Can we have some sort of Wolves Den personal dps meter?

Like a PVP Stone Sea Sky in the WD area, or a straight dummy with a personal DPS meter, there's no way for a lot of people atm to compare damage numbers amongst all jobs in pvp.

I mean it tells you your total damage dealt at the end as well as the time you end at, so if you really wanted to find out your DPS you could just do some maths.

It's unlikely we'll ever see personal DPS meters in any content on FF though.

I'm not so sure it would be as useful for PvP, though I've seen a lot of people pull significantly low damage numbers, as shown at the end of matches. But damage in PvP is still generally about bursts at the right time more than standard rotations. You've also got to factor in mitigation and cc skills, as well as skills that perhaps lower an opponent's damage as well.

It's not a bad idea, but just as easily, learn your job's burst rotation and how to manage/stay active in between burst windows, and you should have no issues at all. :)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I'm not so sure it would be as useful for PvP, though I've seen a lot of people pull significantly low damage numbers, as shown at the end of matches. But damage in PvP is still generally about bursts at the right time more than standard rotations. You've also got to factor in mitigation and cc skills, as well as skills that perhaps lower an opponent's damage as well.

It's not a bad idea, but just as easily, learn your job's burst rotation and how to manage/stay active in between burst windows, and you should have no issues at all. :)

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This.

As something like a BLM you're going to be CC'd and focused to hell so you're going to spend a lot of time running away from melee and tossing out sleeps.

What's important is burst. If you do low damage overall but time your attacks to secure kills, you've done a better job at helping your team win then just throwing out raw numbers.

Perhaps such a PvP damage tool could challenge you to do X amount of damage within a small Y timeframe. That'll teach you how to perform burst on your job.

You'll have to get creative at times, too though. For instance, as a BLM, sleep the healer and immediately drop cometeor on their head. If it connects swiftcast into Foul. Find things like that that your job can do and time them to secure kills rather than focusing on DPS.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I'm not so sure it would be as useful for PvP, though I've seen a lot of people pull significantly low damage numbers, as shown at the end of matches. But damage in PvP is still generally about bursts at the right time more than standard rotations. You've also got to factor in mitigation and cc skills, as well as skills that perhaps lower an opponent's damage as well.

It's not a bad idea, but just as easily, learn your job's burst rotation and how to manage/stay active in between burst windows, and you should have no issues at all. :)

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Let me say first that I'm diamond...and that I went over most jobs and their toolkits. I currently main DRK, and sometimes I play smn or brd.
From your words, it almost feels like I'm claiming a DPS meter in wolves den would be a make or break thing. I'm totally not saying that... just that it would be a nice bonus for players to know their sustained and burst numbers.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

This.

As something like a BLM you're going to be CC'd and focused to hell so you're going to spend a lot of time running away from melee and tossing out sleeps.

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Yeah, and as a bard, for example, you'll be uninterrupted for like 99% of the fight...
I'm aware of the things that make you win a match. There are shields, heals, cc, focus handling, limit breaks, adrenaline rushes, the wolf's heart. All those things play an important role when winning a match. Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus. You handle mechanics and stop dpsing in PVE too no? And yet we have sss.

I'm not disagreeing with your idea, I'm simply saying damage isn't always relative to your efficacy in a battle.

Someone once tried to use that against me, citing a Diamond player (Feast rank isn't much of a meter of ability, honestly) playing BRD - a job they don't normally play - vs my MCH, back in 3.x PvP. Though their numbers were very close to mine, I was the one with 10 kills to their 0. Sure, as a personal measure ofwhat you do/how well you do it, it might be nice, but the overall total is shown at the end of matches, as has been stated.

As a possible extreme, the last thing I'd want is a teammate taking an unnecessary risk in a close match simply out of trying to push their numbers. But again, that's an extreme case, though all too possible.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus.

