Hi, recently I doing Shinryu Ex and other raid/trials using my AST. Sadly, my healer partner unable to cooperate with me until excessive amount MP use by me and my partner MP seems like 90% full. It may looks like from other side seems my MP management is bad but as where I am standing, my MP depleted fast because of AOE heal more than twice because the other heal does not heal. Should they known their skill set first before entering. Kinda sympathize to all party when they are forced to abandon due to multiple wipe due to healer unable to top up party HP before Trials/Raid mechanic initiate.
Declining Good Healer in High-end content
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12-13-2017, 05:01 PMSaberlinkDeclining Good Healer in High-end content
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12-13-2017, 05:31 PMMirch
You could solo heal it
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12-13-2017, 05:41 PMSaberlink
I could but it just when you got another healer in party, should they cooperate each other unless they mistakenly green icon class
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12-13-2017, 05:52 PMMoonfish
Ive done this fight 128 times. Maybe 5 of them I was playing AST, the rest were WHM. I’ve carried so many bad SCH/AST that never shield. All I ever hope for is shields. I can do the heavy lifting, just help me out a little bit and put a shield on that tank about to take Tera slash in dps stance with no cool downs.
I’ve learned to network a bit. I let my co-healer know when they’re doing a great job and I add them to my friend list. Next time I need a solid co-healer I check my friends first. This might work for you too. Otherwise the solution is probably doing it with your friends, FC or maybe a static. -
12-13-2017, 06:08 PMSaberlink
Yes I mostly went those with my friend or FC mate and success rate be like 100% but not all of them free at one time so, by using Duty Finder I almost always found WHM which unable to top up heal party and dead when Boss doing global damage. My shield can hold only certain point of damage, if HP is too little others still could end up dying.
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12-13-2017, 06:13 PMRiyahArp
Surprisingly, hard content is hard and you can't find a lot of people to do it well.
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12-13-2017, 06:15 PMKakikoWhat is with ASTs these days only wanting to go into Diurnal? I've come across this a couple of times in raids (not Raba, I don't think I'm good enough with the mechanics yet to try healing in it) where my co-heal is an AST and they choose Diurnal without checking to see which their co-heal (me, on AST) is choosing. Is it the default setting for these people? I've also been in raids as DPS with a WHM and AST as heals and I've seen ASTs refuse to go into Noct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonfish
Seeeriously frustrating. -
12-13-2017, 06:58 PMSaberlinkThat is how the situation nowadays. Usually when start of the battle I will turn on the Sect after another AST choose their Sect. Given that we can use party chat, should it be discuss first. We could us auto translate like "Healer Nocturnal Sect Diurnal Sect?".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
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12-13-2017, 07:35 PMSebazyThe key here is to communicate. Assuming that it's entirely your partner's fault is also the wrong approach and a rather unhelpful mentality to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberlink
First up, quite frankly, the current trials are indeed solo healable with some effort and experience. Whilst not everyone can be expected to play at that level, it's still a simple and indisputable fact that if you're burning through your MP at that rate then there's every chance that you are doing something wrong. Are you remembering to keep Lumi Aether on cooldown? Are getting good value out of your oGCDs?
It's wrong to attack your co healer's standard of play when there's every chance that you've got just as much room to work on your own. Record yourself with Shadowplay or ask a friend to upload a log for you and have a proper look over, there's plenty of people here on the healer forums that are happy to give you honest and fair suggestions and advice with a provided log or replay.
Lastly, if all else fails, it's time to open up the comms with your co healer and ask them to fill in the gaps you can't cover yourself. I assume you can type Japanese right? If you can't, then again, you only have yourself to blame. -
12-13-2017, 08:07 PMkikix12Um...You are an Astrologian and are complaining that others only want Diurnal...and are infuriated about that wanting to know why they only want Diurnal...Aren't you part of that?! I mean, why are you infuriated if not for the fact that YOU want Diurnal as well? If you don't care, then just go Nocturnal and be done with it, there would be naught for you to get angry over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
If I don't care (and I don't, not in 8+ man content anyway) which sect I'm playing, then I base it on whatever the other healer is. Scholar/Nocturnal Astrologian?! I go Diurnal. White Mage/Diurnal Astrologian?! I go Nocturnal. I couldn't care less and I'll pick one or the other myself only if the other Astrologian doesn't seem to be particularly interested in making the first move himself. Though I do usually pick Nocturnal...I came from a Scholar after all, and I do like being able to cast shields before the big hits...
