A Thank You Letter To The Devs: Summoner

I wanted to say, Thank You, developers for changing Summoner the way you did. The overhaul on it's playstyle is just absolutely amazing now and all the hard feelings I had towards it are gone now.

But there's more to this letter than just thank you. I wanted to say thank you for listening to our feedback, taking it to heart, and making it a reality for us. You have quite literally given us almost everything we've asked for and that feels.. really great. For me, it makes me feel like making threads giving feedback actually matter. That they are actually read and taken seriously even though you guys may not respond directly. Makes me, and I'm sure many others, feel important and like their words actually mean something to you. That kind of thing makes me have more faith in you as Devs because you show you actually do care about what your players say. :)

I made a list of all the feedback we gave back in that time at 4.0 release. Many were stressed out from Summoner's performance! But we provided feedback nonetheless.

I also want to thank all the players who put in their support and feedback in the thread for the devs to see. You helped make SMN the way it is now!

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Ruin III needs to replace Ruin I. Seriously, every other job gets upgraded except SMN?

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Originally Posted by remiff

-Buff miasma III 40-->50
-Buff Bio III-->40-->50

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

2. Give Summoner a GCD AoE attack or something
With Bane being nerfed to death, Deathflare nerfed, Miasma II deleted, Aetherflows in the trance taken away, and Blizzard II taken away, SMN really has no hope of doing any AoE damage outside of one burst that'll take away all of your resources. Without stacks you can only cast DoTs on each enemy then Ruin. While other jobs get to spam AoE... if SMN could get an AoE like that it would help alot. A Painflare-like AoE

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Originally Posted by Mature

If they not gonna buff ruin III , might as well reduce their mp cost. The MP cost for ruin III its ludicrous for how much damage it makes.

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Originally Posted by Silkerin

• make ruin 3 replace ruin 1. *only change the mp cost for it, same potency*

• make it so tribind is actually useful by buffing its potency and reducing cast and cost.

• make devotion either a party wide buff

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

*Change Devotion to affect all party members.
*Add Sustain back.

Ruin:
*Lower MP cost of Ruin III.
*Change Ruin IV to instant cast.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

devotion be an aoe field around the pet, having it buff the whole party would be too op.

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Originally Posted by Everyone

Bring Sustain back!!!

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Combat-Changes

Let's also not forget the feedbacks from various other threads. Regarding Bahamut's size, reducing MP cost of pets, reducing the cast time of pets!

Thank you SE for listening to us. I am very, very happy with Summoner!! :D

Housing rage died down a bit I think... Bump!

Yea, thanks for fixing summoner.......NOW FIX DARK KNIGHT!

Its so much fun now, it feels good to run around spamming ruin in DWT :3

Now all we need is the aetherflow lockout removed and aethertrails/Dreadwyrm aether to stay after death and we're gold.

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

NOW FIX DARK KNIGHT!

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*Musters best Palpatine impression*

Dew It

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

Yea, thanks for fixing summoner.......NOW FIX DARK KNIGHT!

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Now now settle down just a bit :p.

Best way to go at it is to specify what you want fixed!

I love the changes made to SMN. It made me wanna play the class again after having given up and switching to BRD. Sure, Ruin III doesn't feel as powerful anymore but I'm fine with that if it means getting an upgrade from our boring Ruin spell we've had since level 1. The mobility has completely changed the class around for me. The extra mana I have now that I didn't before also makes Mana Shift a viable role action to use.

My only real critique now is fixing pet AI because reaction and cast times are still iffy on that end. That, and Bahamut following me around and not attacking can be an issue when moving around for mechanics.

But overall, now I'm torn between choosing SMN or BRD for my DPS runs so that's always a plus. :)

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Best way to go at it is to specify what you want fixed!

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Fair enough.

Basically DRK has no good damage mitigation (we have Rampart and Shadow Wall but both of them have pretty large cooldown timers) while WAR and especially PLD has much better mitigation despite WAR's supposed to be the high damage low defense tank class. Also Living Dead is a huge meme and is pretty useless...Im not very good at articulating my thoughts in writing

I loved Summoner in 4.0 and I love it even more now. The changes were fantastic and Sustain is back as well.