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If you give players a tool to rank themselves they will do it with the data they get. At the moment you can already see the DMG dealt after every match or frontline session, as it doesnt matter at all in PvP if you managed to pull out high numbers in 8minutes, it is already a bad start to begin with. Players who deal damage in culling time, on people with medal stacks, on people who are not shielded, will deal more unmitigated damage. If there are many dead players in your match you already have more downtime. If enemy team has a good healer, he will mitigate way more and vice versa needs way less healing to keep people alive.(less healing doesnt mean = bad healer)


Damage is calculated different from PvE, you can tell exactly by the potency of the skill how much damage it will deal, which makes it very easy to tell how much output you could potentially do.

The only information we can derive from these damage numbers are if the players are able to press 1-2-3 repeatedly over 8 min if they manage to get over ~ 100k damage. If not then they are most likely afk or not trying or died 10 times. Everything other is really very depended on the course of the match.

In PvP the player can decide how he intents to kill and wipe the enemy team, if the player prefers a fast/burst style or a slow pressure/cc style, this is different to PvE and a reason why we don't need SSS, in PvE you only want as much damage as possible while handling mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Yeah, and as a bard, for example, you'll be uninterrupted for like 99% of the fight...
I'm aware of the things that make you win a match. There are shields, heals, cc, focus handling, limit breaks, adrenaline rushes, the wolf's heart. All those things play an important role when winning a match. Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus. You handle mechanics and stop dpsing in PVE too no? And yet we have sss.

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Fair points. I support the idea - it would only serve to help people.

If you're looking for a tool to personally see what your job is capable of, there are things like Advanced Combat Tracker + wolve's den dummies that will give you the information you want, just maybe not as helpful in gauging burst.

The total numbers every match may (or not) give you a hint as to why you lost or won, but a striking dps dummy with a meter in WD would serve another purpose. A diamond player isn't necessarily very good, but getting this far sure gives them experience and a bit of understanding of the pvp. Saying a diamond rank means nothing you know well isn't true...any diamond player knows the game is about bursts and CC, and knows the importance of the wolf's heart, but let me tell you something, applying constant high damage pressure on a target sure helps, if you hit like a wet noodle for 95% of the fight and your bursts fail to kill anyone for whatever reason you are just as bad.

I know BLM must have a higher sustained than say brd for example, but I'm curious as to what this damage difference is, I don't see a single valid reason as to why players in pvp shouldn't be allowed to compare their numbers now that pvp and pve skills are no longer the same.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I'm simply saying damage isn't always relative to your efficacy in a battle.

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Totally agree with this, but at the same time I don't see the above statement as a valid reason for not having some sort of damage meter in the wolves den area.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Fair points. I support the idea - it would only serve to help people.

If you're looking for a tool to personally see what your job is capable of, there are things like Advanced Combat Tracker + wolve's den dummies that will give you the information you want, just maybe not as helpful in gauging burst.

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As a PS4 player, I can't do that...

Ts, put up a dummy that keeps healing itself rapidly - If you manage to burst it down, you've passed, you get 3 minutes to try >_>

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

If you give players a tool to rank themselves they will do it with the data they get. At the moment you can already see the DMG dealt after every match or frontline session, as it doesnt matter at all in PvP if you managed to pull out high numbers in 8minutes, it is already a bad start to begin with. Players who deal damage in culling time, on people with medal stacks, on people who are not shielded, will deal more unmitigated damage. If there are many dead players in your match you already have more downtime. If enemy team has a good healer, he will mitigate way more and vice versa needs way less healing to keep people alive.(less healing doesnt mean = bad healer)


Damage is calculated different from PvE, you can tell exactly by the potency of the skill how much damage it will deal, which makes it very easy to tell how much output you could potentially do.

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You talk as if there weren't a million variables in pve, you have people dying there, weaknesses, mechanics either locking you or preventing you from dps properly, inflated aoe dps with adds, a million buffs, different team comps that give you more single target dps, and an endless etc. In fact, there are A LOT more variables in pve than in pvp, yet we have SSS right? By your logic, SSS is pointless because it doesn't take into account all the above variables. Guess what? I've spent dozens of hours in SSS practising stuff and comparing numbers, and I'm grateful SE added this. A parser isn't the beginning and end of everything, but it can help you understand in what order you should presss your buttons in order to maximize your damage, regardless we are talking about simple or more complex rotations.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

The only information we can derive from these damage numbers are if the players are able to press 1-2-3 repeatedly over 8 min if they manage to get over ~ 100k damage. If not then they are most likely afk or not trying or died 10 times. Everything other is really very depended on the course of the match.

