version of them for a set period of time in combat. They can be separated into melee/single-target focused Primals (ex: Ifrit, Titan, Ravana, Sephirot) and ranged/multi-target focused Primals (ex: Garuda, Ramuh, Bismarck, Sophia). So, in time, you'll have at least three of each Primal for use in different situations, the single-target ones being used for boss fights and the multi-target ones used for dungeon mobs.

At level 70, you get the power to summon a Demi version of any Elder Primal you've encountered after summoning your weaker Demi-Primals, all of them performing the same to keep them all balanced. So you can choose from Demi-Bahamut, Demi-Odin, Demi-Alexander, etc..

---

Egis are part of the summoner story so they can't just scrap them. But having them "level up" wouldn't be bad and I think it would make sense along side the Warrior of Darkness story line.

Whether or not you keep them as egis or more solidified summons, one way they could implement with the summoned without having to use so many actions for the summons alone would be to make specific summon actions similiar to how they are now but having them name for Physicial DPS/Ranged Caster/Tank roles. Then within each of these specific roles you have the options in the settings to have that specific role be a particular primal that fits in that specific roles. Meaning you can't have one primal be in all 3, only in one. I.E Titan, Sephirot & Alexander as an example would be in the tank role only. This way you can set what particular primal you'd want summoned and change it anytime. Their particular actions would also change according to your settings choice. I feel that is also one of the major reasons for so little summons cause of the ammount of actions that will have to implement for them.

To have Summoners feel like actual Summoners we would have to completely revamp the class from the ground up. Why you ask? Simply put the way this game has "evolved" has created a system in which the only thing that matters at all for any class, outside of healing potency for Healers, is DPS.

Even early on in the reboot's lifespan it became obvious that this was the case as Garuda became the defacto Summon due to it's abilities favoring the DoTs SMN dished out. To give it multiple summons from each primal would need to have s justification to juggle between them but with how much has been stripped away from combat the only real use would be "Who has more damage?".

At some point you would reach a point where so many would go ignored and the devs can't justify spending time on doing more summons, thanks to their own game design of course. You could argue for debuffs or party buffs that rotate thru them but ask yourself what really gets used in that sense? Rarely do you use silence or stuns, 2-3 at best in a whole fight assuming it's not easy enough to just DPS, but most buffs come in the form of DMG up for a dmg type or by adding vuln stacks like MCH which in the end would lead back to so many getting ignored.

Honestly the only way I could see it working to let multiple summons is to treat them as Stands or Personas in which you pop them quickly for one quick ability and go thru multiple summons in a Rotation with the gauges being associated with Elder Primal like Bahamut that replace and buff some of those abilities with Elder variants like heat changes MCH shots.

https://zippy.gfycat.com/BlankTinted...rianlaika.webm

You'll get actual summons when BLU is no longer limited.

I have to hand it to the devs... They've just about made it through another expansion without making new egi glamours for SMNs (no, Carbi doesn't count, that's a reused skin, not new- neither does Bahamut since he's incredibly brief).

The last thing I remember seeing about asking if SMN's would be getting new egis was in a Twinfinite interview and some cryptic non-answer from Yoshi-P (so nothing out of the ordinary) from 2018:

Quote:

---

Twinfinite: OK I’m a Summoner, so I’m going to ask two quick selfish Summoner questions. The first is, of course, the mandatory question I have to ask: Is there any update egi-glamours for Shiva, Ifrit [etc.] [Yoshida laughs] will be added anytime soon? Or is it being considered, at least?


Yoshida: The development team does acknowledge that is about time to do our next thing, but we’re not going to reveal what that next thing is going to be just yet.

---

So at this point I don't know if we're getting new egis, a different summoning mechanic, etc. But I'm more concerned if it was worth waiting for through 2-3 expansions.

I never minded Summoner, but mostly because I came into the game knowing full well why players wouldn't get the "doombringer" versions bringing out the full-blown primals to stare at some mob, smack it, flip the bird at it and then sod off (this was back in 2.3). The general argument why they went the path they have over the past few years was because they want more focus on what the player can do rather than having to rely on an NPC ally doing things for you, and back then, I was definitely aware of it and had no problem with it at all.