All in all, ask the question as to why "everyone wants to go Diurnal" to yourself. Why do YOU want to go Diurnal so much that being unable to (cause you are reasonable enough to not force a two-Diurnal situation) you are getting infuriated?! That's going to be a similar answer as to what those you ask in general would bring. -
12-13-2017, 08:21 PMKakikoUhm, I don't recall ever saying I only want to go Diurnal? Would you be so kind as to show me where I said that? Otherwise, please don't put words into my mouth; it's rude. I go with what's needed. If I see my co-AST has chosen Diurnal first, then I go Noct. If I'm with a scholar, I go Diurnal. If I'm with a WHM, I go Noct. Did you miss the part where I said "I've also been in raids as DPS with a WHM and an AST as heals and I've seen ASTs refuse to go into Noct"? Yea, that means that's totally me wanting to go into Diurnal!Quote:
Originally Posted by kikix12
I'm saying that from what I've seen in 24 and 8 man content the default setting seems to be an AST comes in and without even checking to see who/what their co-heal is, pop into Diurnal and some of them have refused to switch. If I'm going as AST in something I take the time to check and see who my co-heal is, and if it's an AST who has yet to choose a Sect, I reach out in party chat and ask them which one they want to take. Shocking, right? And here I am, according to you "infuriated" that they've chosen Diurnal because apparently I want to be in Diurnal? I don't care what I'm in.
Also, I said it was frustrating, not "infuriating." Two entirely different things. I'm not "infuriated" that someone chooses Diurnal; I'm frustrated when they seem to think it's the default setting and then 100% refuse to change. -
12-13-2017, 08:35 PMArriusI rather say the good players stick to their static or close circle of acquaintances/friends that they can rely on for clearing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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12-13-2017, 08:42 PMkikix12...You're telling me to not put words in my mouth and then go do exactly that, huh...I'll return the favor..."Would you be so kind as to show me where I said (...)" that you only want Diurnal? I am most certainly implying that is the case, yes, but at the same time, your post is doing the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
You see, what I did hear is focus on why you are frustrated (yes, I mixed the word frustrated with infuriated, but they are two degrees of the same emotion, so they are nowhere near as far apart as you seem to think). There is zero reason that I can think of as to why you would ever be bothered by others going Diurnal "by default", unless you'd want to do that and can't yourself. I literally asked you as to the reason why that frustrates you...
The part about being a DPS and seeing others go Diurnal with White Mage is another thing entirely. As a DPS, you have little reason to care what healers do, so long as they do their job. That White Mage could be frustrated by that, but why would you? You died cause of that?! Yes, then blame the Astrologian for not utilizing his toolking properly. No?! Then you have no reason to care. I very rarely have been in parties with the same healer type (power-heal or shield-heal) in the past. I have all three healers at lvl70 and used all of em in 8-man content at least. And I'll tell you this. As pointless as it seems, it may actually be somewhat reasonable for both healers to have regeneration or both healers to have shields. If for no other reason, then because one of them may not actually make use of these tools, and some battles are easier when you prevent damage while others are easier when you react to them.
Ultimately, stick to your job unless there's a problem. And if it involves your job (when you are Astrologian)...then again. I will repeat the question. Why does it make you frustrated that other Astrologian "defaults" to Diurnal? -
12-13-2017, 08:42 PMTaika
I have 100% same experience with this fight. I recently posted this in Tales from Duty Finder thread:
I admit from the start I'm not the best healer there is right now, since I'm currently BRD main, but I have mained it from Coil to Alexander and have healed OS1-OS3 and all previous Extremes, and know how to plan my ability use. I can handle my own part, but I'm not good enough to carry another healer through when they just. don't. heal. (or don't heal at correct times and refuse to apply shields). I hate saying at level 70 things like "you should use Medica II sometimes!" or "you should apply shield before the huge AoE hit!"... I've pretty much decided not to do this fight anymore without a healer partner I know and just farm OS4 weapons instead, that's probably easier anyways...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taika
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12-13-2017, 08:47 PMViolaCrossfire
As a healer I hate healing on shinryu. O3S is easier for me. It's not because I have done it less. It's because most of these mechanics are frustraring to heal. The first earth breath for example. If the same dps/healer also gets targeted by akh rhai (50% of the time) you have to identify it in less than a gcd and heal them so they don't die to ice storm. All while a tank is getting mauled and you need to watch for your own akh rhai. Piss poor design if you ask me.