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By this logic all DPS players do the same damage unless they are afk. Clearly NOT the case.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Let me say first that I'm diamond...

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diamond in s5 = silver/bronze s1-4.
DPS meter is useless in pvp as the game is all about how good you are with bursting and coordinating with the other dps, different times i got a certain mnk doing 140k dps in 8m, but 3-4 kills while me 250k dps and if lucky 1 kill.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

A diamond player isn't necessarily very good, but getting this far sure gives them experience and a bit of understanding of the pvp. Saying a diamond rank means nothing you know well isn't true...any diamond player knows the game is about bursts and CC, and knows the importance of the wolf's heart, but let me tell you something, applying constant high damage pressure on a target

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Diamond/top100 means nothing since season 5 most ppl would be season 1 bronze/silver (including u from what Ive seen ingame). Dont think just because u got a rank it makes u a good player especially in s5 I saw u play and there were such big mistakes from u. Your arguments wont have more weight than others especially compared to other ppl posting here who are well known players. Hard to break it to u but ranks/tiers mean atm n o t h i n g. There is not a single point which would make a dps meter in pvp useful.

It's like banging my head on a wall...

I know monk has an insane burst, I know bursts are the ones that very often kill people.

But tell me Head Hunters, what else, as a SMN, other than having the enemy heal on focus target and unleashing your burst when you see the stun/silence icon pop on their health bars? So you do what...? Burn your Deathflare a few seconds before? Or save your aetherflow stacks while Bahamut is out to Use Akh morn + ED + Fester? You can only do as much when bursting people down (especially as a ranged dps), and many times it doesn't work. Not everything is about burst. High split damage and constant pressure works many times too for example.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

diamond in s5 = silver/bronze s1-4.

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You've just called yourself bronze...?

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

Diamond/top100 means nothing since season 5 most ppl would be season 1 bronze/silver (including u from what Ive seen ingame).

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Empty words, assume as much as you want. Truth is I was not bronze or silver on other seasons because I did not even play one PVP game up until S5. Just thought every person in this board would assume any dia player (even more mediocre ones) would have the "the game is around bursts and CC" well learnt.
Of course I make mistakes, I've been learning pvp throughout this S5 as I was a new into all this. But after hundreds of games played, and after a lot of tries trying a lot of jobs and trying to figure out which what job I contribute more, I chose DRK as my main. And I still try to improve.
Out of curiosity but what sort of stuff do I make that'd make me a bronze player on other seasons? Because I see myself in every game averaging 200k+, keeping TBN with a 100% uptime (to anyone who is lower than 80-60% hp), saving double bloodspiller when I see somebody on roughly 40% hp, chasing the healer like a madman with sprint and CC chaining them whenever the focus target is low or for example getting lbed, I spam the wolf's heart macro 3 or 4 times 10 seconds before the wolf's heart pops up which is at 4:00, I save double Bloodspiller for the wolf's heart too, I save my LB for crucial culling time phases (especially near the ending of the match which is where many times games are decided). I go all aggro on the enemy when we are behind (mainly nagging their healer) and I completely turtle if we are ahead (permanently on their DPS while I stun them and ummend their caster if they have one). What is it that I should be doing that I don't do?

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It's like banging my head on a wall...




You've just called yourself bronze...?

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Atleast he played pvp in 3.x and knows how meaningless ranks are right now. I literally see u ingame on heal 24/7 throwing random cc and rarely tbn nice "diamond" makes it obvious that it means nothing. Also high split dmg isnt that "high" in sb pvp it rarely gets anywhere especially with a good tank.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Out of curiosity but what sort of stuff do I make that'd make me a bronze player on other seasons?