With that being said though, I would love to see more pet functionality come Shadowbringers. Maybe being able to summon two pets at the same time, or more abilities like Enkindle to work with. Since the pet mechanics are now mostly fixed, there's so much more we can get out of them nowadays, and I'd personally love to see that displayed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsQi

Egis are part of the summoner story so they can't just scrap them. But having them "level up" wouldn't be bad and I think it would make sense along side the Warrior of Darkness story line.

---

I imagine it wouldn't be very difficult for them to just replace any instance of the word "Egi" with "Demi-Primal" and it'd probably work out fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

With that being said though, I would love to see more pet functionality come Shadowbringers. Maybe being able to summon two pets at the same time, or more abilities like Enkindle to work with. Since the pet mechanics are now mostly fixed, there's so much more we can get out of them nowadays, and I'd personally love to see that displayed.

---

False the pet system and mechanics have not been fixed (it’s still a complete mess) hence why most real SMN mains want to do away with it and go to a Demi primal system like we have with bahamut.

If we can summon two pets at once I will quit the job all together, can you imagine twice the latent reactions...no thank you!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think I would have preferred it if Summoner was more old-school about summoning - big, flashy spells that summon a primal, have them do their thing, and then vanish. There'd be no need to worry about the world becoming cluttered with too many huge pets, all or most summons would actually be useful, and we could have as many summons as we wanted, at one spell per summon.

FFXI is the only other Final Fantasy with summons as pets, and Summoner wasn't well put-together in that game either (it spent most of its tenure as a glorified healer). X and XIII had PERSISTENT summons, but in those cases the rest of the party went away and it was pretty much a solo show with the summon vs whatever you were fighting - obviously not workable in a MMO.

---

I don't mind the way the egis look. I appreciate the weird little spin they have on the primals. My problem is more on how they perform; they just mostly spam auto-attacks with some occasional commands. It doesn't have the feeling of awe that you're commanding a fragment of a godlike entity.

And I like how they decided to go with Bahamut. Made me wish we could get gauges for all of the primals instead. Keep them flashy and make them different. An Elder trance that will be used to summon the elder primals (Bahamut, Warring Triad, etc) as a powerful finisher. The Elemental gauge are for summoning the lesser primals that deal damage or provide group buffs.

I know that is just a dream, but if they keep the direction they're heading with the summons as temporary pets, I'll be pleased to see them add more Demi summons.

In regards to XI, you said it well. I think this may be a case of nostalgia or something, but I don't remember XI's being the most amazing incarnation of the job. I remember SMN from XI being a half-assed WHM throughout most of the time I played with it. It's mostly because the entire job revolved around the summons and their long cooldowns. After those killer avatar moves and group buffs you literally had to wait minutes doing nothing for things to come off cooldown. That's sort of why they were so dependent on their sub job (usually as WHM). The summoner itself didn't have an identity outside of the pet. They nailed the look and flavor of the job, it's too bad when it actually came to playing as a SMN, it was lackluster. In XIV, it almost feels like the reverse situation of XI's. Where the player is given more attention and power, which is for the best. I just want more summoning options like Demi-Bahamut.

I guess for me its kind of lack luster when you go from FF11 and have these hulking Titan or such following you around versus an orange rock. Though I guess when I hear summoner I expect them to be the main front, not the summoner themselves.

Or something like this .....


https://i.imgur.com/4fBDI5l.jpg


Aion spiritmaster class.
I cannot find the picture I remember seeing , but something like this would be more to my liking.

I would so be down with the culling of aetherflow and turning the "trance" phases into primal phases, going between ifrit, garuda, and titan, each having unique models and abilities, ending with bahamut as the finisher and starting again
for soloing purposes just make them all share threat, since most o the dmg you do would be the pet in this case it shouldn't be hard to keep threat on the pet while soloing

I'm pretty hopeful given the changes over time, certainly would be nice if this glamour system has some depth to it. Like FFXI earning summons you can go pilgrimage to unlock permanent upgrades to the lower tier egi so like demi-titan, demi-sephirot, demi-shiva, etc, etc. IMO In addition to that I'd like to see some system that encourages rotation/more summoning/summon interactions but something that'd have to be carefully mix in with the current system (or threaten to upset FFXIV hardcore summoner fans currently).