Even tested it. Before the patch I couldn't solo Pharos (Hard), couldn't even get past the Fighting Polygon Team boss. Now with Sustain, I can solo the entire dungeon without any worries.

I'll be doing PotD and all the dungeons/EX Primals I can now. So much stuff just opened up without having to resort to RDM.

I agree and am thankful that SMN has been partially fixed.

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

Fair enough.

Basically DRK has no good damage mitigation (we have Rampart and Shadow Wall but both of them have pretty large cooldown timers) while WAR and especially PLD has much better mitigation despite WAR's supposed to be the high damage low defense tank class. Also Living Dead is a huge meme and is pretty useless...Im not very good at articulating my thoughts in writing

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Maybe you could try making a thread on it? Could even look at the thread posted here as an example.

Take this as inspiration that things can be given to you if you ask for it

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

Yea, thanks for fixing summoner.......NOW FIX DARK KNIGHT!

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what's wrong with drk?

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

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learn to play drk, drk isn't about mitigating damage it's about sustaining their hp pool. they WANT TO be hit, its how blood price works which is their faster mp regen/ blood gage filler. most of the drk abilities bring back hp or magic. no need to drop tank stance as that gives your highest damage skill more pot. they made it so you don't get the damage fall off. if drk had any more mitigation, it would be op.

need to use rampart and the healing buff a lot use abysmal drain+ dark arts a lot quietes to get more mp back blood price to get mp back+ dark arts and use drk fell cleave.

living dead is an o shi button not meant for huge use. they switch what each tank does in sb.

as a main smn thanks. I like how sustain works with each pet.

garuda- lowest regen due to caster (as of my gear i get 2206 regen)

ifrit- medium regen due to being melee (2300+)

titan- large regen due to tank (3606)

i took titan out to kill a mob, lvl 70 mob in the locks all i did was dot it and use ruin 4 titan soloed it with sustain it barely hit 1/2 hp. it stayed around 70-80%

Wow, after reading this I think I will be leveling summoner some more sometime soon!

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

learn to play drk, drk isn't about mitigating damage it's about sustaining their hp pool. they WANT TO be hit, its how blood price works which is their faster mp regen/ blood gage filler. most of the drk abilities bring back hp or magic. no need to drop tank stance as that gives your highest damage skill more pot. they made it so you don't get the damage fall off. if drk had any more mitigation, it would be op.

need to use rampart and the healing buff a lot use abysmal drain+ dark arts a lot quietes to get more mp back blood price to get mp back+ dark arts and use drk fell cleave.

living dead is an o shi button not meant for huge use. they switch what each tank does in sb.

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The are so many thing wrong in this that I don't even know where to start

SMN does feel kind of better now, especially for AoE, but I still have too many stuff to look at during battle: Aetherflow gauge/status, Trance bar, Bahamut bar, recast for spell, recast for abilities, recast for pet abilities, my pet's HP and positioning, fight mechanics.
I like how it is a "busy" job, but there's just a tad bit too much going on for my tastes. There's still room for improvement, keep it coming SE.

Also give us the others primal Egis. They ARE important to the job.

We are heading in the right direction. Thanks to the team!

Dark Knigth needs Scourge back and not much more. Mitigation is not a problem. You can use The Blackest Nigth every 15 seconds if you want. It has the quickest defensive CD ever, making posible combine with he others CDs all the time. It has more mitigation than Warrior and is very close to Paladin.

Tried out SMN myself in the new dungeon last night (Skalla), and it feels pretty good now. Devotion change is A+, button consolidation via replacing Ruin with Ruin III and the mobility buffs under DWT are excellent, and a spammable AOE to make roulettes go faster is the tits.

Further suggestions: Ruin IV proc replace Ruin III button as well, having to watch the UI for procs kinda sucks. Demi-Bahamut really needs to be stationary, he has 100 range for god's sake he doesn't need to hug my butt constantly. Wyrmwave encouraging me to use Addle randomly doesn't feel good and it would be nice if Wave wasn't based on jamming as many actions as possible into Bahamut window, but instead just a set number of uses or something.

I'm indifferent on the "let us use Aetherflow moves under DWT" request, but if the devs were to change that I know it's make a lot of other SMNs happy.