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Literally everything your switches, that u are on heal most of the time, your cc timing etc. I even rewatched a game against u to check what u do so yeah. I didnt called u s1 bronze I said if u played in s1 you would be bronze there is a difference you just started so its hard to understand for u but pvp used to be alot better (more depth, higher skill ceiling, more rating gain/loss, more skills) etc. now it's just meh so rankings dont have any real value most of the time.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

Literally everything your switches, that u are on heal most of the time, your cc timing etc. I even rewatched a game against u to check what u do so yeah. I didnt called u s1 bronze I said if u played in s1 you would be bronze there is a difference you just started so its hard to understand for u but pvp used to be alot better (more depth, higher skill ceiling, more rating gain/loss, more skills) etc. now it's just meh so rankings dont have any real value most of the time.

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I'm on the healer most of the time, unless they have a BLM, because it's very often the most efficient way to have their melee killed, it's basically the "off stance mode". If they have a monk, what I do is bait their RoF, stun them, unmend them, mess up their burst, and then go straight to the healer. As for this:

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

rarely tbn

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Good job lying. I even have 4 macros of TBN each one to each member of my party so that I don't have to interrupt my pressure on my target. I literally, and I mean literally keep TBN whenever it's up to anything lower than 80% (most times it's the melee unless the ranged or heal have 1 vulne). Like, I'd swear to god I'm the biggest TBN spammer in the entire top 100. So talk about straight up lying.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

You've just called yourself bronze...?

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no cause i stopped at gold rank on s1-3 and plat s4 due to irl. Focus enemy heal is an example? because i never focus healer (exept dots) if i dont see the melee hard switch on it because it would be useless. And for me it works, i have an almost 90% wr with melees like gabriel, yato, biggs etc cause i can guess the time when they go for healer ;)

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

no cause i stopped at gold rank on s1-3 and plat s4 due to irl. Focus enemy heal is an example? because i never focus healer (exept dots) if i dont see the melee hard switch on it because it would be useless. And for me it works, i have an almost 90% wr with melees like gabriel, yato, biggs etc cause i can guess the time when they go for healer ;)

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When I play as a DPS I put the focus target on the healer so that I can keep track of the silences and stuns so that I can time my bursts accordingly, I was referring to that I don't tend to go after the healer either.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Good job lying. I even have 4 macros of TBN each one to each member of my party . Like, I'd swear to god I'm the biggest TBN spammer in the entire top 100. So talk about straight up lying.

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But u only need 3 macros since you dont have to macro for urself :thinking: but okay if u dont want to learn lol

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

But u only need 3 macros since you dont have to macro for urself :thinking: but okay if u dont want to learn lol

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Yep, true. But you know what? For every TBN I apply on myself I apply 50 to my melee, 20 to my healer and 10 to my ranged, so hardly matters (could change my <1> TBN macro for the skill itself but meh). The only instance where I spam TBN on myself is when the game is say 1 minute from ending, I try to kite as much as possible with sprint with TBN spam and stuns on their melee with Grit on. That happens like 1 out of 20 games though, the only instance where I pick medals that put me with 4+ vulnes is when nobody else does (for whatever reason...) and need those medals because we are behind (and I only do that if game is almost ending, personally, I find it easier to make a comeback under normal circumstances than expecting not to get killed with 4+ vulnes when there are still 2 mins and 30 seconds left).

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Yep, true

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It's okay keep up your 220k dmg on drk while losing easy farm for me whenever I q. You focus to much on dmg you literally do 200+ k dmg while not killing anything in a whole 8min game meanwhile enemy dps and tank have way less dmg and dominate.Like I said if u dont want to learn or advice ok or tell me I lie but I stream and can rewatch lol.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

It's okay keep up your 220k dmg on drk while losing easy farm for me whenever I q. You focus to much on dmg you literally do 200+ k dmg while not killing anything in a whole 8min game meanwhile enemy dps and tank have way less dmg and dominate.Like I said if u dont want to learn or advice ok or tell me I lie but I stream and can rewatch lol.