Many variations of the concept I've seen on the forums but something probably a bit less wild implement might be the dots taking theme after the primal out and other spells (like bio -> burn, miasma -> eruption, fester -> nail, etc). I think that's something that SE already has a lot of the resources made for and doesn't require some big redesign of the job, although when fighting a primal of the same type I think it would be good if your egi was forced to default to carby or some other egi (so you don't freak someone out with eruption appearing in an ifrit fight lol).

I'm quite glad they took feedback on summoner though- I was not so excited as it was before, before the demi-bahamut and all lol. Also happy we're finally past all the forum posts "but lore says no, we can never have something spify" moments, it was a sea of that being the major bulwark XD (which obviously didn't mean no in the end :D).

I would love for more grandiose in appearance summons, like demi-bahamut, just have to keep them reasonable that you're not killing other players because they can't see the floor lol (I can see around demi-bahamut easily, he's a good sample size).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Carby is small. He's asking for huge summons which is what SE doesn't want. With the code the way it is having actual summons WILL break this game.

---

Well, I am pretty okay with how summons looks actually. From playerbase side it's better to have something small so it will not stress video card especially when there are 100 Summoners running around. Though it's possible to change their model to "realistic" one but not too big for causing problems. Hovewer, if it's impossible, at least it will be good to have more models, since there are 15 Primals (if we don't count living forms like Lords/Dragons or Thordan) or 21 Trials (if we count everything that gives "Expansion" mount (horse/bird/dog)) but out of this amount we are stucked to 3 of them + Bahamut-egi which is just feels weird. Though people here quoted some interviews some probably we will finally get something in 5.0.

But we have a real summon.

It took multiple expansions, but we got one.

Won't object to more, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

But we have a real summon.

It took multiple expansions, but we got one.

Won't object to more, though.

---

meha sadly its 1 if the 3 summons i hate 2

bahamut , alexander and titan i hate with a passion.

Baha because his over rated and honestly is kinda the worst in truth

alexander cuz holy robot is meha

and titan cuz his fat and rlly ugly 2 use

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rollout

I imagine it wouldn't be very difficult for them to just replace any instance of the word "Egi" with "Demi-Primal" and it'd probably work out fine.

---

So it's just about the name? Egis are pretty much "demi primals" and having you summon an actual primal during the part of the story when you are doing everything to stop that would make no sense. If the ongoing story supports it, which it seems to, then becoming more like their name sakes can be part of the Summoner story.

No they should not rewrite the past story but going forward makes sense.

Hey, bigger and better summons might be coming!

The Summoner story so far:
50: Learn to summon tiny little version of primals, cap it all off with Enkindle.
60: Learn to channel the abilities of Bahamut, cap it all off with Deathflare.
70: Learn more links with pet, capping it all with a demi-Bahamut summon!

So where to go at 80? Why work backwards of course, apply that demi-summoning and primal channeling knowledge to your other summons. Demi-Ifrit coming in to wreck stuff while you throw out Infernal Nails.

A leak suggested we might get a Demi-Phoenix summon.

It was that collage of images tgat was posted right before Tokyo fanfest, which got a lot of stuff dead right.
Two things in it that werent shown however were a summoner with a phoenix behind it, and a machinist carrying a drill and a chainsaw.

There are lore reasons for this, summoning eikons is forbidden .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

I would so be down with the culling of aetherflow and turning the "trance" phases into primal phases, going between ifrit, garuda, and titan, each having unique models and abilities, ending with bahamut as the finisher and starting again
for soloing purposes just make them all share threat, since most o the dmg you do would be the pet in this case it shouldn't be hard to keep threat on the pet while soloing

---

This is pretty much my idea of smn as well. Plus when you end the trance successfully, each summon leaves it's stylized debuff (burn dot from ifrit, slow dot from titan, etc)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aomine1992

False the pet system and mechanics have not been fixed (it’s still a complete mess) hence why most real SMN mains want to do away with it and go to a Demi primal system like we have with bahamut.

---

When I mean "fixed", I mean that player inputs take priority over pet auto-attack actions rather than the other way around like it was before. That was the real issue with pets, and both (good) Summoner and Scholar mains could feel that change whenever they would issue pet commands resulting in comparatively far quicker responses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aomine1992

If we can summon two pets at once I will quit the job all together, can you imagine twice the latent reactions...no thank you!!

---

Well there's your problem: your internet apparently sucks. If your Summoner troubles are based on latency, that's on you far more than it is on the game.