Adding my support to the OP's comments. Summoner has been my main since I started the game a long time ago, and I have never abandoned it. It feels very rewarding now.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I'm indifferent on the "let us use Aetherflow moves under DWT" request, but if the devs were to change that I know it's make a lot of other SMNs happy.

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I think SMN is in an awesome spot right now in terms of gameplay! It just needs some extra little QoL fixes like pet responsiveness and it's golden.

I like changes. The buff to tri-bind is something I've wanted for a long time.

All I need now is for Trail and Flow stacks to be separate again so I can refresh Aetherflow before going into trance like 3.0

Really liking it.

I'd say Bahamut still needs some love. Otherwise the changes flow really well and I think they did a really good job of listening to our feedback.

Hopefully the rest of the forum won't run at us with pitchforks if we ask for one more thing and that's for Bahamut to stop following us like a hurt puppy! Aaaand maybe make W. Wave an auto attack because it just doesn't FEEL very good. :]

Edit: also please give aetherflow fat finger immunity i.e grey it out when trance is available. Do it in PvP too. Esp. PvP lol

I love the changes, it's just that they haven't fixed the rest of the (and more important) major problems which is Demi-Bahamut following you around, Wyrmwave making you use Addle and waiting for Aetherflow for maximum damage, and that the job is still punishing by accidentally pressing Aetherflow when you have Aethertrail Attunement, which discards the Aetherflow stacks and then how you can lose 2 of your Dreadwyrm Aether stacks on death which takes 2 or more minutes to achieve.
Personally I am fine with Dreadwyrm Trance locking Aetherflow abilities.

So far the changes are great, it feels better to play than before and my favorite one is probably Tri-Bind.
I hope more good changes come in the next patch.

I'm still not happy with it, but I'll put that aside to at least say these were a step in the right direction. I hope that this is only the first of what's to come, and that SE continues to fix their design and numbers going forward.

OMG 4.1 SUMMONER BEST SUMMONER

That DWT insta cast ruin 3
That 3s summon
That resize bahamut
That Ruin 4 insta cast
THAT RUIN 3 MP REDUCTION
omgomgomgomgomgomgomomgomgomgomg LOVE IT SO MUCH OMG

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I'm still not happy with it, but I'll put that aside to at least say these were a step in the right direction. I hope that this is only the first of what's to come, and that SE continues to fix their design and numbers going forward.

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Agree with Grimoire-M and Dinnertime's general sense that things are somewhat better but should not stop where they are now.

Imo smn is certainly not in the best place is ever been, (not at all...) and they still need to tweak the job to become even as enjoyable as it was before and useful dps wise.

Will keep it hung up for now but definately hope they continue to fix the job and add adjustments to make smn fun and still rewarding/useful again.

keep up the good changes SE!! :)

They listened, but it still needs work. Bahamuts AI and the Ruin 4 change to replace Ruin 2 to just name two that others have discussed. The changes are good step forward, but SMN still needs more fixed.

...These baby changes are all it took to bring out the "thank you letters"?

I'll thank them when the job (no pun intended) is done and done well.

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Originally Posted by Len

...These baby changes are all it took to bring out the "thank you letters"?

I'll thank them when the job (no pun intended) is done and done well.

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You completely missed the purpose of the thread.

Bahamut still needs better functionality. Please stop making Addle into a dps CD.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

You completely missed the purpose of the thread.

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I completely didn't.

I'm just not going to commend them for finally tending to the mess that is SMN when it was their lack of foresight that got us here. :(

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Originally Posted by Len

I completely didn't.

I'm just not going to commend them for finally tending to the mess that is SMN when it was their lack of foresight that got us here. :(

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The point wasn't simply that they fixed it. The point was that they directly listened to player feedback(Showing that they did read the thread) and made the changes in a timely manner.

Who's to say they simply couldn't fix Bahamut on this patch and will fix on 4.15 or 4.2? What matters is that they listened and did what they could.

I'm not saying SMN is 100%.. Never said that.

Thank you for listening to the feedback. I now have my Summoner back up and running again. The changes feel intuitive and well thought out. The buffs and movement feels more flexible to me. I liked the variability of smn to begin with, ever since ffxi. Variability in the class makes it feel more like smn to me. Adding more egi options and better pet AI over time will be where I think the class will end up and where it will shine.