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12-13-2017, 08:54 PMEstelle9livesTo be fair, Shin Ex is perfectly healable with less than 8k effective HPS (both healers combined) throughout the fight. It's less about hard numbers and more about how each healer is applying their toolkit that makes a huge difference. The AST could be healing for 7k and things would still be clutch if they were never using mitigation when the situation called for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taika
Not criticizing your play or anything btw (as it was likely the AST's fault if they weren't mitigating), just a little observation about HPS. -
12-13-2017, 08:56 PMTaikaYeah I believe that, but this was practice, and there were a lot of mistakes and unoptimal tank play to be covered. :) I'm sure there's a lot of valid critisism to be placed on my healer play too though! You're right though, it's not that much about HPS, it's about using correct heals and abilities at correct times that was the trouble. It was just frustrating for me because I felt like I was literally doing all I could in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelle9lives
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12-13-2017, 09:00 PMKakikoI'm really not sure why you're unable to understand what I'm posting; I'll try to make it a little more clear for you: I do not care if I'm in Diurnal or Nocturnal. I go into whichever sect is needed. Is that a bit clearer? Should I say it again? I. Do. Not. Care. If. I. Am. In. Diurnal. Or. Nocturnal.Quote:
Originally Posted by kikix12
You did ask me the reason and I believe I very clearly stated the reason, which apparently you can't quite seem to grasp? The reason it frustrates me, and I'll try to be as clear as possible for you, is when the AST refuses to go into anything but Diurnal.. That maybe wasn't as clear. Let me try again: If you, as an AST, refuse to ever go into anything except Diurnal, you frustrate me. Not because I specifically only want to be in Diurnal, but because you're not working with your co-healer and you're not strengthening your party at all.
I'm really not sure how I can make it more clear to you that it's not because I only want to be in Diurnal, because (again) I do not. I (again) go in to whichever sect is needed/required/makes the party stronger.
Really? "Stick to your job"? So, you mean to tell me that you never in the history of existing have ever questioned the choice of another player unless they were the same job as you? Not once. Not ever ever ever? You've never questioned why that person did that, or didn't do that, unless they happened to have the same icon as you in the party list? Puh-lease. Don't give me that. "Stick to your job"? I'm not sure you could be any more condescending. I don't think it's up to you to tell me what I have a reason to care about and what I don't. Maybe the tables could be turned: you don't have a reason to care about what I'm saying, so don't?Quote:
Originally Posted by kikix12
And again, I'll repeat it, because apparently you can't quite grasp the concept:
I do not care which sect I am in. It makes me frustrated when an AST refuses to choose anything but Diurnal, especially when doing so would help the party as a whole.
But yes, please do keep telling me that I'm frustrated because I want to only be in Diurnal. I'm 110% done trying to make things clear. We'll have to agree to disagree here. -
12-13-2017, 09:32 PMpopotaro
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12-14-2017, 12:13 AMLadyKairiI share your feelings. As an Astro, you need to be flexible. There is no "oh yeah I'm -insert sect- main aha! Oh you want me to swap? Shove off m8 >.>". It's especially frustrating when an ast goes noct with a sch co heals. I could see where dual regens COULD be useful, but noct with a whm is just the better option. The astros who refuse to use the proper sect for the situation are just bad players imo. You need to learn how to use its full kit, not just a portion of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
I did shin ex on my rdm yesterday to get some practice before I go in to heal it (I don't wanna be bad). The whm and Astro seemed to have had a hard time. I kept an eye on them both after dying to unavoidable damage over and over. I was driven nuts from my pet peeves. They kept wasting their ES and over healing, weren't shielding, they were really really slow. The whm seemed to not be doing anything but using medica and medica 2. Their HPS was really low (bout half of the ast tho ast was over healing severely), and their DPS was low for how low their healing was, so it just seemed like they weren't doing much. I wasn't a healer, but you bet I noticed their mistakes. I ended up leaving because the healers just couldn't handle it. Think I'll stick to healing after that experience... -
12-14-2017, 12:41 AMPaladinleeds
When I play AST, I have a preference for NoctSect (Through ARR and HW I mained SCH, it's a learned behaviour to think about shields over regens). BUT, if the other healer is a SCH, I'll go DiSect, if the other healer is a NoctAst, I'll go DiSect. It's a preference, but I will happily be flexible about it. Because by being flexible, I can adapt to the situation, which I find more important.