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Doing 220k damage doesn't exclude me from fulfilling my other duties such as CC or TBN. Or you think 130k Drks don't do 200k because they are busy with TBN?
At this point I can't help but think you've decided to turn this discussion into a war (judging by your "you'd be bronze/silver by how you play" makes me think you wanted this from the very beginning).

The point of this thread was a dps meter in the wolves den for the fresh PVP rotations. It's something that would cost almost no resources, something extremely easy to implement, and would be a bonus. I said I was diamond when the first answer I got was from someone who said "game is all about bursts and CC", which any diamond player I believe knows that, my point wasn't that I'm a super good player or anything, just that I knew something as elemental as that. But a couple of you jumped on me like hungry wolves with remarks such as "being dia doesn't mean you are good, in fact you are bad" or "dia in S5= bronze in other seasons".

Anyhow, pvp rotations are indeed easy, and the dummy wouldn't only serve the purpose of learning to performing them properly (because they are pretty simple), but we'd all (PS4 players too) know what damage difference there is amongst all the classes. A PLD hits way less than a DRK, but how much less? Or a WAR supossedly hits harder than a DRK, but by how much? There'd be a few interesting stuff to test. Testing this sort of stuff doesn't mean getting obsessed with numbers or not acknowledging there are a lot of other variables that decide which team wins/loses.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

You talk as if there weren't a million variables in pve, you have people dying there, weaknesses, mechanics either locking you or preventing you from dps properly, inflated aoe dps with adds, a million buffs, different team comps that give you more single target dps, and an endless etc.

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In PvE you want the highest dps output over a long time. In PvP you don't. If you can't accept that, we will never agree on something.

Even PvE parser software is not something I like personally, as you stated out there are many variables which are going to have an effect on your total dps. The fflogs website tried to minimize unfair advantages like waiting for a big mob group before killing the boss, or destroying all 3 traps at susano eventhough only 1 is the objective and needed. But in the end it is not a tool to know if somebody is overly skilled or not, sadly often members of speedkill groups fail to adjust to other groups tactics and are wasting a lot of time in the process, because they are simply 2 greedy. With the right group you get fast clear times and that is step 1 in getting a high dps anyway, even if you perform bad.
People started to using parser as a helpful tool because they wanted to know what killed them or what type of damage physical/magical certain attacks had, but of course some people wanted to compare themselves and so the whole ranking bs began. It is fine to an extent but not so reliable as many wish it to be.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

By your logic, SSS is pointless because it doesn't take into account all the above variables.

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The system of SSS is since the A9S-A12S raidtier poorly implemented. The reasons are just obvious, you can beat the fights without managing to clear the dummy. The dummy requires way more uptime and optimization to your rotation than the actual fight.
I am not saying that is pointless to do SSS, it can help you test out rotations and see if you get better with it if you are on a playstation and don't have access to third party software.


A dps meter would not be a sufficient tool to judge people, atm you have to get a feeling for it to determine if a dps class performed poorly or good, like you said it is not something with just 1 variable. But adding something like this would make a lot of players believe it would be just 1 variable.

I don't fully agree with that, I've already said I agree game is mostly about bursts and CC, but keeping high damage pressure is important too, and I completely disagree about that damage pressure being 1,2,3 like you claimed before, there's a bit more to it than 1,2,3. You hit like a wet noodle for 90% of the fight and fail your well timed bursts and you are just as bad because a healer doesn't run out of MP by healing one burst every minute.

As for your posts... let me ask you something... you don't seem to be a big fan of SSS or fflogs in the first place. I know fflogs can have a lot of biased numbers (and can generate some elitism), but don't you think its pros outshined its cons?

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Anyhow, pvp rotations are indeed easy, and the dummy wouldn't only serve the purpose of learning to performing them properly (because they are pretty simple), but we'd all (PS4 players too) know what damage difference there is amongst all the classes. A PLD hits way less than a DRK, but how much less? Or a WAR supossedly hits harder than a DRK, but by how much?