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12-14-2017, 12:44 AMAvatreI'm the opposite, I prefer Diurnal so that I can give the whole party the regen while I can continue to dish out DPS. I understand the allure, and use, of the shields, but I personally like to have that constant ticker of HP for the bigger pulls, and during bosses, so that I don't have to stay on top of the tanks HP as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
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12-14-2017, 01:34 AMMaloraYukiIf I go diu or noct it depends on the content, some content I prefer Regen heals some content I prefer shield heals. Large pulls I tent to prefer shield heals, seems easier to get through the high damage, especially with a tank who doesn’t use CDs. But with 8 man groups it depends on the other healer for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
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12-14-2017, 01:40 AMMeridaQ
o.o I think I am going to go heal Raba now. *walks towards the bright light of impending doom*
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12-14-2017, 03:28 AMElazulHPGot you coveredQuote:
Originally Posted by popotaro
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...66/053/409.gif -
12-14-2017, 09:45 AMCakekizyyYou smell what Michael is cooking?Quote:
Originally Posted by popotaro
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12-14-2017, 10:04 AMSaberlinkThe situation is vary depend on what are you doing. Some much more prefer in dungeon go for Noct sect because most of the time only tank will be hit (Unless we got DPS who like to take damage [MNK grease Lightning & SAM Shield counter]). Using shield could give AST chance to DPS until the shield is broken, recast it in instant. For Diurnal, it really suitable in boss fight because most of the time whole party got damage, regen will be helpful to top up party member HP and healer could concentrate on healing the tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloraYuki
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12-14-2017, 10:18 AMMaloraYukiYeah I get that in dungeons I tend to go noct for trash and diu for bosses. I seem to be able to push out more dps that way if that makes sense? Or it’s just what feels more comfortable for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberlink
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12-14-2017, 10:52 AMAcaciaTyrannia
I actually wondered the same thing, so I rerolled healer.
Solved my problem. You should consider it too. Sitting around pouting their are no good healers makes you part of the problem, not the solution. -
12-14-2017, 12:16 PMCanopiaconsidering he is dead, I dont think that its his cooking he is smelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakekizyy
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12-14-2017, 12:44 PMCakekizyyHe borrowed Hildy's perfume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canopia
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12-14-2017, 12:50 PMZarabethYou (your character) are amazingly adorable and I wish you were on Leviathan so I could hug you!Quote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
Oh and as to the topic at hand, some people are just not amazing at their jobs. It happens, move on. -
12-14-2017, 01:45 PMMeridaQDaww lalas always need more hugs. ❤️Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarabeth
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12-15-2017, 01:51 AMmiraidensetsu
As a White Mage, I can say that while Triple regens (Regen + Medica II + Aspected Benefic on Diurnal Sect) can top off a tank in no time, I feel that the run is easier when that AST is on noct, since my regens are powerful enough to keep the party on and noct has that shields that makes my life easier. Specially if he's shielding the tank before a tank buster.
If an AST go noct and uses their shields, it's auto-comm from me. -
12-15-2017, 02:41 AMSendohJinDo they lose it if they never use cards?Quote:
Originally Posted by miraidensetsu
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12-15-2017, 03:18 AMJijifliRather a no card AST over a few cases I had in a double AST comp in DF where my Expand Balance is replaced with Expand spire because the player either has no idea what cards did or is trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
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12-15-2017, 12:41 PMbitterish
I guess the reason why people prefer diurnal rather than nocturnal is that you need to know/pay attention to the incoming mechanics to mitigate...which I guess a lot of people does not prefer to? But as AST main I prefer going with Nocturnal cause I find it more enjoyable mitigating between playing yu gi oh cards and dps-ing while the rest is up to Earthly Star (why do most of AST forget that earthly star exists anyway? that skill is the love of my life) and few occasional helios since my WHM partner can prolly cover the rest with a flick of a hand. Moreover, because in my server SCH tends to never shield so I'm really grateful whenever I'm partnered with a WHM. Whenever I go diurnal, I just know that I'm going to work extra hard to cover the mitigation-less party, that's how bad SCH players are in my server, though some are hella jaw-dropping awesome, most of em are just meh.
Plus, I'm playing on the Japanese server, so communication is hardly an option. -
12-15-2017, 01:28 PMYabbi
Reminds me of the time I was still new to healing and got Susano normal on a trial roulette. Never knew AST shields overwrites SCH's. Only noticed it right when the party vote abandoned... I don't like healing in trials, but I felt so bad that now I always make sure to change sects based on my co-healer.