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Thing is, burst of the classes have been dumped down so strictly that there is not much variation anymore how the burst develops. Most classes have their 6-10s window where the burst happens, taking more than 20s to calculate the burst wouldn't be so useful for comparison of bursts I guess. That means you have like 7-15 GCD in that burst window, with no autoattacks, criticals, direct hits, evades,mitigation or whatever. If you really want to know you can just take your calculator and add these 7-15 GCD + offglobals together and you have the different burst outputs.

Putting SSS for PvP would mean putting dummy for 30 second parsings in there. It is not useful enough to invest dev time when you can get the information so easily anyway.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Gallus

As for your posts... let me ask you something... you don't seem to be a big fan of SSS or fflogs in the first place. I know fflogs can have a lot of biased numbers (and can generate some elitism), but don't you think its pros outshined its cons?

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If more people would use the fullscale possibilities of fflogs then yes the pros would outshine, but this community rather develops into a percentile contest fight for casual content and this is something I would avoid...

Sheesh the OP is simply asking for a PvP version of a PvE tool already implemented in the game. It's only 9 buttons but having something that can help players hone their sustained PvP damage and ideally also have mechanics to help them hone their burst isn't going to do anything but help someone. Higher tier players already are using other resources and maximizing what each job is capable of - it would be another step to help new players get their PvP feet wet or for any player really that can't or doesn't want to rely on third party tools. After all the OP is only looking for something that can help them improve.

Insulting the OP's PvP skills as an argument against their idea is just a straw man argument and has nothing to do with whether or not it has merit.

But no, I guess it's too much fun to tell other players "figure it out and git gud". Elitism at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

but having something that can help players hone their sustained PvP damage

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But why teach them to improve that, you don't want sustained damage. If a newbie wants to get into PvP he will think he has to do it like that and nothing will get killed.

We would need something like novice arena for PvP explaining all the stuff a bit more in detail, before you can enter ranked modes.

I don't want tools at the basic level that lead already in the wrong direction.

It's worth noting that despite widespread use, third party tools like parsers aren't entirely okay to use. Yes, but no. And as far as PvP goes, it's particularly frowned upon, due to the potential for use for callouts and notifications of say, skills used or match related items.

I know this isn't what anyone was suggesting at all, but even beyond that it simply raises the question of why it's necessary at all? Call me old fashioned, but experience IS the best teacher. Learn to do it right, learn to do it well, and the numbers will be there, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

But why teach them to improve that, you don't want sustained damage. If a newbie wants to get into PvP he will think he has to do it like that and nothing will get killed.

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I think your biggest mistake is claiming you can't do a good sustained while properly timing your bursts. One thing has nothing to do with another. I haven't met a single person that was pissed because for instance they were able to kill the susano EX dummy on time yet failed to handle the real susano EX mechanics... people regardless they are beginners or experts are aware that the dummy tests their numbers, nothing else...by your logic we wouldn't have SSS, because it doesn't test everything it takes to clear fights... and that place is very often utilized by a lot of people testing different sort of rotations, imo it hasn't done anything but help the playerbase with zero downsides. Your approach is unnecessarily overprotective towards the beginner playerbase and extremely unfair towards more advanced players. I'm sorry I'm insisting this much... I just have a hard time understanding why some of you are so reluctant to add something so innocuous yet helpful (to a certain extent? Yes, but helpful).

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

due to the potential for use for callouts and notifications of say, skills used or match related items.

I know this isn't what anyone was suggesting at all, but even beyond that it simply raises the question of why it's necessary at all? Call me old fashioned, but experience IS the best teacher. Learn to do it right, learn to do it well, and the numbers will be there, no doubt.

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We are talking about a personal DPS meter... much like SSS. You don't find any sort of harassment in the SSS dummies, it doesn't make any sense.

As I said there are multiple variables when winning a game. Experience is an important factor, such as other things. This dummy would just be another tool.


Well I hope this is considered as it wouldn't hurt anyone... those thinking it's unnecessary would always have the choice to ignore it... and those like me curious about the dps difference between certain tanks or dps could finally test their stuff. SE could even implement it in a way where you could properly learn in which order you have to press your buttons so that your burst is higher in less time.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I'd swear to god I'm the biggest TBN spammer in the entire top 100.

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This is one of the reason why you will not be considered a "diamond player"

This is still going? OP has no clue and can't deal with being proven wrong by everyone basically those who agreed with OP are randoms that don't even pvp.

There is no reason for a a tool that tracks sustained damage also ppl would think they are good cause of sustained damage. Anyway you also think high damage as tank doesn't exclude doing ur job. If u use low dmg skills like stun or hold bloodspiller to time cc/follow up you won't get past 200k except culling stacks. You have a good idea of how much dmg u do and "pressure" is not just damage alone it involves positioning etc. having alot of uptime can be very bad too. Your arguments got invalid as soon as you said stuff like staying on heal like literally 7mins is good etc.it also proved how irrelevant the ranking is since stormblood came out since most top100 now don't even know the basics.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberu

This is still going? OP has no clue and can't deal with being proven wrong by everyone basically those who agreed with OP are randoms that don't even pvp.

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There is more to PvP than just Feast. Frontlines is a thing, and honing sustained damage is important for killing PvE objectives. What's wrong with giving players a tool to try out different rotations and see what does the most damage? Or try different scenarios to get burst out depending on what cooldowns they have available?

I'm not some random who doesn't PvP - I've put 800-900 Frontlines games in the last month and a half, and of the feast I've been able to do, I have somewhere around a 65% win rate in training matches over about 80 games. Once I get the Frontlines titles I'm after, I'm coming after Feast - I'll be seeing you there shortly.

We've already covered the fact that damage numbers alone don't tell the tale properly. Yes, perhaps it can help in determining a more effective burst rotation, but that's already entirely possible on a dummy, or through duels. Practical experience. Not numbers in a vacuum.

Damage to PvE objectives - and let's not be coy - ice is circumvented by the ability to have it reset. I could let someone deal 99% of the damage it takes to break a small ice, then take them out, let it reset, then put in that last 1% and the ice is mine. All their damage amounts to 0, points wise.

I'm really not trying to say damage meters aren't good, but I am saying they're largely unnecessary for becoming better, especially in a form of content that isn't static.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

We've already covered the fact that damage numbers alone don't tell the tale properly. Yes, perhaps it can help in determining a more effective burst rotation, but that's already entirely possible on a dummy, or through duels. Practical experience. Not numbers in a vacuum.

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You're really not listening to Gallus's point. We have a the Stone, Sky, Sea calculator already in the game for PvE content. That is also pure damage in a vaccuum! You aren't dodging AoE or performing mechanics. To successfully complete an Extreme version of a Trial you need to go through many attempts and gain practical experience in the fight you are in. You don't just succeed in SSS and get handed gear. The same arguments you are making as to why a PvP SSS wouldn't be helpful can be made about the PvE version we already have.

Everything you are all saying is correct about what makes you successful in PvP - I said the same stuff on the first page. I'm taking the OP's side because it really doesn't make a difference to anyone who is already using dummies, ACT, duels, and good ol' fashioned experience through trial. But someone will benefit from it. Just because it's not you, doesn't make it a bad idea.

And it was pretty despicable the personal attacks levied against the OP, for absolutely no reason.

I'm personally disinterested in whatever personal thing was going on there. However, while I too am on PS4 - like the OP - I do feel it's largely unnecessary for the reasons people have already said.

If we have any semblance of how to play our respective jobs in PvP, we KNOW what works. As far as a PvP Stone, Sky, Sea? Duels. Training matches. Custom matches. We literally have everything in place we need for effective, LIVE training. Repurposing a striking dummy to give you numbers that will just about always be different and don't really match overall efficacy in a real competitive scenario really becomes a moot point.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Repurposing a striking dummy to give you numbers that will just about always be different and don't really match overall efficacy in a real competitive scenario really becomes a moot point.

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"Repurposing a striking dummy to give you numbers that will just about always be different and don't really match overall efficacy in a real Extreme Trial scenario becomes a moot point."

So delete PvE version of SSS then, and eviscerate someone asking for a PvP one?